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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 5:59:41 GMT
I think another problem is the lack of non-"paragon" responses. I mean, I'm roleplaying a very nice and sentimental Scott but sometimes it'd be nice if there were more harsher/non-diplomatic options. I feel like the "logical" and "formal" dialogue choices are just a more politely phrased version. They are. Logical is just businesslike.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 5:37:27 GMT
You can toughen her up, but it grows over time and slowly. She starts off a typical nerd who is stumbling. Scott can also be softer and a bit smart, but again you start off without that and need to form it, but there is lots of dialogue you might find taken out of your control. I know my Sara has said some stuff that just felt so wrong. Basically it's like having an option in DAI for a noble or mage. You get special dialogue based on your background. Eh not really? That dialogue wasn't personality based. It was background based. I had a noble mage and elf mage that could act near identical save for their backgrounds. They had the same flirts, it only came up if it was relevant (like asking Cullen if he was okay with an elf/mage).
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 5:33:07 GMT
Okay, to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. If you play a lady, then be prepared to be a shy and giggling little girl when you flirt. She's sounds brainy and the "smart girl." If you play guy, you get to be a stereotypical space marine, aside from choosing not to be straight. You can't do more than minor changes in the CC. You know, if BioWare wants to do a game with a 100% set protagonist (save for romance choices,) then I'd get it. This feels like an awkward mix of the two. Once again, the Development Hell is showing right here. I think some current or former team members wanted a more established character while others wanted to be more open. I know I'll likely enjoy ME:A, but I'm looking a lot less forward to playing Sara than I had been. I think I need a cigarette, refill my coffee mug and go kill some geth while I keep an eye on things. See the thing that irritates me about this is there's benefits to having a set protagonist. Their relationships and the plot can be more heavily entwined, their characterization, and so on. You see how the plot influences them on a far deeper level than a more open character. With this shitty implementation you lose out on almost all of that. and you lose out on the fun of crafting your own character. It's just ugh. Add that to the plot that's wtf at the best of times and it's just "Why?"
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 5:22:55 GMT
Scott also has a more cool and calm way of flirting, and Sara stumbles and makes a fool of herself. Sara is stumbling around and nervous? That's so moe and kawaii, desu. I thought it was cute with Liam and Suvi but she's like that with every LI? Good lord I didn't think I'd miss the days of my Inquisitor's terrible pick up lines so soon.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 5:19:35 GMT
Yeah. Nerd Scott would've been super cute. (But I do agree with Ryzaki that the protagonists in Mass Effect should have as little of a pre-defined personality as possible.) The industry seems to move toward pre-defined character. In Fallout 4, you are forced to be married have kids and completely happy with your relationship, in MEA, you have family, the siblings have their own personality instead of simply being a self insert. and FO4 rightfully got shat on for it because they like BW do not tell stories good enough to justify them hijacking the PC.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 5:18:35 GMT
Yeah that's shit. They can take that and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. If I wanted to play a character that defined I'd go to devs who could actually write a coherent story that makes sense. Yeah, I don't like it at all. I want our choices to shape our personality, the way it has to some extent in past games. They should go back to developing that more. I don't like being shoehorned into specific character traits just because I picked a certain gender. And you know it's always going to be stereotypical shit. OF COURSE Scott is the "srs military guy" and Sara is the "whimsical, nature loving" one. Yeah it's enough to make me wanna hurl (especially since I ALWAYS play my males as the more emotional ones and my females as the more rational and calm ones in games that I play both). Like fuck is that shit. I'm so happy most of that BS seems to be missing from the Liam romance. Like good grief I'm so happy I didn't start romancing Jaal because that would've blindsided me so bad and I would've loathed him and his romance. Yeah that's shit. They can take that and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. If I wanted to play a character that defined I'd go to devs who could actually write a coherent story that makes sense. This is the real reason why I realized I was wrong about him being bisexual. It's not as much because he's written to be straight, but he feels like he was written for Sara's personality. Many say the same for Scott and Cora. Is it right? No. But it seems to be how they went about it. Bi Jaal is not impossible, but you can't just put Scott in place of Sara without changing Scott to be like Sara, so they would have to write all new things. Jesus christ and of course they went pure gender sterotypes. Top kek BW.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 4:57:22 GMT
*vomits in disgust* Oh god no. They need to fuck off with this telling me what my PC likes. God I hope we never see the Ryders again. If nothing else I hope MEA bombs worse than DA2 because of that. Yeah they warned us the twins would be different and have personalities that make them react to things and people in different ways. Yeah that's shit. They can take that and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. If I wanted to play a character that defined I'd go to devs who could actually write a coherent story that makes sense.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 4:56:30 GMT
I only cure it if Wrex and Eve are alive (which is only on my renegon and paragon). Otherwise nope. My paragade had to shoot Mordin in the back. I think ME3 just broke him. Haha, what's the difference between renegon and paragade ? For me? Mostly my renegon spared anyone who would be useful to him (which ended up being pretty much everyone. But he was a super dick doing it). My paragade killed anyone who hurt the defenseless or was too much of a danger to live. (but wasn't as douchy about it as renegade).
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 4:52:49 GMT
But why even code it that way in the first place if they were never planning on using it? None of the other straight options were confused to be bi by the dataminers. Plus, like you say, there's clearly something weird going on with the flirt options that could well be explained by last-minute changes to scrap a Jaal/Scott romance. All of this seems to point to them at the very least seriously considering making Jaal bi. They might have. Cathleen wrote bi Kaidan. She might have tried something with Scott, but it never panned out. Also, I guess the best way to explain it is... Jaal and Sara's romance story/scenes are based on Sara's personality. She is an explorer, she loves nature, she studies ancient stuff and she's a nerd. Jaal is the same way. They are kindred spirits. Their scenes are not something to be copy and pasted. They have a deep bond that makes them soulmates. And no this isn't a love-struck woman telling you this. I may romance Jaal, but I am a story teller too, and I could see where it was going when they met. Scott is a military guy, is more focused on less brainy stuff (he can't explain human eyeballs to Jaal, but Sara blurts out the answer like a computer). If he was to have a romance with Jaal, it would have to be based on his personality and Jaal has less common ground with Scott to begin with too. *vomits in disgust* Oh god no. They need to fuck off with this telling me what my PC likes. God I hope we never see the Ryders again. If nothing else I hope MEA bombs worse than DA2 because of that. That's like completely counterproductive to how I'm playing my Sara. Jesus christ. (save the explorer bit because clearly she volunteered to go to a new galaxy they're all explorers.)
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 4:50:20 GMT
I think I'll stick with curing the genophage. I'm not going to let an entire race face extinction just to keep a person alive that wants to make his mistakes right. Greater good and all that. The krogans are my favorite race, and I'll shed some tears over the loss of a friend if that's what it takes to help redeem an entire species. Of course, I am the same person that likes Destroy and still brokers peace with the geth and quarians in all of my runs, so take that as you will. Thanks for letting me know. Learn something new every night! I only cure it if Wrex and Eve are alive (which is only on my renegon and paragon). Otherwise nope. My paragade had to shoot Mordin in the back. I think ME3 just broke him.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 3:10:35 GMT
Yeah he should've been bi from the start. If the devs had noticed a lack of m/m LIs Liam really should've been the go to fill in. First guy, stays by your side a lot, the well meaning good guy that tries to help, doesn't scream about how attracted he is to the ladies, isn't morally bankrupt, yes he's not plot important but the fact that you get him first makes up for that IMO. Like the more I think about it the more confused I get. They had a pretty good option and they decided to go for nothing over that. Smh. Also his damn fan thread would be more than 80 something pages right now But, you see, it just didn't make sense for him to be bi, so they decided against it. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. /s In all seriousness, watching clips from his loyalty mission just made me more upset that he wasn't bi - I'd absolutely go for him if he was. yeah I'm just smh. He's such a dork. (though you can be a bit mean to him during it but he bounces back and I love it).
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:59:25 GMT
True but he's more liable to be bi than Jaal is kind of off considering 90% of the bi males have acted like Jaal. I'm simply coming at it from a resources matter since they went and spent all their budget on Cora's O face and wanted to skimp out on the m/m content. Which is why I wanted (we all wanted) bi Liam in the first place but there has to be rewrites and new dialogue recorded but there's alr that no homo line and we all know people will take up arms about it. Yeah he should've been bi from the start. If the devs had noticed a lack of m/m LIs Liam really should've been the go to fill in. First guy, stays by your side a lot, the well meaning good guy that tries to help, doesn't scream about how attracted he is to the ladies, isn't morally bankrupt, yes he's not plot important but the fact that you get him first makes up for that IMO. Like the more I think about it the more confused I get. They had a pretty good option and they decided to go for nothing over that. Smh. Also his damn fan thread would be more than 80 something pages right now
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:46:13 GMT
The more I think about it the more WTF I get at Liam not being a bi option (not character wise but resource wise). Even his scene wouldn't take much work (really just swapping Sara for Scott and some minor adjustments since it's nothing more than kissing. And unlike Jaal he doesn't go on and on about the women he's attracted to. Oh but no. It's has to "make sense". Even if nothing about him would change being bi. >_> Of course it wouldn't make sense (TM)! He's one of the two starting human squadmates. We only want to be selectively video game-y. Oh yeah it would've broken that stupid trope too. A bonus. True but he's more liable to be bi than Jaal is kind of off considering 90% of the bi males have acted like Jaal. I'm simply coming at it from a resources matter since they went and spent all their budget on Cora's O face and wanted to skimp out on the m/m content. I meant because of cutscenes. It would not be as awkward. Jaal's scenes are so involved with heavy and detailed animation that fits Sara's height and everything. But again, it's not right because he wasn't written to be that way. See that makes me salty because that was a waste of resources. Don't do that shit when the rest of your game isn't up to snuff. But I'll spare my salt on that for another day.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:42:13 GMT
The more I think about it the more WTF I get at Liam not being a bi option (not character wise but resource wise). Even his scene wouldn't take much work (really just swapping Sara for Scott and some minor adjustments since it's nothing more than kissing. And unlike Jaal he doesn't go on and on about the women he's attracted to. Oh but no. It's has to "make sense". Even if nothing about him would change being bi. >_> That's why I mentioned him earlier. True but he's more liable to be bi than Jaal is kind of off considering 90% of the bi males have acted like Jaal. I'm simply coming at it from a resources matter since they went and spent all their budget on Cora's O face and wanted to skimp out on the m/m content.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:38:18 GMT
The more I think about it the more WTF I get at Liam not being a bi option (not character wise but resource wise). Even his scene wouldn't take much work (really just swapping Sara for Scott and some minor adjustments since it's nothing more than kissing. And unlike Jaal he doesn't go on and on about the women he's attracted to. Oh but no. It's has to "make sense". Even if nothing about him would change being bi. >_>
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:08:12 GMT
I hate to be 'that guy', but someone needs to point out that developing the scenes would take considerable resources and time, and with an (arguably) smaller percentage of the game's population participating in in a certain romance option, it doesn't make much fiscal sense to animate it all. Hell, look at Peebee's romance... there is no difference between Male and Female Ryder. Bioware was clearly struggling for time as it was and looking for places to cut corners, and while it may upset some... let's call them 'less understanding people', they made the right choice to cut them and put effort into other areas of the game that clearly needed it and still need it. If they hadn't made the Cora and PeeBee scenes so graphic in the first place then it wouldn't be a problem. The issue is that a ton of work went into those scenes. They could have instead dialed those scenes down and spread the cinematic love around. But they didn't. They chose to target a specific audience and it is VERY clear who that audience is. Yep they could've had most of the scenes like Gil/Scott and Sara/Liam. Some heavy kissing and FTB. They're the ones who decided to get all extra with it.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:05:38 GMT
If PeeBee would stop stalking Jaal's room he might return to it and Liam will update his clothes lol seriously she is always waiting around his room. He's always in the crew quarters. When she's in her pod, then he's back in his room. jaal figured he might as well do room-swap after he got done with armor-swap, I suppose. Poor Jaal. Peebee has grown on me so much tho. I really didn't think I'd like her but she's awesome. I'll probably let the super emotional Scott I started to romance her since Ladybits is a no go.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 2:00:30 GMT
Shirtless Liam was bae Jaal was the one who really needed to put his clothes back on. Good grief. I will never unstop seeing his head as certain parts now. God no. If PeeBee would stop stalking Jaal's room he might return to it and Liam will update his clothes lol seriously she is always waiting around his room. He's always in the crew quarters. When she's in her pod, then he's back in his room. lmao yeah I was wondering why he was always with Liam it makes it awkward for me to be all flirty and I'm just like "Jaal would you take your purple ass elsewhere? I'm trying to get some vitamin D." Then I flirted with Jaal hoping Liam was say something and nope. And now I'm dearest. Someone's gonna get their heart stomped on RIP. Jaal was the one who really needed to put his clothes back on. Good grief. I will never unstop seeing his head as certain parts now. God no. *snip* Yeah me too. *looks at the blue one* Oh god I am ten. *laughs hysterically*
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 1:40:28 GMT
Please spoiler tag the answer to this. I just want to look at Liam shirtless, Maybe it's just bad timing with the cutscenes. After the shirtless Liam/naked Jaal thing, Liam was doing push-ups, then sat shirtless on the couch with Sara and showed her some pics LOL I am just grateful Jaal is not walking around nude. Shirtless Liam was bae Jaal was the one who really needed to put his clothes back on. Good grief. I will never unstop seeing his head as certain parts now. God no.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 1:25:29 GMT
Yeah, that conversation could have been given a lot of depth. Instead of "yes, you're right, our prime directive in this galaxy is to start popping out babies". That's so clinical. Parenting, family, these are all such major themes. To ask someone else if they would like to raise a family together -- I mean, just writing it out, that can be really romantic and meaningful. But like you said, it needs even more care and development. And I do think that that arc could've worked without Jill, imo she undermines the narrative or at least complicates it 'cause Gil does want her in the picture. Yeah if the child scenario was about how he wanted a child and to start a family and why he wanted to the story would be so much better. Jill really should have minimal if anything impact in the whole child decision thing. It'd be so much better if he was the one who asked her to carry his child and she agreed to it because they were friends. But you're right a baby story can be so sweet if done right. And agreed about the Jill thing it's just weird how much he talks about her.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 1:11:36 GMT
Yeah that's a stupid excuse. BW has characters that are similar to each other all the time. Morrigan is pretty much a Viconia expy so they can kick rocks with that "he's too similar" bs. I KNOW. If it was consistent with his characterization I'd get it. Like if he was a big family man then I'd get it. But the first thing out of his mouth is how he likes just going with the flow. So it's just slappily pasted on. And it's not even like he grows into it he just decides to follow Jill (not to mention wtf is she so majorly in his stories. It's not even done in the usual lover/mentor that the DA games do) with the babies. Like they could've had the Jill thing work (especially if they tied it into that Allison quest with the doctor) but they don't so it's kind of huh? Or maybe I missed something. y Seriously, Bioware practically has an entire set of common character tropes that always fall back on. Yes, that's exactly it. It feels slapped on to be groundbreaking, but its execution just doesn't make sense(tm). Like, I want to know why HE wants children, idgaf what Jill wants. If he'd explained that it's because of his own upbringing (his father not being in the picture, growing up Earth-born) that he craves a family, sure. And if there were more build up to it, and it was a topic toward the culmination of the romance and not before we've even done anything beyond flirting, that would also be nice. His relationship with Jill is also very "tell, not show" and I really don't know why she's so important to him, just that she apparently is. Wow, I'm salty. Seriously. If he had a big family that he had to leave behind and/or loved kids (and that's why he was working with Jill) then I'd get the let's start a family ASAP. (Especially if had him want to start soon because of what happened to the past outposts and realizing he might not have as much time as he thought to be a father. And yes it would be built up to instead of him just dropping a bomb on Scott (or even if he was blunt about wanting to have kids soon and he and Scott's romance started on that setting and Scott has some actual damn dialogue about having kids at his age and what worries/concerns/excitement. Some goddamn development and it not being as shallow as a puddle would help significantly. Also yeah Jill was awful. Ideally she'd be either not in his story at all or much better developed. They went for far too in his story and poorly developed and that just makes the whole thing seem off and awkward.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 1:04:41 GMT
I'm just shocked they didn't give Gil and Reyes decent m/m content honestly. There's nothing wrong with 2 choices to me(even two non squadmate choices) but the problem was they put practically no effort into them. If you're gonna have a non squadmate romance you have to put more effort into their romance than a non squadmate for it to feel as developed. How did they not realize that is anyone's guess. They just slapped a hot mess together and called it a day.
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 0:50:49 GMT
I do wish Gil had actually felt like a character. Even Cortez feels more developed and he had Carth Sydnrome. That said man I wish GIl was better developed or they had actually bothered to give us that other companion and he'd been a gay alien. If nothing else hopefully this leads to the next ME game having gay companions and they don't half ass their love scenes compared to everyone else's. It's such a shame they cut the seventh squadmate. I heard it's because he was "too much like Garrus" or something? You can never have too much of someone that's like Garrus. Also, I just can't get over Gil talking about Jill and babies all the time. I had a cutscene convo with him (and if you've played MEA you know how rare those are with him) and the first thing he asks me is if I want babies. D: Gil plz. Yeah that's a stupid excuse. BW has characters that are similar to each other all the time. Morrigan is pretty much a Viconia expy so they can kick rocks with that "he's too similar" bs. I KNOW. If it was consistent with his characterization I'd get it. Like if he was a big family man then I'd get it. But the first thing out of his mouth is how he likes just going with the flow. So it's just slappily pasted on. And it's not even like he grows into it he just decides to follow Jill (not to mention wtf is she so majorly in his stories. It's not even done in the usual lover/mentor that the DA games do) with the babies. Like they could've had the Jill thing work (especially if they tied it into that Allison quest with the doctor) but they don't so it's kind of huh? Or maybe I missed something. y
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 0:46:41 GMT
One final question: Do you guys want a LGBT+ only thread for romances? I'm being specific, because the person did state that there should be one. Personally, I'd rather not but again, this is more about the posters than me. Isn't that the KISA thread in a nutshell though? Why does there need to be another one?
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Post by Ryzaki on Mar 24, 2017 0:46:03 GMT
If they actually do bi Jaal I'm gonna go salt mining.
And cackle all day every day.
And then finally romance him because he's not winning over Liam.
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