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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2018 18:59:20 GMT
Tell me of a time when someone didn't go up in arms about something a game dev (particularly one working under EA umbrella) has said - now THAT would be shocking
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 20, 2018 19:09:40 GMT
Tell me of a time when someone didn't go up in arms about something a game dev (particularly one working under EA umbrella) has said - now THAT would be shocking They kinda remind me of angry mob from Monty Python that only looks for a witch dev to throw rocks at argue with
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Post by Wulfram on Jun 20, 2018 19:25:23 GMT
Don't think it is. They chose diverse stories based on real (if not common) events. Their choice. Eh, the main objection with BFV, as I understand it, isn't to telling stories based on real people, or even on plausible people - that was in BF1 after all (though some people did object then). They're objecting to women characters being able to choose any class in any army in the multiplayer, including in armies that didn't allow women in combat roles. The historical accuracy rebuttal really doesn't work - women just didn't serve (openly) in the British and German armies in WW2, as the game depicts. On the other hand, the argument that BF multiplayer has never been something that could be mistaken for a documentary is strong and largely rebuts the complaints
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Post by smilesja on Jun 20, 2018 19:26:59 GMT
If the campaign did something like this, I’d understand but this is the multiplayer we’re talking about.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 20, 2018 19:47:27 GMT
If the campaign did something like this, I’d understand but this is the multiplayer we’re talking about. And? With name tags like iFcukBitches and RideMyD00ng in MP we’re going to worry about historical accuracy?
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 20, 2018 19:56:34 GMT
If the campaign did something like this, I’d understand but this is the multiplayer we’re talking about. And? With name tags like iFcukBitches and RideMyD00ng in MP we’re going to worry about historical accuracy? Ah, classics.
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 20, 2018 20:19:38 GMT
As little as I care about this whole Battlefield controversy I can see how those comments would piss people off. Calling people uneducated for saying that is not historically accurate to portray women fighting on the front lines is not only insulting but as far as I can see is blatantly wrong, now I will admit I am not a huge WW2 history buff and there are probably a lot of gaps in my knowledge however as far as I know there are no reports of women fighting on the front lines (especially none with prosthetic robot arms) except in Russia, and while I don't really know which country the soldiers show are supposed to be fighting for I am fairly certain they aren't Russian. While I don't particularly care if EA want's to rewrite history to make WW2 more progressive in regards to gender representation I don't think you can still market the game as "historically accurate" and call those who question the claim "uneducated". Honestly I think the comment was made specifically to piss people off just so they can point at the backlash and go "look at all these people who hate women!"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2018 20:29:07 GMT
As little as I care about this whole Battlefield controversy I can see how those comments would piss people off. Calling people uneducated for saying that is not historically accurate to portray women fighting on the front lines is not only insulting but as far as I can see is blatantly wrong, now I will admit I am not a huge WW2 history buff and there are probably a lot of gaps in my knowledge however as far as I know there are no reports of women fighting on the front lines (especially none with prosthetic robot arms) except in Russia, and while I don't really know which country the soldiers show are supposed to be fighting for I am fairly certain they aren't Russian. While I don't particularly care if EA want's to rewrite history to make WW2 more progressive in regards to gender representation I don't think you can still market the game as "historically accurate" and call those who question the claim "uneducated". Honestly I think the comment was made specifically to piss people off just so they can point at the backlash and go "look at all these people who hate women!" There were also the various resistance movements, which I believe we are following one in the campaign, that had women fighting on the front lines. Just letting you know since you said you didn't.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2018 20:44:21 GMT
If the campaign did something like this, I’d understand but this is the multiplayer we’re talking about. And? With name tags like iFcukBitches and RideMyD00ng in MP we’re going to worry about historical accuracy? Out of curiosity: what were the most... 'interesting' names you've stumbled upon when playing some sort of multiplayer? Mine was probably 'IThotSheWasEighteen'.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 20, 2018 20:47:40 GMT
As little as I care about this whole Battlefield controversy I can see how those comments would piss people off. Calling people uneducated for saying that is not historically accurate to portray women fighting on the front lines is not only insulting but as far as I can see is blatantly wrong, now I will admit I am not a huge WW2 history buff and there are probably a lot of gaps in my knowledge however as far as I know there are no reports of women fighting on the front lines (especially none with prosthetic robot arms) except in Russia, and while I don't really know which country the soldiers show are supposed to be fighting for I am fairly certain they aren't Russian. While I don't particularly care if EA want's to rewrite history to make WW2 more progressive in regards to gender representation I don't think you can still market the game as "historically accurate" and call those who question the claim "uneducated". Honestly I think the comment was made specifically to piss people off just so they can point at the backlash and go "look at all these people who hate women!" It’s funny how people didn’t make a big deal of historical accuracy until you could play as female soldiers. To me it’s something that people are using to thrash EA.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 20, 2018 20:48:57 GMT
And? With name tags like iFcukBitches and RideMyD00ng in MP we’re going to worry about historical accuracy? Out of curiosity: what were the most... 'interesting' names you've stumbled upon when playing some sort of multiplayer? Mine was probably 'IThotSheWasEighteen'. Mine was your mom.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2018 20:52:29 GMT
It’s funny how people didn’t make a big deal of historical accuracy until you could play as female soldiers. To me it’s something that people are using to thrash EA. Eh, it's a bit like talking about 'realism' in fantasy titles that are roughly inspired by IRL cultures or times. Dragons? Magic? Dwarves? Yea, gimme! Bit more of an egalitarian society where women or PoC can wield considerable power? TOO UNREALISTIC!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2018 20:55:41 GMT
And? With name tags like iFcukBitches and RideMyD00ng in MP we’re going to worry about historical accuracy? Out of curiosity: what were the most... 'interesting' names you've stumbled upon when playing some sort of multiplayer? Mine was probably 'IThotSheWasEighteen'. One of the ones that I still remember even a decade later was A Innocent Girl. I was playing Halo 3 so the notifications the game gives you would show things like "You splattered A Innocent Girl" or "A Innocent Girl killed you".
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 20, 2018 20:57:23 GMT
As little as I care about this whole Battlefield controversy I can see how those comments would piss people off. Calling people uneducated for saying that is not historically accurate to portray women fighting on the front lines is not only insulting but as far as I can see is blatantly wrong, now I will admit I am not a huge WW2 history buff and there are probably a lot of gaps in my knowledge however as far as I know there are no reports of women fighting on the front lines (especially none with prosthetic robot arms) except in Russia, and while I don't really know which country the soldiers show are supposed to be fighting for I am fairly certain they aren't Russian. While I don't particularly care if EA want's to rewrite history to make WW2 more progressive in regards to gender representation I don't think you can still market the game as "historically accurate" and call those who question the claim "uneducated". Honestly I think the comment was made specifically to piss people off just so they can point at the backlash and go "look at all these people who hate women!" There were also the various resistance movements, which I believe we are following one in the campaign, that had women fighting on the front lines. Just letting you know since you said you didn't. Did not think it looked like a resistance cell either, looked more like a front line professional army, but then again I can't say I payed too much attention
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 20, 2018 21:03:49 GMT
It’s funny how people didn’t make a big deal of historical accuracy until you could play as female soldiers. To me it’s something that people are using to thrash EA. Eh, it's a bit like talking about 'realism' in fantasy titles that are roughly inspired by IRL cultures or times. Dragons? Magic? Dwarves? Yea, gimme! Bit more of an egalitarian society where women or PoC can wield considerable power? TOO UNREALISTIC! Thing about that is that in those fantasy titles those societies weren't actually based on real world cultures and events so it is easier to make concessions when it comes to suspense of disbelief. However if you are going to be marketing something as historically accurate you would expect some effort to tell events as they were rather than change them to appeal to the sensibilities of people today.
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 20, 2018 21:08:47 GMT
As little as I care about this whole Battlefield controversy I can see how those comments would piss people off. Calling people uneducated for saying that is not historically accurate to portray women fighting on the front lines is not only insulting but as far as I can see is blatantly wrong, now I will admit I am not a huge WW2 history buff and there are probably a lot of gaps in my knowledge however as far as I know there are no reports of women fighting on the front lines (especially none with prosthetic robot arms) except in Russia, and while I don't really know which country the soldiers show are supposed to be fighting for I am fairly certain they aren't Russian. While I don't particularly care if EA want's to rewrite history to make WW2 more progressive in regards to gender representation I don't think you can still market the game as "historically accurate" and call those who question the claim "uneducated". Honestly I think the comment was made specifically to piss people off just so they can point at the backlash and go "look at all these people who hate women!" It’s funny how people didn’t make a big deal of historical accuracy until you could play as female soldiers. To me it’s something that people are using to thrash EA. I think people are more pushing back because they see it as political correctness gone mad, women and minorities don't need to be shoehorned into everything for the sake of equality. If the developers truly wanted to tell a story about badass women in WW2 and not just manufacture faux outrage so they can pretend that they are standing up for women's rights in an oppressive culture then why not tell the story of one of the Russian snipers? That is something that actually did happen in WW2 and would actually be an interesting story. Again, whatever DICE decides to do with the Battlefield franchise has no impact on me whatsoever and I don't really care, however if you are going to argue in Battlefront's favor at least stop trying to miss character the arguments of the other side making out that the only reason they are upset is either because they hate women and women protagonists or they hate EA and just want to shit on everything they do.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 20, 2018 21:41:51 GMT
It’s funny how people didn’t make a big deal of historical accuracy until you could play as female soldiers. To me it’s something that people are using to thrash EA. I think people are more pushing back because they see it as political correctness gone mad, women and minorities don't need to be shoehorned into everything for the sake of equality. If the developers truly wanted to tell a story about badass women in WW2 and not just manufacture faux outrage so they can pretend that they are standing up for women's rights in an oppressive culture then why not tell the story of one of the Russian snipers? That is something that actually did happen in WW2 and would actually be an interesting story. Again, whatever DICE decides to do with the Battlefield franchise has no impact on me whatsoever and I don't really care, however if you are going to argue in Battlefront's favor at least stop trying to miss character the arguments of the other side making out that the only reason they are upset is either because they hate women and women protagonists or they hate EA and just want to shit on everything they do. What is shoehorning? We don’t even know the context behind the campaign missions and as it’s mentioned above, multiplayer isn’t some bastion of historical accuracy based on habits gamers do. While I agree it’s a problem but only to a degree. People are seemingly being outraged when ever any female or minority gets attention.
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Post by Quickpaw on Jun 20, 2018 22:00:48 GMT
And I feel compelled to point out, yet again... If it's not "shoehorned in," it never happens. You realize how much pushback against quality poc depiction there's been in the last half-century? Oh, I'm SO SORRY that only 95% of all media ever is marketed towards you these days (white heterosexual male gamer), instead of the 99% you've enjoyed for most of history. (I say as a white heterosexual male gamer)
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 20, 2018 22:12:58 GMT
What is shoehorning? We don’t even know the context behind the campaign missions and as it’s mentioned above, multiplayer isn’t some bastion of historical accuracy based on habits gamers do. While I agree it’s a problem but only to a degree. People are seemingly being outraged when ever any female or minority gets attention. What? Women or minorities TOO want to play games like Battlefield or there's large enough crowd that enjoys playing as female avatars that it's just sensible to give them that option? Inconceivable! What I find interesting is that not so long ago there was (still is?) a fairly large crowd that defended lack of representation or stereotypical portrayal of, say, women with "hey - this is what sells! This is what gamers want and so the games will provide it" and so on.... but now that game companies are opening up to new clientele and want to attract them or just want to make things more varied and interesting, suddenly it's not about what 'sells' (now it's considered pandering or selling out) but about 'accuracy' or 'realism' or 'shoehorning for the sake of equality'. 'Weird' how tables have turned now that it's apparent that people other than white straight male gamer enjoy playing games too and enjoy it even more so if games give them options they rarely had before...
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 20, 2018 22:13:33 GMT
I think people are more pushing back because they see it as political correctness gone mad, women and minorities don't need to be shoehorned into everything for the sake of equality. If the developers truly wanted to tell a story about badass women in WW2 and not just manufacture faux outrage so they can pretend that they are standing up for women's rights in an oppressive culture then why not tell the story of one of the Russian snipers? That is something that actually did happen in WW2 and would actually be an interesting story. Again, whatever DICE decides to do with the Battlefield franchise has no impact on me whatsoever and I don't really care, however if you are going to argue in Battlefront's favor at least stop trying to miss character the arguments of the other side making out that the only reason they are upset is either because they hate women and women protagonists or they hate EA and just want to shit on everything they do. What is shoehorning? We don’t even know the context behind the campaign missions and as it’s mentioned above, multiplayer isn’t some bastion of historical accuracy based on habits gamers do. While I agree it’s a problem but only to a degree. People are seemingly being outraged when ever any female or minority gets attention. To place something where it doesn't fit or is incredibly out of place, sure we don't know the context behind the campaign missions but what context could really make sense from a historical perspective?
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 20, 2018 22:17:46 GMT
If it was portraying woman as being on the frontlines of D-Day or something, or as frontline soldiers in formal armies generally in that era, then I would be a bit annoyed as someone who gets persnickety when it comes to history.
However, my understanding is that this story is about a woman part of a resistance group in Norway (I haven’t really been following this)? That’s the sort of unregulated environment I’m okay with this sort of story taking place, so I’m not bothered at all. It’s firmly in the realm of “plausible even if it didn’t happen often”.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2018 22:19:28 GMT
What is shoehorning? We don’t even know the context behind the campaign missions and as it’s mentioned above, multiplayer isn’t some bastion of historical accuracy based on habits gamers do. While I agree it’s a problem but only to a degree. People are seemingly being outraged when ever any female or minority gets attention. To place something where it doesn't fit or is incredibly out of place, sure we don't know the context behind the campaign missions but what context could really make sense from a historical perspective? Following one of the resistance movements like I said. Doesn't the campaign take place in Norway? They had a big resistance movement that had some women cross the gender roles and actually fight, even if their contributions were mostly ignored after the war.
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 20, 2018 22:25:02 GMT
And I feel compelled to point out, yet again... If it's not "shoehorned in," it never happens. You realize how much pushback against quality poc depiction there's been in the last half-century? Oh, I'm SO SORRY that only 95% of all media ever is marketed towards you these days (white heterosexual male gamer), instead of the 99% you've enjoyed for most of history. (I say as a white heterosexual male gamer) Did you just assume my race and gender you racist sexist bigot? Sure, half a century ago they did have a problem with depictions of minorities but I hate to break it to you but we have moved on since then, nowdays very few people have a problem with a minority lead and strong women and honestly you are more likely to cop flak for NOT being diverse enough even when your game is set in 15th century Bohemia
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 20, 2018 22:25:56 GMT
And? With name tags like iFcukBitches and RideMyD00ng in MP we’re going to worry about historical accuracy? Out of curiosity: what were the most... 'interesting' names you've stumbled upon when playing some sort of multiplayer? Mine was probably 'IThotSheWasEighteen'. Oh without a doubt the most interesting ones were the names that crashed the admins tool when you tried to ban them. Was a bunch of punctuation like \\%{%]$$_|~~^]}}_|$&&&$).
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Post by Quickpaw on Jun 20, 2018 22:43:09 GMT
Did you just assume my race and gender you racist sexist bigot? Sure, half a century ago they did have a problem with depictions of minorities but I hate to break it to you but we have moved on since then, nowdays very few people have a problem with a minority lead and strong women and honestly you are more likely to cop flak for NOT being diverse enough even when your game is set in 15th century Bohemia Uh, NO IT'S NOT BETTER. It's just not as socially acceptable. Are you seeing the backlash to the new Star Wars movies? (I dislike TLJ myself, but not for "wha wha SWJs!" reasons) Whitewashing still happens, and is still defended up the wahzoo. I say again: if a particular concept or minority isn't "forced," they'll never happen. Quality ethnic and women's parts are STILL scrutinized to the point of abuse, despite their relative rarity in media, this one especially.
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