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Post by jaerick243 on Aug 6, 2018 0:17:00 GMT
4.) But we don't see her cast a spell either. And we've seen Merrill cast spells, blood magic or otherwise. There are specific movements, noises, reactions from the world itself. None of that we see, and Merrill is on-camera for it. You need to prove two things, dude: That Merrill used magic and that it was blood magic. I'm still waiting for that proof. Didn't Merrill use blood magic when she opened the barrier to the grave yard on Sundermount? She used a knife to cut her hand and used the blood. At mark 16:53
Uh, I think they are talking about demons in blood. Like in a quest where you investigate missing templars. I do not remember the quest very well, but I do not remember Merrill cutting herself in that scene.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 6, 2018 0:37:34 GMT
1. The question was not that Pharamond is a possible danger or not. Of course, he's a possible danger. But I don't think, that the majority of the "more intelligent" people would consider that the potentially dangerous people must be eliminated/lobotomized. I believe in the people – at least I would like to believe... 2. Then what was Meredith's goal with to made Tranquil random mages, for example, because of a love letter? To maintain the law and order? By a crime? And what do you think about it: a love letter enough crime to make someone Tranquil? According to me, this still not better than to destroy the mind with blood magic. Not only Anders thinks, that the Tranquility is unacceptable. Even Bethany and the majority of the mages. The fact, that Anders lied about the potion, doesn't mean he lied about everything. By the way, how he lied about his opinion? Then this isn't really his opinion? How? He lied about he opposes the Tranquility, because he wanted to conceal that he agrees with the Tranquility? Fascinating! You enlightened me! 3. It's not about the slave should prepare to the consequences if s/he escape and possible murder someone during the run. The question is, in this case, you would support the slave or the law... But I see, you would support the law. Thanks to the answer, it good to know. 4. With your bare hand. Yes. It's obviously believable: she just saw there's no demon in the blood because she already saw even demons and blood. Logical. Really. 1.) And yet, the evidence of the book contradicts you. You cannot force your interpretation as fact. Pharamond was in no state. Cassandra and Justinia both agree so, and they are mage allies. 2.) Maddox was not made Tranquil because he wrote a love letter. Maddox was made Tranquil because he conspired with a Templar to break the rules of the Circle. No one held a wand to his head and forced him to write that letter. The fact that Anders lies doesn't mean Anders must lie. However, it does beg the fact that you cannot take him at face value, which you seem to do. Also, opposing Tranquility is not a good enough reason to get rid of it. Mages like Erimond do deserve magical punishments. 3.) To accept the consequences of actions is to accept life. You do not seem to understand this. Not to be rude, but are you a child? Your way of thinking is very childlike. If so, you will understand when you are older. 4.) But we don't see her cast a spell either. And we've seen Merrill cast spells, blood magic or otherwise. There are specific movements, noises, reactions from the world itself. None of that we see, and Merrill is on-camera for it. You need to prove two things, dude: That Merrill used magic and that it was blood magic. I'm still waiting for that proof. 1. Cassandra was not there – but she said, she will work on a safe method to reverse the Tranquility. I think, Justinia accepted it for the momentary peace – she wanted to calm down that madman. She was a politician. This isn't an excuse, this is a fact – politicians sacrifices people. Cassandra is a reluctant ally yet. She tries and able to understand – benevolent, but she was a Seeker, and this says everything. Anyway, hard to get rid of thousand years habit, but have to get rid, if it wrong. But I spoke about my opinion: I think, it's unacceptable to made tranquil people who potentially dangerous. What's your opinion? You accept that? 2. Everyone who thinks, this was a correct punishment is mad – and dangerous. More than the mages were ever. I no wonder you're okay with it. By the way: why the Templar (Samson) was not mutilated? No matter: no one of them deserved that punishment what they got – and Meredith was a criminal. Seems you agree with this decision, so you agree with a crime. What Meredith did, was against the Chantry's law – she broke her own law, which for she swore. Anyway, I never thought, that I'll find someone, who will agree with Maddox's Tranquility here – especially who says, The law is above all. 3. Of course, I'm childish. And I don't want to grow if it's the price. I try to deal with the ugly reality: I'll remain a child – and I'll be satisfied in my own blissful ignorance. 4. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 6, 2018 0:40:17 GMT
Didn't Merrill use blood magic when she opened the barrier to the grave yard on Sundermount? She used a knife to cut her hand and used the blood. At mark 16:53
Uh, I think they are talking about demons in blood. Like in a quest where you investigate missing templars. I do not remember the quest very well, but I do not remember Merrill cutting herself in that scene. Don't need to cut herself for everything. Blood magic the phylactery as well – and the Joining ritual.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 6, 2018 1:15:21 GMT
4.) But we don't see her cast a spell either. And we've seen Merrill cast spells, blood magic or otherwise. There are specific movements, noises, reactions from the world itself. None of that we see, and Merrill is on-camera for it. You need to prove two things, dude: That Merrill used magic and that it was blood magic. I'm still waiting for that proof. Didn't Merrill use blood magic when she opened the barrier to the grave yard on Sundermount? She used a knife to cut her hand and used the blood. At mark 16:53
I'm not talking about Merrill using blood magic in general. I'm talking about a specific instance, if you use her during that quest with that crazy lady Tarohne. Merrill can verify if the templar is possessed or not (he's not). But she doesn't cast a spell like she did in that scene.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 6, 2018 1:22:51 GMT
1.) And yet, the evidence of the book contradicts you. You cannot force your interpretation as fact. Pharamond was in no state. Cassandra and Justinia both agree so, and they are mage allies.
2.) Maddox was not made Tranquil because he wrote a love letter. Maddox was made Tranquil because he conspired with a Templar to break the rules of the Circle. No one held a wand to his head and forced him to write that letter.
The fact that Anders lies doesn't mean Anders must lie. However, it does beg the fact that you cannot take him at face value, which you seem to do.
Also, opposing Tranquility is not a good enough reason to get rid of it. Mages like Erimond do deserve magical punishments.
3.) To accept the consequences of actions is to accept life. You do not seem to understand this. Not to be rude, but are you a child? Your way of thinking is very childlike. If so, you will understand when you are older.
4.) But we don't see her cast a spell either. And we've seen Merrill cast spells, blood magic or otherwise. There are specific movements, noises, reactions from the world itself. None of that we see, and Merrill is on-camera for it. You need to prove two things, dude: That Merrill used magic and that it was blood magic. I'm still waiting for that proof. 1. Cassandra was not there – but she said, she will work on a safe method to reverse the Tranquility. I think, Justinia accepted it for the momentary peace – she wanted to calm down that madman. She was a politician. This isn't an excuse, this is a fact – politicians sacrifices people. Cassandra is a reluctant ally yet. She tries and able to understand – benevolent, but she was a Seeker, and this says everything. Anyway, hard to get rid of thousand years habit, but have to get rid, if it wrong. But I spoke about my opinion: I think, it's unacceptable to made tranquil people who potentially dangerous. What's your opinion? You accept that? 2. Everyone who thinks, this was a correct punishment is mad – and dangerous. More than the mages were ever. I no wonder you're okay with it. By the way: why the Templar (Samson) was not mutilated? No matter: no one of them deserved that punishment what they got – and Meredith was a criminal. Seems you agree with this decision, so you agree with a crime. What Meredith did, was against the Chantry's law – she broke her own law, which for she swore. Anyway, I never thought, that I'll find someone, who will agree with Maddox's Tranquility here – especially who says, The law is above all. 3. Of course, I'm childish. And I don't want to grow if it's the price. I try to deal with the ugly reality: I'll remain a child – and I'll be satisfied in my own blissful ignorance. 4. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. 1.) Cassandra talks about it in dialogue with Solas. She remarks that he was completely uncontrollable with his emotions (and the book confirms this). Solas remarks that such a man would indeed be incredibly vulnerable to possession. My opinion is that Tranquility should be reserved for magical criminals, people who request it, and people who can't handle magic because they will get possessed. 2.) Why was Samson not "mutiliated?" Samson was expelled from the Templar Order. Given the effect lyrium withdrawal has on Templars, you can argue it is much the same. I guess you're okay with that because he's not a mage, so he gets what he deserves? What did Meredith do that was against Chantry law? Tranquility may still be given to mages who pass their Harrowing if they break the law. All it requires is three things: Permission from the Knight-Commander, permission from the First Enchanter, and "significant provocation." You can get that after the Harrowing. 3.) Then there's nothing to say. If you aren't willing to deal with adult problems, then don't expect me to treat your opinion as such. 4.) Patterns exist until the moment they don't. Facts above all, kid.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 6, 2018 2:35:02 GMT
1. Cassandra was not there – but she said, she will work on a safe method to reverse the Tranquility. I think, Justinia accepted it for the momentary peace – she wanted to calm down that madman. She was a politician. This isn't an excuse, this is a fact – politicians sacrifices people. Cassandra is a reluctant ally yet. She tries and able to understand – benevolent, but she was a Seeker, and this says everything. Anyway, hard to get rid of thousand years habit, but have to get rid, if it wrong. But I spoke about my opinion: I think, it's unacceptable to made tranquil people who potentially dangerous. What's your opinion? You accept that? 2. Everyone who thinks, this was a correct punishment is mad – and dangerous. More than the mages were ever. I no wonder you're okay with it. By the way: why the Templar (Samson) was not mutilated? No matter: no one of them deserved that punishment what they got – and Meredith was a criminal. Seems you agree with this decision, so you agree with a crime. What Meredith did, was against the Chantry's law – she broke her own law, which for she swore. Anyway, I never thought, that I'll find someone, who will agree with Maddox's Tranquility here – especially who says, The law is above all. 3. Of course, I'm childish. And I don't want to grow if it's the price. I try to deal with the ugly reality: I'll remain a child – and I'll be satisfied in my own blissful ignorance. 4. If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. 1.) Cassandra talks about it in dialogue with Solas. She remarks that he was completely uncontrollable with his emotions (and the book confirms this). Solas remarks that such a man would indeed be incredibly vulnerable to possession. My opinion is that Tranquility should be reserved for magical criminals, people who request it, and people who can't handle magic because they will get possessed. 2.) Why was Samson not "mutiliated?" Samson was expelled from the Templar Order. Given the effect lyrium withdrawal has on Templars, you can argue it is much the same. I guess you're okay with that because he's not a mage, so he gets what he deserves? What did Meredith do that was against Chantry law? Tranquility may still be given to mages who pass their Harrowing if they break the law. All it requires is three things: Permission from the Knight-Commander, permission from the First Enchanter, and "significant provocation." You can get that after the Harrowing. 3.) Then there's nothing to say. If you aren't willing to deal with adult problems, then don't expect me to treat your opinion as such. 4.) Patterns exist until the moment they don't. Facts above all, kid. 1. Cassandra didn't even saw him. And not, in the book, Pharamond seems flooded by emotions, but I found it natural in his mental state. He would deserve some time – not mentioned, if anyone would really want to reverse the Tranquility – the changes of his behaviour would be very useful. And there's this conversation – Solas just says what I said as well: a potential danger, but there a chance to recover. And Cassandra doesn't oppose, in fact, she says: "That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake." Cassandra: Solas, I assume you know it's possible to reverse the Rite of Tranquility. Solas: I did hear of what you learned, yes. Cassandra: I know of only one mage thus cured, and... he had no control of his emotions. He was distraught. Do you think that would have passed? If the Tranquil are cured only to end up thus... Solas: They would be a danger to themselves and others, yes. It is difficult to say. In your Vigil, you were Tranquil for but a moment. They have suffered much longer. Such control is like a muscle, atrophying without use. Given time it might be restored, but until then... Cassandra: That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake. Solas: They will be grateful... even the ones who do not survive. So: Cassandra is more intelligent – than you're. Thank you reminded me of this conversation. I totally forget that. Your opinion about the Tranquility, compared, what you write about that the Tranquility was justifiable in Maddox's case, is at least interesting. 2. Because of Samson and Maddox participated in the same act – it presumes the same consequences – and it's a very cruel method, but not really same as the Tranquility. (I expected that answer from you, and yes, to keep the Templars on a lyrium leash is evil too. The whole system is unacceptable – it just justified that.) But I think you missed the part of my comment that: "No matter: no one of them deserved that punishment what they got" So: neither Maddox the Tranquility, nor Samson to be expelled. But sadly, you're right about the Chantry's law, if we can consider Maddox's case as a "significant provocation". Can you? Because of I not. And even would be surprised, if Orsino gave his permission, but of course, we don't know that. And Cullen says in the Inquisition that Meredith made Tranquil some mages for lesser "sins" like a love letter... these are also "significant provocations"? And not against the law? So you think, that Meredith was law-abiding? 3. To support the slavery's law and help to slaveholders to got back their escaped property is an "adult problem". And you're an adult. Again: I'm glad, I'm such a childish. 4. Okay. The duck's not a duck.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 6, 2018 20:13:45 GMT
When it comes to how to deal with Pharamond, Evangeline had the right idea when she tried to kill him. That man killed dozens of innocent people yet people like Rhys and Wynne wanted him to not be punished for that. Then again this isn't the first time mages and pro-mage fans don't care about innocent civilians. Those people are fair game to them as long as the mages get what they want.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 6, 2018 20:40:10 GMT
When it comes to how to deal with Pharamond, Evangeline had the right idea when she tried to kill him. That man killed dozens of innocent people yet people like Rhys and Wynne wanted him to not be punished for that. Then again this isn't the first time mages and pro-mage fans don't care about innocent civilians. Those people are fair game to them as long as the mages get what they want. You want me to repeat myself? Okay, let it be! Of course, Pharamond's body committed mass murder. As possessed – so, he was not himself. But when he possessed, he was a Tranquil. The Tranquility is a weird mental state. He only saw the task, what he got from the Divine – and he found the solution. Without emotion, you can't control yourself. Everything just easy and clear. He found the way. There was no moral that restrained him. As a Tranquil, with a mutilated mind – he was non compos mentis.He didn't have any desire – he possessed because the solution of his task was in the fade – so, he found a way to summon a spirit. And I suppose he didn't even know, that a tranquil able to be possessed. Everyone thought it's impossible. So: let execute him – if you support to execute non compos mentis people. ___ And please not compare this with that Anders did. If you say, I support Anders, I will say yes. But I never said, there's not any reason to execute Anders. The blood in his hand. Only I will not do that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 6, 2018 20:50:51 GMT
When it comes to how to deal with Pharamond, Evangeline had the right idea when she tried to kill him. That man killed dozens of innocent people yet people like Rhys and Wynne wanted him to not be punished for that. Then again this isn't the first time mages and pro-mage fans don't care about innocent civilians. Those people are fair game to them as long as the mages get what they want. You want me to repeat myself? Okay, let it be! Of course, Pharamond's body committed mass murder. As possessed – so, he was not himself. But when he possessed, he was a Tranquil. The Tranquility is a weird mental state. He only saw the task, what he got from the Divine – and he found the solution. Without emotion, you can't control yourself. Everything just easy and clear. He found the way. There was no moral that restrained him. As a Tranquil, with a mutilated mind – he was compos mentis.He didn't have any desire – he possessed because the solution of his task was in the fade – so, he found a way to summon a spirit. And I suppose he didn't even know, that a tranquil able to be possessed. Everyone thought it's impossible. So: let execute him – if you support to execute compos mentis people. ___ And please not compare this with that Anders did. If you say, I support Anders, I will say yes. But I never said, there's not any reason to execute Anders. The blood in his hand. Only I will not do that. Evangeline is a Templar. Her duty involves killing mages who have committed crimes against the people of Thedas. Pharamond is a prime example of that kind of person. The fact that he had no moral qualms doesn't absolve him. Sociopaths don't either yet we don't let them get away with it because of that. Plus heck Pharamond even wanted to die so is it really murder at that point or assisted suicide? I do support the execution of compos mentis people if they committed crimes that warrant the death penalty. Just look at my opinion of other characters who have committed terrible acts like Anders, Thom Rainier, Isabela, Loghain, etc. Why shouldn't I? Both are abominations who killed at least dozens of innocent people.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 6, 2018 21:10:22 GMT
You want me to repeat myself? Okay, let it be! Of course, Pharamond's body committed mass murder. As possessed – so, he was not himself. But when he possessed, he was a Tranquil. The Tranquility is a weird mental state. He only saw the task, what he got from the Divine – and he found the solution. Without emotion, you can't control yourself. Everything just easy and clear. He found the way. There was no moral that restrained him.
As a Tranquil, with a mutilated mind – he was non compos mentis.
He didn't have any desire – he possessed because the solution of his task was in the fade – so, he found a way to summon a spirit. And I suppose he didn't even know, that a tranquil able to be possessed. Everyone thought it's impossible.
So: let execute him – if you support to execute compos mentis people. ___
And please not compare this with that Anders did. If you say, I support Anders, I will say yes. But I never said, there's not any reason to execute Anders. The blood in his hand. Only I will not do that. Evangeline is a Templar. Her duty involves killing mages who have committed crimes against the people of Thedas. Pharamond is a prime example of that kind of person. The fact that he had no moral qualms doesn't absolve him. Sociopaths don't either yet we don't let them get away with it because of that. Plus heck Pharamond even wanted to die so is it really murder at that point or assisted suicide? I do support the execution of compos mentis people if they committed crimes that warrant the death penalty. Just look at my opinion of other characters who have committed terrible acts like Anders, Thom Rainier, Isabela, Loghain, etc. Why shouldn't I? Both are abominations who killed at least dozens of innocent people. It's very disturbing. Anders, Thom Ranier, Isabela and Loghain aren't non compos mentis. 1. I had a problem with Tranquilizing him again, and as you said, you also have a problem with Tranquilizing anyone who doesn't agree with it. He rather wanted to die. So: I suppose if they would kill him I would see as some compromise – but I wouldn't support. 2. Because he's not that man, who killed those. Not possessed and not even Tranquil. And to let him live would help in the experiment. In this case, he would continue his work – if he wants it. 3. And why shouldn't compare Anders and Pharamond? Because Anders' responsible, what I can't say the same thing about Pharamond.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 6, 2018 21:11:15 GMT
Evangeline is a Templar. Her duty involves killing mages who have committed crimes against the people of Thedas. Pharamond is a prime example of that kind of person. The fact that he had no moral qualms doesn't absolve him. Sociopaths don't either yet we don't let them get away with it because of that. Plus heck Pharamond even wanted to die so is it really murder at that point or assisted suicide? I do support the execution of compos mentis people if they committed crimes that warrant the death penalty. Just look at my opinion of other characters who have committed terrible acts like Anders, Thom Rainier, Isabela, Loghain, etc. Why shouldn't I? Both are abominations who killed at least dozens of innocent people. It's very disturbing. Anders, Thom Ranier, Isabela and Loghain aren't compos mentis. 1. I had a problem with Tranquilizing him again, and as you said, you also have a problem with Tranquilizing anyone who doesn't agree with it. He rather wanted to die. So: I suppose if they would kill him I would see as some compromise – but I wouldn't support. 2. Because he's not that man, who killed those. Not possessed and not even Tranquil. And to let him live would help in the experiment. In this case, he would continue his work – if he wants it. 3. And why shouldn't compare Anders and Pharamond? Because Anders' responsible, why I can't say the same thing about Pharamond. Yes they are. Compos mentis: having full control of one's mind; sane.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 6, 2018 21:16:45 GMT
It's very disturbing. Anders, Thom Ranier, Isabela and Loghain aren't non compos mentis. 1. I had a problem with Tranquilizing him again, and as you said, you also have a problem with Tranquilizing anyone who doesn't agree with it. He rather wanted to die. So: I suppose if they would kill him I would see as some compromise – but I wouldn't support. 2. Because he's not that man, who killed those. Not possessed and not even Tranquil. And to let him live would help in the experiment. In this case, he would continue his work – if he wants it. 3. And why shouldn't compare Anders and Pharamond? Because Anders' responsible, why I can't say the same thing about Pharamond. Yes they are. Compos mentis: having full control of one's mind; sane. Fuck! I just forget to write "non" word. I know what means "compos mentis". Fixed. The point was: Anders, Isabela, Thom Renier and Loghain were responsible. Then you now able to answer my question? Do you support non compos mentis people's execution? Or you just wanted to avoid the question?
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 7, 2018 1:22:03 GMT
1.) Cassandra talks about it in dialogue with Solas. She remarks that he was completely uncontrollable with his emotions (and the book confirms this). Solas remarks that such a man would indeed be incredibly vulnerable to possession.
My opinion is that Tranquility should be reserved for magical criminals, people who request it, and people who can't handle magic because they will get possessed.
2.) Why was Samson not "mutiliated?" Samson was expelled from the Templar Order. Given the effect lyrium withdrawal has on Templars, you can argue it is much the same. I guess you're okay with that because he's not a mage, so he gets what he deserves?
What did Meredith do that was against Chantry law? Tranquility may still be given to mages who pass their Harrowing if they break the law. All it requires is three things: Permission from the Knight-Commander, permission from the First Enchanter, and "significant provocation." You can get that after the Harrowing.
3.) Then there's nothing to say. If you aren't willing to deal with adult problems, then don't expect me to treat your opinion as such.
4.) Patterns exist until the moment they don't. Facts above all, kid. 1. Cassandra didn't even saw him. And not, in the book, Pharamond seems flooded by emotions, but I found it natural in his mental state. He would deserve some time – not mentioned, if anyone would really want to reverse the Tranquility – the changes of his behaviour would be very useful. And there's this conversation – Solas just says what I said as well: a potential danger, but there a chance to recover. And Cassandra doesn't oppose, in fact, she says: "That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake." Cassandra: Solas, I assume you know it's possible to reverse the Rite of Tranquility. Solas: I did hear of what you learned, yes. Cassandra: I know of only one mage thus cured, and... he had no control of his emotions. He was distraught. Do you think that would have passed? If the Tranquil are cured only to end up thus... Solas: They would be a danger to themselves and others, yes. It is difficult to say. In your Vigil, you were Tranquil for but a moment. They have suffered much longer. Such control is like a muscle, atrophying without use. Given time it might be restored, but until then... Cassandra: That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake. Solas: They will be grateful... even the ones who do not survive. So: Cassandra is more intelligent – than you're. Thank you reminded me of this conversation. I totally forget that. Your opinion about the Tranquility, compared, what you write about that the Tranquility was justifiable in Maddox's case, is at least interesting. 2. Because of Samson and Maddox participated in the same act – it presumes the same consequences – and it's a very cruel method, but not really same as the Tranquility. (I expected that answer from you, and yes, to keep the Templars on a lyrium leash is evil too. The whole system is unacceptable – it just justified that.) But I think you missed the part of my comment that: "No matter: no one of them deserved that punishment what they got" So: neither Maddox the Tranquility, nor Samson to be expelled. But sadly, you're right about the Chantry's law, if we can consider Maddox's case as a "significant provocation". Can you? Because of I not. And even would be surprised, if Orsino gave his permission, but of course, we don't know that. And Cullen says in the Inquisition that Meredith made Tranquil some mages for lesser "sins" like a love letter... these are also "significant provocations"? And not against the law? So you think, that Meredith was law-abiding? 3. To support the slavery's law and help to slaveholders to got back their escaped property is an "adult problem". And you're an adult. Again: I'm glad, I'm such a childish. 4. Okay. The duck's not a duck. 1.) Asunder clearly displays that Pharamond is utterly emotional and a complete wreck. She doesn't have to be there: She just needs to be correct. You also have no idea what risks are, again, perhaps due to your lack of comprehension of English. She admits that such a creature as Pharamond is not only a danger from demons. She also mentions that the reversal was only tried once. You would never popularize something you've only tried once, you have no idea what might happen. Not to mention you'd have to create an abomination to make it work. 2.) As far as the templars know at the time, Tranquility is not possible for non-mages. So why would they give them the same thing when one is exclusively for mages. And yes, it is a significant provocation to defy a direct order and coerce (by whichever means) a templar in order to do it. We don't know if Orsino gave permission or not, but that's only because we don't know if he was First Enchanter at the time or not. He would have certainly given the permission. Provided Meredith obtained permission, she followed the rules. If you don't like the rules, you try and change them.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 4:05:34 GMT
1. Cassandra didn't even saw him. And not, in the book, Pharamond seems flooded by emotions, but I found it natural in his mental state. He would deserve some time – not mentioned, if anyone would really want to reverse the Tranquility – the changes of his behaviour would be very useful. And there's this conversation – Solas just says what I said as well: a potential danger, but there a chance to recover. And Cassandra doesn't oppose, in fact, she says: "That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake." Cassandra: Solas, I assume you know it's possible to reverse the Rite of Tranquility. Solas: I did hear of what you learned, yes. Cassandra: I know of only one mage thus cured, and... he had no control of his emotions. He was distraught. Do you think that would have passed? If the Tranquil are cured only to end up thus... Solas: They would be a danger to themselves and others, yes. It is difficult to say. In your Vigil, you were Tranquil for but a moment. They have suffered much longer. Such control is like a muscle, atrophying without use. Given time it might be restored, but until then... Cassandra: That may be a risk we are obligated to undertake. Solas: They will be grateful... even the ones who do not survive. So: Cassandra is more intelligent – than you're. Thank you reminded me of this conversation. I totally forget that. Your opinion about the Tranquility, compared, what you write about that the Tranquility was justifiable in Maddox's case, is at least interesting. 2. Because of Samson and Maddox participated in the same act – it presumes the same consequences – and it's a very cruel method, but not really same as the Tranquility. (I expected that answer from you, and yes, to keep the Templars on a lyrium leash is evil too. The whole system is unacceptable – it just justified that.) But I think you missed the part of my comment that: "No matter: no one of them deserved that punishment what they got" So: neither Maddox the Tranquility, nor Samson to be expelled. But sadly, you're right about the Chantry's law, if we can consider Maddox's case as a "significant provocation". Can you? Because of I not. And even would be surprised, if Orsino gave his permission, but of course, we don't know that. And Cullen says in the Inquisition that Meredith made Tranquil some mages for lesser "sins" like a love letter... these are also "significant provocations"? And not against the law? So you think, that Meredith was law-abiding? 3. To support the slavery's law and help to slaveholders to got back their escaped property is an "adult problem". And you're an adult. Again: I'm glad, I'm such a childish. 4. Okay. The duck's not a duck. 1.) Asunder clearly displays that Pharamond is utterly emotional and a complete wreck. She doesn't have to be there: She just needs to be correct. You also have no idea what risks are, again, perhaps due to your lack of comprehension of English. She admits that such a creature as Pharamond is not only a danger from demons. She also mentions that the reversal was only tried once. You would never popularize something you've only tried once, you have no idea what might happen. Not to mention you'd have to create an abomination to make it work. 2.) As far as the templars know at the time, Tranquility is not possible for non-mages. So why would they give them the same thing when one is exclusively for mages. And yes, it is a significant provocation to defy a direct order and coerce (by whichever means) a templar in order to do it. We don't know if Orsino gave permission or not, but that's only because we don't know if he was First Enchanter at the time or not. He would have certainly given the permission. Provided Meredith obtained permission, she followed the rules. If you don't like the rules, you try and change them. 1. Cassandra clearly more intelligent than you, and not because my English is weak. And the paranoia not depends on the language skills. If you mean, I didn't understand the Asunder because my bad English, it's not right. I read the book in my language. But I see, your only argument is my English, so: enjoy it, it doesn't bother me. 2. The Tranquility to mages like the dead, or worse. I see you believe this love letter was so "significant provocation" he deserved capital punishment. (I don't think, even Meredith asked for Orsino's agreement – but this is just me.). And even who committed lesser things than a love letter (for example, too loudly protests against that a Templar takes a "visit" in his/her room) deserves to be a Tranquil, because whatever what this "sin" that the mage committed, counts "significant provocation" – and this fits the Chantry's and the Circles' law and the spirit of the law.. I see... So: I agree: they must try to change this law. Well, Anders started this change. By the way, I always thought, Meredith was a lawbreaker, because there's no such a law that would allow this – the Chantry wouldn't allow it – but if you're right, and I was wrong. According to your explanation, the Southern Andrastian Chantry serves the evil – if not the evil itself. But the problem is, I still believe, Meredith was a lawbreaker. It proved that Cassandra felt guilty because of the Seekers didn't investigate it, and prevented her crimes. Despite I don't agree with the Chantry, and I think, the Chantry's corrupt. but I still don't believe it would that evil, as you presented – while this "law" in this form is evil as fuck.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 7, 2018 10:09:33 GMT
1.) Asunder clearly displays that Pharamond is utterly emotional and a complete wreck. She doesn't have to be there: She just needs to be correct. You also have no idea what risks are, again, perhaps due to your lack of comprehension of English. She admits that such a creature as Pharamond is not only a danger from demons. She also mentions that the reversal was only tried once. You would never popularize something you've only tried once, you have no idea what might happen. Not to mention you'd have to create an abomination to make it work.
2.) As far as the templars know at the time, Tranquility is not possible for non-mages. So why would they give them the same thing when one is exclusively for mages.
And yes, it is a significant provocation to defy a direct order and coerce (by whichever means) a templar in order to do it. We don't know if Orsino gave permission or not, but that's only because we don't know if he was First Enchanter at the time or not. He would have certainly given the permission.
Provided Meredith obtained permission, she followed the rules. If you don't like the rules, you try and change them. 1. Cassandra clearly more intelligent than you, and not because my English is weak. And the paranoia not depends on the language skills. If you mean, I didn't understand the Asunder because my bad English, it's not right. I read the book in my language. But I see, your only argument is my English, so: enjoy it, it doesn't bother me. 2. The Tranquility to mages like the dead, or worse. I see you believe this love letter was so "significant provocation" he deserved capital punishment. (I don't think, even Meredith asked for Orsino's agreement – but this is just me.). And even who committed lesser things than a love letter (for example, too loudly protests against that a Templar takes a "visit" in his/her room) deserves to be a Tranquil, because whatever what this "sin" that the mage committed, counts "significant provocation" – and this fits the Chantry's and the Circles' law and the spirit of the law.. I see... So: I agree: they must try to change this law. Well, Anders started this change. By the way, I always thought, Meredith was a lawbreaker, because there's no such a law that would allow this – the Chantry wouldn't allow it – but if you're right, and I was wrong. According to your explanation, the Southern Andrastian Chantry serves the evil – if not the evil itself. But the problem is, I still believe, Meredith was a lawbreaker. It proved that Cassandra felt guilty because of the Seekers didn't investigate it, and prevented her crimes. Despite I don't agree with the Chantry, and I think, the Chantry's corrupt. but I still don't believe it would that evil, as you presented – while this "law" in this form is evil as fuck. 1.) You don't have an argument. Cassandra reasons that someone is a terrible danger, but thinks the risk is worth it. I think that completing a dangerous procedure once (particularly when you no longer have the recipient of said procedure around to ask questions of him) is something best done carefully. You, however, would be fine with the world burning. 2.) You need to provide proof that Meredith didn't ask for it. Recall that this happened before Meredith had the lyrium sword. A long time before. You also need to provide evidence that someone abused by a templar wasn't punished. Again, the only person whose word we have to go on is Anders. And Anders has lied repeatedly. Anders blew up people who had nothing to do with the Circle. You sound like the person who would cheer on the killing of innocent people just because your boyfriend does it. ** Comment removed ArcadiaGrey
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 10:24:19 GMT
** Edging into dangerous territory again. Keep it friendly.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 13:36:27 GMT
1. Cassandra clearly more intelligent than you, and not because my English is weak. And the paranoia not depends on the language skills. If you mean, I didn't understand the Asunder because my bad English, it's not right. I read the book in my language. But I see, your only argument is my English, so: enjoy it, it doesn't bother me. 2. The Tranquility to mages like the dead, or worse. I see you believe this love letter was so "significant provocation" he deserved capital punishment. (I don't think, even Meredith asked for Orsino's agreement – but this is just me.). And even who committed lesser things than a love letter (for example, too loudly protests against that a Templar takes a "visit" in his/her room) deserves to be a Tranquil, because whatever what this "sin" that the mage committed, counts "significant provocation" – and this fits the Chantry's and the Circles' law and the spirit of the law.. I see... So: I agree: they must try to change this law. Well, Anders started this change. By the way, I always thought, Meredith was a lawbreaker, because there's no such a law that would allow this – the Chantry wouldn't allow it – but if you're right, and I was wrong. According to your explanation, the Southern Andrastian Chantry serves the evil – if not the evil itself. But the problem is, I still believe, Meredith was a lawbreaker. It proved that Cassandra felt guilty because of the Seekers didn't investigate it, and prevented her crimes. Despite I don't agree with the Chantry, and I think, the Chantry's corrupt. but I still don't believe it would that evil, as you presented – while this "law" in this form is evil as fuck. 1.) You don't have an argument. Cassandra reasons that someone is a terrible danger, but thinks the risk is worth it. I think that completing a dangerous procedure once (particularly when you no longer have the recipient of said procedure around to ask questions of him) is something best done carefully. You, however, would be fine with the world burning. 2.) You need to provide proof that Meredith didn't ask for it. Recall that this happened before Meredith had the lyrium sword. A long time before. You also need to provide evidence that someone abused by a templar wasn't punished. Again, the only person whose word we have to go on is Anders. And Anders has lied repeatedly. Anders blew up people who had nothing to do with the Circle. You sound like the person who would cheer on the killing of innocent people just because your boyfriend does it. ** Comment removed ArcadiaGrey 1. Yes. And this was the point. Dangerous, but worth it. In fact a duty to try it (obligatory, she said). This is what Cassandra said. You referred to her – as someone who agrees with Lambert's idiotism. It's clear she much more open-minded, but you ignore that, as everything else that not fits your delusions. 2. I don't need to prove, because I said, it's not sure. My theory based on that when the First Enchanter dead without a successor, Meredith declared, she doesn't need First Enchanter – then Orsino dared to take it, just because he saw a little chance to protect his people from the suicidal (and the Senior Enchanters supported him). So: Meredith didn't care about the law, since the moment, when she took her position as Knight Commander. She didn't ignore the law totally (of course not, she needed some semblance), but she not really cared about the law, especially not about the spirit of the law (what is a valid legal term). "In 9:28 Dragon, First Enchanter Maceron died without a successor. Knight-Commander Meredith was of the opinion that there was no need for a new First Enchanter as theTemplars ran the Gallows with little interference from Maceron. Orsino realized that the mages would need someone to advocate on their behalf lest the templars rob what few liberties they had left. Thus Orsino volunteered to be First Enchanter, and the other senior enchanters rallied behind him. Some claim he became the youngest first enchanter to hold the position in Kirkwall not by his own merit, but because nobody else wanted it. "
So: I based my opinion on this information (Wiki: Orsino), but I know, you will ignore that, just as you ignored what Cassandra really said about the Tranquils and the Tranquility. Meredith was not the woman of the law – she was a criminal, the red lyrium has nothing to do with this. Perhaps she knew the letter of law, but she worked on how she can circumvent the law – break the law. The red lyrium possessed her mind – but she was paranoid and criminal even before. I know you can't accept that. I proved that with screenshots to you – but you didn't accept these screenshots as proof – because the mages said, and Thrasks, so totally unnecessary to prove to you. according to you even Alain deserved to be raped by Karras because he's just an escaped mag – and of course he lied about it. Anders lied only ONCE. Everything that he said about the Circle and the mages – proved. But you don't need to accept the proof, you can believe, that the Kirkwall Circle is a good Circle, where never happened rapes and abuses, and Meredith's an icon of the good Templar – of course, she is: her monument in the Gallows proves it.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 13:38:32 GMT
Edging into dangerous territory again. Keep it friendly. It's possible to keep it civilized (at least I try my best), but it's impossible to keep friendly to me. Sorry about it. I know, I should leave the conversation, it not worth anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 13:48:32 GMT
Edging into dangerous territory again. Keep it friendly. It possible to keep it civilized (at least I try my best), but it's impossible to keep friendly to me. Sorry about it. I know, I should leave the conversation, it not worth anymore. You didn't do anything this time Cat, but oh boy do you manage to poke people. Maybe walk away a little more often, you know on those occasions when it's clear you disagree 100%. <----- Could say that to a few other people too. The truth is that if it ends up getting nasty we'll have to lock the thread again, and that would just ruin everyone's fun.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 14:16:55 GMT
It possible to keep it civilized (at least I try my best), but it's impossible to keep friendly to me. Sorry about it. I know, I should leave the conversation, it not worth anymore. You didn't do anything this time Cat, but oh boy do you manage to poke people. Maybe walk away a little more often, you know on those occasions when it's clear you disagree 100%. <----- Could say that to a few other people too. The truth is that if it ends up getting nasty we'll have to lock the thread again, and that would just ruin everyone's fun. Perhaps, this is my best – I never said, I'm perfect. Don't need to lock this topic – if depends on me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 14:25:05 GMT
You didn't do anything this time Cat, but oh boy do you manage to poke people. Maybe walk away a little more often, you know on those occasions when it's clear you disagree 100%. <----- Could say that to a few other people too. The truth is that if it ends up getting nasty we'll have to lock the thread again, and that would just ruin everyone's fun. Perhaps, this is my best – I never said, I'm perfect. Don't need to lock this topic – if depends on me. I was teasing, you also keep the conversation going and are passionate about the games. It'll only get to that point if lots of people start insulting each other. Hopefully that won't happen and it'll all be good.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 7, 2018 16:35:41 GMT
You didn't do anything this time Cat, but oh boy do you manage to poke people. Maybe walk away a little more often, you know on those occasions when it's clear you disagree 100%. <----- Could say that to a few other people too. The truth is that if it ends up getting nasty we'll have to lock the thread again, and that would just ruin everyone's fun. Perhaps, this is my best – I never said, I'm perfect. Don't need to lock this topic – if depends on me. You have some controversial stances, Catalina. Some are extreme, but you're overall a polite one. At least during the times we've debated, you never strawmanned my position, made annoying overgeneralized remarks about an entire opposing side, made personal insults (without eventual provocation), and listened to the argument as intended. So no, it's not on just you. It's on all of us to be civil. It's not just the pro mage side, it's not just the pro templar side, both sides are going to have compelling arguments and both will have extreme views with some members.
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Post by duskwanderer on Aug 7, 2018 20:11:41 GMT
1.) You don't have an argument. Cassandra reasons that someone is a terrible danger, but thinks the risk is worth it. I think that completing a dangerous procedure once (particularly when you no longer have the recipient of said procedure around to ask questions of him) is something best done carefully. You, however, would be fine with the world burning. 2.) You need to provide proof that Meredith didn't ask for it. Recall that this happened before Meredith had the lyrium sword. A long time before. You also need to provide evidence that someone abused by a templar wasn't punished. Again, the only person whose word we have to go on is Anders. And Anders has lied repeatedly. Anders blew up people who had nothing to do with the Circle. You sound like the person who would cheer on the killing of innocent people just because your boyfriend does it. ** Comment removed ArcadiaGrey 1. Yes. And this was the point. Dangerous, but worth it. In fact a duty to try it (obligatory, she said). This is what Cassandra said. You referred to her – as someone who agrees with Lambert's idiotism. It's clear she much more open-minded, but you ignore that, as everything else that not fits your delusions. 2. I don't need to prove, because I said, it's not sure. My theory based on that when the First Enchanter dead without a successor, Meredith declared, she doesn't need First Enchanter – then Orsino dared to take it, just because he saw a little chance to protect his people from the suicidal (and the Senior Enchanters supported him). So: Meredith didn't care about the law, since the moment, when she took her position as Knight Commander. She didn't ignore the law totally (of course not, she needed some semblance), but she not really cared about the law, especially not about the spirit of the law (what is a valid legal term). "In 9:28 Dragon, First Enchanter Maceron died without a successor. Knight-Commander Meredith was of the opinion that there was no need for a new First Enchanter as theTemplars ran the Gallows with little interference from Maceron. Orsino realized that the mages would need someone to advocate on their behalf lest the templars rob what few liberties they had left. Thus Orsino volunteered to be First Enchanter, and the other senior enchanters rallied behind him. Some claim he became the youngest first enchanter to hold the position in Kirkwall not by his own merit, but because nobody else wanted it. "
So: I based my opinion on this information (Wiki: Orsino), but I know, you will ignore that, just as you ignored what Cassandra really said about the Tranquils and the Tranquility. Meredith was not the woman of the law – she was a criminal, the red lyrium has nothing to do with this. Perhaps she knew the letter of law, but she worked on how she can circumvent the law – break the law. The red lyrium possessed her mind – but she was paranoid and criminal even before. I know you can't accept that. I proved that with screenshots to you – but you didn't accept these screenshots as proof – because the mages said, and Thrasks, so totally unnecessary to prove to you. according to you even Alain deserved to be raped by Karras because he's just an escaped mag – and of course he lied about it. Anders lied only ONCE. Everything that he said about the Circle and the mages – proved. But you don't need to accept the proof, you can believe, that the Kirkwall Circle is a good Circle, where never happened rapes and abuses, and Meredith's an icon of the good Templar – of course, she is: her monument in the Gallows proves it. Sorry, dearheart, but that's not what she says. She says she has an obligation to try it. Not an obligation to do it to everyone, or to charge off recklessly. She is being cautious with something she doesn't truly know, particularly since the only person who would know is dead. You don't seem to grasp that. Nothing in the codex, as far as I know, states that the Circle -MUST- have a First Enchanter. ** Comment removed due to rules violation - ArcadiaGrey
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 20:16:41 GMT
1. Yes. And this was the point. Dangerous, but worth it. In fact a duty to try it (obligatory, she said). This is what Cassandra said. You referred to her – as someone who agrees with Lambert's idiotism. It's clear she much more open-minded, but you ignore that, as everything else that not fits your delusions. 2. I don't need to prove, because I said, it's not sure. My theory based on that when the First Enchanter dead without a successor, Meredith declared, she doesn't need First Enchanter – then Orsino dared to take it, just because he saw a little chance to protect his people from the suicidal (and the Senior Enchanters supported him). So: Meredith didn't care about the law, since the moment, when she took her position as Knight Commander. She didn't ignore the law totally (of course not, she needed some semblance), but she not really cared about the law, especially not about the spirit of the law (what is a valid legal term). "In 9:28 Dragon, First Enchanter Maceron died without a successor. Knight-Commander Meredith was of the opinion that there was no need for a new First Enchanter as theTemplars ran the Gallows with little interference from Maceron. Orsino realized that the mages would need someone to advocate on their behalf lest the templars rob what few liberties they had left. Thus Orsino volunteered to be First Enchanter, and the other senior enchanters rallied behind him. Some claim he became the youngest first enchanter to hold the position in Kirkwall not by his own merit, but because nobody else wanted it. "
So: I based my opinion on this information (Wiki: Orsino), but I know, you will ignore that, just as you ignored what Cassandra really said about the Tranquils and the Tranquility. Meredith was not the woman of the law – she was a criminal, the red lyrium has nothing to do with this. Perhaps she knew the letter of law, but she worked on how she can circumvent the law – break the law. The red lyrium possessed her mind – but she was paranoid and criminal even before. I know you can't accept that. I proved that with screenshots to you – but you didn't accept these screenshots as proof – because the mages said, and Thrasks, so totally unnecessary to prove to you. according to you even Alain deserved to be raped by Karras because he's just an escaped mag – and of course he lied about it. Anders lied only ONCE. Everything that he said about the Circle and the mages – proved. But you don't need to accept the proof, you can believe, that the Kirkwall Circle is a good Circle, where never happened rapes and abuses, and Meredith's an icon of the good Templar – of course, she is: her monument in the Gallows proves it. Sorry, dearheart, but that's not what she says. She says she has an obligation to try it. Not an obligation to do it to everyone, or to charge off recklessly. She is being cautious with something she doesn't truly know, particularly since the only person who would know is dead. You don't seem to grasp that. Nothing in the codex, as far as I know, states that the Circle -MUST- have a First Enchanter. Your "arguments" nothing. You ignore every proofs. And now: stop it!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 21:02:15 GMT
Sorry, dearheart, but that's not what she says. She says she has an obligation to try it. Not an obligation to do it to everyone, or to charge off recklessly. She is being cautious with something she doesn't truly know, particularly since the only person who would know is dead. You don't seem to grasp that.
Nothing in the codex, as far as I know, states that the Circle -MUST- have a First Enchanter. Your "arguments" nothing. You ignore every proofs. And now: stop it! ** And stop it he will. That went too far so I've been in contact with Dusk, and it's been dealt with accordingly.
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