githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Aug 5, 2018 1:46:44 GMT
The most votes so far:
"Independent Circle, governed by themselves, with the right to leave after training."
Does't Thedas already have this more or less in Tevinter?
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 1:57:26 GMT
1. No, I spoke about the non-mages, but of course, you don't understand. No problem... 2. So: a possible danger is enough reason to lobotomize anyone? So: you would agree to lobotomize the paranoid persons. Paranoia is dangerous, isn't? Remember Meredith and Loghain. 3. Paranoia. They able to resist the demons. 4. Paranoia. Blood magic has many other benefits (track magic and reveal a possession for example), not just mind control. 1.) The problem is poor usage of English. You need to please be clearer in your words. 2.) Meredith and Loghain do not attract demons, and their crimes are not related to use of magic: They are not mages. 3.) What makes them "able" to resist? The fact that you claim so doesn't make it so. We saw this full well with Uldred and all the mages in the Circle towers. And in DA2, as Hawke so aptly puts it "I'd like to go one week without meeting an insane mage." 4.) How does blood magic reveal a possession? Anders isn't a blood mage, and he could detect whether or not someone was possessed. And we're not certain if Merrill used a specific blood magic spell in order to detect and see if someone was possessed. 2. They have army and Meredith animated sculptures. If this not magic, I really don't know what exactly is the magic. And no matter, magic or not: people just died – because of their paranoia. And Meredith took that blighted power because she tempted by her paranoia. Strong emotion, remember? Everyone can be dangerous. The question is: how far you go to protect the people from themselves... "How big would your Gallow be?" And how many Tranquils would inside? By the way: Pharamond didn't attract demons when he possessed. 3. Uldred was a Senior Enchanter, not an apprentice – but Jowan was an apprentice blood mage who was not possessed and was restrained even in the most dangerous situation. Wynne's apprentice was not possessed, also in a dangerous position. You never can be sure... but the freedom isn't about your paranoia. 4. Merrill used blood magic.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 2:05:57 GMT
The most votes so far: "Independent Circle, governed by themselves, with the right to leave after training." Does't Thedas already have this more or less in Tevinter?Of course: Loghain sold his people to slavery, and Celene sacrificed elves for power... And the Chantry sacrificed people for a false sense of security.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 5, 2018 2:23:48 GMT
1.) The problem is poor usage of English. You need to please be clearer in your words.
2.) Meredith and Loghain do not attract demons, and their crimes are not related to use of magic: They are not mages.
3.) What makes them "able" to resist? The fact that you claim so doesn't make it so. We saw this full well with Uldred and all the mages in the Circle towers. And in DA2, as Hawke so aptly puts it "I'd like to go one week without meeting an insane mage."
4.) How does blood magic reveal a possession? Anders isn't a blood mage, and he could detect whether or not someone was possessed. And we're not certain if Merrill used a specific blood magic spell in order to detect and see if someone was possessed. 2. They have army and Meredith animated sculptures. If this not magic, I really don't know what exactly is the magic. And no matter, magic or not: people just died – because of their paranoia. And Meredith took that blighted power because she tempted by her paranoia. Strong emotion, remember? Everyone can be dangerous. The question is: how far you go to protect the people from themselves... "How big would your Gallow be?" And how many Tranquils would inside? By the way: Pharamond didn't attract demons when he possessed. 3. Uldred was a Senior Enchanter, not an apprentice – but Jowan was an apprentice blood mage who was not possessed and was restrained even in the most dangerous situation. Wynne's apprentice was not possessed, also in a dangerous position. You never can be sure... but the freedom isn't about your paranoia. 4. Merrill used blood magic. The animated sculptures..we're not exactly sure what that is. Remember that Meredith is no mage. If it's a feature of red lyrium, it's not the same as magic. At best, it's a more malignant form of what Valta did at the end of The Descent. Meredith did not take the power of the Blight because she was tempted by paranoia. Meredith certainly didn't know the red lyrium was powered by Blight. She only knew the sword was made of lyrium. For all we know, Meredith never knew about Bartrand's insanity until Hawke told her of it just before the boss battle. Mages are a danger because they are possessed by demons. This is inherent in being a mage. You can't ignore it just because mages are your special group. You also don't get to ignore the people they kill for their causes just because you like it. If you condemn people dying, you must condemn mages who kill. 3.) Jowan wasn't possessed, but he did harm others and use magic he knew he wasn't allowed to use. Remember, that was the reason they signed the Rite on him: Irving admits this. Wynne's apprentice ran from the tower, something he knew he wasn't allowed to do. It's not paranoia, it's cause and effect. Break the law, and get punished. 4.) Merrill is a blood mage, but that doesn't mean that everything she does is blood magic. Do you have any proof that her method of identifying whether or not that templar wasn't possessed is because she used blood magic? Remember, Anders was able to tell as well, and Anders is not a blood mage. Bethany remarks that she isn't able to tell, but that's because she didn't study demons, not blood magic.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 5, 2018 3:08:04 GMT
The most votes so far: "Independent Circle, governed by themselves, with the right to leave after training." Doesn't Thedas already have this more or less in Tevinter? I'm afraid the lack of context in each of these options were already limiting and was discussed a few pages back. ArcadiaGrey had already revised it several times with some feedback so we're focusing on what basic mage rights should be ensured while keeping in mind of the risks they pose to society. I don't think anyone so far is advocating for mage supremacy and domination over others.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 3:09:01 GMT
2. They have army and Meredith animated sculptures. If this not magic, I really don't know what exactly is the magic. And no matter, magic or not: people just died – because of their paranoia. And Meredith took that blighted power because she tempted by her paranoia. Strong emotion, remember? Everyone can be dangerous. The question is: how far you go to protect the people from themselves... "How big would your Gallow be?" And how many Tranquils would inside? By the way: Pharamond didn't attract demons when he possessed. 3. Uldred was a Senior Enchanter, not an apprentice – but Jowan was an apprentice blood mage who was not possessed and was restrained even in the most dangerous situation. Wynne's apprentice was not possessed, also in a dangerous position. You never can be sure... but the freedom isn't about your paranoia. 4. Merrill used blood magic. The animated sculptures..we're not exactly sure what that is. Remember that Meredith is no mage. If it's a feature of red lyrium, it's not the same as magic. At best, it's a more malignant form of what Valta did at the end of The Descent. Meredith did not take the power of the Blight because she was tempted by paranoia. Meredith certainly didn't know the red lyrium was powered by Blight. She only knew the sword was made of lyrium. For all we know, Meredith never knew about Bartrand's insanity until Hawke told her of it just before the boss battle. Mages are a danger because they are possessed by demons. This is inherent in being a mage. You can't ignore it just because mages are your special group. You also don't get to ignore the people they kill for their causes just because you like it. If you condemn people dying, you must condemn mages who kill. 3.) Jowan wasn't possessed, but he did harm others and use magic he knew he wasn't allowed to use. Remember, that was the reason they signed the Rite on him: Irving admits this. Wynne's apprentice ran from the tower, something he knew he wasn't allowed to do. It's not paranoia, it's cause and effect. Break the law, and get punished. 4.) Merrill is a blood mage, but that doesn't mean that everything she does is blood magic. Do you have any proof that her method of identifying whether or not that templar wasn't possessed is because she used blood magic? Remember, Anders was able to tell as well, and Anders is not a blood mage. Bethany remarks that she isn't able to tell, but that's because she didn't study demons, not blood magic. 1. So: if anyone animated sculptures is not a danger, because this is NOT MAGIC (it is magic – just a different kind of magic) – interesting. An elf used the Qunary poison and killed many. But this isn't a danger, because not a magic, she was over emotional. So, yes, I can ignore, and not because mages are my special group, but because you speak about that the possible dangerous people must be tranquil. 3. Jowan, for example, didn't cause any damage except probably some a little bruise. Irving puts a kiss on Greagoir's bruised ass (as usual), and everyone will be happy. To break an unjust law is not a crime. In fact, there are times when to support the law is a big sin. But we didn't speak about that they're criminals according to you, we spoke about that an apprentice able or not able to resist a demon. They're able. 4. Merrill used blood magic – it's very clear. Anders also a rare mage. And yes, neither Hawke, not Bethany doesn't know how can reveal this. But you can believe, that this isn't blood magic, not even the Phylactery.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 5, 2018 3:39:35 GMT
The animated sculptures..we're not exactly sure what that is. Remember that Meredith is no mage. If it's a feature of red lyrium, it's not the same as magic. At best, it's a more malignant form of what Valta did at the end of The Descent.
Meredith did not take the power of the Blight because she was tempted by paranoia. Meredith certainly didn't know the red lyrium was powered by Blight. She only knew the sword was made of lyrium. For all we know, Meredith never knew about Bartrand's insanity until Hawke told her of it just before the boss battle.
Mages are a danger because they are possessed by demons. This is inherent in being a mage. You can't ignore it just because mages are your special group. You also don't get to ignore the people they kill for their causes just because you like it. If you condemn people dying, you must condemn mages who kill.
3.) Jowan wasn't possessed, but he did harm others and use magic he knew he wasn't allowed to use. Remember, that was the reason they signed the Rite on him: Irving admits this. Wynne's apprentice ran from the tower, something he knew he wasn't allowed to do. It's not paranoia, it's cause and effect. Break the law, and get punished.
4.) Merrill is a blood mage, but that doesn't mean that everything she does is blood magic. Do you have any proof that her method of identifying whether or not that templar wasn't possessed is because she used blood magic? Remember, Anders was able to tell as well, and Anders is not a blood mage. Bethany remarks that she isn't able to tell, but that's because she didn't study demons, not blood magic. 1. So: if anyone animated sculptures is not a danger, because this is NOT MAGIC (it is magic – just a different kind of magic) – interesting. An elf used the Qunary poison and killed many. But this isn't a danger, because not a magic, she was over emotional. So, yes, I can ignore, and not because mages are my special group, but because you speak about that the possible dangerous people must be tranquil. 3. Jowan, for example, didn't cause any damage except probably some a little bruise. Irving puts a kiss on Greagoir's bruised ass (as usual), and everyone will be happy. To break an unjust law is not a crime. In fact, there are times when to support the law is a big sin. But we didn't speak about that they're criminals according to you, we spoke about that an apprentice able or not able to resist a demon. They're able. 4. Merrill used blood magic – it's very clear. Anders also a rare mage. And yes, neither Hawke, not Bethany doesn't know how can reveal this. But you can believe, that this isn't blood magic, not even the Phylactery. You're aware that magic cannot be done by non-Mages, correct? The elf committed a gravely stupid act. But she did not commit magic. I think you need to learn the difference. A law is not unjust because you believe it unjust. You are not the arbiter of law. That is your major problem: You are so arrogant you believe that you alone get to decide what is just. You don't know what anything is. You have a poor understanding of the lore. Just go back to fangirling over Anders.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 3:59:21 GMT
1. So: if anyone animated sculptures is not a danger, because this is NOT MAGIC (it is magic – just a different kind of magic) – interesting. An elf used the Qunary poison and killed many. But this isn't a danger, because not a magic, she was over emotional. So, yes, I can ignore, and not because mages are my special group, but because you speak about that the possible dangerous people must be tranquil. 3. Jowan, for example, didn't cause any damage except probably some a little bruise. Irving puts a kiss on Greagoir's bruised ass (as usual), and everyone will be happy. To break an unjust law is not a crime. In fact, there are times when to support the law is a big sin. But we didn't speak about that they're criminals according to you, we spoke about that an apprentice able or not able to resist a demon. They're able. 4. Merrill used blood magic – it's very clear. Anders also a rare mage. And yes, neither Hawke, not Bethany doesn't know how can reveal this. But you can believe, that this isn't blood magic, not even the Phylactery. You're aware that magic cannot be done by non-Mages, correct? The elf committed a gravely stupid act. But she did not commit magic. I think you need to learn the difference. A law is not unjust because you believe it unjust. You are not the arbiter of law. That is your major problem: You are so arrogant you believe that you alone get to decide what is just. You don't know what anything is. You have a poor understanding of the lore. Just go back to fangirling over Anders. 1. Okay. So: who died by a poison bomb or because of a(n obviously not magic-animated) sculpture stepped on his head is not same dead, like who died by magic? I can't see the difference, sorry. And I do not see the difference between the Tranquility caused serious brain damage and between a blood-mage caused serious brain damage (except that the blood magic caused brain damage rarely explained as "mercy"...). Both are serious sins. 2. So: According to you, if a slave escapes, and hurts the hunters because of self-defence, deserves punishment? There are unjust laws – and who breaks it is right. 3. Why I don't understand about the lore? that the Phylactery is a blood magic? Or that Merrill examined Keran's blood?
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Aug 5, 2018 4:12:33 GMT
The most votes so far: "Independent Circle, governed by themselves, with the right to leave after training." Doesn't Thedas already have this more or less in Tevinter? I'm afraid the lack of context in each of these options were already limiting and was discussed a few pages back. ArcadiaGrey had already revised it several times with some feedback so we're focusing on what basic mage rights should be ensured while keeping in mind of the risks they pose to society. I don't think anyone so far is advocating for mage supremacy and domination over others. I do not think that an "independent circle governed by themselves" is a good idea. The Tevinter Imperium is basically ruled by an "independent circle" of mages, with the non-mages being second class citizens. With that being said, I believe that "A reformed Circle, overseen by free Templars" is a better option because an organization of mages will at least have some independent oversight (free Templars).
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Post by opuspace on Aug 5, 2018 4:19:57 GMT
I'm afraid the lack of context in each of these options were already limiting and was discussed a few pages back. ArcadiaGrey had already revised it several times with some feedback so we're focusing on what basic mage rights should be ensured while keeping in mind of the risks they pose to society. I don't think anyone so far is advocating for mage supremacy and domination over others. I do not think that an "independent circle governed by themselves" is a good idea. The Tevinter Imperium is basically ruled by an "independent circle" of mages, with the non-mages being second class citizens. With that being said, I believe that "A reformed Circle, overseen by free Templars" is a better option because an organization of mages will at least have some independent oversight (free Templars). I can see why that'd be a concern. Someone being a mage doesn't necessarily mean they'll be sympathetic or careful about how Southern Thedas views their actions as a new institution or rather, they might go overboard precisely because of that. Having free Templars runs a similar risk too because what's the fallback plan in case another Lambert, Meredith, Ser Otto Alric or Lucius comes about? That said, having a College of Enchanters doesn't mean the Templar Order has to end. Cassandra's suggestion about keeping them outside the Circles can still be implemented as a precaution instead of inviting another repeat of history. And with Vivienne creating competition with her own version of the Circles, having an independent Circle is worth exploring.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 4:20:59 GMT
I'm afraid the lack of context in each of these options were already limiting and was discussed a few pages back. ArcadiaGrey had already revised it several times with some feedback so we're focusing on what basic mage rights should be ensured while keeping in mind of the risks they pose to society. I don't think anyone so far is advocating for mage supremacy and domination over others. I do not think that an "independent circle governed by themselves" is a good idea. The Tevinter Imperium is basically ruled by an "independent circle" of mages, with the non-mages being second class citizens. With that being said, I believe that "A reformed Circle, overseen by free Templars" is a better option because an organization of mages will at least have some independent oversight (free Templars). Orlais ruled by the Emperor/Empress and the non-nobles are second class. You think an independent army is a very good idea? Who will kick their ass?
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Post by boxofscreaming on Aug 5, 2018 8:24:58 GMT
I'm afraid the lack of context in each of these options were already limiting and was discussed a few pages back. ArcadiaGrey had already revised it several times with some feedback so we're focusing on what basic mage rights should be ensured while keeping in mind of the risks they pose to society. I don't think anyone so far is advocating for mage supremacy and domination over others. I do not think that an "independent circle governed by themselves" is a good idea. The Tevinter Imperium is basically ruled by an "independent circle" of mages, with the non-mages being second class citizens. With that being said, I believe that "A reformed Circle, overseen by free Templars" is a better option because an organization of mages will at least have some independent oversight (free Templars). Every country in Thedas has a ruling class and a mass of people below them with no influence. I'm not saying that's how things should be, but it's a pre-modern setting so we can't expect democracy.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 5, 2018 8:28:19 GMT
I do not think that an "independent circle governed by themselves" is a good idea. The Tevinter Imperium is basically ruled by an "independent circle" of mages, with the non-mages being second class citizens. With that being said, I believe that "A reformed Circle, overseen by free Templars" is a better option because an organization of mages will at least have some independent oversight (free Templars). Every country in Thedas has a ruling class and a mass of people below them with no influence. I'm not saying that's how things should be, but it's a pre-modern setting so we can't expect democracy. Except we see democracy in Thedas on multiple occasions in the franchise.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 5, 2018 8:38:10 GMT
Um, yes he did. His actions killed an entire keep full of innocent civilians. He was possessed. In a very interesting mental state. I don't think, he was compos mentis. Without emotion, you can't control yourself. Everything just easy. His task was to search a solution. There was no moral that restrained him. But the tranquillity is very safe isn't? I spoke about, that when he was "unstable"... What your proof, he will kill someone? If no proof, you can't tranquil him. If you want to be ethical. It's important for you, isn't? Sorry. I misunderstood your post. I thought you were saying he never killed anyone, not just after the possession stopped.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 9:42:23 GMT
The most votes so far: "Independent Circle, governed by themselves, with the right to leave after training." Doesn't Thedas already have this more or less in Tevinter? I'm afraid the lack of context in each of these options were already limiting and was discussed a few pages back. ArcadiaGrey had already revised it several times with some feedback so we're focusing on what basic mage rights should be ensured while keeping in mind of the risks they pose to society. I don't think anyone so far is advocating for mage supremacy and domination over others. The poll appears at the top of every page so I didn't want too many options cluttering up people's screens. It's impossible to please everyone with a poll like this, but hopefully the basics are there and most can find something to suit them.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 5, 2018 13:10:00 GMT
You're aware that magic cannot be done by non-Mages, correct?
The elf committed a gravely stupid act. But she did not commit magic. I think you need to learn the difference.
A law is not unjust because you believe it unjust. You are not the arbiter of law. That is your major problem: You are so arrogant you believe that you alone get to decide what is just.
You don't know what anything is. You have a poor understanding of the lore. Just go back to fangirling over Anders. 1. Okay. So: who died by a poison bomb or because of a(n obviously not magic-animated) sculpture stepped on his head is not same dead, like who died by magic? I can't see the difference, sorry. And I do not see the difference between the Tranquility caused serious brain damage and between a blood-mage caused serious brain damage (except that the blood magic caused brain damage rarely explained as "mercy"...). Both are serious sins. 2. So: According to you, if a slave escapes, and hurts the hunters because of self-defence, deserves punishment? There are unjust laws – and who breaks it is right. 3. Why I don't understand about the lore? that the Phylactery is a blood magic? Or that Merrill examined Keran's blood? Dying from a poison bomb is a crime. It is not magic. Why are you trying to insist that it is? Is it another poor grasp of English, or are you making excuses for crimes done by magic. The difference is that Tranquility is given to someone who commits a crime. Blood mage thralls don't do anything to deserve punishment. If you believe a law is unjust, you must change the law. If you choose to revolt against a law, you must be willing to pay the price for it. You not liking a law because you have a hard-on for certain groups of people doesn't make something unjust. You know you can examine blood without using magic, right? We do that in the real world, no magic needed.
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Aug 5, 2018 13:43:09 GMT
In my opinion, a 'poor grasp of english" should probably not be a major focus in your posts. Not everyone is a native english speaker. Please try to cut her a break ...
I am an ugly American, that knows only a handful of Chinese words, and two handfuls of Spanish words, but I have zero interest in learning a new language. However, I try to use the native language occasionally when I am out of the country on business.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 13:58:09 GMT
1. Okay. So: who died by a poison bomb or because of a(n obviously not magic-animated) sculpture stepped on his head is not same dead, like who died by magic? I can't see the difference, sorry. And I do not see the difference between the Tranquility caused serious brain damage and between a blood-mage caused serious brain damage (except that the blood magic caused brain damage rarely explained as "mercy"...). Both are serious sins. 2. So: According to you, if a slave escapes, and hurts the hunters because of self-defence, deserves punishment? There are unjust laws – and who breaks it is right. 3. Why I don't understand about the lore? that the Phylactery is a blood magic? Or that Merrill examined Keran's blood? Dying from a poison bomb is a crime. It is not magic. Why are you trying to insist that it is? Is it another poor grasp of English, or are you making excuses for crimes done by magic. The difference is that Tranquility is given to someone who commits a crime. Blood mage thralls don't do anything to deserve punishment. If you believe a law is unjust, you must change the law. If you choose to revolt against a law, you must be willing to pay the price for it. You not liking a law because you have a hard-on for certain groups of people doesn't make something unjust. You know you can examine blood without using magic, right? We do that in the real world, no magic needed. 1. Dying is not a crime. Murdering is a crime. With or without the magic. These are the same – again: the death is death, no matter committed by magic or without magic. Everyone can be dangerous. According to your "logic" (you said: they must Tranquilize Pharamond because he's a possible danger), everyone should be locked, killed/lobotomized to prevent a possible murder, because everyone's a potential danger. You can't be sure. Never. 2. The Tranquility was used on innocent people more times than on the criminals – and not only in Kirkwall's Circle. So: the Tranquility just as bad, as a blood magic caused brain damage. 3. Answer my question! According to you, a slave who escaped from his master, deserves punishment or not? If a slave kills his master/hunters during the escape, deserves punishment? How far you willing to defend an unjust law against a group that suffers under this law? It's easy to say: "you must change the law"! 4. Okay. So: Merrill's a forensic medical examiner. Good to know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 14:08:38 GMT
Hey catalina, thanks for spoilering the quoted text. Makes the board tidier.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 5, 2018 14:55:59 GMT
Dying from a poison bomb is a crime. It is not magic. Why are you trying to insist that it is? Is it another poor grasp of English, or are you making excuses for crimes done by magic.
The difference is that Tranquility is given to someone who commits a crime. Blood mage thralls don't do anything to deserve punishment.
If you believe a law is unjust, you must change the law. If you choose to revolt against a law, you must be willing to pay the price for it. You not liking a law because you have a hard-on for certain groups of people doesn't make something unjust.
You know you can examine blood without using magic, right? We do that in the real world, no magic needed. 1. Dying is not a crime. Murdering is a crime. With or without the magic. These are the same – again: the death is death, no matter committed by magic or without magic. Everyone can be dangerous. According to your "logic" (you said: they must Tranquilize Pharamond because he's a possible danger), everyone should be locked, killed/lobotomized to prevent a possible murder, because everyone's a potential danger. You can't be sure. Never. 2. The Tranquility was used on innocent people more times than on the criminals – and not only in Kirkwall's Circle. So: the Tranquility just as bad, as a blood magic caused brain damage. 3. Answer my question! According to you, a slave who escaped from his master, deserves punishment or not? If a slave kills his master/hunters during the escape, deserves punishment? How far you willing to defend an unjust law against a group that suffers under this law? It's easy to say: "you must change the law"! 4. Okay. So: Merrill's a forensic medical examiner. Good to know. Existing is not a crime, but existing as a mage draws the attention of demons. You can't ignore that just because you fangirl over a certain character. That's only according to one person (Anders), who has no problem with lying to anyone. Remember that when Tranquility was proposed as a solution, even ass-crazy Meredith said no. I did answer the question. Try reading instead of whining. Personal tragedy is no excuse. If you have proof Merrill used magic, provide it.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 15:58:40 GMT
1. Dying is not a crime. Murdering is a crime. With or without the magic. These are the same – again: the death is death, no matter committed by magic or without magic. Everyone can be dangerous. According to your "logic" (you said: they must Tranquilize Pharamond because he's a possible danger), everyone should be locked, killed/lobotomized to prevent a possible murder, because everyone's a potential danger. You can't be sure. Never. 2. The Tranquility was used on innocent people more times than on the criminals – and not only in Kirkwall's Circle. So: the Tranquility just as bad, as a blood magic caused brain damage. 3. Answer my question! According to you, a slave who escaped from his master, deserves punishment or not? If a slave kills his master/hunters during the escape, deserves punishment? How far you willing to defend an unjust law against a group that suffers under this law? It's easy to say: "you must change the law"! 4. Okay. So: Merrill's a forensic medical examiner. Good to know. Existing is not a crime, but existing as a mage draws the attention of demons. You can't ignore that just because you fangirl over a certain character. That's only according to one person (Anders), who has no problem with lying to anyone. Remember that when Tranquility was proposed as a solution, even ass-crazy Meredith said no. I did answer the question. Try reading instead of whining. Personal tragedy is no excuse. If you have proof Merrill used magic, provide it. 1. Of course, I can ignore. Because of existing isn't a crime. But just a reminder: originally I not even spoke about who's criminal, I referred to your thesis, according to which Pharamond must be Tranquil because he's a possible danger. I just suggested, you must be vigilant, because you can't be sure about anyone... someone just walks in the street and smiles, but inside the darkness chews his soul... so: just watch! Walking bombs everywhere! 2. It's not only "according to Anders" (stop this bullshit – Anders' opinion about the Tranquility is the same as the opinion of the big majority of the mages) – who made Tranquil because of a possible danger, is innocent, according to every law. Being a possible danger isn't a crime. (Meredith wanted to torture the Mages with the Tranquility; to keep them in fear by the Tranquility. And at the moment she was not as mad as was Alric – so she rather played with the mages' fear, while Alric was a pervert – on another way. But she kept Alric in the Order, probably because she thought, Alric's view is not that bad). And still, my opinion is to ruin someone's brain with the Tranquility is just as bad as to ruin someone's mind with blood magic. 3. Okay, then as I expected. You would support a Magister in executing/punishing his/her slave, and you would support the slave hunters to catch the escaped slaves, because this is the law – and they haven't any right to break this law. 4. I already accepted your very smart argument, and considered: Merrill's a forensic medical examiner. I admit, it's a shame I didn't count on this possibility, while I like the CSI series...
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 5, 2018 16:12:57 GMT
Existing is not a crime, but existing as a mage draws the attention of demons. You can't ignore that just because you fangirl over a certain character.
That's only according to one person (Anders), who has no problem with lying to anyone. Remember that when Tranquility was proposed as a solution, even ass-crazy Meredith said no.
I did answer the question. Try reading instead of whining. Personal tragedy is no excuse.
If you have proof Merrill used magic, provide it. 1. Of course, I can ignore. Because of existing isn't a crime. But just a reminder: originally I not even spoke about who's criminal, I referred to your thesis, according to which Pharamond must be Tranquil because he's a possible danger. I just suggested, you must be vigilant, because you can't be sure about anyone... someone just walks in the street and smiles, but inside the darkness chews his soul... so: just watch! Walking bombs everywhere! 2. It's not only "according to Anders" (stop this bullshit – Anders' opinion about the Tranquility is the same as the opinion of the big majority of the mages) – who made Tranquil because of a possible danger, is innocent, according to every law. Being a possible danger isn't a crime. (Meredith wanted to torture the Mages with the Tranquility; to keep them in fear by the Tranquility. And at the moment she was not as mad as was Alric – so she rather played with the mages' fear, while Alric was a pervert – on another way. But she kept Alric in the Order, probably because she thought, Alric's view is not that bad). And still, my opinion is to ruin someone's brain with the Tranquility is just as bad as to ruin someone's mind with blood magic. 3. Okay, then as I expected. You would support a Magister in executing/punishing his/her slave, and you would support the slave hunters to catch the escaped slaves, because this is the law – and they haven't any right to break this law. 4. I already accepted your very smart argument, and considered: Merrill's a forensic medical examiner. I admit, it's a shame I didn't count on this possibility, while I like the CSI series... Pharamond isn't considered a danger just because. He is considered a danger because of things that he does, things that, specifically, even those who do not like the Rite know is true. Pharamond is not allowed to kill just because he is of the special people you like. More intelligent people knew it and the risk wasn't eorth it. Yes, it is according to Anders. Meredith did not want to torture with Tranquility, that was Alrik (you should really stop making things up). And yes, it is according to Anders. Someone who admits to lying to you. That you take him at his word proves your ideas do not come from logic, but from favoritism. That is the law. If you want to change the law, change it. If you want to escape, escape. But be prepared for the consequences. You seem to be of the belief that everything a special class of people does is okay because they are the special people. Interesting. History's greatest monsters used the same argument that you did. I did not say Merrill is a forensic medical examiner. I said that Merrill examined the blood. Even a layman can do that. Given that Merrill has knowledge of demons, it bears to reason that she could determine a demon. Even a high schooler can look at a blood sample and determine something out of whack, like glucose levels. I would know, I did that in high school.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 16:56:16 GMT
1. Of course, I can ignore. Because of existing isn't a crime. But just a reminder: originally I not even spoke about who's criminal, I referred to your thesis, according to which Pharamond must be Tranquil because he's a possible danger. I just suggested, you must be vigilant, because you can't be sure about anyone... someone just walks in the street and smiles, but inside the darkness chews his soul... so: just watch! Walking bombs everywhere! 2. It's not only "according to Anders" (stop this bullshit – Anders' opinion about the Tranquility is the same as the opinion of the big majority of the mages) – who made Tranquil because of a possible danger, is innocent, according to every law. Being a possible danger isn't a crime. (Meredith wanted to torture the Mages with the Tranquility; to keep them in fear by the Tranquility. And at the moment she was not as mad as was Alric – so she rather played with the mages' fear, while Alric was a pervert – on another way. But she kept Alric in the Order, probably because she thought, Alric's view is not that bad). And still, my opinion is to ruin someone's brain with the Tranquility is just as bad as to ruin someone's mind with blood magic. 3. Okay, then as I expected. You would support a Magister in executing/punishing his/her slave, and you would support the slave hunters to catch the escaped slaves, because this is the law – and they haven't any right to break this law. 4. I already accepted your very smart argument, and considered: Merrill's a forensic medical examiner. I admit, it's a shame I didn't count on this possibility, while I like the CSI series... Pharamond isn't considered a danger just because. He is considered a danger because of things that he does, things that, specifically, even those who do not like the Rite know is true. Pharamond is not allowed to kill just because he is of the special people you like. More intelligent people knew it and the risk wasn't eorth it. Yes, it is according to Anders. Meredith did not want to torture with Tranquility, that was Alrik (you should really stop making things up). And yes, it is according to Anders. Someone who admits to lying to you. That you take him at his word proves your ideas do not come from logic, but from favoritism. That is the law. If you want to change the law, change it. If you want to escape, escape. But be prepared for the consequences. You seem to be of the belief that everything a special class of people does is okay because they are the special people. Interesting. History's greatest monsters used the same argument that you did. I did not say Merrill is a forensic medical examiner. I said that Merrill examined the blood. Even a layman can do that. Given that Merrill has knowledge of demons, it bears to reason that she could determine a demon. Even a high schooler can look at a blood sample and determine something out of whack, like glucose levels. I would know, I did that in high school. 1. The question was not that Pharamond is a possible danger or not. Of course, he's a possible danger. But I don't think, that the majority of the "more intelligent" people would consider that the potentially dangerous people must be eliminated/lobotomized. I believe in the people – at least I would like to believe... 2. Then what was Meredith's goal with to made Tranquil random mages, for example, because of a love letter? To maintain the law and order? By a crime? And what do you think about it: a love letter enough crime to make someone Tranquil? According to me, this still not better than to destroy the mind with blood magic. Not only Anders thinks, that the Tranquility is unacceptable. Even Bethany and the majority of the mages. The fact, that Anders lied about the potion, doesn't mean he lied about everything. By the way, how he lied about his opinion? Then this isn't really his opinion? How? He lied about he opposes the Tranquility, because he wanted to conceal that he agrees with the Tranquility? Fascinating! You enlightened me! 3. It's not about the slave should prepare to the consequences if s/he escape and possible murder someone during the run. The question is, in this case, you would support the slave or the law... But I see, you would support the law. Thanks to the answer, it good to know. 4. With your bare hand. Yes. It's obviously believable: she just saw there's no demon in the blood because she already saw even demons and blood. Logical. Really.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 5, 2018 18:01:49 GMT
Some safe place for the education and the magical research is very important (not necessarily in the same pace!), just as some anti-magical force to handle the powerful rogue mages. But not with non-mages only, because the mages have many anti-magical spells – without lyrium-addiction. The non-mages would be important in this force, because of the trust, and because the mages are rare. For the peace and the safety. I'm with Anders in this case: "A world where every mage can learn to use their gifts and still return home at night. Where no mother ever needs to hide her child… or lose him to the fear of his neighbours. Where magic is recognized as a gift of the Maker, not the curse it has become."And this: Anders: Where did you learn your magic? I mean, you know my feelings on the Circle, but usually, it's the only decent training a mage can get. Bethany: My father taught me. He was in the Circle once, trained there. But he got away. Anders: You don't know how lucky you were, to have someone who loved you and could help you. Most mages would kill for that. Bethany: You remind me of him. He hated the Circle – but considers the training is important. Well, Anders has internalised many of the Chantry's beliefs, as shown by his banters with Merrill. If mages want to set up schools for mages, that's fine, but I think the southern kingdoms are way past having any moral authority to say what mages should or shouldn't do. I'd not force any mage to be trained. It's not a matter of Anders internalizing the Chantry's beliefs, or how much moral authority the southern kingdoms have. It's a matter of mages needing training. A mage refusing training doesn't make them a muggle, it makes them a person with a whole lot of power and a link to the realm of demons with no idea how to control either. If you want to understand how important it is not to leave mages untrained, Magister Erasthenes taught his slave Calpernia basic magic himself because he feared the alternative was for her uncontrolled powers to result in an abomination running rampant in his slave quarters.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 5, 2018 23:27:25 GMT
Pharamond isn't considered a danger just because. He is considered a danger because of things that he does, things that, specifically, even those who do not like the Rite know is true. Pharamond is not allowed to kill just because he is of the special people you like. More intelligent people knew it and the risk wasn't eorth it.
Yes, it is according to Anders. Meredith did not want to torture with Tranquility, that was Alrik (you should really stop making things up). And yes, it is according to Anders. Someone who admits to lying to you. That you take him at his word proves your ideas do not come from logic, but from favoritism.
That is the law. If you want to change the law, change it. If you want to escape, escape. But be prepared for the consequences. You seem to be of the belief that everything a special class of people does is okay because they are the special people. Interesting. History's greatest monsters used the same argument that you did.
I did not say Merrill is a forensic medical examiner. I said that Merrill examined the blood. Even a layman can do that. Given that Merrill has knowledge of demons, it bears to reason that she could determine a demon. Even a high schooler can look at a blood sample and determine something out of whack, like glucose levels. I would know, I did that in high school. 1. The question was not that Pharamond is a possible danger or not. Of course, he's a possible danger. But I don't think, that the majority of the "more intelligent" people would consider that the potentially dangerous people must be eliminated/lobotomized. I believe in the people – at least I would like to believe... 2. Then what was Meredith's goal with to made Tranquil random mages, for example, because of a love letter? To maintain the law and order? By a crime? And what do you think about it: a love letter enough crime to make someone Tranquil? According to me, this still not better than to destroy the mind with blood magic. Not only Anders thinks, that the Tranquility is unacceptable. Even Bethany and the majority of the mages. The fact, that Anders lied about the potion, doesn't mean he lied about everything. By the way, how he lied about his opinion? Then this isn't really his opinion? How? He lied about he opposes the Tranquility, because he wanted to conceal that he agrees with the Tranquility? Fascinating! You enlightened me! 3. It's not about the slave should prepare to the consequences if s/he escape and possible murder someone during the run. The question is, in this case, you would support the slave or the law... But I see, you would support the law. Thanks to the answer, it good to know. 4. With your bare hand. Yes. It's obviously believable: she just saw there's no demon in the blood because she already saw even demons and blood. Logical. Really. 1.) And yet, the evidence of the book contradicts you. You cannot force your interpretation as fact. Pharamond was in no state. Cassandra and Justinia both agree so, and they are mage allies. 2.) Maddox was not made Tranquil because he wrote a love letter. Maddox was made Tranquil because he conspired with a Templar to break the rules of the Circle. No one held a wand to his head and forced him to write that letter. The fact that Anders lies doesn't mean Anders must lie. However, it does beg the fact that you cannot take him at face value, which you seem to do. Also, opposing Tranquility is not a good enough reason to get rid of it. Mages like Erimond do deserve magical punishments. 3.) To accept the consequences of actions is to accept life. You do not seem to understand this. Not to be rude, but are you a child? Your way of thinking is very childlike. If so, you will understand when you are older. 4.) But we don't see her cast a spell either. And we've seen Merrill cast spells, blood magic or otherwise. There are specific movements, noises, reactions from the world itself. None of that we see, and Merrill is on-camera for it. You need to prove two things, dude: That Merrill used magic and that it was blood magic. I'm still waiting for that proof.
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