Iakus
N7
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2018 13:26:34 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 4, 2018 14:02:31 GMT
Eww. No thanks. Sequel to Andromeda please.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2018 14:16:30 GMT
Eww. No thanks. Sequel to Andromeda please. In broad terms, it resembles how I'd envision a Mass Effect sequel. Devastated Milky Way pulling itself out of a dark age, reconnecting the relay network and exploring how much things have changed with no unified government.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 4, 2018 14:23:14 GMT
Eww. No thanks. Sequel to Andromeda please. In broad terms, it resembles how I'd envision a Mass Effect sequel. Devastated Milky Way pulling itself out of a dark age, reconnecting the relay network and exploring how much things have changed with no unified government. I do see you’re point of view I just don’t share it. It would require a cannonized ending. That would 100% nullify player choice and alienate the fan base. Me included. They need to finish what they’ve started in Andromeda. The OT is done.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2018 14:31:22 GMT
In broad terms, it resembles how I'd envision a Mass Effect sequel. Devastated Milky Way pulling itself out of a dark age, reconnecting the relay network and exploring how much things have changed with no unified government. I do see you’re point of view I just don’t share it. It would require a cannonized ending. That would 100% nullify player choice and alienate the fan base. Me included. They need to finish what they’ve started in Andromeda. The OT is done. Eh, not necessarily. Even the Stargazer scene admits that so much information was lost, the trilogy was essentially legend. Much like Varric's telling of Hawke's story in DA2. He clearly lied about a lot of details, including what happened to Hawke. Besides which, those endings nullified player choice so much, that a lot of the fan base is already alienated Finally, a lot of people want to return to the Milky Way. This video shows how such a story could be done, in a lore friendly way.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 4, 2018 14:38:51 GMT
I do see you’re point of view I just don’t share it. It would require a cannonized ending. That would 100% nullify player choice and alienate the fan base. Me included. They need to finish what they’ve started in Andromeda. The OT is done. Eh, not necessarily. Even the Stargazer scene admits that so much information was lost, the trilogy was essentially legend. Much like Varric's telling of Hawke's story in DA2. He clearly lied about a lot of details, including what happened to Hawke. Besides which, those endings nullified player choice so much, that a lot of the fan base is already alienated Finally, a lot of people want to return to the Milky Way. This video shows how such a story could be done, in a lore friendly way. Well I’m not one of them. I never thought the endings did that and I consider the MW done.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 4, 2018 14:41:57 GMT
Finally, a lot of people want to return to the Milky Way. Yep. I'm one of those a lot of people. As you said, and I've said many times, the guy mentions the details have changed over time. Those details could be anything in the trilogy. The other thing is for someone to know the details of what happened on the Citadel, to tell the first story, someone had to have survived to tell those details.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 4, 2018 14:47:44 GMT
I do see you’re point of view I just don’t share it. It would require a cannonized ending. That would 100% nullify player choice and alienate the fan base. Me included. They need to finish what they’ve started in Andromeda. The OT is done. Eh, not necessarily. Even the Stargazer scene admits that so much information was lost, the trilogy was essentially legend. Much like Varric's telling of Hawke's story in DA2. He clearly lied about a lot of details, including what happened to Hawke. Besides which, those endings nullified player choice so much, that a lot of the fan base is already alienated Finally, a lot of people want to return to the Milky Way. This video shows how such a story could be done, in a lore friendly way. For DA2, it's clearly implied from the beginning, literally, that we are taking Varric's word on the Mage-Templer conflict - from the opening sequence where you and your sibling meet a fire breathing Flemeth to Varric taking on a houseful of baddies with just Bianca and his glorious chest hair. Conversely, the Stargazer scene in Mass Effect 3 only occurs if the player hangs around long enough after the endings are completed and appears more like a Easter Egg with Buzz Aldrin narrating. As for the second point, I'm assuming that was just some snark with the including winking emoji and all as I didn't feel my choice was nullified nor did I feel alienated. Finally, I don't really want to return to the Milky Way, that story is done, whereas BioWare has a story to finish in Andromeda.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 4, 2018 14:54:39 GMT
Eh, not necessarily. Even the Stargazer scene admits that so much information was lost, the trilogy was essentially legend. Much like Varric's telling of Hawke's story in DA2. He clearly lied about a lot of details, including what happened to Hawke. Besides which, those endings nullified player choice so much, that a lot of the fan base is already alienated Finally, a lot of people want to return to the Milky Way. This video shows how such a story could be done, in a lore friendly way. For DA2, it's clearly implied from the beginning, literally, that we are taking Varric's word on the Mage-Templer conflict - from the opening sequence where you and your sibling meet a fire breathing Flemeth to Varric taking on a houseful of baddies with just Bianca and his glorious chest hair. Conversely, the Stargazer scene in Mass Effect 3 only occurs if the player hangs around long enough after the endings are completed and appears more like a Easter Egg with Buzz Aldrin narrating. As for the second point, I'm assuming that was just some snark with the including winking emoji and all as I didn't feel my choice was nullified nor did I feel alienated. Finally, I don't really want to return to the Milky Way, that story is done, whereas BioWare has a story to finish in Andromeda. DA2 demonstrates the difference between knowing what the hell you are doing with the story. AS opposed to ME3 where they were just winging it, and decided at practically the last minute that "The Shepard" has become a legend The second point, yes it is snark, but with a bit of truth to it. The fan base is very much split. MEA did not bring them together. Third, a lot of people DO want to return to the Milky Way. If not for Shepard's story, then because there are so many MORE stories to be told there.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 4, 2018 15:01:19 GMT
Eh, not necessarily. Even the Stargazer scene admits that so much information was lost, the trilogy was essentially legend. Much like Varric's telling of Hawke's story in DA2. He clearly lied about a lot of details, including what happened to Hawke. Besides which, those endings nullified player choice so much, that a lot of the fan base is already alienated Finally, a lot of people want to return to the Milky Way. This video shows how such a story could be done, in a lore friendly way. For DA2, it's clearly implied from the beginning, literally, that we are taking Varric's word on the Mage-Templer conflict - from the opening sequence where you and your sibling meet a fire breathing Flemeth to Varric taking on a houseful of baddies with just Bianca and his glorious chest hair. Conversely, the Stargazer scene in Mass Effect 3 only occurs if the player hangs around long enough after the endings are completed and appears more like a Easter Egg with Buzz Aldrin narrating. As for the second point, I'm assuming that was just some snark with the including winking emoji and all as I didn't feel my choice was nullified nor did I feel alienated. Finally, I don't really want to return to the Milky Way, that story is done, whereas BioWare has a story to finish in Andromeda. Couldn’t agree more. The MW is done sure there could be a bit more to explore but not without a massive time jump and likely rewrite. No thanks.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 4, 2018 15:18:00 GMT
For DA2, it's clearly implied from the beginning, literally, that we are taking Varric's word on the Mage-Templer conflict - from the opening sequence where you and your sibling meet a fire breathing Flemeth to Varric taking on a houseful of baddies with just Bianca and his glorious chest hair. Conversely, the Stargazer scene in Mass Effect 3 only occurs if the player hangs around long enough after the endings are completed and appears more like a Easter Egg with Buzz Aldrin narrating. As for the second point, I'm assuming that was just some snark with the including winking emoji and all as I didn't feel my choice was nullified nor did I feel alienated. Finally, I don't really want to return to the Milky Way, that story is done, whereas BioWare has a story to finish in Andromeda. DA2 demonstrates the difference between knowing what the hell you are doing with the story. AS opposed to ME3 where they were just winging it, and decided at practically the last minute that "The Shepard" has become a legend The second point, yes it is snark, but with a bit of truth to it. The fan base is very much split. MEA did not bring them together. Third, a lot of people DO want to return to the Milky Way. If not for Shepard's story, then because there are so many MORE stories to be told there. I don't know if it's a lot. You can't even get a consensus among BioWare fans on a fan-run site, so I don't know how you can get a pulse on the gaming public at large. There are some that hated the endings and never revisited the game, some that hated the original endings but loved what the EC did for them and were content, some that were ok with the original endings and didn't like the EC, some that liked or didn't like both...the variations in enthusiasm for both Mass Effect 3 and the idea of returning to the Milky Way are not very consistent. If they return to the Milky Way it would have to be post-Shepard and it would have to be pretty damn clever to not feel like another SciFi trope like Star Trek and it's alternate timeline or the idea it was "all a dream" or a "legend". If you keep doing that, how can people take your universes seriously after a while? I just don't see an obvious future in Mass Effect continuing in the Milky Way while Andromeda still has room to change and grow with how that story is now.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 4, 2018 16:44:46 GMT
As much as I disliked Andromeda, I don't want to go back to the MW either. I definitely want no part of an attempt to clean up where we left off to allow that story to continue.
At the same time though, I understand why people want to go back there. There was so much depth and lore to in the MW, it just makes that galaxy more interesting. I've said this many times before, Andromeda is shallow when it comes to this. Especially given the fact that the writers had a blank slate where they could have done literally anything they wanted.
Just comparing ME1 and ME1 alone to Andromeda, which game built the better more interesting galaxy to tell stories in? Do you know as much about Kett and Angarans as you did about Quarians, Salarians, Turians, Krogans and Asari? People complain about your squadmates being walking codexes, but it made for a far more interesting universe that hooked me immediately. There were overarching storylines outside what you were doing like the Genophage, the Rachni, the Quarians trying to get back home, etc.
If you were only going to add one new race, that race should have been fleshed out beyond belief. But the for all intents and purposes they went the amnesia route, just without the flashbacks that filled in the blanks. The Jardaan were left as too much of an unknown. It's like ME1 without Sovereign ever showing himself and laying some groundwork. You just beat Saren and the game is over, the reapers still a whisper and a myth. Huge difference.
Ironically and sadly, the one thread from Andromeda that everyone seems most interested in its resolution is the Benefactor, which is technically a MW story line. That should be a secondary concern to the main plot threads, not the most interesting thing to come out of the game.
That's why I say they need to fast forward and give Andromeda some history.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 4, 2018 17:47:37 GMT
Interesting but I don't want to go back to fighting Reapers. It's true, the MW has several billion stars in it, and so there are likely other races never encountered (through locked relays, for example), but how would we even get to them? All the relays we've seen have been destroyed. It's some decent conjecture but I ultimately don't see it as very likely.
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 4, 2018 17:58:40 GMT
DA2 demonstrates the difference between knowing what the hell you are doing with the story. AS opposed to ME3 where they were just winging it, and decided at practically the last minute that "The Shepard" has become a legend The second point, yes it is snark, but with a bit of truth to it. The fan base is very much split. MEA did not bring them together. Third, a lot of people DO want to return to the Milky Way. If not for Shepard's story, then because there are so many MORE stories to be told there. I don't know if it's a lot. You can't even get a consensus among BioWare fans on a fan-run site, so I don't know how you can get a pulse on the gaming public at large. There are some that hated the endings and never revisited the game, some that hated the original endings but loved what the EC did for them and were content, some that were ok with the original endings and didn't like the EC, some that liked or didn't like both...the variations in enthusiasm for both Mass Effect 3 and the idea of returning to the Milky Way are not very consistent. If they return to the Milky Way it would have to be post-Shepard and it would have to be pretty damn clever to not feel like another SciFi trope like Star Trek and it's alternate timeline or the idea it was "all a dream" or a "legend". If you keep doing that, how can people take your universes seriously after a while? I just don't see an obvious future in Mass Effect continuing in the Milky Way while Andromeda still has room to change and grow with how that story is now. Yeah and it needs to be right where it left off. No time jumps.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 4, 2018 18:11:55 GMT
I don't know if it's a lot. You can't even get a consensus among BioWare fans on a fan-run site, so I don't know how you can get a pulse on the gaming public at large. There are some that hated the endings and never revisited the game, some that hated the original endings but loved what the EC did for them and were content, some that were ok with the original endings and didn't like the EC, some that liked or didn't like both...the variations in enthusiasm for both Mass Effect 3 and the idea of returning to the Milky Way are not very consistent. If they return to the Milky Way it would have to be post-Shepard and it would have to be pretty damn clever to not feel like another SciFi trope like Star Trek and it's alternate timeline or the idea it was "all a dream" or a "legend". If you keep doing that, how can people take your universes seriously after a while? I just don't see an obvious future in Mass Effect continuing in the Milky Way while Andromeda still has room to change and grow with how that story is now. Yeah and it needs to be right where it left off. No time jumps. I can see a minimal time jump but no too long....maybe something long enough to see the Andromeda Initiative more settled but it's still Scott/Sara's story. They need to still wrap up the benefactor, Ellen Ryder, the Remnant/Jardaan, and the Kett. They could do that in 1 game with a relatively new team with a few holdovers.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 4, 2018 18:45:01 GMT
Yeah and it needs to be right where it left off. No time jumps. I can see a minimal time jump but no too long....maybe something long enough to see the Andromeda Initiative more settled but it's still Scott/Sara's story. They need to still wrap up the benefactor, Ellen Ryder, the Remnant/Jardaan, and the Kett. They could do that in 1 game with a relatively new team with a few holdovers. Actually, I saw elsewhere that ME2 was considered to be the MET game that focused on character development whereas ME1 was about the main plot. Perhaps something along those lines could be true of MEA2.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 4, 2018 18:54:54 GMT
I'm okay going back to the MW and canonizing a ending, the idea above don't really buy as the entire point of the citadel is it could activate and control all relays at once, so missed relays seems far fetched to me. That being said, I'd rather they just continue in Andromeda. A minimal time jump, and while I'd prefer they ditch the ryders partly because I don't like them and partly because I don't like the SAM gimmick, but I wouldn't be too bothered if they stuck with them. But they are kind of over powered by the end of the game, not sure where you go from there without some lame reset excuse like in ME2.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 4, 2018 19:02:26 GMT
I can see a minimal time jump but no too long....maybe something long enough to see the Andromeda Initiative more settled but it's still Scott/Sara's story. They need to still wrap up the benefactor, Ellen Ryder, the Remnant/Jardaan, and the Kett. They could do that in 1 game with a relatively new team with a few holdovers. Actually, I saw elsewhere that ME2 was considered to be the MET game that focused on character development whereas ME1 was about the main plot. Perhaps something along those lines could be true of MEA2. I think that's a distinct possibility. My own preference is to have the same 1 to 2 year jump that occurred between ME1 to ME2 so, by then, those that remain on your team and those that chose to go elsewhere is already decided and you are essentially catching up to what happened in the beginning of the new game. From there, you can start expanding deepening the characters as the foundation in Heleus has already been established with the previous game. With the Archon defeated and the Kett threat seemingly abated for the moment, Ryder can turn their attention to the Benefactor and why it was imperative for them to remain anonymous, the true purposes of the Jardaan and nature of the opposition, etc
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Post by cypherj on Apr 4, 2018 19:04:04 GMT
Even though I picked destroy, the easiest ending to canonize and continue that story would be Control. The reapers built the relays and the Citadel to being with, and there would be reapers in every system theoretically, or at minimum all the systems they were attacking at the time. Just have the reapers rebuild the relays in the systems they're stuck in. The video makes it more difficult than it has to be.
Having said that, as I stated earlier I have no interest in anything like that.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 4, 2018 19:07:37 GMT
I'm okay going back to the MW and canonizing a ending, the idea above don't really buy as the entire point of the citadel is it could activate and control all relays at once, so missed relays seems far fetched to me. That being said, I'd rather they just continue in Andromeda. A minimal time jump, and while I'd prefer they ditch the ryders partly because I don't like them and partly because I don't like the SAM gimmick, but I wouldn't be too bothered if they stuck with them. But they are kind of over powered by the end of the game, not sure where you go from there without some lame reset excuse like in ME2. I think some kind of reset for the Ryders is more workable in Andromeda than it is in the OT. Shepard becomes an unstoppable supersoldier by nothing more than their own skill tree, whereas Ryder is augmented externally. The first game establishes that Ryder is inextricably tied to SAM, but that's not an unbeatable plot device to work around, especially considering how much of a liability that proves to be right before the endgame. Like, something is done to scale back the implant, forcing the player to actually pick and commit to a class this time around, which would then allow each class to get new-fangled abilities for a fresh new game. And really, it takes no effort at all to just make SAM shut the hell up and have our PC do some of the deducing. Hopefully environmental hazards would no longer be a thing either.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 4, 2018 19:10:38 GMT
I don't see why they would have to reset Ryder. If you transferred a level 30 Shepard from Mass Effect 2 into Mass Effect 3, you started at level 30. Just do that again while throwing in some more abilities.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 4, 2018 19:24:04 GMT
I don't see why they would have to reset Ryder. If you transferred a level 30 Shepard from Mass Effect 2 into Mass Effect 3, you started at level 30. Just do that again while throwing in some more abilities. That's not really the same though. The transition between 2 and 3 benefits from 2 having a very simplified skill tree, and a very limited set of abilities for Shepard. The transition between 1 and 2 wouldn't have been so easy. My Shepard was level 60 with a wide array of skills, even if you discount the ones that get scrapped later, like the weapons trees. Ryder would be more difficult. My Ryder is 132 with all skills unlocked.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 4, 2018 19:27:41 GMT
Even though I picked destroy, the easiest ending to canonize and continue that story would be Control. The reapers built the relays and the Citadel to being with, and there would be reapers in every system theoretically, or at minimum all the systems they were attacking at the time. Just have the reapers rebuild the relays in the systems they're stuck in. The video makes it more difficult than it has to be. Having said that, as I stated earlier I have no interest in anything like that. I would also have no interest in that because, fuck the Reapers, they need to die. Others disagree, and some weirdos (j/k) even choose Synthesis or Refusal. Even if you could make Shepard have the Reapers wander off, or everyone turn less green, or even rebuild things, it would take time. I can't see any of that happening in less than a decade. I can't even imagine why Tali would ever leave Rannoch (assuming she survived) once she was able to live there. Or why Garrus wouldn't participate in rebuilding Palaven (if he's alive). Or why Wrex and Grunt wouldn't be part of rebuilding Tuchanka (if they're alive). Personally, I'd try to find a way around the relays, or at least make our own that somehow doesn't rely on Reaper Tech. Just in case. If I were to conceive of another MW game, the only realistic threat out there are the Leviathan. They want to be in control again. Given that Shepard knows they're around (assuming the Leviathan DLC counts as a given), I can't see why a Control ending wouldn't have Shepard making sure they don't threaten the galaxy. This just, to me, illustrates the problems with having multiple endings and optional DLC.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 4, 2018 19:36:48 GMT
I think the Milky Way as a setting would actually benefit from a reduction in the expansiveness of the relay network, like, post-war, there would be some key relays up and running, but many others would have gone dark, since companion relays in less populated systems would have no hope of being repaired anytime soon.
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Apr 4, 2018 19:41:00 GMT
I'm okay going back to the MW and canonizing a ending, the idea above don't really buy as the entire point of the citadel is it could activate and control all relays at once, so missed relays seems far fetched to me. That being said, I'd rather they just continue in Andromeda. A minimal time jump, and while I'd prefer they ditch the ryders partly because I don't like them and partly because I don't like the SAM gimmick, but I wouldn't be too bothered if they stuck with them. But they are kind of over powered by the end of the game, not sure where you go from there without some lame reset excuse like in ME2. I think some kind of reset for the Ryders is more workable in Andromeda than it is in the OT. Shepard becomes an unstoppable supersoldier by nothing more than their own skill tree, whereas Ryder is augmented externally. The first game establishes that Ryder is inextricably tied to SAM, but that's not an unbeatable plot device to work around, especially considering how much of a liability that proves to be right before the endgame. Like, something is done to scale back the implant, forcing the player to actually pick and commit to a class this time around, which would then allow each class to get new-fangled abilities for a fresh new game. And really, it takes no effort at all to just make SAM shut the hell up and have our PC do some of the deducing. Hopefully environmental hazards would no longer be a thing either. Good point, it wouldn't feel very contrived. The loss of Sam may require you start over.
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