helios969
N4
Kamisama
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Post by helios969 on Sept 4, 2018 20:11:15 GMT
On binary choices
From Mark Darrah:
““We are showing this to an audience that is not used to these kind of decisions and conversations. We wanted to keep it simpler, but we also don't want to present you with any false choices."
Hm..... that false choice thing = implies that many of the choices in Bio’s other games ultimately lead to the same result. So, choices have consequences but now we know some different choices lead to the same consequence. What a farce.
Looks like Mark let the cat out of the bag. I'm really looking forward to DA4's choices have consequences BS..
EDIT: SourcePersonally I find it pretty worrying that character choice is now being described by bioware as false choices. Sure if we ever get da4 the we need to attract a wider audience will be the rationale for retaining this further degradation of character choice. Let's not kid ourselves...when was the last time we made a choice in one of these games that effected the outcome in any meaningful way? Choice in RPGs has always been an illusion...it's always been about crafting a psychology with a distinctive voice to experience the story in slightly different ways.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 4, 2018 20:21:38 GMT
Personally I find it pretty worrying that character choice is now being described by bioware as false choices. Sure if we ever get da4 the we need to attract a wider audience will be the rationale for retaining this further degradation of character choice. Let's not kid ourselves...when was the last time we made a choice in one of these games that effected the outcome in any meaningful way? Choice in RPGs has always been an illusion...it's always been about crafting a psychology with a distinctive voice to experience the story in slightly different ways. The illusion of choice is important. Me3, neutral dialogue choices how I still miss thee.
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Kamisama
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Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Sept 4, 2018 20:29:44 GMT
Let's not kid ourselves...when was the last time we made a choice in one of these games that effected the outcome in any meaningful way? Choice in RPGs has always been an illusion...it's always been about crafting a psychology with a distinctive voice to experience the story in slightly different ways. The illusion of choice is important. Me3, neutral dialogue choices how I still miss thee. Oh, I agree...the illusion is all I require. Also agree with the loss of ME3 neutral even though I kind understand the reason...but if I'm to be honest I still think DA2 presented the best voiced dialogue system of any game with 3 very distinctive voices to cram a whole range of psychologies into.
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Conquer Your Dreams
N3
Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Sept 4, 2018 21:20:39 GMT
Choices ? Yes or No ? In 2019 ? Seriously BW...
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 5, 2018 16:23:43 GMT
Snip That's what he's saying. They aren't going to pad out dialogue choices to give the illusion of more consequences. Like they did in ME and DA in the past. Let's hope they carry the same truth-in-advertising over into DA4. Snio
Another reason, for my skepticism about Anthem. The dialogue wheel was designed for this illusion = marketing a game with choices have consequences where only the major plot points were actual and the rest false but advertised as "you have choices folks!".
I've been cynical since DA:I which was a major departure from previous DA games. One simply cannot believe the marketing vomit.. Yeah.. yeah, their marketing are truthful tidbits but look... Bio deliberately withheld the complete truth, now didn't they? Now we have Anthem... ME:A's story was lacking.... but suddenly the story in Tarsis is super with rich chars?... we are to believe this hero of the story marketing speech?
My approach is better. I vote with my wallet and make no pre-orders. That forces EA to ensure good quality games at launch, imo ..... if gamers do this as a group.
But why stop there? Given the fear, uncertainty and doubt you have repeatedly expressed, particularly about the solo experience, you're best off not buying the game at all. Ever. Show them you won't be bamboozled by bad marketing and take your money elsewhere. I'll go on record now: You will not like the solo experience of Anthem. There! Now you can stop worrying about it. It's all laid out for you. Better to amputate now than let the wound fester.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 5, 2018 17:27:18 GMT
Another reason, for my skepticism about Anthem. The dialogue wheel was designed for this illusion = marketing a game with choices have consequences where only the major plot points were actual and the rest false but advertised as "you have choices folks!".
I've been cynical since DA:I which was a major departure from previous DA games. One simply cannot believe the marketing vomit.. Yeah.. yeah, their marketing are truthful tidbits but look... Bio deliberately withheld the complete truth, now didn't they? Now we have Anthem... ME:A's story was lacking.... but suddenly the story in Tarsis is super with rich chars?... we are to believe this hero of the story marketing speech?
My approach is better. I vote with my wallet and make no pre-orders. That forces EA to ensure good quality games at launch, imo ..... if gamers do this as a group.
But why stop there? Given the fear, uncertainty and doubt you have repeatedly expressed, particularly about the solo experience, you're best off not buying the game at all. Ever. Show them you won't be bamboozled by bad marketing and take your money elsewhere. I'll go on record now: You will not like the solo experience of Anthem. There! Now you can stop worrying about it. It's all laid out for you. Better to amputate now than let the wound fester. What? And give up months of potential complaining? Surely not...
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 5, 2018 19:41:05 GMT
What? And give up months of potential anticipatory/pre-emptive complaining? Surely not... FTFY.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 5, 2018 21:01:30 GMT
Another reason, for my skepticism about Anthem. The dialogue wheel was designed for this illusion = marketing a game with choices have consequences where only the major plot points were actual and the rest false but advertised as "you have choices folks!".
I've been cynical since DA:I which was a major departure from previous DA games. One simply cannot believe the marketing vomit.. Yeah.. yeah, their marketing are truthful tidbits but look... Bio deliberately withheld the complete truth, now didn't they? Now we have Anthem... ME:A's story was lacking.... but suddenly the story in Tarsis is super with rich chars?... we are to believe this hero of the story marketing speech?
My approach is better. I vote with my wallet and make no pre-orders. That forces EA to ensure good quality games at launch, imo ..... if gamers do this as a group.
But why stop there? Given the fear, uncertainty and doubt you have repeatedly expressed, particularly about the solo experience, you're best off not buying the game at all. Ever. Show them you won't be bamboozled by bad marketing and take your money elsewhere. I'll go on record now: You will not like the solo experience of Anthem. There! Now you can stop worrying about it. It's all laid out for you. Better to amputate now than let the wound fester.
LOL,
As to solo.... you're probably right. I've often said I'd wait post launch when the game goes on sale and for the gamer comments.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 5, 2018 21:04:26 GMT
But why stop there? Given the fear, uncertainty and doubt you have repeatedly expressed, particularly about the solo experience, you're best off not buying the game at all. Ever. Show them you won't be bamboozled by bad marketing and take your money elsewhere. I'll go on record now: You will not like the solo experience of Anthem. There! Now you can stop worrying about it. It's all laid out for you. Better to amputate now than let the wound fester. What? And give up months of potential complaining? Surely not...
I just can't wait for the "I told you so..."
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 5, 2018 21:10:45 GMT
What? And give up months of potential complaining? Surely not...
I just can't wait for the "I told you so..." Well, now you're talkin' some classic, old school BSN...
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 5, 2018 21:44:46 GMT
I just can't wait for the "I told you so..." Well, now you're talkin' some classic, old school BSN...
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses.
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Post by river82 on Sept 5, 2018 21:57:10 GMT
Well, now you're talkin' some classic, old school BSN...
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. Definitely not encouraging. Solo play is ... problematic. Darrah: It’s not so much to bring in a wider audience. My concern is… the game itself is bringing in different people and we don’t want to throw them into the deep end of BioWare conversation choices. We want to give a simple A/B choice to give them agency, but not give them a bunch of agonizing decision-making every time they talk to somebody.Jesus Christ, talk about treating people like morons. Let's dumb the game down for shooter guys, choices are too intimidating for these people
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Post by Iakus on Sept 5, 2018 21:59:49 GMT
Well, now you're talkin' some classic, old school BSN...
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. The message I get is "solo players are merely tolerated. We'll take your money, but don't expect to have much fun"
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on Sept 5, 2018 22:16:06 GMT
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. The message I get is "solo players are merely tolerated. We'll take your money, but don't expect to have much fun" I can guarantee now that soloing and fun factor will be wholly dependent on people being able to adapt to fast-paced combat. Anybody expecting a pause function like MET can forget it. There will be difficulty tiers so people hell bent on soloing should be able to do it on the easy difficulty. I'll probably do a few group matches initially just to get my feet wet, then solo or look for people interested in a two person party (which I think would be a fun approach).
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 5, 2018 22:18:15 GMT
Well, now you're talkin' some classic, old school BSN...
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. BioWare has been upfront from the beginning in stating this is an Action-RPG so I can't say I feel either surprised or mislead. I just find it funny that people here seem to try to find "Gotcha" moments - "Aha! It's has no companions! Oh, they've already said that... Aha! It isn't single player! Oh, they've said that too... "AHA!..." and so on and so on. They've been upfront about what to expect, they are going to have a demo three weeks before launch that will allow you to see what they have to offer...buy it or don't buy it. There is no loot boxes, no pay to win, to story content paywalls, cosmetic items can be purchased through in-game currency, there it no randomness when you spend real money... I mean, they've checked all the boxes... It might not be the game you expecting or even hoping for, but they are trying something different and they are in full disclosure mode.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Sept 5, 2018 22:20:02 GMT
You guys are reading way too much into what was said.
This is pretty much how grouping worked on Star Wars TOR.
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Post by river82 on Sept 5, 2018 22:20:37 GMT
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. I just find it funny that people here seem to try to find "Gotcha" moments - Aha! It isn't single player! Oh, they've said that too... What they said to begin with was "the single player experience is very important to us", then we all found out it really wasn't. And so people are rightfully disappointed.
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N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 1,853 Likes: 2,478
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Post by helios969 on Sept 5, 2018 22:26:18 GMT
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. BioWare has been upfront from the beginning in stating this is an Action-RPG so I can't say I feel either surprised or mislead. I just find it funny that people here seem to try to find "Gotcha" moments - "Aha! It's has no companions! Oh, they've already said that... Aha! It isn't single player! Oh, they've said that too... "AHA!..." and so on and so on. They've been upfront about what to expect, they are going to have a demo three weeks before launch that will allow you to see what they have to offer...buy it or don't buy it. There is no loot boxes, no pay to win, to story content paywalls, cosmetic items can be purchased through in-game currency, there it no randomness when you spend real money...I mean, they've checked all the boxes... It might not be the game you expecting or even hoping for, but they are trying something different and they are in full disclosure mode. Definitely to all your initial points. The bold portion is of particular interest to me and a huge reason I intend to support the hell out of Anthem. I want this strategy to become prevalent.
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Post by river82 on Sept 5, 2018 22:30:47 GMT
BioWare has been upfront from the beginning in stating this is an Action-RPG so I can't say I feel either surprised or mislead. I just find it funny that people here seem to try to find "Gotcha" moments - "Aha! It's has no companions! Oh, they've already said that... Aha! It isn't single player! Oh, they've said that too... "AHA!..." and so on and so on. They've been upfront about what to expect, they are going to have a demo three weeks before launch that will allow you to see what they have to offer...buy it or don't buy it. There is no loot boxes, no pay to win, to story content paywalls, cosmetic items can be purchased through in-game currency, there it no randomness when you spend real money...I mean, they've checked all the boxes... It might not be the game you expecting or even hoping for, but they are trying something different and they are in full disclosure mode. Definitely to all your initial points. The bold portion is of particular interest to me and a huge reason I intend to support the hell out of Anthem. I want this strategy to become prevalent. I wouldn't give them too much credit for that. Bioware was one of the key developers responsible for spreading loot boxes, they're winding it back because of the backlash from Battlefront 2 and it being banned in certain countries because of gambling. Almost every studio is now winding back loot boxes, your support of Anthem won't cause this strategy to spread - it's already spreading.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 5, 2018 23:03:56 GMT
I just find it funny that people here seem to try to find "Gotcha" moments - Aha! It isn't single player! Oh, they've said that too... What they said to begin with was "the single player experience is very important to us", then we all found out it really wasn't. And so people are rightfully disappointed. Yeah, you get a complete single player experience in Fort Tarsis and the Strider...again, 6 months in advance of release they are letting you know this...it's built into the game...they have a whole website that talks about it and everything
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Post by river82 on Sept 5, 2018 23:11:24 GMT
What they said to begin with was "the single player experience is very important to us", then we all found out it really wasn't. And so people are rightfully disappointed. Yeah, you get a complete single player experience in Fort Tarsis and the Strider...again, 6 months in advance of release they are letting you know this...it's built into the game...they have a whole website that talks about it and everything You get a single player story in a game designed for co-op gameplay, which goes against the early comments we got that assured us it was designed to be played alone or with friends. Things change, yes. I have no doubt. But people are free to feel disappointed about this.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 5, 2018 23:20:41 GMT
Yeah, you get a complete single player experience in Fort Tarsis and the Strider...again, 6 months in advance of release they are letting you know this...it's built into the game...they have a whole website that talks about it and everything You get a single player story in a game designed for co-op gameplay, which goes against the early comments we got that assured us it was designed to be played alone or with friends. Things change, yes. I have no doubt. But people are free to feel disappointed about this. The story is straight up single player, and they did design the game to be played either alone or with friends. You can go on missions solo, even freeplay solo. All Bioware is saying is that they want to encourage players to try playing with friends, so playing alone will be possible but a bit harder.
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Post by river82 on Sept 5, 2018 23:23:03 GMT
You get a single player story in a game designed for co-op gameplay, which goes against the early comments we got that assured us it was designed to be played alone or with friends. Things change, yes. I have no doubt. But people are free to feel disappointed about this. The story is straight up single player, and they did design the game to be played either alone or with friends. You can go on missions solo, even freeplay solo. All Bioware is saying is that they want to encourage players to try playing with friends, so playing alone will be possible but a bit harder. No, you can play it single player but it was designed for co-op. Really, a lot of the experience was designed around a more casual grouping experience. In that case, you’re coming together and breaking apart more and it’s a mixture. -Darrah
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Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
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Post by Iakus on Sept 5, 2018 23:28:31 GMT
The story is straight up single player, and they did design the game to be played either alone or with friends. You can go on missions solo, even freeplay solo. All Bioware is saying is that they want to encourage players to try playing with friends, so playing alone will be possible but a bit harder. No, you can play it single player but it was designed for co-op.Really, a lot of the experience was designed around a more casual grouping experience. In that case, you’re coming together and breaking apart more and it’s a mixture. -Darrah
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Sept 6, 2018 0:07:14 GMT
So was SWTOR. Still most people played the campaign from the start to the ending solo and only grouped for content that required grouping (flashpoints and operations). See the patern?
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