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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on May 8, 2017 20:41:13 GMT
With Shepard we had Pre-Service History, Psychological Profile, and Classes which trigger various missions and dialogues related to them, allowing to make various "Shepard" combinations, further making a unique character beyond just the Renegade and Paragon paths.
I'm a little disappointed that Profiles and Skills don't have the same impact, with the exception of Peebee's loyalty mission. (Tech - Remnant VI) Even so we still have to activate Observers to make certain actions instead of allowing our Remnant VI to do them.
While Training have a description which implies to determine Ryder's background like Shepard's Pre-Service History and Psychological Profile-, however all they do is determine starting Skills, Profile and Weapons, no actual impact on Ryder's personality or dialogues.
There's just missed opportunity at role-playing, to make various unique Ryders beyond just the 4 "Tones" because of predetermined aspects for each Ryder. - Gender: the ability to have 2 male Ryders or 2 female Ryders. - Age: ability to choose which sibling is younger and which is older. - Background: the ability to choose which sibling is guarding the Relay and which is assigned to Mars, or even allow them both to serve in the same place. - Training: the ability to choose Training for our sibling, and for Training to make small variations in the Background stories. (as they imply to) - Profiles: the ability to choose a Profile for our sibling, since they also have the same SAM implant.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2017 20:48:31 GMT
Age: I'd be a 67 year old bitch with floppy titties.
Background: My sibling is actually a conjoined twin
Training: We both worked as nude models
Profiles: My sibling just flails her limbs around like a windmill.
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Post by shechinah on May 8, 2017 21:37:43 GMT
Eh, Shepard's background and service history pretty much became lost potential after the first game. After that game, it just felt like each got a token mention but nothing more which was egregious to me because of the plot in the latter games. Had a more detailed and more eloquent post. Can't find it at the moment so here's short summary:
Sole Survivor? Works with Cerberus, briefly brings up prior experience, gets told rogue agents by Miranda and to give Cerberus a chance. Is allowed no more comments. Has to deal with a bunch of people throwing shade but never allowed to speak in defense. Gets email from Toombs. No encounter with him. No mention either.
Spacer Shepard? Dies, mom sends email, Shepard never calls despite suicide mission that could mean Shepard dies again. Wasted oppertunity for proper goodbye and wasted potential for heartwarming or tearjerker moments. No call in last game either. Only in DLC though. Just a quick hey she's alright from Hackett in base game.
Earthborn Shepard? None of the former crew is encountered. Would have thought some would have wounded up with Cerberus. Could have had potential with characters like Jack because street kid background but none. In the last game, plot keeps harping on Earth but Shepard never has options to talk about their time there despite having grown up there.
Colonist Shepard? Could have gotten a option or two to mention Mindoir what with the colonies going missing. Also in last game, working with batarians and known batarian terrorist.
Could have been some good moments and character-building too including through reflecting but nope and nada.
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Post by Melcara on May 8, 2017 21:53:48 GMT
Eh, Shepard's background and service history pretty much became lost potential after the first game. After that game, it just felt like each got a token mention but nothing more which was egregious to me because of the plot in the latter games. Had a more detailed and more eloquent post. Can't find it at the moment so here's short summary: Sole Survivor? Works with Cerberus, briefly brings up prior experience, gets told rogue agents by Miranda and to give Cerberus a chance. Is allowed no more comments. Has to deal with a bunch of people throwing shade but never allowed to speak in defense. Gets email from Toombs. No encounter with him. No mention either. Spacer Shepard? Dies, mom sends email, Shepard never calls despite suicide mission that could mean Shepard dies again. Wasted oppertunity for proper goodbye and wasted potential for heartwarming or tearjerker moments. No call in last game either. Only in DLC though. Just a quick hey she's alright from Hackett in base game. Earthborn Shepard? None of the former crew is encountered. Would have thought some would have wounded up with Cerberus. Could have had potential with characters like Jack because street kid background but none. In the last game, plot keeps harping on Earth but Shepard never has options to talk about their time there despite having grown up there. Colonist Shepard? Could have gotten a option or two to mention Mindoir what with the colonies going missing. Also in last game, working with batarians and known batarian terrorist. Could have been some good moments and character-building too including through reflecting but nope and nada. At least Shepard had something, though. Like the calls from their mom. Ryder gets absolutely nothing. You have to listen to Cora prattle on about how hard it is to be a biotic and can't even tell her "Hey, I'm a biotic too!".
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 8, 2017 22:01:06 GMT
I somewhat disagree. I like that their backgrounds are locked in place.
What bothers me is that I wanted to roleplay, not as myself in their shoes, but as them within their specific individual parameters, but for the most part they made sister and brother the same character.
I get that the role is in place but the characterization could've been more than Sara being dorky when trying to flirt. They have a 4-tone system where the majority of choices is split into only two options. Why the hell didn't they distinguish it so that Sara has a lot more exclusive Heart vs Screw choices and Bro has a lot more Swirl vs Square options? That way it's as if they'd be saying "Male Ryder's tendency is more professional and occasionally a wisecrack" because he's a total "bro" and Sara is more compassionate but also rational because she's more mature which women often are when they're the same age as their male counterparts.
They could've balanced the dialogue branches out more like that I think without it necessarily multiplying the total amount of choices vs responses from the NPCs and it would've made playing as each character feel like unique characters.
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Post by shechinah on May 8, 2017 22:06:13 GMT
At least Shepard had something, though. Like the calls from their mom. Ryder gets absolutely nothing. You have to listen to Cora prattle on about how hard it is to be a biotic and can't even tell her "Hey, I'm a biotic too!". Except you don't have any calls after the first game except for one that you only recieve if buy DLC. Despite Shepard's backgrounds having ample oppertunity to come into play throughout the latter games of the trilogy, it never does after the first game and only recieves token mentions. I don't like mandatory backgrounds but since backgrounds is what is being compared then I'll have to say that Ryder's family background had way more presence in one game than any of Shepard's backgrounds had in three games. That was the problem with the backgrounds: they were more or less dropped after the first game. Acknowledgement of player class in dialogue has never been a Mass Effect thing as far as I can recall: it's more a Dragon Age thing. If that's what's being compared then Shepard gets absolutely nothing either.
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Post by Melcara on May 8, 2017 22:28:51 GMT
At least Shepard had something, though. Like the calls from their mom. Ryder gets absolutely nothing. You have to listen to Cora prattle on about how hard it is to be a biotic and can't even tell her "Hey, I'm a biotic too!". Except you don't have any calls after the first game except for one that you only recieve if buy DLC. Despite Shepard's backgrounds having ample oppertunity to come into play throughout the latter games of the trilogy, it never does after the first game and only recieves token mentions. I don't like mandatory backgrounds but since backgrounds is what is being compared then I'll have to say that Ryder's family background had way more presence in one game than any of Shepard's backgrounds had in three games. That was the problem with the backgrounds: they were more or less dropped after the first game. Acknowledgement of player class in dialogue has never been a Mass Effect thing as far as I can recall: it's more a Dragon Age thing. If that's what's being compared then Shepard gets absolutely nothing either. Biotic Shepard actually does get scarcely acknowledged. One situation that comes to mind is in ME3, where Kaidan asks Shepard if they can make things float with their biotics. There is also an engineer exclusive scene in the Omega DLC. Overall, I'd say the frequency of background acknowledgement is pretty much the same, meaning very low. But the thing I appreciate about Shepard is having the option to choose a background. There are six different backgrounds, which means six different lines of dialogue whenever it gets mentioned. Whereas Ryder has only one background, depending on the gender you're playing as, which I find quite restricting, roleplaying-wise. Sara is a researcher, Scott is a relay guard. That's it. There is no in-between. With Shepard, there's at least the option to choose. I do agree that class and background acknowledgement is much more prominent in DA, though. Something that I hoped they would have integrated into this game.
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Post by shechinah on May 8, 2017 22:45:25 GMT
Biotic Shepard actually does get scarcely acknowledged. One situation that comes to mind is in ME3, where Kaidan asks Shepard if they can make things float with their biotics. There is also an engineer exclusive scene in the Omega DLC. Overall, I'd say the frequency of background acknowledgement is pretty much the same, meaning very low. But the thing I appreciate about Shepard is having the option to choose a background. There are six different backgrounds, which means six different lines of dialogue whenever it gets mentioned. Whereas Ryder has only one background, depending on the gender you're playing as, which I find quite restricting, roleplaying-wise. Sara is a researcher, Scott is a relay guard. That's it. Therr is no in-between. With Shepard, there's at least the option to choose. I do agree that class and background acknowledgement is much more prominent in DA, though. Something that I hoped they would have integrated into this game. I was excluding the scene from the Omega DLC because, well, it's DLC but I recall that there is also a scene with Chakwas in ME1 one where she brings up Shepard's biotics in relation to Kaidan's but I don't recall any scene in ME3? I'm not fond of mandatory backgrounds and would prefer multiple ones so I would have liked for researcher and relay guard to be avaliable for both genders but I still think the family background had more content than any of Shepard's backgrounds had and had moments that I felt was sorely missed in the latter games of the OT. An example is providing the player with dialogue options. While there is a huge gap in content in regards to the sibling character, there is content in regards to the father and family spread throughout the game including in companion conversations. Not just mentions but options for Ryder to discuss him and their family while sharing their opinion of the two topics. Ryder even has the option to talk about their motivation for joining the Andromeda. It's not as good as it could have been, in my opinion, and not my preferred method of backgrounds but like I said, I think the family background has more content than Shepard's backgrounds and allowed the player options to discuss the background and how their character felt about it. Speaking of which, are we comparing the number of backgrounds, the content of the backgrounds, roleplaying restrictions or all of the three? I'm not sure so I wanted to ask in case I'm merry-go-rounding around the thread's topic.
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Post by Melcara on May 8, 2017 22:57:26 GMT
Biotic Shepard actually does get scarcely acknowledged. One situation that comes to mind is in ME3, where Kaidan asks Shepard if they can make things float with their biotics. There is also an engineer exclusive scene in the Omega DLC. Overall, I'd say the frequency of background acknowledgement is pretty much the same, meaning very low. But the thing I appreciate about Shepard is having the option to choose a background. There are six different backgrounds, which means six different lines of dialogue whenever it gets mentioned. Whereas Ryder has only one background, depending on the gender you're playing as, which I find quite restricting, roleplaying-wise. Sara is a researcher, Scott is a relay guard. That's it. Therr is no in-between. With Shepard, there's at least the option to choose. I do agree that class and background acknowledgement is much more prominent in DA, though. Something that I hoped they would have integrated into this game. I was excluding the scene from the Omega DLC because, well, it's DLC but I recall that there is also a scene with Chakwas in ME1 one where she brings up Shepard's biotics in relation to Kaidan's but I don't recall any scene in ME3? I'm not fond of mandatory backgrounds and would prefer multiple ones so I would have liked for researcher and relay guard to be avaliable for both genders but I still think the family background had more content than any of Shepard's backgrounds had and had moments that I felt was sorely missed in the latter games of the OT. An example is providing the player with dialogue options. While there is a huge gap in content in regards to the sibling character, there is content in regards to the father and family spread throughout the game including in companion conversations. Not just mentions but options for Ryder to discuss him and their family while sharing their opinion of the two topics. Ryder even has the option to talk about their motivation for joining the Andromeda. It's not as good as it could have been, in my opinion, and not my preferred method of backgrounds but like I said, I think the family background has more content. Speaking of which, are we comparing the number of backgrounds, the content of the backgrounds, roleplaying restrictions or all of the three? I'm not sure so I wanted to ask in case I'm merry-go-rounding around the thread's topic. - Kaidan's biotics comment. Rather offhanded, but it's something. And yeah, the family background did have much more content, but again, that's mostly because it's a predetermined background, and because Ryder's family is actually present in the game and is quite important to the story, whereas details about Shepard's family were glossed over because, well... They're not a part of the game. The part where Ryder talks about reasons for joining the Initiative is quite nice, though. Wish we had something like that with Shepard - why they joined the Alliance, why they're so dedicated to uncovering the Reapers etc. And I'm guessing OP was talking about the background content and roleplaying restrictions? Since there's not really much to compare when it comes to the number of backgrounds
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Post by obatalaryder on May 9, 2017 1:23:37 GMT
Eh, Shepard's background and service history pretty much became lost potential after the first game. After that game, it just felt like each got a token mention but nothing more which was egregious to me because of the plot in the latter games. Had a more detailed and more eloquent post. Can't find it at the moment so here's short summary: Sole Survivor? Works with Cerberus, briefly brings up prior experience, gets told rogue agents by Miranda and to give Cerberus a chance. Is allowed no more comments. Has to deal with a bunch of people throwing shade but never allowed to speak in defense. Gets email from Toombs. No encounter with him. No mention either. Spacer Shepard? Dies, mom sends email, Shepard never calls despite suicide mission that could mean Shepard dies again. Wasted oppertunity for proper goodbye and wasted potential for heartwarming or tearjerker moments. No call in last game either. Only in DLC though. Just a quick hey she's alright from Hackett in base game. Earthborn Shepard? None of the former crew is encountered. Would have thought some would have wounded up with Cerberus. Could have had potential with characters like Jack because street kid background but none. In the last game, plot keeps harping on Earth but Shepard never has options to talk about their time there despite having grown up there. Colonist Shepard? Could have gotten a option or two to mention Mindoir what with the colonies going missing. Also in last game, working with batarians and known batarian terrorist. Could have been some good moments and character-building too including through reflecting but nope and nada. Colonist Shepard briefly mentions Mindoir during the Javik DLC in ME3. Beyond that, Mindoir is always mentioned around him, by other people or in galactic news.
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Post by smoothie on May 9, 2017 1:29:29 GMT
Maybe there'll be a time jump for Andromeda 2 and we'll get to pick a service history for what Ryder did in between games (assuming Ryder comes back for sequels). That could be an opportunity to start developing Ryder into more of a paragon/renegade style hero than just typical good guy/girl that they were in this game.
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Post by danishgambit on May 9, 2017 2:10:44 GMT
Yeah all that stuff seemed pretty irrelevant apart from your class. And even then your class only got you the rare e-mail, a small change in some dialougue or a mission. In ME1 you needed a specific background to get the Corporal Toombs mission but with Bioware always complaining about how nothing is worth doing unless everyone sees it I don't think we'll ever see anything like that being implemented in their games.
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Post by danishgambit on May 9, 2017 2:17:02 GMT
Age: I'd be a 67 year old bitch with floppy titties. Background: My sibling is actually a conjoined twin Training: We both worked as nude models Profiles: My sibling just flails her limbs around like a windmill. Would your face be tired?
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Post by dmc1001 on May 9, 2017 2:43:25 GMT
My Ryder in the third PT is already different than in the first two. Instead of having a loving, close knit family, he was distant from his father. He cared about him in the general "he's my father" kind of way but little more. He wasn't broken up when Alec died (which, unfortunately, is true regardless of your feelings for him). He's often logical and professional (different from the first two PTs) and, while it doesn't impact the game tremendously - since we're going to the same place no matter what - it does affect my relationships to others. First PTs I had a flirty Scott but this one isn't. It really changes the vibe of things. I recommend trying that out. Also, this one is dead honest, even when it makes the AI, or Addison (who I don't hate anymore), look bad. The thing about role play is how *I* respond to the game. If I don't get into the head of my character than I can't be successful at it. I do agree that some more background options would have been nice but just because Scott guarded a relay and Sara was with a science team doesn't mean that one is automatically tougher, kinder, sluttier or whatever than the other. Those are things you get to decide. I'd say training was cut largely because of the profile system. It becomes largely irrelevant if your were trained as a straightforward soldier but then sink all your points into biotics and become a vanguard or adept. Minor spoilers, but this isn't in the spoiler section so I'm trying to be nicer. Maybe a profile for sibling will matter when we get a chance to really use them as a squadmate. Of course, given that the twins have the same implant they may be able to both switch profiles. (It's unclear because the Archon seemed to treat your twin as if she were a perfect stand-in for you. I'm starting to think the profiles were always possible - just unknown - and that all Alec transferred were access to memories and pathfinder's ability to guide the Tempest.)
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Post by dmc1001 on May 9, 2017 2:47:53 GMT
Yeah all that stuff seemed pretty irrelevant apart from your class. And even then your class only got you the rare e-mail, a small change in some dialougue or a mission. In ME1 you needed a specific background to get the Corporal Toombs mission but with Bioware always complaining about how nothing is worth doing unless everyone sees it I don't think we'll ever see anything like that being implemented in their games. Which background is that? I just played the Corporal Toombs mission with my Earthborn/War Hero/Vanguard Shepard. The mission has more impact if you're the Sole Survivor but you get the mission regardless.
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Post by congokong on May 9, 2017 3:14:25 GMT
I remember the good ol' days when you could play anywhere from a saint to a psychopath in Bioware games (ex: KOTOR 1, ME1, DA:O). It seems with each new iteration of a series, the role-playing decreases. DA:I had the least role-playing for Dragon Age, and ME:A has the least for Mass Effect. There is more and more resorting to headcanons to pick up the slack.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 9, 2017 3:17:07 GMT
I remember the good ol' days when you could play anywhere from a saint to a psychopath in Bioware games (ex: KOTOR 1, ME1, DA:O). It seems with each new iteration of a series, the role-playing decreases. DA:I had the least role-playing for Dragon Age, and ME:A has the least for Mass Effect. There is more and more resorting to headcanons to pick up the slack. True. I could never bring myself to be a total Renegade (best I could do was nice to squadmates and mean to everyone else) but I have enjoyed watching the videos and reading about PTs that went in that direction. Fascinating, honestly.
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