N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 6, 2018 2:12:05 GMT
The idea of being able to play with friends was something Casey Hudson wanted to do since the original Mass Effect. He originally intended Mass Effect 1 to be a kind of shared world game, but it was scrapped because the technology at the time wouldn't allow it. Anthem feels a lot like the game Casey Hudson wanted to make, a passion project. Let's hope all the hard work and effort pays off.
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Post by river82 on Sept 6, 2018 2:13:11 GMT
You have to pre-order the game first though. Which means people who are on the fence about the game won't be playing the demo ... unless they pre-order just to cancel, but I have ethical issues with doing that. Haha, I don't. I've pre-ordered on XBox..if I'm not feeling it after giving the demo a shot I'll just cancel...fair is fair. I'm optimistic though...I enjoyed ME:A combat and movement and this appears to upgrade that system Pre-ordering digitally probably doesn't matter, I guess. I've heard in Gamestop though, that cancelling a pre-order affects the performance evaluation of the employee doing the pre-order. Like, Gamestop employees have to be at a certain "percentage" per week, and cancelling a pre-order will drop an employees percentage. So these days I make sure to only pre-order from a brick and mortar store if I intend to buy it.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 6, 2018 2:18:25 GMT
Haha, I don't. I've pre-ordered on XBox..if I'm not feeling it after giving the demo a shot I'll just cancel...fair is fair. I'm optimistic though...I enjoyed ME:A combat and movement and this appears to upgrade that system Pre-ordering digitally probably doesn't matter, I guess. I've heard in Gamestop though, that cancelling a pre-order affects the performance evaluation of the employee doing the pre-order. Like, Gamestop employees have to be at a certain "percentage" per week, and cancelling a pre-order will drop an employees percentage. So these days I make sure to only pre-order from a brick and mortar store if I intend to buy it. Just pre-order digitally and, if you like it, cancel and buy at Gamestop. You don't hurt anyone in that scenario but maybe someone at Gamestop gets a sale they wouldn't have gotten normally
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 6, 2018 12:53:01 GMT
For me part of the whole choice mechanic is that you are faced with situations that make you think as to what your response. On top of paring dialogue down to binary they seem to be going out of their way to describe choices as 'simple', 'no agonizing decisions'. If its simply there to build relationships with NPC's , well once again i can't see it being any form of complex variable relationships states.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 6, 2018 13:04:25 GMT
For me part of the whole choice mechanic is that you are faced with situations that make you think as to what your response. On top of paring dialogue down to binary they seem to be going out of their way to describe choices as 'simple', 'no agonizing decisions'. If its simply there to build relationships with NPC's , well once again i can't see it being any form of complex variable relationships states.
Precisely.
Yet, according to Bio, this simple approach allows us to know more about the char and they will reveal even more as we interact with "simple" binary choices.... which makes for a great story hero.... Hm.... what am I missing?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 6, 2018 13:17:57 GMT
For me part of the whole choice mechanic is that you are faced with situations that make you think as to what your response. On top of paring dialogue down to binary they seem to be going out of their way to describe choices as 'simple', 'no agonizing decisions'. If its simply there to build relationships with NPC's , well once again i can't see it being any form of complex variable relationships states. None of the choices in the past ever felt like they were anything but simple or were agonizing especially the Mass Effect ones. A lot of the time it always felt like it was the path that corresponded more with the approach you wanted with Shepard so upper right for Paragon and lower right for Renegade and very little alterations from that path.
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N7Pathfinder
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 6, 2018 14:40:08 GMT
For me part of the whole choice mechanic is that you are faced with situations that make you think as to what your response. On top of paring dialogue down to binary they seem to be going out of their way to describe choices as 'simple', 'no agonizing decisions'. If its simply there to build relationships with NPC's , well once again i can't see it being any form of complex variable relationships states. None of the choices in the past ever felt like they were anything but simple or were agonizing especially the Mass Effect ones. A lot of the time it always felt like it was the path that corresponded more with the approach you wanted with Shepard so upper right for Paragon and lower right for Renegade and very little alterations from that path. And the only times there were an agonizing choice (ie choosing between Ashley or Kaiden in Virmire) the choices were presented side by side, making it difficult. I think by having simple dialogue choices, it will require you to think about what you want to say and how you want to present your character. Most of the choices will be simple role-playing, but then there might be a few story crucial critical choices. I'm sure of it.
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 6, 2018 15:17:40 GMT
For me part of the whole choice mechanic is that you are faced with situations that make you think as to what your response. On top of paring dialogue down to binary they seem to be going out of their way to describe choices as 'simple', 'no agonizing decisions'. If its simply there to build relationships with NPC's , well once again i can't see it being any form of complex variable relationships states. None of the choices in the past ever felt like they were anything but simple or were agonizing especially the Mass Effect ones. A lot of the time it always felt like it was the path that corresponded more with the approach you wanted with Shepard so upper right for Paragon and lower right for Renegade and very little alterations from that path. Don't agree at all. There have been numerous times in past games including Mass effect where i've had to agonise over a pair of choices.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 15:44:40 GMT
What? And give up months of potential complaining? Surely not...
I just can't wait for the "I told you so..." Since you've set that up to be a foregone conclusion, there won't be much sting in it when it finally lands. It's not much of a prediction to say, "People will be disappointed in Anthem." That can be said about any game release, proportional to it's marketing and the length of the run-up to release. It's like me saying people will be disappointed in Star Citizen.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 15:49:21 GMT
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. Definitely not encouraging. Solo play is ... problematic. Darrah: It’s not so much to bring in a wider audience. My concern is… the game itself is bringing in different people and we don’t want to throw them into the deep end of BioWare conversation choices. We want to give a simple A/B choice to give them agency, but not give them a bunch of agonizing decision-making every time they talk to somebody.Jesus Christ, talk about treating people like morons. Let's dumb the game down for shooter guys, choices are too intimidating for these people It's not just about dumbing down, it's also about what's fun and not fun for those shooter guys. There's a thread about this very topic in Reddit. The TL;DR is that shooter-first players don't want to spend a lot of "story" time picking up missions. They want to roll from one MP mission into the next as quickly as possible, fuck the talking to NPCs malarkey. www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/9d0xh8/a_worry_about_fort_tarsis/I take this as proof that Bioware did their homework and understand the segment of players they are going after, and are accommodating those players accordingly. While still adding something recognizable as Bioware story to the mix, albeit optional.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 15:58:31 GMT
Ha.... stirs up old memories.
Have you boned up on this GI article on solo play with Mark? .... can't say it's encouraging. Then again, I may be wearing the wrong glasses. The message I get is "solo players are merely tolerated. We'll take your money, but don't expect to have much fun" Close. It's more like, if you're going to buy this game as someone used to traditional SP Bioware games, go in with your eyes open. The game doesn't cater to an audience used to single-player RPG-style traditional storytelling. It's a co-op MP game first, enhanced with Bioware story, and some accommodation for lone-wolf solo play. As the MP part is first and foremost, changes had to be made to the presentation and experience of storytelling. If you want to call that compromise and debasement, that's your call, but don't confuse your opinion with their intent. The design choice prioritization is like this: - Things that are good for a co-op MP game played with 3 friends or pugs.
- Things that are good for a co-op MP game played with 1 or 2 friends or pugs.
- Things that are good for a co-op MP game played solo, as sort of a challenge mode, or while waiting for friends to gather (free roam)
- Things that are good for story.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 6, 2018 15:58:34 GMT
Definitely not encouraging. Solo play is ... problematic. Darrah: It’s not so much to bring in a wider audience. My concern is… the game itself is bringing in different people and we don’t want to throw them into the deep end of BioWare conversation choices. We want to give a simple A/B choice to give them agency, but not give them a bunch of agonizing decision-making every time they talk to somebody.Jesus Christ, talk about treating people like morons. Let's dumb the game down for shooter guys, choices are too intimidating for these people It's not just about dumbing down, it's also about what's fun and not fun for those shooter guys. There's a thread about this very topic in Reddit. The TL;DR is that shooter-first players don't want to spend a lot of "story" time picking up missions. They want to roll from one MP mission into the next as quickly as possible, fuck the talking to NPCs malarkey. www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/9d0xh8/a_worry_about_fort_tarsis/I take this as proof that Bioware did their homework and understand the segment of players they are going after, and are accommodating those players accordingly. While still adding something recognizable as Bioware story to the mix, albeit optional. And this is why a lot of Bioware fans are p*ssed
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 16:02:19 GMT
It's not just about dumbing down, it's also about what's fun and not fun for those shooter guys. There's a thread about this very topic in Reddit. The TL;DR is that shooter-first players don't want to spend a lot of "story" time picking up missions. They want to roll from one MP mission into the next as quickly as possible, fuck the talking to NPCs malarkey. www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/9d0xh8/a_worry_about_fort_tarsis/I take this as proof that Bioware did their homework and understand the segment of players they are going after, and are accommodating those players accordingly. While still adding something recognizable as Bioware story to the mix, albeit optional. And this is why a lot of Bioware fans are p*ssed For a game that we can choose to buy or not buy? Why? What skin is it off our noses? Unless you want to gripe about this delaying DA4? Or the woulda/coulda been of MEA if only the A team wasn't working on Anthem? Seems like futile things to be pissed off about. That water went under the bridge literal years ago.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 16:07:29 GMT
I just find it funny that people here seem to try to find "Gotcha" moments - Aha! It isn't single player! Oh, they've said that too... What they said to begin with was "the single player experience is very important to us", then we all found out it really wasn't. And so people are rightfully disappointed. Yeah, they shouldn't have said that. That was dumb. In hindsight, it's clear what they meant is, "The single player experience is very important to us, so we won't cut it completely from the game, as you'd expect in an MP-first by design game." But people took it as that there would be little or no compromise of the SP experience (read, there would be romances), and that's clearly false.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 6, 2018 16:09:44 GMT
It's not just about dumbing down, it's also about what's fun and not fun for those shooter guys. There's a thread about this very topic in Reddit. The TL;DR is that shooter-first players don't want to spend a lot of "story" time picking up missions. They want to roll from one MP mission into the next as quickly as possible, fuck the talking to NPCs malarkey. www.reddit.com/r/AnthemTheGame/comments/9d0xh8/a_worry_about_fort_tarsis/I take this as proof that Bioware did their homework and understand the segment of players they are going after, and are accommodating those players accordingly. While still adding something recognizable as Bioware story to the mix, albeit optional. And this is why a lot of Bioware fans are p*ssed Are they? Does some randos on a message board = "a lot of BioWare fans" I follow/or am followed (or both) with a good amount of BioWare/Mass Effect/Dragon Age fans on Twitter/Facebook/SocialMedia and the general consensus I see is "Cautiously Optimistic". I guess it depends on who you associate with as well. Even the average poll results here don't match the more vocal pessimism which would make sense since it's a BioWare fan board. By the way, I am a BioWare fan and I'm not pissed...
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
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Post by Iakus on Sept 6, 2018 16:12:15 GMT
And this is why a lot of Bioware fans are p*ssed Are they? Does some randos on a message board = "a lot of BioWare fans" I follow/or am followed (or both) with a good amount of BioWare/Mass Effect/Dragon Age fans on Twitter/Facebook/SocialMedia and the general consensus I see is "Cautiously Optimistic". I guess it depends on who you associate with as well. Even the average poll results here don't match the more vocal pessimism which would make sense since it's a BioWare fan board. By the way, I am a BioWare fan and I'm not pissed... Outside this forum, I don't know any Bioware fans interested in this game. Anecdotal, sure. But no more than than your evidence.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 16:14:03 GMT
You get a single player story in a game designed for co-op gameplay, which goes against the early comments we got that assured us it was designed to be played alone or with friends. Things change, yes. I have no doubt. But people are free to feel disappointed about this. The story is straight up single player, and they did design the game to be played either alone or with friends. You can go on missions solo, even freeplay solo. All Bioware is saying is that they want to encourage players to try playing with friends, so playing alone will be possible but a bit harder. No, I'm sorry, that's a bit oversimplified. There's no traditional singleplayer story experience in Anthem. How could there be, when nothing you decide in Your Story can influence the world in any significant way? Elements of the singleplayer experience have been hybridized into the game, but cherrypicking those elements is not the same thing as the full experience. Plus, the Your Story element is optional. The co-op MP Our World component is not optional. That tells you everything you need to know about who's calling the shots in terms of game design trade-offs.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 6, 2018 16:14:56 GMT
Are they? Does some randos on a message board = "a lot of BioWare fans" I follow/or am followed (or both) with a good amount of BioWare/Mass Effect/Dragon Age fans on Twitter/Facebook/SocialMedia and the general consensus I see is "Cautiously Optimistic". I guess it depends on who you associate with as well. Even the average poll results here don't match the more vocal pessimism which would make sense since it's a BioWare fan board. By the way, I am a BioWare fan and I'm not pissed... Outside this forum, I don't know any Bioware fans interested in this game. Anecdotal, sure. But no more than than your evidence. And the opposite is true for me....time will tell
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,883 Likes: 49,344
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Post by Iakus on Sept 6, 2018 16:19:56 GMT
And this is why a lot of Bioware fans are p*ssed For a game that we can choose to buy or not buy? Why? What skin is it off our noses? Unless you want to gripe about this delaying DA4? Or the woulda/coulda been of MEA if only the A team wasn't working on Anthem? Seems like futile things to be pissed off about. That water went under the bridge literal years ago. Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Anthem is their new flagship I am p*ssed that the only AAA RPG company worthy of the name is gone now. Sure Dragon Age will linger for a bit, we might get one or two more games that qualify as role-playing from them. But Bioware's story-rich RPGs are going away in favor of the quick and easy money of shooters. Yeah, I can tell you're sneering at me. But look at the direction of the "evolution" of their games. How "streamlined" they've become. The greater emphasis on action over RPG. You can't tell me that this wasn't the logical conclusion. Anthem is Bioware's new normal. Count on it. THAT is what I'm p*ssed about.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 16:24:06 GMT
Yeah, man, it doesn't sound like this your kind of game...whelps. Plenty of isometric games out there for ya Also makes you wonder how honest they're being with "you can do the whole storyline solo" Sure, if yo just GIT GUD!!! You can do the whole story line solo, because that is the *only* way you can experience Your Story. You can also complete the critical path in the MP Our World solo, though that might be a degraded experience compared to doing it in a full squad of 4. But degraded doesn't mean impossible or even that you have to git gud. There appear to be difficulty settings per mission, plus enemies appear to be scaled down if you go solo.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 6, 2018 16:24:50 GMT
The story is straight up single player, and they did design the game to be played either alone or with friends. You can go on missions solo, even freeplay solo. All Bioware is saying is that they want to encourage players to try playing with friends, so playing alone will be possible but a bit harder. No, I'm sorry, that's a bit oversimplified. There's no traditional singleplayer story experience in Anthem. How could there be, when nothing you decide in Your Story can influence the world in any significant way? Elements of the singleplayer experience have been hybridized into the game, but cherrypicking those elements is not the same thing as the full experience. Plus, the Your Story element is optional. The co-op MP Our World component is not optional. That tells you everything you need to know about who's calling the shots in terms of game design trade-offs. I understand what you are trying to get at - the world of Anthem outside of Fort Tarsis and the Strider will not be impacted by your playthrough. BioWare is going to tell their story of "Anthem" in terms of meta-arc and we're there to experience it collectively while your own personal story with your crew and the citizenry inside the hubs is yours to decide within the options given to you. It's a hybrid and something different but almost all the game (apart from Strongholds) can be experienced by yourself should you choose. I want to see how they attempt to pull it off.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 16:31:00 GMT
For a game that we can choose to buy or not buy? Why? What skin is it off our noses? Unless you want to gripe about this delaying DA4? Or the woulda/coulda been of MEA if only the A team wasn't working on Anthem? Seems like futile things to be pissed off about. That water went under the bridge literal years ago. Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Of course this is where they've been heading towards for years. This is not news! This is indeed Bioware now, a viable studio that still is producing products, rather that one that was shuttered long ago for failing to follow the money. Your warning amounts to, "Look out! Bioware doesn't make products I like any more!!" Uh, thanks?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 6, 2018 16:36:59 GMT
For a game that we can choose to buy or not buy? Why? What skin is it off our noses? Unless you want to gripe about this delaying DA4? Or the woulda/coulda been of MEA if only the A team wasn't working on Anthem? Seems like futile things to be pissed off about. That water went under the bridge literal years ago. Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Anthem is their new flagship I am p*ssed that the only AAA RPG company worthy of the name is gone now. Sure Dragon Age will linger for a bit, we might get one or two more games that qualify as role-playing from them. But Bioware's story-rich RPGs are going away in favor of the quick and easy money of shooters. Yeah, I can tell you're sneering at me. But look at the direction of the "evolution" of their games. How "streamlined" they've become. The greater emphasis on action over RPG. You can't tell me that this wasn't the logical conclusion. Anthem is Bioware's new normal. Count on it. THAT is what I'm p*ssed about. Sound a lot like the complaints I was reading when BioWare was transitioning between Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age. A lot of comments are "this is what I want" or "this is what a BioWare game should be according to me". The problem with what you are talking about is that pure RPG games really aren't popular otherwise you would see other major publishers looking to make them just like they are jumping onto the Looter-Shooter genre or the battle royal genre. So the question is what is better for BioWare to make the same game in a genre that doesn't seem to be popular and risk closing their doors because their games aren't selling like the point and click adventure era or change up what they are making so they stay afloat.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 6, 2018 16:37:49 GMT
Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Of course this is where they've been heading towards for years. This is not news! This is indeed Bioware now, a viable studio that still is producing products, rather that one that was shuttered long ago for failing to follow the money. Your warning amounts to, "Look out! Bioware doesn't make products I like any more!!" Uh, thanks? Additionally, they are making the games they are interested in making and the games they feel will keep them viable as a studio.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 6, 2018 16:57:29 GMT
Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Anthem is their new flagship I am p*ssed that the only AAA RPG company worthy of the name is gone now. Sure Dragon Age will linger for a bit, we might get one or two more games that qualify as role-playing from them. But Bioware's story-rich RPGs are going away in favor of the quick and easy money of shooters. Yeah, I can tell you're sneering at me. But look at the direction of the "evolution" of their games. How "streamlined" they've become. The greater emphasis on action over RPG. You can't tell me that this wasn't the logical conclusion. Anthem is Bioware's new normal. Count on it. THAT is what I'm p*ssed about. Sound a lot like the complaints I was reading when BioWare was transitioning between Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age. A lot of comments are "this is what I want" or "this is what a BioWare game should be according to me". The problem with what you are talking about is that pure RPG games really aren't popular otherwise you would see other major publishers looking to make them just like they are jumping onto the Looter-Shooter genre or the battle royal genre. So the question is what is better for BioWare to make the same game in a genre that doesn't seem to be popular and risk closing their doors because their games aren't selling like the point and click adventure era or change up what they are making so they stay afloat. Poor, poor Telltale...
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