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Post by sinophile on May 8, 2017 6:22:49 GMT
Hai Guyz,
The more I think about the Genophage, the less sense it makes to me. In ME3, Mordin easily reversed the Genophage by spraying everyone in Tuchanka with this magical mist. My question is, how did the Turians manage to administer the Genophage in the first place? Two things come to mind:
1.) There must've been many Krogans off-world at the time, especially if they were used as Galactic soldiers.
2.) The Krogans wouldn't have voluntarily allowed themselves to be sterilized.
Drack apparently is 1400+ years old, and had a grand daughter. Was he born with the Genophage, or did he somehow become sterilized later in life?
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Post by dmc1001 on May 8, 2017 6:40:26 GMT
Hai Guyz, The more I think about the Genophage, the less sense it makes to me. In ME3, Mordin easily reversed the Genophage by spraying everyone in Tuchanka with this magical mist. My question is, how did the Turians manage to administer the Genophage in the first place? Two things come to mind: 1.) There must've been many Krogans off-world at the time, especially if they were used as Galactic soldiers. 2.) The Krogans wouldn't have voluntarily allowed themselves to be sterilized. Drack apparently is 1400+ years old, and had a grand daughter. Was he born with the Genophage, or did he somehow become sterilized later in life? The genophage was spread by the Shroud. I don't know how many krogan were offworld at the time. At that point they were enemies of the Council races so no one was using them as galactic soldiers. However, given that they were kind of winning it seems very unlikely that most krogan were on Tuchanka. That's a definite gap in the lore. Drack is 1400+ years old (not counting the journey to Andromeda) but the genophage is older (though lore seems inconsistent on this). Drack's daughter is adopted and she, like Kesh, was one of the lucky 1 in 1000 to survive.
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Post by duskwanderer on May 8, 2017 11:07:06 GMT
Given that I let the genophage continue, I don't think too much about it. Worth it to keep Mordin.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 11:18:09 GMT
As the krogan are my favourite species in the mass effect universe I was pleased to see an option to "cure" the genophage!
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Post by Monica21 on May 8, 2017 12:03:59 GMT
Hai Guyz, The more I think about the Genophage, the less sense it makes to me. In ME3, Mordin easily reversed the Genophage by spraying everyone in Tuchanka with this magical mist. My question is, how did the Turians manage to administer the Genophage in the first place? Two things come to mind: 1.) There must've been many Krogans off-world at the time, especially if they were used as Galactic soldiers. 2.) The Krogans wouldn't have voluntarily allowed themselves to be sterilized. Drack apparently is 1400+ years old, and had a grand daughter. Was he born with the Genophage, or did he somehow become sterilized later in life? For starters, it doesn't affect males, it affects females. The genophage doesn't reduce fertility but rather reduces the ability to have a viable pregnancy, hence all the conversation about stillbirths. While I don't think the game ever addressed the specifics of its deployment, the genophage was developed by the Salarians and released by the Turians.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 14:46:40 GMT
In ME3, Wrex (depending on dialogue selections) can indicate that the genophage had gone on "1,476 years to be exact, if you're keeping track."
I believe Mordin (somewhere in either ME2 or ME3) also indicates that the genophage affects the nervous system of the developing fetus. When on releases Grunt from the tank in ME2, EDI does indicate that he bears the "genetic marker of the genophage, present in alll krogan." So, it seems, that there is some genetic effect that's present in both males and females.
I think there is a lot of discrepancies within the game as to how the genophage actually worked... not to mention how it was magically deployed and cured; whereas Mordin tells us in ME2 that his group were risking life and limb deploying the enhancement to the genophage manually on Tuchanka and doesn't mention anything about a "shroud" allowing for a one-shot release. It also seems to me that if the krogan as a species are so susceptible to their genetic makeup being changed by "magic dusts" and other environment poisons, they would have just simply died out long before (despite a redundant set of organs).
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sinophile
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Post by sinophile on May 9, 2017 4:50:21 GMT
That also makes me wonder how Mordin concocted a cure within a few weeks onboard a ship, but huge Corporations(E.G. Binary Helix) during that time were unable to fix it. Regardless, Krogan still seem pretty common around the Citadel. It makes me wonder how many more of them there were 1,000 years ago.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 9, 2017 5:12:30 GMT
That also makes me wonder how Mordin concocted a cure within a few weeks onboard a ship, but huge Corporations(E.G. Binary Helix) during that time were unable to fix it. Regardless, Krogan still seem pretty common around the Citadel. It makes me wonder how many more of them there were 1,000 years ago. A lot, which was the problem, especially with numbers continuing to grow. They were invading planets to find new places to live. I remember something about krogan flinging asteroids at turian planets. It's why the turians got desperate enough to unleash the genophage.
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Post by SimRahzel on May 9, 2017 20:27:18 GMT
Best not to think about it too much. The lore on the genophage is all over the place and falls apart with the slightest analysis.
Quarian lore is kind of the same. The idea of an exiled race, trapped in their suits and living in a huge space convoy is pretty cool, so let's not question why they couldn't claim a new colony world before their immune systems were wrecked by living in an over-sterile environment (despite the fact humans have settled dozens in a very short space of time) or why they'd ever have to wear suits on Quarian ships housing only Quarians to begin with!
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Post by dmc1001 on May 10, 2017 3:13:44 GMT
As the krogan are my favourite species in the mass effect universe I was pleased to see an option to "cure" the genophage! Always loved Wrex. Grunt, too. And Eve. Even when playing Paragon I'm secretly pleased when Wrex kills Fist. It's the reason why I bring him. Oh, and him coming to the rescue in Citadel DLC is outstanding. Love love love Wrex! Therefore, stabbing him in the back isn't an option.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 10, 2017 3:21:42 GMT
That also makes me wonder how Mordin concocted a cure within a few weeks onboard a ship, but huge Corporations(E.G. Binary Helix) during that time were unable to fix it. Regardless, Krogan still seem pretty common around the Citadel. It makes me wonder how many more of them there were 1,000 years ago. Mordin had something Binary Helix didn't: access to the original form of the genophage (he'd worked on it and modified it), as well as how it works in modified form. Even the turians didn't really know how it worked.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2017 6:55:25 GMT
As the krogan are my favourite species in the mass effect universe I was pleased to see an option to "cure" the genophage! Always loved Wrex. Grunt, too. And Eve. Even when playing Paragon I'm secretly pleased when Wrex kills Fist. It's the reason why I bring him. Oh, and him coming to the rescue in Citadel DLC is outstanding. Love love love Wrex! Therefore, stabbing him in the back isn't an option. During my first play through of mass effect I had no paragon option for wrex. Nooooooooo ;( safe to say I didn't make that mistake again
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Post by sinophile on May 11, 2017 0:35:44 GMT
Best not to think about it too much. The lore on the genophage is all over the place and falls apart with the slightest analysis. Quarian lore is kind of the same. The idea of an exiled race, trapped in their suits and living in a huge space convoy is pretty cool, so let's not question why they couldn't claim a new colony world before their immune systems were wrecked by living in an over-sterile environment (despite the fact humans have settled dozens in a very short space of time) or why they'd ever have to wear suits on Quarian ships housing only Quarians to begin with! I always thought that the whole thing with the Quarians was so that they didn't have to draw Tali with her mask off. That would keep them from having to draw facial expressions as well. Bioware seems very lazy when it comes to 3-D modeling(Each race including the humans pretty have just have one modiel that is simply re-textured or palette-swapped to make more characters). That being said, I was wondering why they waited until the very end of the game to bring up the Quarians, who would have the most incentive to make a 600 year journey.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 11, 2017 2:03:58 GMT
Best not to think about it too much. The lore on the genophage is all over the place and falls apart with the slightest analysis. Quarian lore is kind of the same. The idea of an exiled race, trapped in their suits and living in a huge space convoy is pretty cool, so let's not question why they couldn't claim a new colony world before their immune systems were wrecked by living in an over-sterile environment (despite the fact humans have settled dozens in a very short space of time) or why they'd ever have to wear suits on Quarian ships housing only Quarians to begin with! I always thought that the whole thing with the Quarians was so that they didn't have to draw Tali with her mask off. That would keep them from having to draw facial expressions as well. Bioware seems very lazy when it comes to 3-D modeling(Each race including the humans pretty have just have one modiel that is simply re-textured or palette-swapped to make more characters). That being said, I was wondering why they waited until the very end of the game to bring up the Quarians, who would have the most incentive to make a 600 year journey. Why would they have more incentive than anyone else? They could easily have settled elsewhere in the Milky Way. They chose not to, instead living on a fleet of ships and waiting until the day when they could retake Rannoch. It's they're own damn fault they don't have a planet of their own. That said, it would not be a shock to discover that not everyone agreed with the Admirals, told them to screw off, and left the fleet to find a new home with the AI. Though, again, they could have done that in the Milky Way.
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Post by treoir on May 22, 2017 10:18:24 GMT
That also makes me wonder how Mordin concocted a cure within a few weeks onboard a ship, but huge Corporations(E.G. Binary Helix) during that time were unable to fix it. Regardless, Krogan still seem pretty common around the Citadel. It makes me wonder how many more of them there were 1,000 years ago. Given how ineffective corporations tend to be, about dealing with certain kinds of problems, Mordin's divergent success did not seem all that incongruous, to me. Meanwhile, for deployment, presumably the people that did the deployment concealed how they did so, because if that had been known that would have revealed too much about how it worked -- leading to whatever Mordin did having been done.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2017 10:25:04 GMT
That also makes me wonder how Mordin concocted a cure within a few weeks onboard a ship, but huge Corporations(E.G. Binary Helix) during that time were unable to fix it. Regardless, Krogan still seem pretty common around the Citadel. It makes me wonder how many more of them there were 1,000 years ago. Mordin had the original data, a brilliant mind, and Eve. She was starting to fight off the genophage naturally so he could use her DNA and the previous Salarian data to make a cure. He had also worked on the genophage directly in his former job and knew it very well. Mordin does mention tweaking the genophage by tainting water sources, so they didn't just use the shroud. Salarians are wily bastards, they'd have figured it out. And given that the only other option was genocide, the Salarians have always tried to find ways to keep a viable Krogan population intact. Anyway if you unpick everything you'll end up finding discrepancies, it's a trilogy of games made over many years by many people so I guess it's bound to happen.
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Post by aoibhealfae on May 27, 2017 23:36:56 GMT
Its a nuclear-equivalent of an infertility virus. A bioweapon meant as a political deterrence method of controlling a population.
In parts of why I sometimes use examples of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings when talking about the genophage. When the US nuke both cities, they don't directly attack the military itself which ravaged across asia pacific. The same applies to what happened to the Krogan when the Turians unleash the genophage, it doesn't affect directly to the actual krogan who was terrorizing the Citadel space, but to the people back home on Tuchanka who saw drastic stillbirths and infertility among the female population and the krogan military slowly lay down their weapons and soon became demilitarized.
Depending on your perspective, both genophage by the turians and atomic bombs by the US can be considered as war crimes, as they're both specifically targeting civilian population. US only got involved into WW2 after Pearl Harbor was attacked, the turians got involved into the Krogan Rebellion because the krogan threatened their own homeworld and both was acknowledged as a heroic and justifiable actions by both perpetrators because the end result favor the victors.
And the aftermath of both events still affect both affected population in long term and still in recovery.
Yes, the Salarian do have the capacity to reverse the genophage but as Mordin said, the genophage is an unpredictable cocktail and the krogan themselves have the natural ability to physically adapt and evolve accordingly (they mostly live in a nuclear wasteland anyway). In Genophage Modification Project, he have to create his own modification over the existing wild-type genophage strain by forcing a code that inhibit necessary hormones for fetal neural development so the babies ended up being born brain dead. In ME3, the 'Cure' doesn't effect both strains, rather it simulated the krogan capacity to adapt by artificially inducing immune organs to mutate and produce different hormones to enable viable birth. Thus circumvent the genophage and its modification's effects.
In layman term, the genophage is political. The Salarians doesn't think the Krogan deserve their species to expand because they are technically biologically immortal and by taking away their children, they still kept the krogan at a manageable state in case there's another intergalactic giant monster invasion that they couldn't handle. Even a thousand years old krogan is as battle ready as a young krogan, so there's no real need for new blood in the existing pool. Which is why most notable krogan you see seem to be perpetually violent, they're barely a generation or two from the krogan who fought the Rachni War and Krogan Rebellion.
Meanwhile on Tuchanka and MEA, younger krogans themselves are like equivalents to millennials. You seem most of them being merchants, engineers and scientists. Grunt and other test tube krogans doesn't count.
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Post by sil on May 28, 2017 13:49:01 GMT
Quarian lore is kind of the same. The idea of an exiled race, trapped in their suits and living in a huge space convoy is pretty cool, so let's not question why they couldn't claim a new colony world before their immune systems were wrecked by living in an over-sterile environment (despite the fact humans have settled dozens in a very short space of time) or why they'd ever have to wear suits on Quarian ships housing only Quarians to begin with! Settling colonies are difficult for Quarians, they've had a few and attempted to settle others (but were blocked by the Council), so eventually they just stayed on their ships.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 28, 2017 22:12:56 GMT
The quarians had settlements prior to the Morning War. I believe they lost those during the war. They tried to settle new worlds in Council space afterward but were denied. However, the Terminus Systems are outside of Council rule and we know for a fact that there are uncharted systems around. They merely had to look. Imagine if some enterprising quarian on Pilgrimage decided to go exploring and found a new colony world for his or her people. Imagine the accolades for it. But, nah, it's easier to go to Pilgrimage on Omega (god knows why) or some remote human colony instead. So, yeah, I kind of blame the quarians for not having a colony of their own.
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Post by elvelynda on Jun 8, 2017 7:12:35 GMT
I always imagined it was somehow transmittable between individuals. Presumably airborne, since that's how it was spread in the first place. Any Krogan that was affected when it was initially spread and then left Tuchanka would infect any off-world Krogan that he/she came into contact with. Over a few years it would end up pretty widespread before they even realized what was happening.
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