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Post by link2twenty on Sept 1, 2018 22:11:13 GMT
And here it is in "action"
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Post by link2twenty on Sept 1, 2018 23:37:30 GMT
"Conversations in Tarsis can be skipped" - Mark
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 23:42:40 GMT
"Conversations in Tarsis can be skipped" - Mark Well that'll make the action looter/shooter fans happy (that was sarcasm)
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 1, 2018 23:52:11 GMT
I think it's stated somewhere in the panel that they want Anthem to pretty much feel like it's own thing, and this approach to the conversations I think helps with that. I personally would like a bit more options for dialogue, but I think when I get our hands on the demo February 1st, I'll be able to finally see if this approach works or not.
I'm going to be honest, I kind of predicted how Bioware was going to approach the story in Anthem, the whole "Our World, Your Story" thing where the main story conversations and choices are in Fort Tarsis. But judging from what I'm hearing, it sounds like they're going for something more nuanced than that. How actions done in the outside wilderness impact your experiences in Fort Tarsis? I'm interested to see how that works.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 2, 2018 1:55:58 GMT
"Conversations in Tarsis can be skipped" - Mark Well that'll make the action looter/shooter fans happy (that was sarcasm) Just like you can skip conversations in Mass Effect.
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Post by mmoblitz on Sept 2, 2018 11:15:54 GMT
Sounds a lot like Andromeda where most of the game was two choices and many of the choices in the game were the same thing, just said differently. I believe it was referred to as "false choices"
I also love the reason Bioware gave for limiting choices to only two throughout the game. To me that says, the type type of gamer they are going for isn't smart enough to handle more than two choices. Reminds me of when Dice called the Battle Field player base "uneducated". The same type of player base they are aiming for in Anthem. Perhaps that isn't what was meant, but that seems to be how it's being taken based on replies I have seen to this on various other sites.
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Post by LogicGunn on Sept 2, 2018 11:37:38 GMT
I wasn't expecting much in the way of player choice so this is exciting for me. A lot of recent answers and the latest game trailer have me a little more inclined to play Anthem.
And honestly, I don't need every RPG to have a multitude of player choices. I enjoy all kinds of games and a shooter/RPG hybrid is a nice deviation from my usual games.
I don't see Anthem as the death of Bioware RPGs, and I don't think trying new things is some kind of apocalyptic event for gaming.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 3, 2018 17:03:07 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. What a farce.
Looks like Mark let the cat out of the bag. I'm really looking forward to DA4's choices have consequences BS..
EDIT: Source
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Post by Space Cowboy on Sept 3, 2018 18:09:31 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. What a farce.
Looks like Mark let the cat out of the bag. I'm really looking forward to DA4's choices have consequences BS..
EDIT: SourceMass Effect 1 was like that. All 3 branches led to the same result (dialog from Shepard) very often. Something they apparently improved upon for 2. 3 went back to more binary choices anyway. I would think it was for inconsequential conversations though. Big choices like whether to let the Rachni queen go or not would have been more nuanced.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 3, 2018 19:41:59 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. Have you played ME and DA? This has been true for a long time. And as Fallout 4 has shown, having more than 2 choices doesn't mean more options or consequences. There's a mod for FO4 that reveals what each dialogue choice leads to and some pretty funny videos showing how many 4 choice dialogue wheels all lead to the same thing. The 4 choices could have just been scripted dialogue with no choice. That's what he's saying. They aren't going to pad out dialogue choices to give the illusion of more consequences. Like they did in ME and DA in the past. Let's hope they carry the same truth-in-advertising over into DA4. If you want to be cynical, read this as recognizing that they can make a cost savings in VO, writing and QA by reducing the number of dialogue choices, since loot shooter gamers don't care about that anyway. On the other hand, they are ballooning the VO, writing and QA budget with the variant radio chatter, so maybe it's wash.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 3, 2018 20:30:27 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. What a farce.
Looks like Mark let the cat out of the bag. I'm really looking forward to DA4's choices have consequences BS..
EDIT: SourceMass Effect 1 was like that. All 3 branches led to the same result (dialog from Shepard) very often. Something they apparently improved upon for 2. 3 went back to more binary choices anyway. I would think it was for inconsequential conversations though. Big choices like whether to let the Rachni queen go or not would have been more nuanced.
Agreed on the major pivot plot points. But still ....
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 3, 2018 20:49:24 GMT
The fact that this game will have dialogue options is a surprise in itself.
I just hope such limitation won't affect future DA nor ME titles, cause holy shit I'd be pissed since both Inquisition and Andromeda went to correct direction after ME3's auto-dialogue everywhere.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 3, 2018 20:52:24 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. Snip That's what he's saying. They aren't going to pad out dialogue choices to give the illusion of more consequences. Like they did in ME and DA in the past. Let's hope they carry the same truth-in-advertising over into DA4. Snio
Another reason, for my skepticism about Anthem. The dialogue wheel was designed for this illusion = marketing a game with choices have consequences where only the major plot points were actual and the rest false but advertised as "you have choices folks!".
I've been cynical since DA:I which was a major departure from previous DA games. One simply cannot believe the marketing vomit.. Yeah.. yeah, their marketing are truthful tidbits but look... Bio deliberately withheld the complete truth, now didn't they? Now we have Anthem... ME:A's story was lacking.... but suddenly the story in Tarsis is super with rich chars?... we are to believe this hero of the story marketing speech?
My approach is better. I vote with my wallet and make no pre-orders. That forces EA to ensure good quality games at launch, imo ..... if gamers do this as a group.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Sept 3, 2018 21:25:12 GMT
Truth be told most choices in Bioware games were binary.
People seems to be confusing the choices with the huge ammount of questions you could ask and were clustered together in one dialogue wheel. Both ME1 and ME2 were like that and only during ME3 Bioware added a third choice during a few plot points of the game.
So i see no reason for making a fuss over this yet.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 3, 2018 21:58:31 GMT
Truth be told most choices in Bioware games were binary. People seems to be confusing the choices with the huge ammount of questions you could ask and were clustered together in one dialogue wheel. Both ME1 and ME2 were like that and only during ME3 Bioware added a third choice during a few plot points of the game. So i see no reason for making a fuss over this yet. Choices and TONES. But then, it's not like this is an RPG or anything...
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Sept 3, 2018 22:10:14 GMT
Not like Mass Effect and Dragon Age were RPG either, but hybrid games with some roleplaying elements. So your point?
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Post by river82 on Sept 3, 2018 22:22:57 GMT
Not like Mass Effect and Dragon Age were RPG either, but hybrid games with some roleplaying elements. So your point? Dragon Age Origins was an out and out RPG on PC. When it was ported to consoles it was made a bit more actiony, though.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 3, 2018 23:11:07 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. What a farce.
Looks like Mark let the cat out of the bag. I'm really looking forward to DA4's choices have consequences BS..
EDIT: SourceI guess it's called "branching dialogue" and not "branching world states" for a reason.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Sept 3, 2018 23:21:12 GMT
Mass Effect 1 was like that. All 3 branches led to the same result (dialog from Shepard) very often. Something they apparently improved upon for 2. 3 went back to more binary choices anyway. I would think it was for inconsequential conversations though. Big choices like whether to let the Rachni queen go or not would have been more nuanced.
Agreed on the major pivot plot points. But still ....
As Iakus pointed out, we are also talking about tones. So didnt matter what tone you chose in some dialog, the result was the same.. It wasnt really a story choice, but a tone choice.
This game, yeah no tones, it doesnt matter, you follow the plot.
In any case, I'm following this because I'm curious how it will be. I have no intention of buying it.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 3, 2018 23:59:11 GMT
Not like Mass Effect and Dragon Age were RPG either, but hybrid games with some roleplaying elements. So your point? Thus far shooting vs rpg mechanics Shooting=gin RPG=tonic Some hybrid
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 4, 2018 3:04:42 GMT
I don't think it's entirely fair to say dialogue choices = RPG, since technically there have been plenty of RPG games out there that have no dialogue choices at all (primary example I can think of is Kingdom Hearts and Monster Hunter). They were classified as RPGs because of their customization and reliance on levelling up and building skills. Anthem is definitely still going to have those stuff in the game. Guns will have stats, they will have crafting (hopefully better than Andromeda's) and you will be building up your skills as a freelancer pilot for your many javellin suits.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Sept 4, 2018 5:40:54 GMT
So now that is showed you can't complain about binary choices while using previous games as evidence, because guess what they were mostly binary too, you change the goal from choices to "tone"? Really?
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Post by helios969 on Sept 4, 2018 9:57:16 GMT
I think having any dialogue and npc interactions in this sort of game is fairly unique...and my hope is that they establish a trend in the industry that forces competitors to do something more substantial than Shooteropenworld XXIII. People want to look at it as continued "dumbing" down of the RPG, I'd rather view it as "smartening" up the looter-shooter genre.
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Post by link2twenty on Sept 4, 2018 10:33:18 GMT
I liked HZD's dialogue system, that wasn't really 'branching' it just let you talk as much as you wanted.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 4, 2018 19:26:08 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. What a farce.
Looks like Mark let the cat out of the bag. I'm really looking forward to DA4's choices have consequences BS..
EDIT: SourcePersonally I find it pretty worrying that character choice is now being described by bioware as false choices. Sure if we ever get da4 the we need to attract a wider audience will be the rationale for retaining this further degradation of character choice.
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