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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 20:18:18 GMT
Sadly, I never really felt that Ryder was my Ryder. I felt a disconnect through the entirety of the game. I'm not sure if it was pacing, or the structure of dialogue between crew, or lack there of. Something just didn't allow full immersion. Hell, even the game knew it.. didn't even include me in movie night This happened to me. I did movie night after the last mission as a way to end the game, and it was like the game felt obligated to hit me with one last bug on the way out the door. Suvi was cuddling air, and I didn't even know what to say. I chose to do it after journey to meridian, but before the journey home. Kallo was cracking me up with his gallbladder, then it cut this this- Jaal with his arm around thin fucking air
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 28, 2017 20:18:57 GMT
Actually, for most of the newer BW games (definitely everything after DA: Origin) I never felt as if the player character is completely "my character". They are too cinematic for that. I feel more like a hybrid of a movie screen writer and director. This was already the case with Shepard, Hawke, the Inquisitor and now Ryder. While I can shape their personalities to a degree, they are definitely separate characters from me. That's not a complaint btw, I am completely fine with this. In fact, that's what RPG means for me. I don't want to play "my character", I want to play "a character" that is not me but has different traits. (That's also why I can enjoy e.g. the Witcher games, I just have to get into the mindset of playing that character and I'm good. I do the same in Skyrim, I don't imagine the character to be me or like me, I imagine a cool archetype that I want to play - be it a rough northman or a noble paladin - and then I make the character accordingly with little regard of how close it would be me in real life) Thing is, what I do have is a pretty clear vision of what I want this character to be like. One problem I had while playing Andromeda (more than with playing DA or the MET) was that the dialogue quite often didn't allow me to shape the character into the vision I had developed for it. That's not good but he problem was definitely not in identification with the character but rather that I couldn't quite develop that Protagonist into the direction that I wanted. But ok, since I am resigned to the fact that I do play some other character, as long as it's one that I more or less like, I can work with that, also in ME:A. Exactly. I would like to go back and flesh out my own character in this universe. In honor of Wrex, Grunt and Draxx, a Krogan. In honor of Mordin, Cpt. Kirrahee (HOLD THE LINE!): A salarian. Liara, Samara and (sigh...) Peebee (and freaky Morinth) all deserve an Asari. In honor of Garrus the Greatest Bro in the Entire Universe and (sigh...) Veetra, a Turian. Thane's got the Drells covered. Now that would be a character creator. More variety and let me take ownership of the character, while Bioware drives me through the narrative.
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Post by kino on Apr 28, 2017 20:26:02 GMT
On Eos. When I, the player, got to decide what the colony's mission was going to be. That was my investment point. The part of the story where I said to myself, "This is my story."
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 28, 2017 20:35:45 GMT
When my Ryder lied to Scott about Habitat 7 and their dad's death. It's exactly the same thing I would've done. It's even better in that subsequent dialogue when he's angry after waking up, I was able to use a dialogue option that directly addressed the reason why I chose that option in the first place. Notable mentions goes to first contact with the Kett troopers on Habitat 7, telling Addison she doesn't give a fuck what Tann thinks, keeping the space gerbil and punching Reyes in the gut to fake his being ill.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 28, 2017 20:36:28 GMT
Exactly. I would like to go back and flesh out my own character in this universe. In honor of Wrex, Grunt and Draxx, a Krogan. In honor of Mordin, Cpt. Kirrahee (HOLD THE LINE!): A salarian. Liara, Samara and (sigh...) Peebee (and freaky Morinth) all deserve an Asari. In honor of Garrus the Greatest Bro in the Entire Universe and (sigh...) Veetra, a Turian. Thane's got the Drells covered. Now that would be a character creator. More variety and let me take ownership of the character, while Bioware drives me through the narrative. Oh, I didn't even mean to suggest that I wanted aliens in the CC. I am fine with playing a human, when I was talking about options to shape the character, I was more thinking about what my character can say in dialogues and stuff. I mean, having the ability to play aliens would be nice in general principle but I can see a lot of technical difficulties that would come with that, so I do understand why they shied away from it so far.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 28, 2017 20:40:58 GMT
Exactly. I would like to go back and flesh out my own character in this universe. In honor of Wrex, Grunt and Draxx, a Krogan. In honor of Mordin, Cpt. Kirrahee (HOLD THE LINE!): A salarian. Liara, Samara and (sigh...) Peebee (and freaky Morinth) all deserve an Asari. In honor of Garrus the Greatest Bro in the Entire Universe and (sigh...) Veetra, a Turian. Thane's got the Drells covered. Now that would be a character creator. More variety and let me take ownership of the character, while Bioware drives me through the narrative. Oh, I didn't even mean to suggest that I wanted aliens in the CC. I am fine with playing a human, when I was talking about options to shape the character, I was more thinking about what my character can say in dialogues and stuff. I mean, having the ability to play aliens would be nice in general principle but I can see a lot of technical difficulties that would come with that, so I do understand why they shied away from it so far. I get what you're saying. It's hard to flesh out your character when you're restricted like this. I still make the case that Paragon/Renegade helped. You can include sarcasm, wisdom, etc. to keep the conversation going, but what is then intent behind it. It can be very off-putting.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 28, 2017 20:41:50 GMT
When my Ryder lied to Scott about Habitat 7 and their dad's death. It's exactly the same thing I would've done. It's even better in that subsequent dialogue when he's angry after waking up, I was able to use a dialogue option that directly addressed the reason why I chose that option in the first place. Notable mentions goes to first contact with the Kett troopers on Habitat 7, telling Addison she doesn't give a fuck what Tann thinks, keeping the space gerbil and punching Reyes in the gut to fake his being ill. All good examples
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 28, 2017 20:42:50 GMT
This happened to me. I did movie night after the last mission as a way to end the game, and it was like the game felt obligated to hit me with one last bug on the way out the door. Suvi was cuddling air, and I didn't even know what to say. I chose to do it after journey to meridian, but before the journey home. Kallo was cracking me up with his gallbladder, then it cut this this- Jaal with his arm around thin fucking air That's sorta funny but it will be patched in sure.
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Post by dm04 on Apr 28, 2017 20:43:54 GMT
Never felt Ryder to be "my" like Shepard, Shepard... from the very first moment. Ryder... the conversations were wrong, the combats felt wrong, I feel as if watching pupeteer with Ryder as the pupet and telling the pupeteer what to do and he does it, but not realy what I meant, since I can not give him full detail. It felt so disattached and distant. It became better when I equiped Ryder with the N7 armor (the combat). Shepard is N7, Ryder is alliance but nothing big done... and now, already on Eos, Ryder decimates whole platoons of enemies left and right ... And then it became a LOT better during Liams loyalty mission... When Ryder shoots the console because the pirate is mocking the team (interrupt). This casual shot to the side to shut this idiot down and then "Oh shit, what if I made him upset", thats when I first laughed and it was believable, I think for the first time in the whole game. But, sadly, it never became realy better. On a scale of 1-10, Ryder started at 1, became 5 during Liams mission, and now after the babyfaced Archon is dead, it is a 6, max.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 28, 2017 20:47:16 GMT
I'm not entirely sure when it happened. I do love how he's part smug, part flippant. Regardless, though, he gets the job done. If you can play Super Asshole Renegade Shepard and that's okay then there's nothing wrong with a Ryder who's actually nice.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 28, 2017 20:54:33 GMT
Oh, I didn't even mean to suggest that I wanted aliens in the CC. I am fine with playing a human, when I was talking about options to shape the character, I was more thinking about what my character can say in dialogues and stuff. I mean, having the ability to play aliens would be nice in general principle but I can see a lot of technical difficulties that would come with that, so I do understand why they shied away from it so far. I get what you're saying. It's hard to flesh out your character when you're restricted like this. I still make the case that Paragon/Renegade helped. You can include sarcasm, wisdom, etc. to keep the conversation going, but what is then intent behind it. It can be very off-putting. Yes, though I don't want the P/R system back either. I just want the writers to use the wheel freely, without restricting themselves to a system like this. It serves little purpose as far as I can see. just give us appropriate options for the dialogue we are in right now. I mean, sure, they can keep that general trend of having the nicer options on top and the ruder option on the bottom but P/R seemed too restrictive for some situations that needed more nuance in some places and was redundant in others. Just like the tone system in ME:A seemed to not really do much other than just changing Ryders line slightly. I've had a discussion with UpupAway about this yesterday and for myself, I think that DA:I did pretty well with the more situation dependent options that didn't really follow a "system" too much.
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Post by caridounette on Apr 28, 2017 21:04:28 GMT
Well this thread pinpointed I couldnt put words on it. I realized there are multiples moments that I felt Ryder was mine and others where really how 'a Ryder would be played'. Usually, this does not happen to me. I get to that threshold, get invested, and stay invested... (even if it took some time in ME2 because working for Cerberus, once Im past the no return in my head I greatly appreciate the game).
But Ryder really had me in and out. Maybe because of the lengthy MMOstyle questing periods, or that I cant react to some situations properly? Even with multiple playthroughs (started, not finished yet) there are always something points where I get pushed out of character so I suspect its not that a tone would be better then an other.
The thing is, I also suspect Im not touched by the writing like I used to. I always felt something with huge monologues like 'Hold the Line' but not many characters are inspireing in MEA, even my dad (I which I had a chance to make him proud/disappoint him before he gets taken out). Exploration is fine as a motivation, the first time around or maybe for a few hours on each planet for each characters. Then it drags.
The main quest sections are what gets me invested in the Ryder im playing (not saying its best story ever, jsut that it usually works for me).
But I also cant play a Ryder who willfully turns down a demand for help. So to be in character, I cant avoid the grind. Which takes me out of character. See where that gets me... ?
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Post by NRieh on Apr 28, 2017 21:09:02 GMT
A common bug for a romancing character, yeah. From what I know, femRyder goes full stealth while maleRyder glitches over the "whatever is the character sitting in the middle". In my case, Liam was holding the sofa.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2017 21:37:21 GMT
I've never considered any voiced, fully animated, cinematic character to be truly "mine". I will say that Ryder comes a lot closer than post ME1 Shepard ever did, because MEA gives me (Ryder) much more latitude in choosing which content to pursue when than ME2 & ME3 ever did.
That said, I find Ryder very engaging and a lot of fun.
ETA: One thing I particularly enjoy about Ryder is that she's relatively independent. She works with various leadership, but has no direct superior. Shepard had a slew of bosses - Hackett, Anderson, Udina, maybe the Council & TIM depending on how you view them.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 28, 2017 23:53:20 GMT
Arriving at Skyhold was the point in the game where I thought it was finally going to come together, pick up the pace, and feel like a real Bioware game.
Turns out that was the high watermark for me.
I think Voeld exaltation facility is where I started to genuinely like Ryder. There were some really great dialogue choices and it was the first time they started taking charge rather than just reacting to the situation they found themselves. Ryder is about to fuck your shit up.
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Post by kino on Apr 29, 2017 0:03:51 GMT
A common bug for a romancing character, yeah. From what I know, femRyder goes full stealth while maleRyder glitches over the "whatever is the character sitting in the middle". In my case, Liam was holding the sofa. You know, in my first play through I decided on a "girl in every port" scenario. Keri on the Nexus, Avela Kjar on Aya, just to see how that worked out. So on Movie Night there was no LI involved and everything looked great. My 2nd play through was PeeBee and I was dreading Movie Night because of what I've heard, yet it still went great with no glitches. I honestly feel bad for those it glitches out on, because it's a decent scene in the game, but I'm not sure why it triggers a glitch for some and not others. I'd hate to be the programmer at BioWare trying to fix this.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 29, 2017 1:05:46 GMT
Arriving at Skyhold was the point in the game where I thought it was finally going to come together, pick up the pace, and feel like a real Bioware game. Turns out that was the high watermark for me. I think Voeld exaltation facility is where I started to genuinely like Ryder. There were some really great dialogue choices and it was the first time they started taking charge rather than just reacting to the situation they found themselves. Ryder is about to fuck your shit up. same here. Though Act 2 of DA I was still plenty strong.
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Post by warrior on Apr 29, 2017 1:09:39 GMT
Narrative Action when rescuing Moshae.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 29, 2017 1:10:22 GMT
A common bug for a romancing character, yeah. From what I know, femRyder goes full stealth while maleRyder glitches over the "whatever is the character sitting in the middle". In my case, Liam was holding the sofa. You know, in my first play through I decided on a "girl in every port" scenario. Keri on the Nexus, Avela Kjar on Aya, just to see how that worked out. So on Movie Night there was no LI involved and everything looked great. My 2nd play through was PeeBee and I was dreading Movie Night because of what I've heard, yet it still went great with no glitches. I honestly feel bad for those it glitches out on, because it's a decent scene in the game, but I'm not sure why it triggers a glitch for some and not others. I'd hate to be the programmer at BioWare trying to fix this. From what I understand, this glitch is femRyder specific.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Apr 29, 2017 1:18:46 GMT
After Aya, I had some real problems how first contact was made. It's too casual, but... I became invested. I'm not struggling to adapt to male Ryder anymore. After Aya, I was able to claim ownership of Ryder. I wonder where all of you made that leap, where your Ryder became your Ryder. It took me a while to become the Inquisitor, but once I was holding that sword, I was the Inquisitor (Cue NWA's Straight Outta Compton). Unfortunately, no. At no point in the game was I ever drawn to the Ryder char. I spent the early part of it befuddled / annoyed and the later part in limbo because I didn't care about the char and the rest any more.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 29, 2017 1:20:10 GMT
After Aya, I had some real problems how first contact was made. It's too casual, but... I became invested. I'm not struggling to adapt to male Ryder anymore. After Aya, I was able to claim ownership of Ryder. I wonder where all of you made that leap, where your Ryder became your Ryder. It took me a while to become the Inquisitor, but once I was holding that sword, I was the Inquisitor (Cue NWA's Straight Outta Compton). Unfortunately, no. At no point in the game was I ever drawn to the Ryder char. I spent the early part of it befuddled / annoyed and the later part in limbo because I didn't care about the char and the rest any more. Just as valid!
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Apr 29, 2017 1:21:12 GMT
You know, in my first play through I decided on a "girl in every port" scenario. Keri on the Nexus, Avela Kjar on Aya, just to see how that worked out. So on Movie Night there was no LI involved and everything looked great. My 2nd play through was PeeBee and I was dreading Movie Night because of what I've heard, yet it still went great with no glitches. I honestly feel bad for those it glitches out on, because it's a decent scene in the game, but I'm not sure why it triggers a glitch for some and not others. I'd hate to be the programmer at BioWare trying to fix this. From what I understand, this glitch is femRyder specific. Yes, since I'm playing male Ryder who at times, I feel is sometimes he self-medicated and didn't bother to tell me before I assumed direct control.
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Post by kino on Apr 29, 2017 3:13:11 GMT
You know, in my first play through I decided on a "girl in every port" scenario. Keri on the Nexus, Avela Kjar on Aya, just to see how that worked out. So on Movie Night there was no LI involved and everything looked great. My 2nd play through was PeeBee and I was dreading Movie Night because of what I've heard, yet it still went great with no glitches. I honestly feel bad for those it glitches out on, because it's a decent scene in the game, but I'm not sure why it triggers a glitch for some and not others. I'd hate to be the programmer at BioWare trying to fix this. From what I understand, this glitch is femRyder specific. Geebus...that's a pisser of a glitch. Borking the romance of half it's player base must have led to some awfully interesting Tweets to the BioWare account.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 29, 2017 3:22:14 GMT
From what I understand, this glitch is femRyder specific. Geebus...that's a pisser of a glitch. Borking the romance of half it's player base must have led to some awfully interesting Tweets to the BioWare account. Heh, especially for those whose LI choice don't really have a whole lot of content specifically for them, like Suvi, for instance.
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 29, 2017 3:40:33 GMT
I highly recommend watching this video, it highlights the main issues with how MEA dealt with aliens (first contact, angara, kett, etc.) you do understand they were watch the initiative before Ryders arrival and that's how they know there language?
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