inherit
8885
0
7,212
river82
4,949
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Oct 30, 2017 23:12:18 GMT
So, I definitely think all the blood magic is stupid, and the people who use it are asking for trouble, and so on and so forth. You just nailed the appeal right there. Trouble, what a delicious sounding word.
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,212
river82
4,949
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Oct 30, 2017 23:14:27 GMT
You can not eat and starve at the same time. I think you're trying to say "You can't have your cake and eat it too." Off topic - Never liked this version of the saying. It makes much more sense when you reverse the order of the sentence.
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Oct 30, 2017 23:16:06 GMT
Magic is magic, not good or bad, only depend on the user. Every mage able to use it, someone does it, someone refuses to use. I want to see why so feared the blood magic, and I want real choices: if the protagonist would want a real improvement, then s/he must sacrifice something (someone?) That's certainly Solas' opinion! I suppose I'm brainwashed by the Chantry or whatever, but Blood Magic almost always has unintended consequences - and I don't remember if it was Hawke or Dorian who said it, but there's always that excuse to reach for just a little bit more because what you have is never quite enough. That was Dorian. "Blood magic isn't inherently dangerous. Using your own blood or that of a willing participant? What's the harm? The problem is that what's permitted only gets you so much power. And what if you need more? You always need more. That's where we get into sacrifices and demon-summoning. None of that is done — not officially. Behind closed doors, it's a different story. Real blood magic can give you an edge, a leg up on your opponents. It's safe to assume any mage of rank does it. The rest are quietly shut out of power, to put it bluntly." It's interesting that Dorian himself refers to REAL blood magic when referring to what's allowed in Tevinter and what's practiced in secret. But yes, blood magic almost inevitably blows up in the user's face. Except when it's being used for completely evil ends, which is when it seems to work perfectly.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,700
gervaise21
10,821
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 31, 2017 9:49:22 GMT
If blood magic is so bad though, what do we make of Solas' defence of it as just another form of magic. I know he is not the most reliable of witnesses, considering he considers the end justifies the means and he doesn't believe in good and evil, but nevertheless the reason the Divine Justinia I originally condemned it was because of the blood sacrifice element and the power to control minds. Solas does object to anything that denies personal freedom and free will. It is why he particularly hates the Qun. So are we to assume that, like Dorian, he was making a distinction between blood magic as a source of mana and "real" blood magic as used in Tevinter that involves unwilling sacrifice and enslavement of the mind?
Also what are we to make of his assertion that the only reason he does not use it is that it interferes with his connection with the Fade? We have been told the reason that the Veil is thin at the site of old battles is because of the bloodshed that took place. Originally we were led to believe that it was the enormous blood sacrifice by the Ancient Magisters that was able to open the Veil and allow them to reach the Black City. So what was going on there? Also Isseya could tell that Calien was not drawing his power from the Fade when he used blood magic. There seems a degree of alteration in the lore since DAO but I suppose it can be explained that we were getting our information from Chantry mages who do not use blood magic and therefore do not really understand its use.
So where does it get its power from? Also if it interferes with the connection to the Fade, how are blood mages able to find the sleeping minds of others since normally you would use the Fade to do this?
|
|
formerfiend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
Posts: 547 Likes: 955
inherit
6916
0
955
formerfiend
547
April 2017
formerfiend
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Former_Fiend
|
Post by formerfiend on Oct 31, 2017 17:37:07 GMT
Fact that you can have your inquisitor, including a mage inquisitor, state that they don't find anything wrong with blood magic in and of itself so long as it's not abused, but still not allow them to become a blood mage because apparently people would take issue with that, goes to my ongoing bugbear about how the game shoehorns the PC into the role and doesn't allow us to explore the consequences of playing a PC who doesn't give a damn. Are only act of defiance is to make impotent statements without acting on them. Gotta color inside the lines and adhere to the values of this Andrastian organization that we were unorganically railroaded into joining.
Honestly I probably wouldn't even have played a blood mage if given the option because I've never really gotten the hang of the playstyle in DAO or DA2; always found it to be counter-intuitive.
But the fact that they don't give us the option still irks me.
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Oct 31, 2017 17:42:34 GMT
If blood magic is so bad though, what do we make of Solas' defence of it as just another form of magic? Cultural bias. If the ancient elves practiced blood magic, he likely wouldn't have any issue with it. He is technically correct that when properly used, blood magic isn't inherently evil. And perhaps in his day, it was simply a power source and nothing more. But the existence of the Veil and the limitations upon magic has necessitated exploration of what blood magic is capable of, and now mages are capable of using it in ways the ancient elves would never have suspected. Case in point: the occulara.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,700
gervaise21
10,821
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 31, 2017 18:50:46 GMT
Were the occulara blood magic? It was gruesome and cruel but there are other means of attracting demons other than blood magic. Whatever caused the shards to be scattered over the world it would seem to have occurred after the ancient elves, possibly when the Veil was created but certainly not something they would even have needed to consider since I'm sure they just didn't scanter shards randomly for the hell of it.
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Oct 31, 2017 21:47:51 GMT
Were the occulara blood magic? It was gruesome and cruel but there are other means of attracting demons other than blood magic. Few that I've seen. Fewer that could compel them to possess a Tranquil.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
May 18, 2024 17:01:19 GMT
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Nov 1, 2017 4:11:06 GMT
Were the occulara blood magic? It was gruesome and cruel but there are other means of attracting demons other than blood magic. Whatever caused the shards to be scattered over the world it would seem to have occurred after the ancient elves, possibly when the Veil was created but certainly not something they would even have needed to consider since I'm sure they just didn't scanter shards randomly for the hell of it. I wouldn't think so. Even if they did require a gruesome death, the process itself was more concerned with possession and timing than anything else. I'd be more prone to label it as a form of spirit magic (a school that is often confused as blood magic), given that the actual requirement for creating an occulara is reliant on using magic for the sake of possession. The death, while a requirement for its creation, is not a driving force of the magic used. But whatever the case, I'd put my money on the magic being used purely because spirits/demons find tranquil so undesirable. Even if they do 'see' the tranquil by some ritual or another, what spirit/demon would want to go through the trouble of trying to convince one to let it possess the body willingly when the tranquil are so dominated by logic? What passion could a demon use to gain their compliance? What argument could a benign spirit use that would override the tranquil's reasoning that has likely been dominated by traditional Chantry teachings? Even if they do find a way to convince the tranquil into possession (ex. Pharamond, who was on the explicit mission to cure tranquility), is it worth the effort? A rock would be easier to possess than a tranquil on sheer account that there would be no resistance. And I'm sure that some spirits would not find the idea of wrestling with cured-tranquil psyche to be all that palatable. Whatever magic they used was likely because they couldn't find an easier way to attract demons other than more or less using magic to force them in the same vicinity as a tranquil.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,700
gervaise21
10,821
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Nov 1, 2017 11:37:21 GMT
As a side issue, do you find in interesting how necromancy was changed from being something associated with evil characters (Quentin) in DA2 to something associated with good characters like Dorian and the Mortalitasi generally in DAI and so considered reasonably acceptable, even though Josephine says it may cause some diplomatic problems if you become one and Cassandra would rather not mention it.
It mainly seems to be an amalgamation of the spells from the Spirit and Entropy schools. Now the mechanics of how a mage caused Fear or Despair in their enemies was never specifically explained in the first two games but you just assumed it was the art of the mage in being able to use their power in that way, possibly creating some form of illusion to frighten their enemies. Surely the Templars would never have allowed regular spirit/demon summoning by Circle mages? However, the description in DAI specifically states: "You unleash spirits of fear". Surely, that should say "demons of fear" since that is what they are. They cannot be simply wisps as Solas suggests because they do not have a specific identity and so would not cause an emotional reaction in that way. So in fact the Necromancer is summoning demons or alternatively summoning wisps that are instantly transformed into demons of fear. Strange that Solas would not have a problem with that. However, Cole definitely does not approve of necromancy because of the damage it causes to the wisp. Mortalitasi say they use spirits of the Fade "displaced" by a dead soul travelling across it and call them into the mummified bodies of the dead. That could explain why there are so many demons lurking around battlefields I suppose, since they have been displaced by all the souls of the dead travelling the other way. It does show though that the Mortalitasi necromancer can attract a displaced spirit into something unattractive to them like a dead body.
Also the spellbinder mages are specifically summoning spirits and then binding them to inanimate objects. I would think that they could use similar magic to bind spirits to a tranquil. I'm pretty sure that whilst the description for occulara says they summon a demon, it is quite possible that it is an ordinary spirit, possibly even a simple wisp, that is transformed through being forcibly summoned across the Veil as it touches the mind of the tranquil to which it is being bound. Spellbinders are of course a class that was entirely new to DAI, although codices have shown that Tevinter mages have often been engaged in binding spirits and demons to inanimate objects in the past, so it would seem to be something that was merely confined to that region. Hardly surprising when you consider how suspicious the Chantry are of any magic utilising spirits and only really permit it where healing is concerned.
|
|
House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,214
inherit
621
0
10,214
House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
August 2016
thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
gscott7833
1,584
|
Post by House Targaryen on Nov 5, 2017 6:27:16 GMT
No use blood magic. Its foul and evil and stuff. Very bad.
|
|
inherit
8885
0
7,212
river82
4,949
July 2017
river82
|
Post by river82 on Nov 5, 2017 6:35:14 GMT
No use blood magic. Its foul and evil and stuff. Very bad. This message was brought to you by
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Nov 6, 2017 20:08:28 GMT
Good. Bad. I’m the guy with the gun.
|
|