N7Pathfinder
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Aug 30, 2018 20:13:52 GMT
In a recent tweet, Mark Darrah responded to a question about whether they will be dialogue choices in the game. He answered yes, and that they will be binary.
I'm not sure if by binary they mean they are going to ditch the traditional dialogue wheel for a new UI that only has two options, or if it means a return to the Paragon, Renegade system of dialogue choices from Mass Effect. Regardless, it seems like Bioware is avoiding the more open-ended decisions based more on emotions like in Dragon Inquisition or Mass Effect Andromeda.
What are your thoughts?
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Post by river82 on Aug 30, 2018 22:16:54 GMT
In a recent tweet, Mark Darrah responded to a question about whether they will be dialogue choices in the game. He answered yes, and that they will be binary. I'm not sure if by binary they mean they are going to ditch the traditional dialogue wheel for a new UI that only has two options, or if it means a return to the Paragon, Renegade system of dialogue choices from Mass Effect. Regardless, it seems like Bioware is avoiding the more open-ended decisions based more on emotions like in Dragon Inquisition or Mass Effect Andromeda. What are your thoughts? There'll be two options. And my thoughts are Bioware are continuing to strip choice from their games
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Post by river82 on Aug 30, 2018 22:47:04 GMT
In any other AAA game, no. But that's one reason why I'm loving the AA/Indie market much more at the moment:
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 30, 2018 23:16:05 GMT
It's a shooter first and a "My Story" a distant second.
Forget about a dialogue system created for "deep characters". The personal narrative is all about what our char does in Fort Tarsis . Choices like:
(1) Join faction A or B or C... (2) Speak to NPC A or B or... and make friends.
(3) Buy gear A or B... and/or upgrade and or do your own. (3) Get drunk in bar A or B or .... (4) Talk to mission givers and accept or reject ( --> binary choice)
(5) Sell gear (6) Talk to NPC to generate hype about yourself and mission quest successes to create "the story" in Fort Tarsis.
Since more is forthcoming in a few days.... I'll wait and see Bio's corp speak on this subject.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Aug 30, 2018 23:40:51 GMT
I honestly don't have a problem with games that present the "illusion of choice". Sure it's not as neat as a more full-fledged RPG game, but I feel that games that at least give the illusion that your choices affect how others see you feel more personal than just the practical how does the choice change the story.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Aug 30, 2018 23:41:27 GMT
To me, it seems like the choices will more or less be a solid agree or disagree option.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 31, 2018 0:19:09 GMT
In a recent tweet, Mark Darrah responded to a question about whether they will be dialogue choices in the game. He answered yes, and that they will be binary. I'm not sure if by binary they mean they are going to ditch the traditional dialogue wheel for a new UI that only has two options, or if it means a return to the Paragon, Renegade system of dialogue choices from Mass Effect. Regardless, it seems like Bioware is avoiding the more open-ended decisions based more on emotions like in Dragon Inquisition or Mass Effect Andromeda. What are your thoughts? There'll be two options. And my thoughts are Bioware are continuing to strip choice from their games Considering that this is a multiplayer game, I was totally expecting none at all. Perhaps I’ve been on Destiny too long.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 31, 2018 0:21:29 GMT
I'm sure this is disappointing for some, but it's important to still put this into perspective. In terms of RPG's (as a whole), yeah, Binary dialogue choices aren't very appealing nowadays. But Anthem isn't really a full-blown RPG. It's a shared-world shooter with RPG elements. Consider many other games within this same (shared-world shooter) market, and few - if any - of them include dialogue choices at all. Not Destiny. Not the Division. I can't speak for Warframe, but I think they've been trying to provide a more cinematic experience with recent releases.
Binary choices in Anthem doesn't look that inspired when looking at the RPG genre as a whole, but when looking at it from the genre it's set in, it's a pretty big (and positive) change. What's important to me is how much depth is behind this system and our actions, as well as how they affect Fort Tarsis.
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 31, 2018 1:36:57 GMT
xd Apple @apple_seed510 What do you mean by binary choices
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah 2 choices as opposed to more
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 31, 2018 1:44:52 GMT
A lot of glass half empty replies so far. Personally, I'm seeing this as glass half full -- what other Destiny-like game has any choices whatsoever? Or even dialogue?
Thinking about Anthem as a Destiny-like game with the addition of Bioware secret sauce is, imo, better aligned with their intention, than Anthem being a Bioware-like game stripped down to appeal to the Destiny crowd.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 31, 2018 1:53:42 GMT
A lot of glass half empty replies so far. Personally, I'm seeing this as glass half full -- what other Destiny-like game has any choices whatsoever? Or even dialogue? Thinking about Anthem as a Destiny-like game with the addition of Bioware secret sauce is, imo, better aligned with their intention, than Anthem being a Bioware-like game stripped down to appeal to the Destiny crowd. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="3.6999999999999886" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 3.6999999999999886px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_63679845" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="3.6999999999999886" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 3.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_76450290" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="3.6999999999999886" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 3.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 125px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_89273783" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="3.6999999999999886" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 3.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 125px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_65392499" scrolling="no"></iframe> To be honest, I'd prefer the mute protagonist over having only two options. At least then our character's personality is left up to our imagination rather than being super predefined like this.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 3:26:12 GMT
I personally think this is the best approach for a game like this. Otherwise it would be repeating the same problems I had with the story in Andromeda. Where not having something established to anchor the unknowns on for when I wasn't doing a critical path mission the game was boring to play because there was nothing.
Then again, after seeing some of the reactions to the new Spider-Man and its puddles or Cyberpunk and how a two second animation isn't accurate to reality it just seems to be that people are going to take offense to anything a developer releases anymore.
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Post by helios969 on Aug 31, 2018 9:46:29 GMT
I personally think this is the best approach for a game like this. Otherwise it would be repeating the same problems I had with the story in Andromeda. Where not having something established to anchor the unknowns on for when I wasn't doing a critical path mission the game was boring to play because there was nothing. Then again, after seeing some of the reactions to the new Spider-Man and its puddles or Cyberpunk and how a two second animation isn't accurate to reality it just seems to be that people are going to take offense to anything a developer releases anymore. Of course one could claim MEA was a subtly disguised binary RP system given how rarely you could actually make more than 2 choices in conversations.
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Post by legbamel on Aug 31, 2018 12:16:18 GMT
I don't assume that a dialogue will be a monologue where our character only responds at the end. If we're having a discussion each choice may be binary but that will shape the rest if the conversation. Then there will be another choice, and perhaps another. I'm not picturing a series of yes or no questions!
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 31, 2018 12:36:55 GMT
I'm sure this is disappointing for some, but it's important to still put this into perspective. In terms of RPG's (as a whole), yeah, Binary dialogue choices aren't very appealing nowadays. But Anthem isn't really a full-blown RPG. It's a shared-world shooter with RPG elements. Consider many other games within this same (shared-world shooter) market, and few - if any - of them include dialogue choices at all. Not Destiny. Not the Division. I can't speak for Warframe, but I think they've been trying to provide a more cinematic experience with recent releases.Binary choices in Anthem doesn't look that inspired when looking at the RPG genre as a whole, but when looking at it from the genre it's set in, it's a pretty big (and positive) change. What's important to me is how much depth is behind this system and our actions, as well as how they affect Fort Tarsis. Warframe's older quests usually have no player dialogue options at all, but the newer ones, starting with "The Second Dream", usually have player roleplaying choices. These dialogues generally offer three choices that represent Light, Balance and Shadow. Your choices are saved and an icon that represents your character's overall leaning is displayed in your profile. However, so far I have seen only one character in the game react to it - the infested monster in the rear of my orbiter of all things.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 31, 2018 20:57:11 GMT
xd Apple @apple_seed510
What do you mean by binary choices Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
2 choices as opposed to more "Evolution"
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 1, 2018 1:01:45 GMT
xd Apple @apple_seed510
What do you mean by binary choices Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah
2 choices as opposed to more "Evolution" Depends on how you define evolution. Sure Bioware is moving away from the core RPG genre and are now trying to try out more streamlined action genres with RPG elements in it. I don't mind this binary choice idea, since when you think about it, most Bioware games in the past have been pretty binary with their decisions (good or evil, paragon or renegade), they just had more dialogue choices to add flavor to what you agree on.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 1, 2018 1:05:33 GMT
"Evolution" Depends on how you define evolution. Sure Bioware is moving away from the core RPG genre and are now trying to try out more streamlined action genres with RPG elements in it. I don't mind this binary choice idea, since when you think about it, most Bioware games in the past have been pretty binary with their decisions (good or evil, paragon or renegade), they just had more dialogue choices to add flavor to what you agree on. Yeah, they are "evolving" their way to being pure shooter/action games.
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Post by malgus on Sept 1, 2018 15:18:51 GMT
It might not be that different from the previous 3 mass effect, the first mass effect sometime told you that you had 3 choices when sometimes, it was not all true. Sometime, the line shepard answered whatever your choice had the exact same text with the exact same tone, the recording was the same but the game just told you that you had 3 option. In some cases, you had 2 (as the one in the middle was sometime the same as the upper or lower choices) and as said before, sometime you had none. The wheel gave you an illusion of choice but you never had such a thing in the first places in many instances.
Then came ME 2 who was the same but just more upfront about it, you didn't have a wheel every time shepard was going to talk after taking an option, this way it allow for a more fluid conversation instead of breaking the rythm every time a wheel appears, having our character responds with small answer helped the narration going before we had another choice. Also tons of dialogue instances only had 2 options, but unlike ME 1, ME 2 was simply honest about it.
Then came ME 3 who just continued that way and in some part went a bit overboard with that. It was binairy choices for most of the dialogue, and while it was a bit of a shame as it remove choices to create a personality for our shepard, it was still an amazing game were choices were meaningfull (with the exception of the original ending) despite the fact that it was binairy choices 90% of the time.
Heck even witcher 3, you mostly have 2 choices of dialogue for going forward. You can ask tons of question as geralt, but none of them make the discussion goes to the next step, they are just there for people who are curious. Sometime you will have a more than 2 choices, but sometime you won't even get that, you will have quesitons in white to ask and then one answer in yellow to go forward. And maybe at the end of the quest you will get a binariy choice. In the end, It all depends and where the writer wants to focus their writing ressources on.
Now we shall see how that apply to Anthem, is it going to be like in the Infamous trilogy where you have just fully evil or good choices, or like ME 3 with binairy renegade and paragon, we shall see how that works.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 1, 2018 16:15:32 GMT
Why even have a dialogue "wheel" if it's not gonna be used?
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 1, 2018 16:23:41 GMT
Why even have a dialogue "wheel" if it's not gonna be used? How about... A dialogue 'bar' ? 'stick' ? 'twig' ? 'switch' ? One of those?
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Post by Iakus on Sept 1, 2018 17:35:17 GMT
Why even have a dialogue "wheel" if it's not gonna be used? How about... A dialogue 'bar' ? 'stick' ? 'twig' ? 'switch' ? One of those? Sounds like a "bar" is exactly what Anthem's getting. "twig" is what we get all too often anyway...
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 1, 2018 18:17:47 GMT
Why even have a dialogue "wheel" if it's not gonna be used? Going back and trying to replay Origins I found a lot of the choices were binary anyway, the majority of other parts on the wheel were always "press here for more information" and with Mass Effect it was 2 or 3 choices and then Investigate. The only time it has felt that I had more dialogue then that was Dragon Age: Inquisition where at times you could have four choices based on your background/race/choices.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 1, 2018 18:42:37 GMT
Why even have a dialogue "wheel" if it's not gonna be used? Going back and trying to replay Origins I found a lot of the choices were binary anyway, the majority of other parts on the wheel were always "press here for more information" and with Mass Effect it was 2 or 3 choices and then Investigate. The only time it has felt that I had more dialogue then that was Dragon Age: Inquisition where at times you could have four choices based on your background/race/choices. I prefer to have cinematic voice acted interactions anyway as opposed to the many choices that usually lead to the same outcome anyway.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 1, 2018 22:01:48 GMT
Why even have a dialogue "wheel" if it's not gonna be used? Going back and trying to replay Origins I found a lot of the choices were binary anyway, the majority of other parts on the wheel were always "press here for more information" and with Mass Effect it was 2 or 3 choices and then Investigate. The only time it has felt that I had more dialogue then that was Dragon Age: Inquisition where at times you could have four choices based on your background/race/choice. Exactly my experience. Anthem seems to be trying to boil it down to avoid intimidating people who don’t usually play RPGs. I don’t think that’s really necessary, but I get it.
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