Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 6, 2018 16:58:03 GMT
Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Of course this is where they've been heading towards for years. This is not news! This is indeed Bioware now, a viable studio that still is producing products, rather that one that was shuttered long ago for failing to follow the money. Your warning amounts to, "Look out! Bioware doesn't make products I like any more!!" Uh, thanks? Spoken like someone who's every whim is catered to.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 6, 2018 17:36:01 GMT
Sound a lot like the complaints I was reading when BioWare was transitioning between Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age. A lot of comments are "this is what I want" or "this is what a BioWare game should be according to me". The problem with what you are talking about is that pure RPG games really aren't popular otherwise you would see other major publishers looking to make them just like they are jumping onto the Looter-Shooter genre or the battle royal genre. So the question is what is better for BioWare to make the same game in a genre that doesn't seem to be popular and risk closing their doors because their games aren't selling like the point and click adventure era or change up what they are making so they stay afloat. Poor, poor Telltale... I never said that there is not market for them, I said the games aren't as popular as they once were and that is what I gathered from different articles is that they haven't been selling as many games/seasons as they have in the past.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 6, 2018 17:43:00 GMT
Sound a lot like the complaints I was reading when BioWare was transitioning between Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age. A lot of comments are "this is what I want" or "this is what a BioWare game should be according to me". The problem with what you are talking about is that pure RPG games really aren't popular otherwise you would see other major publishers looking to make them just like they are jumping onto the Looter-Shooter genre or the battle royal genre. So the question is what is better for BioWare to make the same game in a genre that doesn't seem to be popular and risk closing their doors because their games aren't selling like the point and click adventure era or change up what they are making so they stay afloat. Poor, poor Telltale... They’re exceptions not the rule.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 6, 2018 17:44:30 GMT
Of course this is where they've been heading towards for years. This is not news! This is indeed Bioware now, a viable studio that still is producing products, rather that one that was shuttered long ago for failing to follow the money. Your warning amounts to, "Look out! Bioware doesn't make products I like any more!!" Uh, thanks? Spoken like someone who's every whim is catered to. Alternatively, he’s just open to playing a wider variety of games than you are. I can play Destiny 2 one day and turn around to finish up my new Pillars of Eternity II playthrough the next.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 6, 2018 17:45:46 GMT
Of course this is where they've been heading towards for years. This is not news! This is indeed Bioware now, a viable studio that still is producing products, rather that one that was shuttered long ago for failing to follow the money. Your warning amounts to, "Look out! Bioware doesn't make products I like any more!!" Uh, thanks? Spoken like someone who's every whim is catered to. Yes, BioWare caters to PapaCharlie9's whims specifically...didn't you get the memo?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Sept 6, 2018 18:04:19 GMT
I never said that there is not market for them, I said the games aren't as popular as they once were and that is what I gathered from different articles is that they haven't been selling as many games/seasons as they have in the past. I get the feeling part of the reason their games are sucessfull is because they are usually adapting well know franchises. Spoken like someone who's every whim is catered to. Yes, BioWare caters to PapaCharlie9's whims specifically...didn't you get the memo? No. Too busy complaining about how Bioware doesn't makes game like they before...
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N7Pathfinder
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 6, 2018 19:19:13 GMT
I never said that there is not market for them, I said the games aren't as popular as they once were and that is what I gathered from different articles is that they haven't been selling as many games/seasons as they have in the past. Telltale even had to change up their format recently. Their decision to sacrifice puzzles in exchange for narrative-driven choice based storytelling paid off for quite a while ever since the Walking Dead. Now they are trying new methods of storytelling and monitoring choices (recently with Batman Enemy Within, they placed emphasis on relationships with the supporting cast and how they change and perceive the main character) and are soon going to ditch their outdated propriety engine for the more accessible and well-received Unity Engine. The point I think Sanunes is trying to make is that game studios, even really successful ones like Bioware, need to change up how they make their games and what genres they utilize in order to stay relevant and adapt to a changing market.
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Post by rras1994 on Sept 6, 2018 19:22:09 GMT
Sound a lot like the complaints I was reading when BioWare was transitioning between Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age. A lot of comments are "this is what I want" or "this is what a BioWare game should be according to me". The problem with what you are talking about is that pure RPG games really aren't popular otherwise you would see other major publishers looking to make them just like they are jumping onto the Looter-Shooter genre or the battle royal genre. So the question is what is better for BioWare to make the same game in a genre that doesn't seem to be popular and risk closing their doors because their games aren't selling like the point and click adventure era or change up what they are making so they stay afloat. Poor, poor Telltale... The same Telltale that had to lay off 25% of it's staff last year?
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Post by helios969 on Sept 6, 2018 19:26:43 GMT
I wouldn't give them too much credit for that. Bioware was one of the key developers responsible for spreading loot boxes, they're winding it back because of the backlash from Battlefront 2 and it being banned in certain countries because of gambling. Almost every studio is now winding back loot boxes, your support of Anthem won't cause this strategy to spread - it's already spreading. That only really impacts RNG lootbox BS (that definitely needs to go the way of the dodo) but you can bet the pay to win stuff will remain pervasive until someone demonstrates high profitability without resorting to that nonsense.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 22:46:58 GMT
Spoken like someone who's every whim is catered to. Alternatively, he’s just open to playing a wider variety of games than you are. This. I wish my every whim was catered to. Then the Thief reboot wouldn’t have been such a huge disappointment. You have no idea how much I miss Looking Glass Studios.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 6, 2018 22:49:30 GMT
Spoken like someone who's every whim is catered to. Yes, BioWare caters to PapaCharlie9's whims specifically...didn't you get the memo? I’m still waiting for my Scout Harding romance ... You had one job, Bioware!
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Sept 6, 2018 23:34:34 GMT
For a game that we can choose to buy or not buy? Why? What skin is it off our noses? Unless you want to gripe about this delaying DA4? Or the woulda/coulda been of MEA if only the A team wasn't working on Anthem? Seems like futile things to be pissed off about. That water went under the bridge literal years ago. Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Anthem is their new flagship I am p*ssed that the only AAA RPG company worthy of the name is gone now. Sure Dragon Age will linger for a bit, we might get one or two more games that qualify as role-playing from them. But Bioware's story-rich RPGs are going away in favor of the quick and easy money of shooters. Yeah, I can tell you're sneering at me. But look at the direction of the "evolution" of their games. How "streamlined" they've become. The greater emphasis on action over RPG. You can't tell me that this wasn't the logical conclusion. Anthem is Bioware's new normal. Count on it. THAT is what I'm p*ssed about. Eh, maybe. Probably depends a lot on how successful is Anthem. Plus, there are signs they're not going to abandon story RPG's - they respond positively to pressure on Twitter when folks say they still want story-based RPG's.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 7, 2018 0:19:11 GMT
Definitely to all your initial points. The bold portion is of particular interest to me and a huge reason I intend to support the hell out of Anthem. I want this strategy to become prevalent. I wouldn't give them too much credit for that. Bioware was one of the key developers responsible for spreading loot boxes, they're winding it back because of the backlash from Battlefront 2 and it being banned in certain countries because of gambling. Almost every studio is now winding back loot boxes, your support of Anthem won't cause this strategy to spread - it's already spreading. How is BioWare "key developers for spreading loot boxes"? Loot boxes had already been around for a couple of years prior to Mass Effect 3 and it was mostly pointed out like people do with Overwatch that it was a way that people didn't mind them as much. If anything BioWare was one of the last developers to release a game including loot boxes. Plenty of other developers had spread loot boxes far and wide prior to BioWare.
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Post by river82 on Sept 7, 2018 2:08:19 GMT
I wouldn't give them too much credit for that. Bioware was one of the key developers responsible for spreading loot boxes, they're winding it back because of the backlash from Battlefront 2 and it being banned in certain countries because of gambling. Almost every studio is now winding back loot boxes, your support of Anthem won't cause this strategy to spread - it's already spreading. How is BioWare "key developers for spreading loot boxes"? Loot boxes had already been around for a couple of years prior to Mass Effect 3 and it was mostly pointed out like people do with Overwatch that it was a way that people didn't mind them as much. If anything BioWare was one of the last developers to release a game including loot boxes. Plenty of other developers had spread loot boxes far and wide prior to BioWare. Bioware's Mass Effect 3 is commonly pointed at as one of the key games that spread the popularity of loot boxes. That's a very general statement to make, I should have said in relation to consoles or PC gaming. Came over to console and PC gaming around 2010 from probably mobile, ME3 released 2012, Bioware weren't one of the last developers incorporating them. EDIT: Unless you count mobile games, but I don't really think of them as games TBH.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 7, 2018 4:14:44 GMT
Hm.... Came across this:
- Bio says binary choices is an effort on their part to reduce choice paralysis. Really?
- You’ll also get Cortex entries through dialogue – yes, it sounds like ‘codex’ for a reason. As you speak with certain characters, panels of additional information will appear in the upper right corner of the screen, giving you new lore information to scroll through as dialogue progresses. At first glance, it feels like a replacement for the purely investigative options you see in something like a Mass Effect, but instead of having that exposition delivered through dialogue, you’re seeing it in a different context.
The first one is BS, imo The second is interesting. ... background info is always good. Let's hope the text is legible.
Last, the protagonist's conversation is always in 1st person. Reminds me of the old black and white Film Noir movies, Hollywood put out in the last century. The camera replaced the eyes. ... not fond of that format.... I wonder. Does one initiate the conversation by clicking on a NPC? .... maybe we will hear a "hey bro"?
Of interest, to me is:
-One area where BioWare isn’t scaling back is the quality of the conversations. In previous games, they’ve had a concept they refer to as “bronze conversations,” where chats with minor characters wouldn’t be rendered with the same fidelity as more substantial dialogues. That won’t be the case in Anthem, as they’re working to build every conversation – even the “bronze” ones – to have the same sort of impact as those big talks, meaning the same quality of presentation, lighting, and facial performance.
Well, good luck to them. This necessitates better scripting from the writers (story wise). Hope it works out.
Oh, here is the article ... if you're interested.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 7, 2018 5:38:33 GMT
How is BioWare "key developers for spreading loot boxes"? Loot boxes had already been around for a couple of years prior to Mass Effect 3 and it was mostly pointed out like people do with Overwatch that it was a way that people didn't mind them as much. If anything BioWare was one of the last developers to release a game including loot boxes. Plenty of other developers had spread loot boxes far and wide prior to BioWare. Bioware's Mass Effect 3 is commonly pointed at as one of the key games that spread the popularity of loot boxes. That's a very general statement to make, I should have said in relation to consoles or PC gaming. Came over to console and PC gaming around 2010 from probably mobile, ME3 released 2012, Bioware weren't one of the last developers incorporating them. EDIT: Unless you count mobile games, but I don't really think of them as games TBH. I was thinking games like Team Fortress 2 and FIFA would be better examples for Mass Effect 3's approach is pretty much the same as FIFA's ultimate team mode. Where it feels a lot like a collectible card game. Edit: I also thought F2P MMOs were the first ones for they were abandoning the subscription models for boxes because they didn't have the audience.
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Post by wright1978 on Sept 7, 2018 7:35:36 GMT
Hm.... Came across this:
- Bio says binary choices is an effort on their part to reduce choice paralysis. Really?
- You’ll also get Cortex entries through dialogue – yes, it sounds like ‘codex’ for a reason. As you speak with certain characters, panels of additional information will appear in the upper right corner of the screen, giving you new lore information to scroll through as dialogue progresses. At first glance, it feels like a replacement for the purely investigative options you see in something like a Mass Effect, but instead of having that exposition delivered through dialogue, you’re seeing it in a different context.
The first one is BS, imo The second is interesting. ... background info is always good. Let's hope the text is legible.
Last, the protagonist's conversation is always in 1st person. Reminds me of the old black and white Film Noir movies, Hollywood put out in the last century. The camera replaced the eyes. ... not fond of that format.... I wonder. Does one initiate the conversation by clicking on a NPC? .... maybe we will hear a "hey bro"?
Of interest, to me is:
-One area where BioWare isn’t scaling back is the quality of the conversations. In previous games, they’ve had a concept they refer to as “bronze conversations,” where chats with minor characters wouldn’t be rendered with the same fidelity as more substantial dialogues. That won’t be the case in Anthem, as they’re working to build every conversation – even the “bronze” ones – to have the same sort of impact as those big talks, meaning the same quality of presentation, lighting, and facial performance.
Well, good luck to them. This necessitates better scripting from the writers (story wise). Hope it works out.
Oh, here is the article ... if you're interested.
That replacement for investigate with a data dump sounds bad. Does the data stay up. Who wants to be reading that whilst also trying to listen to npc character’s convo. Also heard them say facial animation won’t be bad because there are far fewer characters than andromeda.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 7, 2018 8:29:19 GMT
How is BioWare "key developers for spreading loot boxes"? Loot boxes had already been around for a couple of years prior to Mass Effect 3 and it was mostly pointed out like people do with Overwatch that it was a way that people didn't mind them as much. If anything BioWare was one of the last developers to release a game including loot boxes. Plenty of other developers had spread loot boxes far and wide prior to BioWare. Bioware's Mass Effect 3 is commonly pointed at as one of the key games that spread the popularity of loot boxes. That's a very general statement to make, I should have said in relation to consoles or PC gaming. Came over to console and PC gaming around 2010 from probably mobile, ME3 released 2012, Bioware weren't one of the last developers incorporating them. EDIT: Unless you count mobile games, but I don't really think of them as games TBH. TF2 did it YEARS before. Like many years.
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Post by river82 on Sept 7, 2018 8:45:36 GMT
Bioware's Mass Effect 3 is commonly pointed at as one of the key games that spread the popularity of loot boxes. That's a very general statement to make, I should have said in relation to consoles or PC gaming. Came over to console and PC gaming around 2010 from probably mobile, ME3 released 2012, Bioware weren't one of the last developers incorporating them. EDIT: Unless you count mobile games, but I don't really think of them as games TBH. TF2 did it YEARS before. Like many years. The first major appearance of loot boxes in the western marketplace was in September 2010, when Valve transitioned Team Fortress 2 from a pay-once model to a free-to-play model.www.destructoid.com/loot-boxes-aren-t-considered-gambling-claims-esrb-466512.phtmlSeptember 2010 to March 2012 is only one and a half years.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 7, 2018 8:48:31 GMT
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Post by azarhal on Sept 7, 2018 13:32:03 GMT
Hm.... Came across this:
- Bio says binary choices is an effort on their part to reduce choice paralysis. Really?
- You’ll also get Cortex entries through dialogue – yes, it sounds like ‘codex’ for a reason. As you speak with certain characters, panels of additional information will appear in the upper right corner of the screen, giving you new lore information to scroll through as dialogue progresses. At first glance, it feels like a replacement for the purely investigative options you see in something like a Mass Effect, but instead of having that exposition delivered through dialogue, you’re seeing it in a different context.
The first one is BS, imo The second is interesting. ... background info is always good. Let's hope the text is legible.
Last, the protagonist's conversation is always in 1st person. Reminds me of the old black and white Film Noir movies, Hollywood put out in the last century. The camera replaced the eyes. ... not fond of that format.... I wonder. Does one initiate the conversation by clicking on a NPC? .... maybe we will hear a "hey bro"?
Of interest, to me is:
-One area where BioWare isn’t scaling back is the quality of the conversations. In previous games, they’ve had a concept they refer to as “bronze conversations,” where chats with minor characters wouldn’t be rendered with the same fidelity as more substantial dialogues. That won’t be the case in Anthem, as they’re working to build every conversation – even the “bronze” ones – to have the same sort of impact as those big talks, meaning the same quality of presentation, lighting, and facial performance.
Well, good luck to them. This necessitates better scripting from the writers (story wise). Hope it works out.
Oh, here is the article ... if you're interested.
That replacement for investigate with a data dump sounds bad. Does the data stay up. Who wants to be reading that whilst also trying to listen to npc character’s convo. Also heard them say facial animation won’t be bad because there are far fewer characters than andromeda. Do you really enjoy hearing those info-dump in other Bioware games? I don't. The information is interesting, but those conversation always seemed awkward to me and often came off as taking the spot of more personal conversation with those characters (compare Ash to Liara in ME1). Also, the Cortex will probably be available outside conversation so you don't have to read them the moment they pop up.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 7, 2018 19:52:35 GMT
Because his is Bioware now. This is the direction they're headed. That they've BEEN heading towards I and others have been warning y'all for years. Anthem is their new flagship I am p*ssed that the only AAA RPG company worthy of the name is gone now. Sure Dragon Age will linger for a bit, we might get one or two more games that qualify as role-playing from them. But Bioware's story-rich RPGs are going away in favor of the quick and easy money of shooters. Yeah, I can tell you're sneering at me. But look at the direction of the "evolution" of their games. How "streamlined" they've become. The greater emphasis on action over RPG. You can't tell me that this wasn't the logical conclusion. Anthem is Bioware's new normal. Count on it. THAT is what I'm p*ssed about. Eh, maybe. Probably depends a lot on how successful is Anthem. Plus, there are signs they're not going to abandon story RPG's - they respond positively to pressure on Twitter when folks say they still want story-based RPG's. Well they're hardly likely to just tell people to get over it and suck up the co-op shooters
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Post by smilesja on Sept 8, 2018 2:54:50 GMT
I wouldn't give them too much credit for that. Bioware was one of the key developers responsible for spreading loot boxes, they're winding it back because of the backlash from Battlefront 2 and it being banned in certain countries because of gambling. Almost every studio is now winding back loot boxes, your support of Anthem won't cause this strategy to spread - it's already spreading. How is BioWare "key developers for spreading loot boxes"? Loot boxes had already been around for a couple of years prior to Mass Effect 3 and it was mostly pointed out like people do with Overwatch that it was a way that people didn't mind them as much. If anything BioWare was one of the last developers to release a game including loot boxes. Plenty of other developers had spread loot boxes far and wide prior to BioWare. And even with Overwatch there’s a growing number of people dissatisfied with the loot boxes.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 8, 2018 16:40:48 GMT
Eh, maybe. Probably depends a lot on how successful is Anthem. Plus, there are signs they're not going to abandon story RPG's - they respond positively to pressure on Twitter when folks say they still want story-based RPG's. Well they're hardly likely to just tell people to get over it and suck up the co-op shooters Actually, they did, sort of: www.usgamer.net/articles/anthem-pax-west-interview-new-details-live-service Going back to the Fort Tarsis stuff for a moment, I think it's interesting that there's no content gated behind making the right narrative choices in single-player. What was that like, streamlining the narrative stuff? MD: What I want to make sure is that this is a game that appeals to a different audience than what we've seen before. It would be unfortunate if [players] were to run into a full on conversation wheel like from Mass Effect or Dragon Age and just hit full decision paralysis. Just go, 'I don't want to make the wrong decision.' It's interesting and can provide an interesting experience, if you're ready for it. And I think we're going to have a lot of people in Anthem that haven't been exposed to that, so in part this is a bit of an opportunity to expose them to the concept. And then hopefully, maybe in the future, this makes them open to more complicated branching choices. MG: Yeah, I mean the other way to put it is you can tell a great story with agency and great characters without something being a full-fledged RPG. Which is what anthem isn't. Anthem is not a full-fledged RPG, it's an action game with a lot of these elements. And we think that we're well positioned to be able to bring those elements in because we do have experience with the RPG stuff. But it doesn't mean it has to mimic it because it's trying to be its own thing.
A lot of people are in denial about that, but I don't know how Bioware could have said it any plainer. IT AIN'T AN RPG.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Sept 8, 2018 16:54:21 GMT
Well they're hardly likely to just tell people to get over it and suck up the co-op shooters Actually, they did, sort of: www.usgamer.net/articles/anthem-pax-west-interview-new-details-live-service Going back to the Fort Tarsis stuff for a moment, I think it's interesting that there's no content gated behind making the right narrative choices in single-player. What was that like, streamlining the narrative stuff? MD: What I want to make sure is that this is a game that appeals to a different audience than what we've seen before. It would be unfortunate if [players] were to run into a full on conversation wheel like from Mass Effect or Dragon Age and just hit full decision paralysis. Just go, 'I don't want to make the wrong decision.' It's interesting and can provide an interesting experience, if you're ready for it. And I think we're going to have a lot of people in Anthem that haven't been exposed to that, so in part this is a bit of an opportunity to expose them to the concept. And then hopefully, maybe in the future, this makes them open to more complicated branching choices. MG: Yeah, I mean the other way to put it is you can tell a great story with agency and great characters without something being a full-fledged RPG. Which is what anthem isn't. Anthem is not a full-fledged RPG, it's an action game with a lot of these elements. And we think that we're well positioned to be able to bring those elements in because we do have experience with the RPG stuff. But it doesn't mean it has to mimic it because it's trying to be its own thing.
A lot of people are in denial about that, but I don't know how Bioware could have said it any plainer. IT AIN'T AN RPG. Yeah, this is pretty much how I was going to respond - they weren't afraid of telling folks that when it came to Anthem. Stands to reason they'd just tell us the same if they decided to make ME and DA completely like Anthem.
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