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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 13, 2017 2:29:35 GMT
True, but at a bare minimum, it will be a negative blow to morale for the whole DA team and disruptive to the current schedule, while a new leader is identified and put in place. That assumes that the new leader hasn't been identified and maybe even put in place already. I certainly hope so. But it's still disruptive. It's disruptive even when a key manager goes on vacation for a week. Based on the quote hrungr posted above, Laidlaw had approval over a whole lot of stuff. Now, all that said, if Laidlaw was a fairly experienced leader, he would have been grooming his replacement. Succession plans for key leaders should be SOP. But even for the best planned departures, it's disruptive, no two ways about it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 13, 2017 2:29:58 GMT
Not sure if this is good or bad news for DA4's development.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 13, 2017 2:42:43 GMT
UPDATE: Edmonton attack happened the day before those tweets, and Las Vegas attacks day of, so maybe the tweets were about those horrific events?
WARNING: I'm in a negative/doomsday state of mind, so this SPECULATION is probably complete nonsense and hazardous to one's peace of mind.
I reread Laidlaw's earlier tweets about BOY TODAY IS A DAY and FUCK and Patrick Weekes's tweeting A DAY THAT LEAVES A LOT TO THINK ABOUT ... and I think this suggests that some major change was made, either structurally or content-wise to the franchise, and Mike quit over it. And when I'm feeling particularly negative, I read PW's tweet as he's also thinking about quitting.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 13, 2017 2:44:03 GMT
That assumes that the new leader hasn't been identified and maybe even put in place already. I certainly hope so. But it's still disruptive. It's disruptive even when a key manager goes on vacation for a week. Based on the quote hrungr posted above, Laidlaw had approval over a whole lot of stuff. Now, all that said, if Laidlaw was a fairly experienced leader, he would have been grooming his replacement. Succession plans for key leaders should be SOP. But even for the best planned departures, it's disruptive, no two ways about it. Indeed. That said, this might actually be the most opportune time for someone in his position to leave. All the important foundation work in pre-production is done. They're settling into Production now, but not so deep yet that decisions around what needs to be kept/cut/re-worked need be made. This is probably a good time for a successor to step in and have a chance to settle into the role.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 13, 2017 2:49:32 GMT
WARNING: I'm in a negative/doomsday state of mind, so this SPECULATION is probably complete nonsense and hazardous to one's peace of mind. I reread Laidlaw's earlier tweets about BOY TODAY IS A DAY and FUCK and Patrick Weekes's tweeting A DAY THAT LEAVES A LOT TO THINK ABOUT ... and I think this suggests that some major change was made, either structurally or content-wise to the franchise, and Mike quit over it. And when I'm feeling particularly negative, I read PW's tweet as he's also thinking about quitting. Well, later the same day PW had a whole thread about three writers having content peer reviewed for a whole week and how it's "humbling, exhausting, and frequently nerve wracking. But when you see team all working together to make something great, it's worth it", so...
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 13, 2017 2:53:23 GMT
WARNING: I'm in a negative/doomsday state of mind, so this SPECULATION is probably complete nonsense and hazardous to one's peace of mind. I reread Laidlaw's earlier tweets about BOY TODAY IS A DAY and FUCK and Patrick Weekes's tweeting A DAY THAT LEAVES A LOT TO THINK ABOUT ... and I think this suggests that some major change was made, either structurally or content-wise to the franchise, and Mike quit over it. And when I'm feeling particularly negative, I read PW's tweet as he's also thinking about quitting. Well, later the same day PW had a whole thread about three writers having content peer reviewed for a whole week and how it's "humbling, exhausting, and frequently nerve wracking. But when you see team all working together to make something great, it's worth it", so... To read between those lines for a second, it sounds like Weekes and the rest of the staff were put in their place, so to speak. Likely a decision was made from the higher ups regarding something already written that was a major change over, possibly forced by EA, Darrah, Hudson or whomever.
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Post by Zemgus on Oct 13, 2017 2:55:39 GMT
I think there's a good reason to be concerned here. Mike Laidlaw was such a big part of the Dragon Age franchise - it's very surprising and sad to see him leave (and so suddenly too). He seemed like a such nice guy. I'm worried because this all reminds me of what happened with MEA. Though unlike MEA at least DA4 is a planned sequel in the same world and with the plot and characters as the previous game, so maybe at least part of the original vision for the game will survive. One can hope at least.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 13, 2017 2:56:32 GMT
Well, later the same day PW had a whole thread about three writers having content peer reviewed for a whole week and how it's "humbling, exhausting, and frequently nerve wracking. But when you see team all working together to make something great, it's worth it", so... To read between those lines for a second, it sounds like Weekes and the rest of the staff were put in their place, so to speak. Likely a decision was made from the higher ups regarding something already written that was a major change over, possibly forced by EA, Darrah, Hudson or whomever. No, what he spoke about in that thread was about PEER reviews, not any decisions made by higher-ups.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 13, 2017 2:59:09 GMT
To read between those lines for a second, it sounds like Weekes and the rest of the staff were put in their place, so to speak. Likely a decision was made from the higher ups regarding something already written that was a major change over, possibly forced by EA, Darrah, Hudson or whomever. No, what he spoke about in that thread was about PEER reviews, not any decisions made by higher-ups. Agreed, and this is a straw of hope I am clinging to. It's only when I'm at my nadir of despair that I read PW as thinking about leaving too.
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Post by river82 on Oct 13, 2017 2:59:19 GMT
Well, later the same day PW had a whole thread about three writers having content peer reviewed for a whole week and how it's "humbling, exhausting, and frequently nerve wracking. But when you see team all working together to make something great, it's worth it", so... To read between those lines for a second, it sounds like Weekes and the rest of the staff were put in their place, so to speak. Likely a decision was made from the higher ups regarding something already written that was a major change over, possibly forced by EA, Darrah, Hudson or whomever. That's nothing new, happens to every creative person working on AAA games. They'd constantly talk about being outraged over decisions, Gaider would talk about having to go home he was so outraged because he realised he'd do nothing but be the grumpy guy in meetings. Higher ups in dev circles will also be overruled by Publishers constantly. It's par for the course. The most important thing is knowing exactly what was changed before judging these matters. It's the content of the change that will determine whether this is good or bad
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 13, 2017 2:59:51 GMT
To read between those lines for a second, it sounds like Weekes and the rest of the staff were put in their place, so to speak. Likely a decision was made from the higher ups regarding something already written that was a major change over, possibly forced by EA, Darrah, Hudson or whomever. No, what he spoke about in that thread was about PEER reviews, not any decisions made by higher-ups. Peer reviews don't just mean a writing staff. For my own work I sometimes have two or so editors peer review it before it's published, both of which are a higher rank than me. As I said, reading between the lines on it. Doesn't mean I'm right, though.
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 13, 2017 3:01:25 GMT
No, what he spoke about in that thread was about PEER reviews, not any decisions made by higher-ups. Agreed, and this is a straw of hope I am holding onto. It's only when I'm at my nadir of despair that I read PW as thinking about leaving too. What he described sounded pretty normal for having your stuff shown off to be judged by a group of people. So I choose to see this as an encouraging sign.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 13, 2017 3:01:37 GMT
No, what he spoke about in that thread was about PEER reviews, not any decisions made by higher-ups. Peer reviews don't just mean a writing staff. For my own work I sometimes have two or so editors peer review it before it's published, both of which are a higher rank than me. As I said, reading between the lines on it. Doesn't mean I'm right, though. In this case, Patrick Weekes would be the higher up.
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 13, 2017 3:03:40 GMT
Peer reviews don't just mean a writing staff. For my own work I sometimes have two or so editors peer review it before it's published, both of which are a higher rank than me. As I said, reading between the lines on it. Doesn't mean I'm right, though. In this case, Patrick Weekes would be the higher up. Very true. Perhaps it was his own writing staff then. Or, it was a mandate done by Darrah, Hudson or someone else? We can't know for sure at all at this point.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Oct 13, 2017 3:04:10 GMT
I wouldn't... Mike seems like a really cool, friendly guy and is probably really talented and good at his job. But he is one person. It takes a village. *edited because it seemed like I thought he was dead* *drinks for edit* True, but at a bare minimum, it will be a negative blow to morale for the whole DA team and disruptive to the current schedule, while a new leader is identified and put in place. If you will allow an analogy to surgery, is losing Mike like losing your spleen, which is survivable, or is it more like losing your heart or brain? Sure, all the different parts of the body do their share of the work and it's a team effort, but at the end of the day, do you have a wounded but living survivor, or an undead corpse aping the behaviors of a loved one? I find your analogy creepy. On the 'bare minimum' thing...I'll concede disruption to schedule, but not negative blow to morale, unless that negative can be really, really small in the vein of "I'm sad that my boss who I liked has left", and not necessarily default to "We have no idea what we're doing!!!!" With regards to the rest of the tension that we've seen, well, sometimes shit is hard. And sometimes people want to vent the feelings created by said shit. Not saying there isn't doom on the horizon...just that it doesn't necessarily mean there is doom on the horizon either, simply because a number of people have had gloomy tweets. They might just be in a particular unenjoyable part of development. Or found that something they'd been working on and were really excited about isn't going to work, or isn't going to be in the game. And then finding out Mike is leaving compounded those feelings.
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Post by oh deer on Oct 13, 2017 3:05:41 GMT
As concerned as I am for what his leaving means for the future of Dragon Age, I'm really curious as to why he left. It feels like all the big names at Bioware are suddenly up and leaving for some reason.
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 13, 2017 3:09:08 GMT
As concerned as I am for what his leaving means for the future of Dragon Age, I'm really curious as to why he left. It feels like all the big names at Bioware are suddenly up and leaving for some reason. Unless Laidlaw joins us here to tell us I doubt we'll find out the reason why, we can only speculate.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 13, 2017 3:09:35 GMT
I find your analogy creepy. Apropos of my state of mind. And, it's almost Halloween! It will depend on the mode of Laidlaw's leaving. If he left voluntarily to go do something even more rewarding, and there was a long transition time for people to adjust, sure. But if he was fired, or quit over an unacceptable change forced on him by a superior, the blow to morale will have reverberations for some time to come. And whatever the mode, any time a valued leader leaves, it plants the seed of doubt in everyone else. "What does he know that I don't? Maybe I should get out while the getting is good?" I've seen this first-hand many times. When enough good people leave, there's a stampede for the door.
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Post by oh deer on Oct 13, 2017 3:11:16 GMT
As concerned as I am for what his leaving means for the future of Dragon Age, I'm really curious as to why he left. It feels like all the big names at Bioware are suddenly up and leaving for some reason. Unless Laidlaw joins us here to tell us I doubt we'll find out the reason why, we can only speculate. True. I do have hopes and dreams that someone writes an exposé or something like that of the company. I've read some reviews for working at the Montreal studio and they were not good at all. Edmonton is different, I know, but still.
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Post by river82 on Oct 13, 2017 3:14:34 GMT
As concerned as I am for what his leaving means for the future of Dragon Age, I'm really curious as to why he left. It feels like all the big names at Bioware are suddenly up and leaving for some reason. Unless Laidlaw joins us here to tell us I doubt we'll find out the reason why, we can only speculate. Or he could be like Chris Avellone and snipe passive aggressively at his former colleagues on Twitter and any other forum he can, just to make it clear to all and sundry precisely why he's upset xD
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 13, 2017 3:19:33 GMT
Unless Laidlaw joins us here to tell us I doubt we'll find out the reason why, we can only speculate. Or he could be like Chris Avellone and snipe passive aggressively at his former colleagues on Twitter and any other forum he can, just to make it clear to all and sundry precisely why he's upset xD Avellone is kind of an overrated jerk though, I'd expect that from him. I mean he's worked on some great games, but his overall talents sometimes pale in comparison to the teams he surrounds himself with.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 13, 2017 3:22:50 GMT
Agreed, and this is a straw of hope I am holding onto. It's only when I'm at my nadir of despair that I read PW as thinking about leaving too. What he described sounded pretty normal for having your stuff shown off to be judged by a group of people. So I choose to see this as an encouraging sign. Also, we had Courtney Woods respond to this particular thread with "Last week was one of the best weeks of my career. So grateful for my amazing coworkers". I'd say that its' pretty encouraging as well. So even if we assume that some decisions were made that them unhappy... it doesn't seem to have an impact on writing team? At least so far.
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Post by Superhik on Oct 13, 2017 3:26:24 GMT
Unless Laidlaw joins us here to tell us I doubt we'll find out the reason why, we can only speculate. Or he could be like Chris Avellone and snipe passive aggressively at his former colleagues on Twitter and any other forum he can, just to make it clear to all and sundry precisely why he's upset xD What did he say, exactly? I've read something about it, issues the company has about handling the projects/with the management, but anyone familiar with Obsidian would've known that already.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 13, 2017 3:27:18 GMT
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 13, 2017 3:27:39 GMT
What he described sounded pretty normal for having your stuff shown off to be judged by a group of people. So I choose to see this as an encouraging sign. Also, we had Courtney Woods respond to this particular thread with "Last week was one of the best weeks of my career. So grateful for my amazing coworkers". I'd say that its' pretty encouraging as well. So even if we assume that some decisions were made that them unhappy... it doesn't seem to have an impact on writing team? At least so far. For me, it says they haven't had to start from scratch. That's really what I worry about, that they would have to throw out a large amount of the work they did over the past several years to appease some higher mandate. So far it doesn't look like that is the case, or whatever changes were made relate to something other than writing or is of limited scope. So the reason for Mike's departure remains mysterious.
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