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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 19:10:14 GMT
The first highlighted statement is blatantly false. In ME1, there were many dialogue choices you made that not only made no difference at all in the outcome but even resulted in the exact same line being said by Shepard. Several others resulted in only slight variations in the way Shepard said what was essentially the same thing. For example, in the medbay just after Eden Prime (ME1), you can choose to describe what Shep experienced as a dream, vision, or nightmare... but Shep says the same line regardless ("I saw... I don't know what it saw. Death. Destruction. Nothing's really clear...") He can choose to tell Anderson that he agrees with going to the council or tell him that he thinks it's a mistake or that the council will just think he's crazy. Although they do change what Anderson says a little bit, none of those responses makes any difference in how the story progresses. You still see the council and Anderson does not change anything about how things are presented to the council either. In fact, those lines don't even affect your paragon or renegade score at all... and I can cite many, many more examples. The second highlighted statement is also blatantly false... particularly in reference to ME1. Squad members only rarely commented on anything in ME1 and only in main story missions or the ME1 loyalty missions was there any decision making input (Dr. Saleon, Wrex's Family Armor, and Tali's data). Slaughter all the beseiged scientists or save them... squad says nothing either way. Take down Darius or negotiate with him... again squad says absolutely nothing. Let Helena Blake off the hook or kill her... nothing. Kill Wayne, allow Toombs to do it, or kill Toombs...nothing. Kill Father Kyle or don't... nothing. If Earthborn, shoot Finch in Chora's den or don't... nothing. Also, in ME1, there was absolutely no banter inside the mako. In ME2, the hammerhead said a few things and LotSB had some banter during the chase. ME3... no mako or hammerhead. There were comments that were directional in ME1... like "Cerberus has more bases on this planet." As for the quipping (like biotic god), I'm hearing different interactions between different squadmates on different missions in ME:A in different YouTube playthroughs. Given that few people have done multiple playthroughs yet, it's a little early to say that these shifts in dialogue don't occur in ME:A and the full extent of them. I see, well you know, I was talking about ME1-3 and not just ME, ME was short on this, I know, but you know what, MEA is worse. And when you do a sequel, even when it is a "reboot", you do improve and add and not take away. BW wastly improved this conversation stuff from ME to ME2/ME3 and are back to worse then ME. And that is why this game can never ever be perfect and this is not some subjective matter. And since you are talking about ME, do not forget how ME conversation worked. You had to put points into charisma and intimidation, without it, you just got ~4 basic neutral options and not, the line delivered by Shepard was not the same, similar, but not the same and yes the NPC reaction was the same, but what do you expect when all is neutral?`Well, but IF you got the points, you could go paragon/renegade and then the line delivered by Shepard was like "much" different and so was the NPCs reaction. And yes it improved a lot from ME to ME2. Did this stuff affect the game in any way? No, and I am not talking about the major or minor decisions, just regular "side" conversations. You got a different "game" when paragon and a different game when renegade. Well, do we got a different game when emotional/logical/casual/profesional? Sorry but no. Like "sorry your dad died" -> "ok". "I have to inform you, during a mission your father died because of..." -> "ok"... ah well. Btw banter... low priority, anything interrupts it and it is just background. We got that in MEOT as well, not in such amount, that is true. And I am not saying it is bad or whatever, but the NOmad banter does not increase replayability, because it is always the same, and on a loop... be on a planet, do not even have to drive, and you get it all. While the mission comments... any mission did play somehow different when having Garrus and Tali as opposded to Liara and Ashley, even Garrus + Liara was different. Do we have this variety in MEA? No. I remember MEOT and its replayability because of this two things, you say it is wrong, well, I gues I played different games then, because thats what bugs me in MEA and why the replayability is low. Even in ME2, very few of the line choices awarded either paragon or renegade points... so their actual influence on the outcome of the game of minimal. Squad mate loyalty was either obtained or not obtained... which is what determined the endgame result for them... not whether or not you told Miranda she was foolish to trust Niket or not. Even a lot of those paragon or renegade interrupts weren't actually changing your paragon/renegade score. Also, very few of the P/R lines had high P/R checks... many of them were always offered regardless. Some key ones had very high checks and those usually made a big difference; but that's a long, long ways of the ALWAYS you implied. So, your initial statement is still false even with respect to ME2 and ME3. "Any mission did play somehow differently???" Tell me specifically how "Beseiged Base" played out differently when you brought different squad mates along or tell me specifically how the UNC Hostile Takeover series of three missions changed when you brought different squad mates on them... or tell me how bring Tali along on the 5 missions that eventually get the geth data for her change if you don't take her along... because I'm certainly not seeing any difference. In ME2, the loyalty missions and recruitment missions do change dialogue when you bring different squad mates along, but they are pretty close to being main story missions in ME2. The example of the volus is during Thane's recruitment mission; and while you don't have to do all recruitment missions, you do have to do more than 50% of them. Tell me, however, do any of the N7 missions change? Most of them don't have any dialogue, and it's those that are truly your side quests.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 19:21:46 GMT
My issue is with the tendency of players to exaggerate the comparisons to the point that they become completely false and misleading statements... so, I was merely pointing out that the poster's statements in this case are actually false. In the first case, there were instances in ME1 where the line said did not ideally fit the situation in all cases. In some cases, the sense of the conversation depended a lot on what order you triggered the different queries in. I agree... it's not easy writing such things. Fair enough. Funny, that Nihilus moment in particular I think was important. It gives you an early opportunity to think about what kind of Shepard you want to be in the stance towards aliens. If you talked to Preslay before, you already have the background on the turians and the first contact war. Now, you get to decide if Shepard is one to still resent them somewhat (and therefore be rather dismissive) or someone who engages into a conversation with the alien and is interested in other viewpoints. It's subtle but it's there and whenever I replay the game, I notice sthose situations where dialogue was very deliberately planted in the story to give the player the opportunity to shape not just Shepard but their own view of Shepard and refine what kind of character they head canon while playing. Because they couldn't have all actual lines in the game be different or have grand concequences for obvious reasons, they use these small moments to tease the players imagination and thus shape their interpretation of the more general lines alter. Maybe I am imagining this and give the writers too much credit and it's all coincidence (I have no proof either way) but after at least 15+ playthroughs of ME1 over the last 10 years I am pretty sure a lot of this was deliverate (and brilliant) design. As for the order of investigation options not always working, this is true in a few cases, definitely. No, I reject that. I was always for getting rid of the P/R system for Andromeda but I certainly never wanted this. I really didn't expect it either. I mean, say what you will about Inquisition but they did the dialogue wheel without a one-dimensional morality system already and they made it so that the Inquisitor could still say and do different things and express different opinions depending on the wheel choice. In that sense, ME:A is a massive step backward from what DA:I already did pretty well. And a DA:I like situation was what I wanted (and advertised in the old forums a lot). where the writers could use the wheel pretty much to their hearts contempt and put into it whatever they wanted, depending on what the situation required. You know, if it is reasonable that you could get pissed at a squad mate for something they just did or said (looking at you Liam) put that in the wheel somewhere, if it's just as feasible to make a joke about it, do that and so on. Sure, it would have required more diverse responses from the NPCs to what you said (as opposed to now where Ryder effectively always says the same thing so the NPCs only need one response to that) but then, rather make it 3 options again usually, instead of 4 or cut some of that (IMO rather useless) Nomad banter instead. I mean, I don't even want huge concequences here either, I just want to be able to express a feasibly fitting opinion with my character. I also don't expect them to hit exactly what I want to say every single time but the fact that basically every BW game before this one did a better job at this makes ME:A very disappointing to me in that aspect. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they bring P/R back... just saying that this one now is probably too subtle and P/R did have that benefit of sucking people into a good vs. evil mentality (which always sells in movies and games). I haven't played DA:I... actually planning to now since I've abandoned TW3 while still waiting for ME:A to be more patched. So, we'll see... maybe that's the one that "just right" after all. I don't blame Bioware for giving this new system a try though.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 27, 2017 19:34:59 GMT
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting they bring P/R back... just saying that this one now is probably too subtle and P/R did have that benefit of sucking people into a good vs. evil mentality (which always sells in movies and games). I haven't played DA:I... actually planning to now since I've abandoned TW3 while still waiting for ME:A to be more patched. So, we'll see... maybe that's the one that "just right" after all. I don't blame Bioware for giving this new system a try though. I really liked it. Basically, it has no set system. Additionally, it retains the companion approval system, which I thought was a good way to have some overall accumulating consequences to you pattern of behavior without the need to have particular consequences to each dialogue. I wouldn't mind if - sort of "behind the scenes" - they used an approval system in ME actually and over time, NPCs treat you differently according to your behavior. EDIT: Just re-reading the thread title, I realize that this has gone OT quite a bit. Apologies.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 27, 2017 22:35:59 GMT
The first highlighted statement is blatantly false.... I see, well you know, I was talking about ME1-3 and not just ME, ME was short on this, I know, but you know what, MEA is worse. And when you do a sequel, even when it is a "reboot", you do improve and add and not take away. BW wastly improved this conversation stuff from ME to ME2/ME3 and are back to worse then ME. And that is why this game can never ever be perfect and this is not some subjective matter. ME:A seems to be worse than ME3. It's better than ME1, and at least tied with ME2.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 27, 2017 22:48:33 GMT
I've been on the MP somewhat. I've only two silver nameplates so far, and not much in the way of weapons yet. Not many stability issues on my end so far, not since the most recent patch anyways, but I have less than 24 hours MP time under my belt so I might just not have had enough exposure to experience the worst of them. Just finished my second play through, but I powered through the main story and left most of the exploring for afterwords. Guess I'll just fill the codex and try to 100% everything till there's some DLC. I know what you mean. My OCD demands it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 22:48:42 GMT
ME:A seems to be worse than ME3. It's better than ME1, and at least tied with ME2. ME3 had arguably the worst conversation mechanics of the trilogy, though. I don't think Andromeda can be considered a step backwards in that regard, more like a sidewards step. Tone options were decenetly executed but fet largely inconsequential.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 28, 2017 21:28:37 GMT
@upupaway95
Since you seemingly do not understand what I mean, for which I do not blame you, I know I am not that good at explaining my exact thoughts. Here a vid, 5min mark. This was not the first time, but first realy big one, and definitely not the last.
I had to save before EVERY conversation in MEA because I had no idea if the words on wheel will match the lines delivered, if they match the situation and pretty much deliver what they promise. And I had to reload the save like every 5th conversation because I got exactly what I thought: realy big BS Never did this in ME ME2 or ME3, and I am not saying "such situations never were there".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 22:13:56 GMT
@upupaway95 Since you seemingly do not understand what I mean, for which I do not blame you, I know I am not that good at explaining my exact thoughts. Here a vid, 5min mark. This was not the first time, but first realy big one, and definitely not the last. I had to save before EVERY conversation in MEA because I had no idea if the words on wheel will match the lines delivered, if they match the situation and pretty much deliver what they promise. And I had to reload the save like every 5th conversation because I got exactly what I thought: realy big BS Never did this in ME ME2 or ME3, and I am not saying "such situations never were there". If you're reloading every 5 minutes just to change between two lines that are going to ultimately result in the same sort of outcome, you really have no one but yourself to blame for breaking you're immersion and not allowing yourself to have any fun playing this game. It was very evident from the two choices on the wheel that neither one was going to result in a fight and that, at that point it didn't really matter gamewise what Ryder said. I agree the line isn't the best... but this IS a game... not Shakespeare, not a great novel. It wasn't ME2's writing that made it a great game. It's full of dorky lines that some people love (I happen to think one of the dumbest Shepard lines is "How 'bout goodbye.")... and the lines not matching the prompts as been a common complaint... even in ME1. I still prefer prompts to full text because I don't play a game to read a book. So, I get that you just hate the game... so, go ahead hate it. I really just don't care.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 28, 2017 23:28:01 GMT
I just give it up, you are either extremely stupid or you troll me realy good. If the damn whell says "(emotional) I am sorry" and the line delivered is "You f.... up"... then f... the game and you talk shit if you do not understand this. Have a nice day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2017 0:22:43 GMT
I just give it up, you are either extremely stupid or you troll me realy good. If the damn whell says "(emotional) I am sorry" and the line delivered is "You f.... up"... then f... the game and you talk shit if you do not understand this. Have a nice day. Give up on what? Trying to convince to hate the game just as much as you do? Good then. I acknowledged that the particular line you cited wasn't that great. Dumb lines are nothing new to the Mass Effect Trilogy and lines that don't match their prompts are also something people have been complaining about with Mass Effect even in the first one. Some people want them to eliminate all the voice acting and go back to pop up boxes that show the player the exact text of every line the PC can "say" (but, of course, without VA's, the PC won't actually say anything). Personally, I don't like that sort of system. I prefer VA and am willing to overlook the lines that don't match the prompt. It's not a big deal for me and I don't reload every 5 minutes to correct responses that surprise me... unless I get a feeling there is a game critical decision involved. You can do what like. I'd actually recommend you avoid VA RPGs and go back to playing the older text-based ones.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 29, 2017 0:35:21 GMT
I just give it up, you are either extremely stupid or you troll me realy good. If the damn whell says "(emotional) I am sorry" and the line delivered is "You f.... up"... then f... the game and you talk shit if you do not understand this. Have a nice day.
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Post by setokaiba on Apr 29, 2017 0:40:13 GMT
I see, well you know, I was talking about ME1-3 and not just ME, ME was short on this, I know, but you know what, MEA is worse. And when you do a sequel, even when it is a "reboot", you do improve and add and not take away. BW wastly improved this conversation stuff from ME to ME2/ME3 and are back to worse then ME. And that is why this game can never ever be perfect and this is not some subjective matter. ME:A seems to be worse than ME3. It's better than ME1, and at least tied with ME2. I agree with this 100% it's not great but it at least on par with ME2. I was hoping it would be at least on the of level with Dragon Age tho.
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