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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 11:05:45 GMT
I understand that lots of unanswered questions have been left for potential DLC, but is there anything major to do after endgame aside from round out the codex or tie up unfinished quests? Several games have had hidden secrets that went undiscovered, for years even. Has anyone found any hints of this in Andromeda?
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Post by mofojokers on Apr 27, 2017 11:37:59 GMT
Besides movie night not really anything to do but start again on ng+1. Although it's not as fun to replay MEA as others games because of lack of replay value. Waiting for more patches before my third play and i just don't have the will still to want to go again.
Hoping that DLC resparks the wanting to play again. But most quests are not that great and exploring MEA planet by planet adds nothing different.
Although i highly recommend MEA MP super addictive like ME3 MP. Alot of stability issues and what not but it's seriously fun still to play.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 11:42:56 GMT
I've been on the MP somewhat. I've only two silver nameplates so far, and not much in the way of weapons yet. Not many stability issues on my end so far, not since the most recent patch anyways, but I have less than 24 hours MP time under my belt so I might just not have had enough exposure to experience the worst of them.
Just finished my second play through, but I powered through the main story and left most of the exploring for afterwords. Guess I'll just fill the codex and try to 100% everything till there's some DLC.
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Post by beantony on Apr 27, 2017 12:37:35 GMT
Besides movie night not really anything to do but start again on ng+1. Although it's not as fun to replay MEA as others games because of lack of replay value. Waiting for more patches before my third play and i just don't have the will still to want to go again. Hoping that DLC resparks the wanting to play again. But most quests are not that great and exploring MEA planet by planet adds nothing different. Although i highly recommend MEA MP super addictive like ME3 MP. Alot of stability issues and what not but it's seriously fun still to play. I wonder what makes ME1/ME2/ME3 has high replay value compared to ME:A? Aside from profiles issue in ME:A. I'm currently replaying NG+ as Sara in Insanity, and planning to take different course of actions. I want to be a righteous rebel, instead of My Scott's strict obedience to the AI directors, and take different decisions. So, there is actually a replay value story-wise. This currently doesn't pay off because there is no consequence yet for your choices.. maybe in future DLCs or sequels.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 27, 2017 12:51:33 GMT
Besides movie night not really anything to do but start again on ng+1. Although it's not as fun to replay MEA as others games because of lack of replay value. Waiting for more patches before my third play and i just don't have the will still to want to go again. Hoping that DLC resparks the wanting to play again. But most quests are not that great and exploring MEA planet by planet adds nothing different. Although i highly recommend MEA MP super addictive like ME3 MP. Alot of stability issues and what not but it's seriously fun still to play. I wonder what makes ME1/ME2/ME3 has high replay value compared to ME:A? Aside from profiles issue in ME:A. I'm currently replaying NG+ as Sara in Insanity, and planning to take different course of actions. I want to be a righteous rebel, instead of My Scott's strict obedience to the AI directors, and take different decisions. So, there is actually a replay value story-wise. This currently doesn't pay off because there is no consequence yet for your choices.. maybe in future DLCs or sequels. I had a similar problem with replay value with Andromeda that I did with the first game and it is all the travelling in the game. With Mass Effect 2 and 3 you were able to jump into the game and just stick with the action elements of the game and not spend time searching for objectives for quests and wandering around getting to them. You can change how you play to avoid elements of it, but there is still content that gets left behind. I replayed the first game a couple of times with the standard deviations such as achievement hunting, gender swap, personality swaps, while ignoring a lot of the open world questing. One thing to consider as well, It took me 130 hours to complete Andromeda the first time and I am about 30 hours into my NG+. Which is about half the time I spend in Mass Effect 2 for I could just speed through the game so I was able to complete the games multiple times compared to Andromeda. I think my fasted Mass Effect 1 game took less then four hours and I think there are speed runs around a hour.
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 12:53:17 GMT
Well in comparison ME1 had two more games following it for you to get the full effect of your choices. Im sure at the time ME1 had issues in this area, before sequels.
As far as replayability? I have no complaints, the game is MASSIVE with lots of codex to speculate on.
Thats half the fun, before the questions are answered and everyone bitches about THAT lol
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Post by NRieh on Apr 27, 2017 13:04:15 GMT
I can confirm that there are some letters and minor interactions which become available after your first landing on a random planet (not straight after you get back to your ship on Meridian). Could be a bug, but that's how it had been for me. After getting back to Tempest I had some dialogues, went to EOS and then had another update.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 27, 2017 14:22:19 GMT
No there is nothing "new" past Meridian, just the old side missions you ahve not finished yet, some are even disabled. So when you are done, you are done, wait for a DLC. And about the MP part... have to strongly disagree with mofojokersMEAMP is terrible, maybe because I did play ME3MP for 2 months before it became boring. MEAMP have nothing new, everything is the same like ME3MP, same old seven waves, same old objectives that are randomly put on the waves, whereas the first two waves are always survival. To top it off, BW did learn nothing from ME3MP. - it is still just about killing, who kills most mobs, gets rewarded the best (had a guy with black widow x in a bronze game, he ended up with 30.000 exp, everyone else with 5.000), the problem about this is... in ME3MP we had at least the various objectives, here? The few points you get for (ie) disabling a device are nothing compared to a kill, so, in ME3MP if you did not disable any device, there was no badge (thus bonus exp/money) for you, here... when the team disables, everyone gets the proper badge. Add to this the way how combat works in MEA, previously we would basicaly hunker down, eacherp laner securing one direction, and defend the position, now it is all about running around (depends on what you like more, it actualy does not matter), the problem: like everyone have his own map corner and is on his own, combos? Nah not going to happen that way, basicaly, the "coop" is gone. - still no customization for your "classes"... you are stuck with 3 preset active skills and they are fixed to a specific key, cant change that, cant change my armor, the face, nothing. And we have even less "skillpoints" then ME3MP... 6-6-6-6-6 wouldnt be in any way overpowered, instead we are stuck with 6-5-4-4-4. - the grind is even worse then ME3MP... each pack 6 cards, 4 are consumables, rest is mostly crap, you need a LOT of luck. After 1million credits spent, my best weapon is still an Equalizer I, no mods... but hey, I got a ton of shotguns I never use and a ton of shotgun mods. The rest is, more or less subjective, I do not like the layout of ANY firebase in MEAMP, and the enemies are less applealing then ME3 (Geth were better then Remnant, Reapers better then Kett... and Cerberus... better then Outcasts). Maybe it works better for someone who has not played ME3MP that much (and I didnt even play it THAT much). Truth said, if you want to go for 3d 4man coop pve game, try Warframe.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 27, 2017 14:37:46 GMT
Besides movie night not really anything to do but start again on ng+1. Although it's not as fun to replay MEA as others games because of lack of replay value. Waiting for more patches before my third play and i just don't have the will still to want to go again. Hoping that DLC resparks the wanting to play again. But most quests are not that great and exploring MEA planet by planet adds nothing different. Although i highly recommend MEA MP super addictive like ME3 MP. Alot of stability issues and what not but it's seriously fun still to play. I wonder what makes ME1/ME2/ME3 has high replay value compared to ME:A? Aside from profiles issue in ME:A. I'm currently replaying NG+ as Sara in Insanity, and planning to take different course of actions. I want to be a righteous rebel, instead of My Scott's strict obedience to the AI directors, and take different decisions. So, there is actually a replay value story-wise. This currently doesn't pay off because there is no consequence yet for your choices.. maybe in future DLCs or sequels. I gues you do not read much here on the forums. ME123: each dialogue option had a different outcome, not just a different answer MEA: each dialogue option you choose have slightly different answer, but not always, and always the same outcome and no, I am not talking about the few situations where you have to decide something (be it big or small) ME123: Shepard was fumbling in darkness with just vague information, like all the time, the insights of your two squadmates made you decide, and this insights were always different (albeit similar in nature) MEA: this "feature" is completely missing ME123: your squad had always something to say... about the NPC you just encountered, the situation, the mission, like everything MEA: this feature is limited to priority and loyalty missions And while there are few situations where your team says something (mostly Jaal offscreen) it is just so little, it is forgettable This pretty much increased the replaybility of ME1-3, each time you went out with a different squad and got something different out of it. This Nomad banter? Not comparable, drive around a planet for 30minutes and you got it all, hit a loadout station, change the team, and drive for 30minutes around to hear it all. So yes, you will have a different game if you decide to rescue the Angara and not destroy the exaltation facility, but that is something like deciding whether you rescue the Destiny Ascension or not. But... in MEOT you will have a different experience while talking to Sovereign, when you have Liara and Ashley with you, or when you have Talis and Garrus with you. Or, just another example, this "biotic god volus" in ME2, the cutscene and outcome is the same, but it is still different if you have Zaeed with you..
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Post by docklenator on Apr 27, 2017 14:48:10 GMT
I like warframe too.
I played ALOT of ME3MP. Can't say I ever really got bored with it. I'm highly competitive so I enjoyed trying to take 1st place as much as possible. Even when I moved on to other games I was always up for a round or two with the right people.
I'm also glad they didn't change much with the set up, and are adding new things as time goes on. The kicker is the combat, its solid and FUN so I don't really mind the grind, and if I don't steal all the points with my vanguard thats fine, exp is shared, its a pot that everyone contributes to, you just get to see who contributes the most. The better you play the more points everyone gets sure, but the better you help your team the more points everyone can contribute and thats even more EXP to share. Work as a team to get gold ratings on the obs and max out your credits.
Its not a perfect system, no, but I have alot of fun with it, to each their own.
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Post by beantony on Apr 27, 2017 15:07:43 GMT
I wonder what makes ME1/ME2/ME3 has high replay value compared to ME:A? Aside from profiles issue in ME:A. I'm currently replaying NG+ as Sara in Insanity, and planning to take different course of actions. I want to be a righteous rebel, instead of My Scott's strict obedience to the AI directors, and take different decisions. So, there is actually a replay value story-wise. This currently doesn't pay off because there is no consequence yet for your choices.. maybe in future DLCs or sequels. I gues you do not read much here on the forums. ME123: each dialogue option had a different outcome, not just a different answer MEA: each dialogue option you choose have slightly different answer, but not always, and always the same outcome and no, I am not talking about the few situations where you have to decide something (be it big or small) ME123: Shepard was fumbling in darkness with just vague information, like all the time, the insights of your two squadmates made you decide, and this insights were always different (albeit similar in nature) MEA: this "feature" is completely missing ME123: your squad had always something to say... about the NPC you just encountered, the situation, the mission, like everything MEA: this feature is limited to priority and loyalty missions And while there are few situations where your team says something (mostly Jaal offscreen) it is just so little, it is forgettable This pretty much increased the replaybility of ME1-3, each time you went out with a different squad and got something different out of it. This Nomad banter? Not comparable, drive around a planet for 30minutes and you got it all, hit a loadout station, change the team, and drive for 30minutes around to hear it all. So yes, you will have a different game if you decide to rescue the Angara and not destroy the exaltation facility, but that is something like deciding whether you rescue the Destiny Ascension or not. But... in MEOT you will have a different experience while talking to Sovereign, when you have Liara and Ashley with you, or when you have Talis and Garrus with you. Or, just another example, this "biotic god volus" in ME2, the cutscene and outcome is the same, but it is still different if you have Zaeed with you.. well, those sure were the plus points for ME:OT. I also played ME:OT, and also feel the same. ME:A was good, but ME:OT carried the story out so much better than ME:A, with attention to small things like you've mentioned in your post. But maybe we should give ME:A chances, with future patches, DLCs and hopefully a bettet sequel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 15:28:06 GMT
I wonder what makes ME1/ME2/ME3 has high replay value compared to ME:A? Aside from profiles issue in ME:A. I'm currently replaying NG+ as Sara in Insanity, and planning to take different course of actions. I want to be a righteous rebel, instead of My Scott's strict obedience to the AI directors, and take different decisions. So, there is actually a replay value story-wise. This currently doesn't pay off because there is no consequence yet for your choices.. maybe in future DLCs or sequels. I gues you do not read much here on the forums. ME123: each dialogue option had a different outcome, not just a different answerMEA: each dialogue option you choose have slightly different answer, but not always, and always the same outcome and no, I am not talking about the few situations where you have to decide something (be it big or small) ME123: Shepard was fumbling in darkness with just vague information, like all the time, the insights of your two squadmates made you decide, and this insights were always different (albeit similar in nature) MEA: this "feature" is completely missing ME123: your squad had always something to say... about the NPC you just encountered, the situation, the mission, like everythingMEA: this feature is limited to priority and loyalty missions And while there are few situations where your team says something (mostly Jaal offscreen) it is just so little, it is forgettable This pretty much increased the replaybility of ME1-3, each time you went out with a different squad and got something different out of it. This Nomad banter? Not comparable, drive around a planet for 30minutes and you got it all, hit a loadout station, change the team, and drive for 30minutes around to hear it all. So yes, you will have a different game if you decide to rescue the Angara and not destroy the exaltation facility, but that is something like deciding whether you rescue the Destiny Ascension or not. But... in MEOT you will have a different experience while talking to Sovereign, when you have Liara and Ashley with you, or when you have Talis and Garrus with you. Or, just another example, this "biotic god volus" in ME2, the cutscene and outcome is the same, but it is still different if you have Zaeed with you.. The first highlighted statement is blatantly false. In ME1, there were many dialogue choices you made that not only made no difference at all in the outcome but even resulted in the exact same line being said by Shepard. Several others resulted in only slight variations in the way Shepard said what was essentially the same thing. For example, in the medbay just after Eden Prime (ME1), you can choose to describe what Shep experienced as a dream, vision, or nightmare... but Shep says the same line regardless ("I saw... I don't know what it saw. Death. Destruction. Nothing's really clear...") He can choose to tell Anderson that he agrees with going to the council or tell him that he thinks it's a mistake or that the council will just think he's crazy. Although they do change what Anderson says a little bit, none of those responses makes any difference in how the story progresses. You still see the council and Anderson does not change anything about how things are presented to the council either. In fact, those lines don't even affect your paragon or renegade score at all... and I can cite many, many more examples. The second highlighted statement is also blatantly false... particularly in reference to ME1. Squad members only rarely commented on anything in ME1 and only in main story missions or the ME1 loyalty missions was there any decision making input (Dr. Saleon, Wrex's Family Armor, and Tali's data). Slaughter all the beseiged scientists or save them... squad says nothing either way. Take down Darius or negotiate with him... again squad says absolutely nothing. Let Helena Blake off the hook or kill her... nothing. Kill Wayne, allow Toombs to do it, or kill Toombs...nothing. Kill Father Kyle or don't... nothing. If Earthborn, shoot Finch in Chora's den or don't... nothing. Also, in ME1, there was absolutely no banter inside the mako. In ME2, the hammerhead said a few things and LotSB had some banter during the chase. ME3... no mako or hammerhead. There were comments that were directional in ME1... like "Cerberus has more bases on this planet." As for the quipping (like biotic god), I'm hearing different interactions between different squadmates on different missions in ME:A in different YouTube playthroughs. Given that few people have done multiple playthroughs yet, it's a little early to say that these shifts in dialogue don't occur in ME:A and the full extent of them.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 27, 2017 15:33:07 GMT
Well, this game is the first I know that has pre-ending post-ending content. At least I hear people cheering me from Meridian before I even went to hunt down the Archon. And here I thought they wanted to keep time travel out of Mass Effect.
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Post by Serza on Apr 27, 2017 15:39:20 GMT
Well, this game is the first I know that has pre-ending post-ending content. At least I hear people cheering me from Meridian before I even went to hunt down the Archon. And here I thought they wanted to keep time travel out of Mass Effect. For 100 percent viability?
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 27, 2017 15:58:25 GMT
Well, this game is the first I know that has pre-ending post-ending content. At least I hear people cheering me from Meridian before I even went to hunt down the Archon. And here I thought they wanted to keep time travel out of Mass Effect. For 100 percent viability? To quote Peebee: You know it. EDIT: It's a bug, obviously. Hopefully they'll fix it in the next patch, That was not only immersion breaking but also quite the spoiler (at the time, I had no idea what Meridian might be exactly, not to mention that people might one day be able to live there). I really worked on not being spoiled on the forum, only to have the game itself spoil me.
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Post by Serza on Apr 27, 2017 16:00:21 GMT
For 100 percent viability? To quote Peebee: You know it. Had that too, don't think they mention Meridian? Let me double check. When I 100 percent all the planets again. Crap. That's good forty hours of gameplay more.
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Post by Terminator Force on Apr 27, 2017 16:41:01 GMT
I gues you do not read much here on the forums. ME123: each dialogue option had a different outcome, not just a different answer MEA: each dialogue option you choose have slightly different answer, but not always, and always the same outcome and no, I am not talking about the few situations where you have to decide something (be it big or small) ME123: Shepard was fumbling in darkness with just vague information, like all the time, the insights of your two squadmates made you decide, and this insights were always different (albeit similar in nature) MEA: this "feature" is completely missing ME123: your squad had always something to say... about the NPC you just encountered, the situation, the mission, like everything MEA: this feature is limited to priority and loyalty missions And while there are few situations where your team says something (mostly Jaal offscreen) it is just so little, it is forgettable This pretty much increased the replaybility of ME1-3, each time you went out with a different squad and got something different out of it. This Nomad banter? Not comparable, drive around a planet for 30minutes and you got it all, hit a loadout station, change the team, and drive for 30minutes around to hear it all. So yes, you will have a different game if you decide to rescue the Angara and not destroy the exaltation facility, but that is something like deciding whether you rescue the Destiny Ascension or not. But... in MEOT you will have a different experience while talking to Sovereign, when you have Liara and Ashley with you, or when you have Talis and Garrus with you. Or, just another example, this "biotic god volus" in ME2, the cutscene and outcome is the same, but it is still different if you have Zaeed with you.. well, those sure were the plus points for ME:OT. I also played ME:OT, and also feel the same. ME:A was good, but ME:OT carried the story out so much better than ME:A, with attention to small things like you've mentioned in your post. But maybe we should give ME:A chances, with future patches, DLCs and hopefully a bettet sequel. BioWare games are getting worse, where is everyone getting this delusion that things could get better?
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Post by feuerrabe on Apr 27, 2017 16:58:12 GMT
I also started another game, but didn't follow through with it very far...
I really don't have a problem with the skill points. My original was primarily an infiltrator, but also had an engineer and a soldier profile. This time, even though I started with a New Game+ on Insanity (first game was Hard Core) I play her as pure biotic, and plan to replace the the other profiles at least with a vanguard and a scout profile. This way I will also reap the achievements for the varios specializations along the way.
My problem is that it just bores the hell out of me. Going through all the dialogues again, I try to play Sara more reserved, less emotional this time, but when it comes to the big choices I end up making the same choices as in the original game. My biggest problem is that I just don't like the face I picked for Sara this time. I really don't want to play that character but neither am I willing to start over and do all the crap I already did again. The combat situations are fine, but I really don't care about dialogues.
So, for now I just think I'll let it rest for a couple of months and then try again.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 27, 2017 17:07:29 GMT
I gues you do not read much here on the forums. ME123: each dialogue option had a different outcome, not just a different answerMEA: each dialogue option you choose have slightly different answer, but not always, and always the same outcome and no, I am not talking about the few situations where you have to decide something (be it big or small) The first highlighted statement is blatantly false. In ME1, there were many dialogue choices you made that not only made no difference at all in the outcome but even resulted in the exact same line being said by Shepard. Several others resulted in only slight variations in the way Shepard said what was essentially the same thing. For example, in the medbay just after Eden Prime (ME1), you can choose to describe what Shep experienced as a dream, vision, or nightmare... but Shep says the same line regardless ("I saw... I don't know what it saw. Death. Destruction. Nothing's really clear...") He can choose to tell Anderson that he agrees with going to the council or tell him that he thinks it's a mistake or that the council will just think he's crazy. Although they do change what Anderson says a little bit, none of those responses makes any difference in how the story progresses. You still see the council and Anderson does not change anything about how things are presented to the council either. In fact, those lines don't even affect your paragon or renegade score at all... and I can cite many, many more examples. This is true. However, in the first case, where even Shepard's like didn't change, I am not sure whether I prefer this to what ME:A did. At least, ME1 obviously tried to cut resources and get as much content out of the limited budged as possible, while I am not sure the four stances in ME:A were really worth it. And while the issue you mentioned is very very obvious in replays (and it is not great to be sure), I do respect the writers for what they pulled off there. Because I don't think it is easy to come up with dialogue that covers all the wheel option with one line without sounding completely wrong. And I thought in ME1, this worked pretty well. Basically, Shepard always says the same line but your wheel choice changes your (the players) interpretation of it. At least for the first playthrough, that worked well and since it clearly was a necessity of the budget at the time, I think it was a good call to get maximum player input on the character for minimum cost. The second part where Shepard's lines change and maybe the NPCs answer changes slightly but the story is not affected doesn't bother me at all. You cannot expect every dialogue choice to have vast consequences. That doesn't take away from the value to have the choices in the dialogue though. It's not really always about affecting the entire world. For me, it's really more about how much I can express myself (through Shepard) in the game. Even if my actions don't always change the course of history, I still want my action to reflect me (just like in the real world). In ME1/2/3, I could do this most of the time (even if Shepards lines didn't change or they had little impact, my choice on the wheel and the intent behind it amttered). In ME:A I basically wanted to say something that I couldn't in just about every third dialogue choice that I had in the game. This really amde Ryder feel like a pre-determined character much more than Shepard and if that's what Ryder is, why not just go Uncharted or Assassin's Creed, choose one of the 4 personalities for good and give it to Ryder. Save 75% of writing and voice work for each gender and use those resources on something else? At least in Dragon Age 2, Hawk's stances would very often affect the short term outcome or your relationship with an NPC or at least their answer, here it doesn't, so the dialogue choice are no more than a little gimmick to me at this point.
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Post by beantony on Apr 27, 2017 17:26:31 GMT
BioWare games are getting worse, where is everyone getting this delusion that things could get better? I still enjoy most of recent BW games, and I don't see anything wrong for hoping things to get better. Just because it's not what we've been expecting, doesn't mean the game is that bad, in my opinion.
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n7ltrobbiesann7
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by n7ltrobbiesann7 on Apr 27, 2017 17:38:44 GMT
Is there any point of visiting the hub worlds after meridian (ie tasks, environmental changes)
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Post by babe145869 on Apr 27, 2017 17:48:46 GMT
In ME1 there were consequences, that will effect the rest of the series. There were more in the following games that made a difference.
,I personally, like replaying the series cause the main story is stronger, the squad mates have reasons to join you and I find them more interesting than everyone except Jaal.
The Renigade/Paragon choices made it matter what you said/did. In ME:A you are basically saying the same thing regardless of the option you choose.
The power wheel made it possible to both have more active powers and control you squad mates. In ME:A it feels like the only reason to choose different squd mates combos is for the Nomad banter or the personal (loyalty) quests, since they seem nearly useless in most combat.
In ME1 there are some weather hazerds, but all you have warning you is a bar that fills. In ME:A SAM won't shut up making exploration more annoying.
We'll see if what you do/say in ME:A matters in future games.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 18:42:36 GMT
The first highlighted statement is blatantly false. In ME1, there were many dialogue choices you made that not only made no difference at all in the outcome but even resulted in the exact same line being said by Shepard. Several others resulted in only slight variations in the way Shepard said what was essentially the same thing. For example, in the medbay just after Eden Prime (ME1), you can choose to describe what Shep experienced as a dream, vision, or nightmare... but Shep says the same line regardless ("I saw... I don't know what it saw. Death. Destruction. Nothing's really clear...") He can choose to tell Anderson that he agrees with going to the council or tell him that he thinks it's a mistake or that the council will just think he's crazy. Although they do change what Anderson says a little bit, none of those responses makes any difference in how the story progresses. You still see the council and Anderson does not change anything about how things are presented to the council either. In fact, those lines don't even affect your paragon or renegade score at all... and I can cite many, many more examples. This is true. However, in the first case, where even Shepard's like didn't change, I am not sure whether I prefer this to what ME:A did. At least, ME1 obviously tried to cut resources and get as much content out of the limited budged as possible, while I am not sure the four stances in ME:A were really worth it. And while the issue you mentioned is very very obvious in replays (and it is not great to be sure), I do respect the writers for what they pulled off there. Because I don't think it is easy to come up with dialogue that covers all the wheel option with one line without sounding completely wrong. And I thought in ME1, this worked pretty well. Basically, Shepard always says the same line but your wheel choice changes your (the players) interpretation of it. At least for the first playthrough, that worked well and since it clearly was a necessity of the budget at the time, I think it was a good call to get maximum player input on the character for minimum cost. The second part where Shepard's lines change and maybe the NPCs answer changes slightly but the story is not affected doesn't bother me at all. You cannot expect every dialogue choice to have vast consequences. That doesn't take away from the value to have the choices in the dialogue though. It's not really always about affecting the entire world. For me, it's really more about how much I can express myself (through Shepard) in the game. Even if my actions don't always change the course of history, I still want my action to reflect me (just like in the real world). In ME1/2/3, I could do this most of the time (even if Shepards lines didn't change or they had little impact, my choice on the wheel and the intent behind it amttered). In ME:A I basically wanted to say something that I couldn't in just about every third dialogue choice that I had in the game. This really amde Ryder feel like a pre-determined character much more than Shepard and if that's what Ryder is, why not just go Uncharted or Assassin's Creed, choose one of the 4 personalities for good and give it to Ryder. Save 75% of writing and voice work for each gender and use those resources on something else? At least in Dragon Age 2, Hawk's stances would very often affect the short term outcome or your relationship with an NPC or at least their answer, here it doesn't, so the dialogue choice are no more than a little gimmick to me at this point. My issue is with the tendency of players to exaggerate the comparisons to the point that they become completely false and misleading statements... so, I was merely pointing out that the poster's statements in this case are actually false. In the first case, there were instances in ME1 where the line said did not ideally fit the situation in all cases. In some cases, the sense of the conversation depended a lot on what order you triggered the different queries in. I agree... it's not easy writing such things. As for the second...an example... did it really make you feel that Nihilus was responding differently (in a personality shaping way) because you either told him Anderson wanted to meet you or just asked him what he wanted to talk about? Personally, my reaction was "meh" wasted a choice and a line there... and that feeling was repeated many, many times throughout ME1. Such dialogues are, for the most part, what the auto-dialogue in ME3 replaced. Now for the ME:A system... I said way back when that it could result in less range in defining the PC's personality since the player simply doesn't have the dichotomy that paragon vs. renegade entailed. However, the players who complained for 5 years about how bi-polar and polarizing the paragon/renegade system worked can pretty blame themselves for that. P/R separated out the choices and put them on opposite ends of a scale more than casual vs. professional could ever do. ME:A differences in the PC characterizations just aren't ever going to be as obvious as the differences between a paragon Shep vs. a renegade one.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 27, 2017 18:44:54 GMT
The first highlighted statement is blatantly false. In ME1, there were many dialogue choices you made that not only made no difference at all in the outcome but even resulted in the exact same line being said by Shepard. Several others resulted in only slight variations in the way Shepard said what was essentially the same thing. For example, in the medbay just after Eden Prime (ME1), you can choose to describe what Shep experienced as a dream, vision, or nightmare... but Shep says the same line regardless ("I saw... I don't know what it saw. Death. Destruction. Nothing's really clear...") He can choose to tell Anderson that he agrees with going to the council or tell him that he thinks it's a mistake or that the council will just think he's crazy. Although they do change what Anderson says a little bit, none of those responses makes any difference in how the story progresses. You still see the council and Anderson does not change anything about how things are presented to the council either. In fact, those lines don't even affect your paragon or renegade score at all... and I can cite many, many more examples. The second highlighted statement is also blatantly false... particularly in reference to ME1. Squad members only rarely commented on anything in ME1 and only in main story missions or the ME1 loyalty missions was there any decision making input (Dr. Saleon, Wrex's Family Armor, and Tali's data). Slaughter all the beseiged scientists or save them... squad says nothing either way. Take down Darius or negotiate with him... again squad says absolutely nothing. Let Helena Blake off the hook or kill her... nothing. Kill Wayne, allow Toombs to do it, or kill Toombs...nothing. Kill Father Kyle or don't... nothing. If Earthborn, shoot Finch in Chora's den or don't... nothing. Also, in ME1, there was absolutely no banter inside the mako. In ME2, the hammerhead said a few things and LotSB had some banter during the chase. ME3... no mako or hammerhead. There were comments that were directional in ME1... like "Cerberus has more bases on this planet." As for the quipping (like biotic god), I'm hearing different interactions between different squadmates on different missions in ME:A in different YouTube playthroughs. Given that few people have done multiple playthroughs yet, it's a little early to say that these shifts in dialogue don't occur in ME:A and the full extent of them. I see, well you know, I was talking about ME1-3 and not just ME, ME was short on this, I know, but you know what, MEA is worse. And when you do a sequel, even when it is a "reboot", you do improve and add and not take away. BW wastly improved this conversation stuff from ME to ME2/ME3 and are back to worse then ME. And that is why this game can never ever be perfect and this is not some subjective matter. And since you are talking about ME, do not forget how ME conversation worked. You had to put points into charisma and intimidation, without it, you just got ~4 basic neutral options and not, the line delivered by Shepard was not the same, similar, but not the same and yes the NPC reaction was the same, but what do you expect when all is neutral?`Well, but IF you got the points, you could go paragon/renegade and then the line delivered by Shepard was like "much" different and so was the NPCs reaction. And yes it improved a lot from ME to ME2. Did this stuff affect the game in any way? No, and I am not talking about the major or minor decisions, just regular "side" conversations. You got a different "game" when paragon and a different game when renegade. Well, do we got a different game when emotional/logical/casual/profesional? Sorry but no. Like "sorry your dad died" -> "ok". "I have to inform you, during a mission your father died because of..." -> "ok"... ah well. Btw banter... low priority, anything interrupts it and it is just background. We got that in MEOT as well, not in such amount, that is true. And I am not saying it is bad or whatever, but the NOmad banter does not increase replayability, because it is always the same, and on a loop... be on a planet, do not even have to drive, and you get it all. While the mission comments... any mission did play somehow different when having Garrus and Tali as opposded to Liara and Ashley, even Garrus + Liara was different. Do we have this variety in MEA? No. I remember MEOT and its replayability because of this two things, you say it is wrong, well, I gues I played different games then, because thats what bugs me in MEA and why the replayability is low.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 27, 2017 19:06:52 GMT
My issue is with the tendency of players to exaggerate the comparisons to the point that they become completely false and misleading statements... so, I was merely pointing out that the poster's statements in this case are actually false. In the first case, there were instances in ME1 where the line said did not ideally fit the situation in all cases. In some cases, the sense of the conversation depended a lot on what order you triggered the different queries in. I agree... it's not easy writing such things. Fair enough. Funny, that Nihilus moment in particular I think was important. It gives you an early opportunity to think about what kind of Shepard you want to be in the stance towards aliens. If you talked to Preslay before, you already have the background on the turians and the first contact war. Now, you get to decide if Shepard is one to still resent them somewhat (and therefore be rather dismissive) or someone who engages into a conversation with the alien and is interested in other viewpoints. It's subtle but it's there and whenever I replay the game, I notice sthose situations where dialogue was very deliberately planted in the story to give the player the opportunity to shape not just Shepard but their own view of Shepard and refine what kind of character they head canon while playing. Because they couldn't have all actual lines in the game be different or have grand concequences for obvious reasons, they use these small moments to tease the players imagination and thus shape their interpretation of the more general lines alter. Maybe I am imagining this and give the writers too much credit and it's all coincidence (I have no proof either way) but after at least 15+ playthroughs of ME1 over the last 10 years I am pretty sure a lot of this was deliverate (and brilliant) design. As for the order of investigation options not always working, this is true in a few cases, definitely. No, I reject that. I was always for getting rid of the P/R system for Andromeda but I certainly never wanted this. I really didn't expect it either. I mean, say what you will about Inquisition but they did the dialogue wheel without a one-dimensional morality system already and they made it so that the Inquisitor could still say and do different things and express different opinions depending on the wheel choice. In that sense, ME:A is a massive step backward from what DA:I already did pretty well. And a DA:I like situation was what I wanted (and advertised in the old forums a lot). where the writers could use the wheel pretty much to their hearts contempt and put into it whatever they wanted, depending on what the situation required. You know, if it is reasonable that you could get pissed at a squad mate for something they just did or said (looking at you Liam) put that in the wheel somewhere, if it's just as feasible to make a joke about it, do that and so on. Sure, it would have required more diverse responses from the NPCs to what you said (as opposed to now where Ryder effectively always says the same thing so the NPCs only need one response to that) but then, rather make it 3 options again usually, instead of 4 or cut some of that (IMO rather useless) Nomad banter instead. I mean, I don't even want huge concequences here either, I just want to be able to express a feasibly fitting opinion with my character. I also don't expect them to hit exactly what I want to say every single time but the fact that basically every BW game before this one did a better job at this makes ME:A very disappointing to me in that aspect.
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