Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Nov 8, 2016 10:18:17 GMT
Congratulations! You just summed up what a true psychopath is all about. Hey! If you ever run into one make sure you tell them that same logic, "What you are doing makes no sense." I'm sure they'll stop, analyze your words and their choice and become an upstanding citizen. Some murderknife not all of them,like those against the merchant in Lothering and those two at Ostagar against the wounded soldier and the young elf,they made no sense at all. But Hey that's DAO,no matter what you do they will still call you Hero! Its not just DA. Take a look throughout real life history. Plenty of psychopaths and yet many people viewed them as heroes. Then the other-side of that is: people. There are those who are willing to over-look the bad someone does if they complete an act of heroism. Plus when your in Fereldan with only TWO Grey Wardens, with a Blight and a Civil War; you don't really have much of an option who you can call hero. Especially when they save every-ones ass. Bob: "Hey! That "Hero" of Fereldan killed my brother for no reason!"
Tom: "Yeah, but he/she did kill an archdemon. So at least were still alive, Thedas isn't overrun with darkspawn and Fereldan is still in tact-mostly."
Bob: "Your right! Lets go get drunk and I'll raise a glass to the Hero of Fereldan."
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 9, 2016 8:52:08 GMT
To be fair some murderknife options in DAO were totally insane and made no sense. I prefer the term "ruthless" myself. Some of them make sense and are even extremly effective but there are some like the wounded soldier in the Korkari wilds and the merchant in Lothering and also the elf at Ostagar that are just insane.Ah there is also that guy in DAA that the warden can burn into the lava for no reason....
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Nov 9, 2016 9:12:26 GMT
I prefer the term "ruthless" myself. Some of them make sense and are even extremly effective but there are some like the wounded soldier in the Korkari wilds and the merchant in Lothering and also the elf at Ostagar that are just insane.Ah there is also that guy in DAA that the warden can burn into the lava for no reason.... A lot of the point is that there's no reason to do them, and it lets you roleplay someone who kills for no reason if you so choose. As for that last one, you do get that the guy in DA:A is implied to be Blighted? And that the kicking him into the lava thing is stated to be because you think he probably is? Also, I still prefer the term "ruthless."
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 9, 2016 9:31:57 GMT
Some of them make sense and are even extremly effective but there are some like the wounded soldier in the Korkari wilds and the merchant in Lothering and also the elf at Ostagar that are just insane.Ah there is also that guy in DAA that the warden can burn into the lava for no reason.... A lot of the point is that there's no reason to do them, and it lets you roleplay someone who kills for no reason if you so choose. As for that last one, you do get that the guy in DA:A is implied to be Blighted? And that the kicking him into the lava thing is stated to be because you think he probably is? Also, I still prefer the term "ruthless." That's exactly the definition of insane aka evil for the lulz and causing sufferings without reasons other than the pleasure to cause that pain there is nothing "ruthless" about it. The person in the cage is not blighted,it does not have any feature that are typical of the ghouls and the warden kill him without verify his body.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Nov 9, 2016 11:00:25 GMT
A lot of the point is that there's no reason to do them, and it lets you roleplay someone who kills for no reason if you so choose. As for that last one, you do get that the guy in DA:A is implied to be Blighted? And that the kicking him into the lava thing is stated to be because you think he probably is? Also, I still prefer the term "ruthless." That's exactly the definition of insane aka evil for the lulz and causing sufferings without reasons other than the pleasure to cause that pain there is nothing "ruthless" about it. The person in the cage is not blighted,it does not have any feature that are typical of the ghouls and the warden kill him without verify his body. This is the first time I've ever heard a definition of "ruthless" that involved being at all pragmatic. To be sure the best written ruthless characters are, but no definition I've ever heard requires it and a character who isn't is sometimes more fun to play. And while the guy you can lava shows no physical signs of being Blighted, his quick exit when you meet him again in Amaranthine seems a bit suggestive. It's not proof or even very strong evidence, but it's enough that you can't give your definitive "no he isn't."
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Post by Sifr on Nov 9, 2016 12:44:12 GMT
If Leliana or Cassandra ever give you grief for your decisions as Inquisitor... remember who was their second choice for the job.
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secretrare
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Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by secretrare on Nov 10, 2016 13:27:13 GMT
I prefer the term "ruthless" myself. Some of them make sense and are even extremly effective but there are some like the wounded soldier in the Korkari wilds and the merchant in Lothering and also the elf at Ostagar that are just insane.Ah there is also that guy in DAA that the warden can burn into the lava for no reason.... After all the events of DAO my warden became insane(Being corrupted by Duncan,deceptions,betrayals,desertions, monsters and being close to death countless of times).Those kind of murderknife options are now totally justified for my warden,she will kill even for petty reasons. In order to be cured from this insanity she need a good spiritual master or death.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 13, 2016 13:27:49 GMT
I prefer the term "ruthless" myself. Some of them make sense and are even extremly effective but there are some like the wounded soldier in the Korkari wilds and the merchant in Lothering and also the elf at Ostagar that are just insane.Ah there is also that guy in DAA that the warden can burn into the lava for no reason.... Definitely agree with you about the soldier in the Korkari Wilds; your character lacks the knowledge to even speculate on whether the guy is tainted. Shouldn't Alistair who's leading the group of recruits stop you? As to the elf at camp, if your PC is the dwarf commoner and something of a thug -- and if Alistair is not accompanying you -- I can see him killing someone for a good sword since that's your background. Interesting you should mention the guy in DAA; Dragon Age Redesigned makes him look beat up so that "killing him because of possible taint" makes more sense.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 13, 2016 14:18:50 GMT
To my mind you can hardly criticise the Warden for anything when you consider the example Duncan gives on how to conduct yourself. (Bear in my also that whilst never revealed in the game, Duncan was in fact a petty thief/murderer who was conscripted by the victim's fiancée). With the exception of the Dalish origin, when you are already affected by the Blight, every other person could conceivably have lived after the events of their origin but Duncan steps in and conscripts them. (This is particularly noticeable in the human noble origin where you could surely have got away without his help and he only gives it if you agree to join up). Then there is what happens to Jordy. This guy took part in a tourney to determine who should have the "honour" of being conscripted to the Wardens. Like Alistair, Jordy seems to think it is some noble order of knights. He has just got married and his wife is pregnant. On those grounds alone, Duncan should have opted for someone else. Surely there are enough unattached people who would make the grade? But no, he recruits Jordy and apparently at that point you have no option for changing you mind. When he sees what the Joining entails and even more what it does to the other guy, Jordy understandably declines to take any further part but Duncan insists on him imbibing the drink, and only at that point does Jordy draw his sword on him. Duncan then kills him. No two ways about it, that was murder. To make matters worse, from what we latter learn from Nathaniel, it seems likely that Jordy's wife will never have been told what became of her husband or received any assistance from the Wardens, even if Duncan hadn't been killed. So likely she would have starved. That is the reality of the Dragon Age universe. The Wardens can justify practically anything they do because they are necessary to stop Blights.
To be honest, what was more of a surprise for me, was at the end of DAI, when the banishment of the Orlesian Wardens on safety grounds (except keeping them never did have any adverse result), suddenly resulted in Wardens across Thedas being shunned, together with Teagan of all people in Trespasser, harking back to the days of Sophie Dryden (who actually took her action at the request of the Bannorn let us not forget) when only 12/13 years previously he and the rest of Ferelden had been saved by the Wardens.
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SilentK
N3
Single-player only =)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
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Single-player only =)
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Post by SilentK on Nov 13, 2016 15:09:18 GMT
Hmm... I like the war table. To me it is a way of keeping track of the story, and reminding me of little things I have done earlier in the game. I liked having a war table in Mass Effect 3 as well, something to balance all the "out-and-about-killing-things". For my part I hope we will see somthing like this in the later games as well.
And if it feels strange to have the big-wig of the Inquisition being out fixing things in the world, then how would be gameplay be? What kind of missions would keep a High-up in the order out questing in the world. From my experience, the more powerful you are the higher chance of you spending your time in meetings.
Todays Plan Breakfast "Meeting with the group that oversees improvements to Skyhols" "Meeting with the group that organizes training for mages" Lunch "Meeting with Cullen, Cassandra and Leliana. What is the latest news from Tevinter" "Meeting with scouting team from Western Approach, what is happening over there?" Dinner *Hopefully Iron Bull is back, I could do with a stressrelief*
Mass Effect Andromeda seems to be fun in that way that you are really supposed to be out there, exploring yourself.One relevant thing for seeing each map at least in DA:I could be closing rifts, the Quizzy is the only one that can do that. I don't really think about this. In SWTOR my all-powerful-JK is still out hopping around plantes fixing things left and right. We want to be out and explore, but also be powerful individuals in the organization. That is what we do at Skyhold.
I guess it would have been more realistic if we had had one footsoldier perhaps for each map. Someone staitioned there with the correct gear. Then we wouldn't have to pretend to be able to skip and hop about the map in the way we do. Just logg into the dwarven soldier stationed at the Hinterland or the elf who ended up in Fallow Mire. More real perhaps, but I am not really sure I would be as intrested in Dragon Age Inquisition Managment as the version we have now.
Edit: Wrote power instead of powerful in the beginning.
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Post by Prince on Nov 14, 2016 18:10:17 GMT
To my mind you can hardly criticise the Warden for anything when you consider the example Duncan gives on how to conduct yourself. (Bear in my also that whilst never revealed in the game, Duncan was in fact a petty thief/murderer who was conscripted by the victim's fiancée). With the exception of the Dalish origin, when you are already affected by the Blight, every other person could conceivably have lived after the events of their origin but Duncan steps in and conscripts them. (This is particularly noticeable in the human noble origin where you could surely have got away without his help and he only gives it if you agree to join up). Then there is what happens to Jordy. This guy took part in a tourney to determine who should have the "honour" of being conscripted to the Wardens. Like Alistair, Jordy seems to think it is some noble order of knights. He has just got married and his wife is pregnant. On those grounds alone, Duncan should have opted for someone else. Surely there are enough unattached people who would make the grade? But no, he recruits Jordy and apparently at that point you have no option for changing you mind. When he sees what the Joining entails and even more what it does to the other guy, Jordy understandably declines to take any further part but Duncan insists on him imbibing the drink, and only at that point does Jordy draw his sword on him. Duncan then kills him. No two ways about it, that was murder. To make matters worse, from what we latter learn from Nathaniel, it seems likely that Jordy's wife will never have been told what became of her husband or received any assistance from the Wardens, even if Duncan hadn't been killed. So likely she would have starved. That is the reality of the Dragon Age universe. The Wardens can justify practically anything they do because they are necessary to stop Blights. Some of those "disturbing" choices in Origins only worked if you were roleplaying an insane psychopathic idiot. It felt very off with someone trying to actually build an army to fight the Darkspawn and was murder knifing people for no good reason. It would have been nice if they had an ending where you got eaten by the Archdemon and the slide simply said "Since Timmy was bloodthirsty mad man, no one rallied to his cause and the Archdemon had a nice appetizer before dining on the whole of Ferelden for a hundred years" if you chose too many of those actions.
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secretrare
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Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 240 Likes: 212
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Post by secretrare on Nov 14, 2016 18:48:21 GMT
Some of those "disturbing" choices in Origins only worked if you were roleplaying an insane psychopathic idiot. It felt very off with someone trying to actually build an army to fight the Darkspawn and was murder knifing people for no good reason. It would have been nice if they had an ending where you got eaten by the Archdemon and the slide simply said "Since Timmy was bloodthirsty mad man, no one rallied to his cause and the Archdemon had a nice appetizer before dining on the whole of Ferelden for a hundred years" if you chose too many of those actions. Duncan is an idiot that's why i never took him as an example to do anything,example of him being an idiot was to conceal the US from Alsitair for no reason despite him being a GW. Not to mention his failure at Ostagar as a commander,because yes that was a lost cause and as a GW he was unable to predict the numbers of Darkspawns much less to keep Cailan safe.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 14, 2016 18:55:45 GMT
Why i should take Duncan as an example and then use it to justify a psychopath warden and also not being able to criticise them? I mean ok you can Rp that but that warden isn't any less of a psychopath,how it get there doesn't matter.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 14, 2016 21:29:30 GMT
The big theme of the DA series is the philosophical question: Do the ends justify the means? I remember Daveth saying "The Wardens do what they must." What they "must" do is sometimes morally questionable but it can be justified in terms of fighting the Blight. The GWs' secrecy is deemed necessary because the GWs feel that if recruits knew the whole truth, no one would volunteer. You run into this question over and over again in the game: do you side with Caradin or Branka? Do you side with the elves or the werewolves? What choice will give you the better force to fight the Blight?
Other options you have during the game aren't as easily justified. Desecrating the Sacred Ashes gets you the cooperation of Kolgrim, but if anyone finds out what you've done, the humans you're trying to rally may turn on you. Not helping save Redcliffe is probably the worst bad option you have. If the game has a weakness, it's that you don't get punished for "bad" choices that don't make sense.
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Post by Prince on Nov 15, 2016 16:38:21 GMT
The big theme of the DA series is the philosophical question: Do the ends justify the means? I remember Daveth saying "The Wardens do what they must." What they "must" do is sometimes morally questionable but it can be justified in terms of fighting the Blight. The GWs' secrecy is deemed necessary because the GWs feel that if recruits knew the whole truth, no one would volunteer. You run into this question over and over again in the game: do you side with Caradin or Branka? Do you side with the elves or the werewolves? What choice will give you the better force to fight the Blight? In DAO The "goodie two shoes" choices almost always bring the greatest benefits, which means that even if you want to make your character an unrepentant bully under the motto "wardens do what they must", s/he's going to make essentially the same choices as a lawful good character.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 15, 2016 17:55:17 GMT
The big theme of the DA series is the philosophical question: Do the ends justify the means? I remember Daveth saying "The Wardens do what they must." What they "must" do is sometimes morally questionable but it can be justified in terms of fighting the Blight. The GWs' secrecy is deemed necessary because the GWs feel that if recruits knew the whole truth, no one would volunteer. You run into this question over and over again in the game: do you side with Caradin or Branka? Do you side with the elves or the werewolves? What choice will give you the better force to fight the Blight? In DAO The "goodie two shoes" choices almost always bring the greatest benefits, which means that even if you want to make your character an unrepentant bully under the motto "wardens do what they must", s/he's going to make essentially the same choices as a lawful good character. Ideally, you should be able to make bad choices which ultimately cause you to fail to defeat the Blight. Choosing to abandon Redcliffe should alienate people from your PC. Choosing the werewolves over the elves? Bad choices should have dire consequences. I would say if your PC goes the psycho route, Alistair and the other companions should be quicker to abandon him/her.
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Post by Prince on Nov 15, 2016 19:37:14 GMT
In DAO The "goodie two shoes" choices almost always bring the greatest benefits, which means that even if you want to make your character an unrepentant bully under the motto "wardens do what they must", s/he's going to make essentially the same choices as a lawful good character. Ideally, you should be able to make bad choices which ultimately cause you to fail to defeat the Blight. Choosing to abandon Redcliffe should alienate people from your PC. Choosing the werewolves over the elves? Bad choices should have dire consequences. I would say if your PC goes the psycho route, Alistair and the other companions should be quicker to abandon him/her. I personally just wish the writers would commit to the mistakes when it comes to choices. I get that they want to protray them as to be perfectly grey/gray, split down the center in terms of moral high ground from the start, but that's just not how it should work since different choices lead to similar outcomes(and there are a lot of them in DA) which makes choices seem underwhelming,at this point why they do not write a game where you don't make choices at all?There is no point in making choices if they don't have consequences and don't lead to different results other than the PC being able to kill more or less people.
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Post by akiza on Dec 1, 2016 5:10:21 GMT
Ideally, you should be able to make bad choices which ultimately cause you to fail to defeat the Blight. Choosing to abandon Redcliffe should alienate people from your PC. Choosing the werewolves over the elves? Bad choices should have dire consequences. I would say if your PC goes the psycho route, Alistair and the other companions should be quicker to abandon him/her. I personally just wish the writers would commit to the mistakes when it comes to choices. I get that they want to protray them as to be perfectly grey/gray, split down the center in terms of moral high ground from the start, but that's just not how it should work since different choices lead to similar outcomes(and there are a lot of them in DA) which makes choices seem underwhelming,at this point why they do not write a game where you don't make choices at all?There is no point in making choices if they don't have consequences and don't lead to different results other than the PC being able to kill more or less people. The choices and their consequences come of as rather forced though. The choice-play system shouldn't be that self-serving, it should enhance the story, not force it to bend into less than believable twists just to give you your daily Big Choice. Making the choices stops being fun when it is just for the sake of having a choice. This was the main issue of DAO.
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Post by lundajfs on Dec 1, 2016 12:13:23 GMT
"my biggest problem with DAI" - It exists.
There are other minor problems but it's existence is undeniably the worst of all problems (edit: of mankind, worst than cancer, war, poverty, and so on, and yes infinitely worse than Hitler, Hitler was a saint compared to DAI dev team).
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eriador117
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by eriador117 on Dec 1, 2016 21:11:26 GMT
I set the long ones up just before I went to bed or logged off for the evening. My main annoyance with the game was the Winter Palace mission where you got penalised for exploring and couldn't open all the darn doors
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Post by deadlydwarf on Dec 1, 2016 22:46:26 GMT
I set the long ones up just before I went to bed or logged off for the evening. My main annoyance with the game was the Winter Palace mission where you got penalised for exploring and couldn't open all the darn doors Try this mod next time: www.nexusmods.com/dragonageinquisition/mods/986/?It's pretty clever; it causes the game to deduct only one halla when you have doors that require three hallas. The result is you can open all halla doors!
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Dec 1, 2016 23:43:05 GMT
I'm replaying Inquisition, nearing the final missions right now and I literally came to this board just to make this topic, but it seems it has already been brought up Yes, it fucking sucks. I kept thinking even through the early Skyhold portions this time "It's not really as bad as I remember" but the problem arises when you're further in and you can just feel how the game designers were reaching to spread the remaining content thin. I can no longer get new scenes out of talking to Varric, I can't investigate any new dialogue with characters, and it's been that way despite having spent 10 hours on additional content just to pass time at the war table before I launch the final missions. There was absolutely no reason to make an operation that lasts more than 3 hours. It's fucking insane. Do the designers realize how long and precious 5 hours of playtime really is? They really encourage you to rack up your time by 5 hours and then a whopping 15 hours in another operation just stalling for time or turning off the game. I don't even think it's a completionist issue. There are just certain opreations I actually want to take on because of the story-content in it and to get the benefits of it, but it just kills any momentum there was left in the game and it's WAY worse than planet scanning or picking up things for strangers in previous BioWare games. Way worse and we don't need something so obviously stalling for more playtime in future games. If ME:A or DA4 has similar systems, restrain them, please. (I hope BioWare employees can forward these concerns)
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Post by deadlydwarf on Dec 1, 2016 23:51:40 GMT
I'm replaying Inquisition, nearing the final missions right now and I literally came to this board just to make this topic, but it seems it has already been brought up Yes, it fucking sucks. I kept thinking even through the early Skyhold portions this time "It's not really as bad as I remember" but the problem arises when you're further in and you can just feel how the game designers were reaching to spread the remaining content thin. I can no longer get new scenes out of talking to Varric, I can't investigate any new dialogue with characters, and it's been that way despite having spent 10 hours on additional content just to pass time at the war table before I launch the final missions. There was absolutely no reason to make an operation that lasts more than 3 hours. It's fucking insane. Do the designers realize how long and precious 5 hours of playtime really is? They really encourage you to rack up your time by 5 hours and then a whopping 15 hours in another operation just stalling for time or turning off the game. I don't even think it's a completionist issue. There are just certain opreations I actually want to take on because of the story-content in it and to get the benefits of it, but it just kills any momentum there was left in the game and it's WAY worse than planet scanning or picking up things for strangers in previous BioWare games. Way worse and we don't need something so obviously stalling for more playtime in future games. If ME:A or DA4 has similar systems, restrain them, please. (I hope BioWare employees can forward these concerns) I think the trick to this game is to NOT be a completionist. Some areas provide important herbs and raw materials, but nothing that forwards the story or is story critical -- Hissing Wastes, Emprises de Lion, etc. If you try to do everything before the showdown with Cory, Cory becomes easier than the Pride Demon you fight at the beginning. And this, even on Nightmare! I've been playing with the Leveling Trial and that has helped, but Cory was way too easy.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 3, 2016 8:43:10 GMT
Mine would be the war table and harvesting. I often end up waiting for the war table mission to complete which means I halt the game for several hours. Harvesting / gathering was another annoyance because of the animations and the ridiculous amount gathered even after it's boosted.
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kumazan
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 772 Likes: 1,553
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kumazan
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Nov 14, 2016 19:51:29 GMT
November 2016
kumazan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by kumazan on Dec 3, 2016 12:28:04 GMT
I'm replaying Inquisition, nearing the final missions right now and I literally came to this board just to make this topic, but it seems it has already been brought up Yes, it fucking sucks. I kept thinking even through the early Skyhold portions this time "It's not really as bad as I remember" but the problem arises when you're further in and you can just feel how the game designers were reaching to spread the remaining content thin. I can no longer get new scenes out of talking to Varric, I can't investigate any new dialogue with characters, and it's been that way despite having spent 10 hours on additional content just to pass time at the war table before I launch the final missions. There was absolutely no reason to make an operation that lasts more than 3 hours. It's fucking insane. Do the designers realize how long and precious 5 hours of playtime really is? They really encourage you to rack up your time by 5 hours and then a whopping 15 hours in another operation just stalling for time or turning off the game. I don't even think it's a completionist issue. There are just certain opreations I actually want to take on because of the story-content in it and to get the benefits of it, but it just kills any momentum there was left in the game and it's WAY worse than planet scanning or picking up things for strangers in previous BioWare games. Way worse and we don't need something so obviously stalling for more playtime in future games. If ME:A or DA4 has similar systems, restrain them, please. (I hope BioWare employees can forward these concerns) I assume the rationale behind that is to make you feel like the operations the Inquisition is carrying out do take time and resources, and aren't done instantly. While I can see that makes sense, the problem is balance, the war table operations combined take a longer time than a full completionist playthrough, now that's fucking insane. 5, 6 even 7h operations are acceptable, but there are several of them which go over the 15h mark, and there's no need for that, at all. I definitely agree that if the war table system is used in one way or another in upcoming games, it has to be worked on, because I shouldn't be forced to manage operations so longer ones are done when I'm about to stop playing for a long while, the game's making me choose between metagaming or screwing my gameplay pacing.
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