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Post by river82 on Jan 11, 2019 21:59:43 GMT
Well Obsidian never pursued the avenue of intense monetization so I am not sure I agree. I think not being beholden to shareholders means they (Bungie) can forge a path of sustainability rather than unchecked growth.
EDIT: Not saying they will, they might add even more to the Eververse store. We are definitely going to find out.
EDIT 2: Obsidian started doing better when they aligned their budget and target audience in a more realistic way.
The problem is they now have a Chinese mobile game maker sitting on their Board of Directors with a minor stake in the company and a very large wallet at Bungie with NetEase and the $100 million they bought that with. NetEase ... that's the abomination responsible for Diablo:Immortals, right? And the game Diablo:Immortals was a template of?
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Post by rras1994 on Jan 11, 2019 22:14:03 GMT
Well Obsidian never pursued the avenue of intense monetization so I am not sure I agree. I think not being beholden to shareholders means they (Bungie) can forge a path of sustainability rather than unchecked growth.
EDIT: Not saying they will, they might add even more to the Eververse store. We are definitely going to find out.
EDIT 2: Obsidian started doing better when they aligned their budget and target audience in a more realistic way.
Obsidian were not in a good financial position and have nearly closed multiple times. They had to get bought by Microsoft or they were going under, PoE2 bombed. And that wasn’t the first time they nearly closed. And I ‘m guessing Bungie is much much bigger than Obsidian. They aren’t going to have an easier time with the financials if they are truly going alone.
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 11, 2019 22:20:33 GMT
Well Obsidian never pursued the avenue of intense monetization so I am not sure I agree. I think not being beholden to shareholders means they (Bungie) can forge a path of sustainability rather than unchecked growth.
EDIT: Not saying they will, they might add even more to the Eververse store. We are definitely going to find out.
EDIT 2: Obsidian started doing better when they aligned their budget and target audience in a more realistic way.
Obsidian were not in a good financial position and have nearly closed multiple times. They had to get bought by Microsoft or they were going under, PoE2 bombed. And that wasn’t the first time they nearly closed. And I ‘m guessing Bungie is much much bigger than Obsidian. They aren’t going to have an easier time with the financials if they are truly going alone. PoE2 bombed? That is pretty sad. So they fell off after PoE1 when they went and made Tyranny? I was under the impression they were on a nice uptick after PoE1?
Bungie is basically the largest independent studio in the world now I think. Maybe CDPR is bigger?
EDIT: Bungie better go F2P with 100 million times the microtransactions then. That seems to work pretty good for some games.
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Post by river82 on Jan 11, 2019 22:22:40 GMT
Obsidian were not in a good financial position and have nearly closed multiple times. They had to get bought by Microsoft or they were going under, PoE2 bombed. And that wasn’t the first time they nearly closed. And I ‘m guessing Bungie is much much bigger than Obsidian. They aren’t going to have an easier time with the financials if they are truly going alone. PoE2 bombed? That is pretty sad. Saddest gaming news of last year
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 11, 2019 22:26:00 GMT
Were they doing well after PoE1? Or am I incorrect in that as well? I really love that game but it barely ran on my garbage PC (I still played it 3 times at like 11 FPS!). I bought it for PS4 though. Been waiting for the PS4 version of PoE2 ... probably not coming now.
I really think they should have had console versions ready to go out the gate but maybe it is just too labor intensive adapting them for consoles.
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Post by river82 on Jan 11, 2019 22:28:19 GMT
Were they doing well after PoE1? Or am I incorrect in that as well? I really love that game but it barely ran on my garbage PC (I still played it 3 times at like 11 FPS!). I bought it for PS4 though. Been waiting for the PS4 version of PoE2 ... probably not coming now. I really think they should have had console versions ready to go out the gate but maybe it is just too labor intensive adapting them for consoles. PoE1 did really well. Tyranny did not meet expectations [1] (and wasn't really supported TBH). PoE2 also did not sell very well (although did well on their crowdfunding), and people knew it didn't do well ever since the Steam leak [1] www.kotaku.com.au/2017/05/tyranny-didnt-meet-sales-expectations-publisher-reveals/
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 11, 2019 22:51:10 GMT
Were they doing well after PoE1? Or am I incorrect in that as well? I really love that game but it barely ran on my garbage PC (I still played it 3 times at like 11 FPS!). I bought it for PS4 though. Been waiting for the PS4 version of PoE2 ... probably not coming now. I really think they should have had console versions ready to go out the gate but maybe it is just too labor intensive adapting them for consoles. PoE1 did really well. Tyranny did not meet expectations [1] (and wasn't really supported TBH). PoE2 also did not sell very well (although did well on their crowdfunding), and people knew it didn't do well ever since the Steam leak [1] www.kotaku.com.au/2017/05/tyranny-didnt-meet-sales-expectations-publisher-reveals/I hope I still get a PoE 2 on my PS4! I want to play through both games back to back.
I really enjoyed the interesting take on character classes and the companions in PoE. Probably my favorite version of Cleric class ever in an RPG.
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Post by giubba on Jan 11, 2019 23:10:03 GMT
PoE2 bombed? That is pretty sad. Saddest gaming news of last year It bombed with merits. I never played a game so focused on being boring right from the beginning plus the whole pirate setting heavily clashed with the previous game
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 11, 2019 23:16:30 GMT
Saddest gaming news of last year It bombed with merits. I never played a game so focused on being boring right from the beginning plus the whole pirate setting heavily clashed with the previous game Do you think someone that loved PoE 1 enough to get through 3 playthroughs at 11 FPS would enjoy part 2 (especially at a better frame rate)?
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Post by malgus on Jan 11, 2019 23:28:41 GMT
It's the same people claiming that bioware could just leave EA if they want, or told them to leave multiple times. There is Two possibilities with these people, either they are unaware of the situation (not knowing that EA OWNS bioware and this is not a partnership) or they are delusional. Because they want BW out of EA so much that they think BW can leave in any ways, tons of them rejecting reality and substitutes their own. And this is far from being a new phenomenon, I have been on jim sterling videos and there is a comments telling bioware to sever ties EA, now the problem is not the existence of the comments but the thousand likes it has. It's the same thing I have seen on a battlefield 5 video where a guy says " of course no german campaign" with approximately 600 likes, even if there was an announced german campaign months ago. Tons of people do not inform themselves on situation before making a comments. It's not the first time it's going to happen and won't be the last. I am beginning to think more and more its about personal narrative then anything else, if it doesn't agree with that persons personal narrative it just doesn't make it through that bubble of willful ignorance. Oh you are totally right, it's like when I speak about mass effect and his so call commercial sucess. Lots of people are quite surprised when I tell them it was never a big franchise in terms of money. The best it did was 200 million with ME 3, and that is not 200 millions of profits but of revenue so it's not counting all the costs of marketing and development. And that 200 million is EVERYTHING included not just the basic game sales but everything put together from dlc, microtransactions, collector's edition, etc. And when I tell them this, they respond with "but the trilogy was a critical sucess..." because they want to think that something good and acclaimed equal big sales... Huum sure... go tell that to Tim Schafer after psychonauts, go tell that to ubisoft after the first beyond good and evil, or obsidian after pillars of eternity 2. People want to think that the mass effect franchise is very important in terms of money because it matters to THEM. While it matters a lot to me, I am aware that it never was the commercial jurggenaut fans want it to be.
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 0:17:59 GMT
Nice point Malgus.
It is also indicative of the norm for Bioware ... they have, for the most part, had a pretty steady and predictable fan base and core group of supporters and it was never COD numbers.
I hope Anthem brings them the big crowds they seem to want to chase ... who am I to criticize them for wanting to rule the world? They make the best RPG's of all time.
My inner pessimist tells me even big RPG devs should target for a demographic of 1 - 3 million sales (like initial launch plus first 3 months) and budget accordingly, then be happy if they exceed that number.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 12, 2019 2:57:44 GMT
The problem is they now have a Chinese mobile game maker sitting on their Board of Directors with a minor stake in the company and a very large wallet at Bungie with NetEase and the $100 million they bought that with. NetEase ... that's the abomination responsible for Diablo:Immortals, right? And the game Diablo:Immortals was a template of? Correct.
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 3:00:51 GMT
NetEase ... that's the abomination responsible for Diablo:Immortals, right? And the game Diablo:Immortals was a template of? Correct. Fuck ...
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 12, 2019 3:36:09 GMT
When the news broke the first thing I thought was 'huh... I wonder how many people now will be demanding from Bioware to escape EA...?', even though I knew it was a very ignorant take...
Also - I'm not a fan of big corporations or their practices, but I really dislike the whole 'evil corpo overlords' and 'heroic indies' narrative... I find large portions of youtube celebrating like they just won a war of some sort just weird.
It does make me wonder how long Bungie will benefit from floating on a cloud of good PR from the move? How long people will forget the slip-ups now that they're independent?
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 12, 2019 5:59:31 GMT
When the news broke the first thing I thought was 'huh... I wonder how many people now will be demanding from Bioware to escape EA...?', even though I knew it was a very ignorant take... Also - I'm not a fan of big corporations or their practices, but I really dislike the whole 'evil corpo overlords' and 'heroic indies' narrative... I find large portions of youtube celebrating like they just won a war of some sort just weird. It does make me wonder how long Bungie will benefit from floating on a cloud of good PR from the move? How long people will forget the slip-ups now that they're independent? I agree with your first two points. With the third I think there was a 50/50 split on who people were blaming for Destiny and generally based on what was going on such as the MTX schemes and such being Activison, but ignoring fans being Bungie. Unlike BioWare where it always seems to be a 100% result of EA and their meddling. My guess is that its going to take until the next major expansion before Bungie might get all the blame for then it should be something completely of their own design instead of because of this season pass approach with the armory DLC. Then again people overlooked BioWare's faults until EA purchased them and then those faults that they commonly had were still EA's fault.
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 12, 2019 21:20:01 GMT
What ever happened to Raven Software, the company that published Jedi Outcast? I heard they were acquired by Activision...Is this still the case? If Activision was subsequently acquired by Bungie (which is owned by Micrsoft)...and now Bungie has dropped Activision....what has become of Raven Software? Sometimes I get the sense that game publishing companies are like those in the movie industry; for every movie I have watched since the late 90s, there has been of course the BIG Studio Distrubtor (20 Cen FOX, Paramount, Spyglass Entertainment, MGM, Warner Bros....you name it) But then there's also credits for seemingly 'smaller companies' appear for maybe just that single movie, and then you never see them again. It's almost like they are created for the singular purpose of publishing for a single movie, then like a traveling caravan, they 'fold up shop' and move on/close down. There seems to be so many of them that they all can't stay in business..... And unless you're acquired by a BIG Corporation OR you make such a stellar product that you stand out well above the competition, it's very difficult to remain in business and remain relevant. Now, that being said, I have enjoyed BIOWARE since days of KOTOR, Buldar's Gate etc...when they were just a 'small' company and long before their acquisition by EA...so I am not saying if EA didn't acquire them they would fail to remain relevant....Not at all, I think Bioware is one of the few companies that very well could do excellently on their own...What I'm saying though (speaking from a 'business model' stand point) it just seems these days that many small studios are being bought by, merged into larger Companies/Corporations (for better or for worse....that is always debatable).
While I don't agree and have never liked what EA has done with their Sports games (releasing yearly media with little or no change to play-ability, graphics engines, tech advances...anything serious that might warrant purchasing what is basically the same game EVERY YEAR; NHL 93-99; 2001 to Present for Example). In those games the only things that actually changes are Team Rosters because to reflect actual, real-world trades between Sports teams, the NFL, NHL, NBA and their Players are licensed to 'participate' in production of the games by their Organizations (and they also receive money)....Unlike, for example, the NCAA football line of games where the NCAA has banned actual University athletes from participating in the production of a game (such things as Motion Capturing, Facial Capturing etc) and they cannot receive any kind of money, because it is against NCAA regulations for student athletes (especially those on scholarship) to receive monetary or other forms of endorsement while playing for their respective school teams or being enrolled as a student (I'm sure we all remember the Reggie Bush incident between his days at USC and the Saints), which caused USC to forfeit their National Titles, pay serious fines, lose more than half of the Scholarships and have their team (and his name) stricken for every record book dating back a ten year period.
I don't agree with EA's practice in this regard...and I have never understood the draw of buying a series of games every year that is basically the same game. I had a friend from childhood who bought never NHL game for every system he owned (PC, SNES etc) he would purchase a copy of the same game for each of those platforms....for every year between 1993 and 2013. There is nothing dramatically, technically or fundamentally different about those games from year-to-year that would entice me to spend 60 plus dollars every year, especially if I have multiple platforms that a particular game runs on.
Having said that, as far as their approach to studios like Bioware or franchises like Mass Effect, Medal of Honor, Dragon Age...what have you....I have yet to see or personally experience anything that would cause me to jump on the "EA Ban Wagon"
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 12, 2019 21:32:40 GMT
In film I think many corporations ARE created for just that film or maybe a few. It is a way to consolidate some financial liability to a limited entity. I think corporations were always meant to be more fleeting and less long term. Ways to compartmentalize financial liability from personal finance etc.
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 12, 2019 21:37:22 GMT
In film I think many corporations ARE created for just that film or maybe a few. It is a way to consolidate some financial liability to a limited entity. I think corporations were always meant to be more fleeting and less long term. Ways to compartmentalize financial liability from personal finance etc. Your really close, film, gaming etc. is no different than contractors who are the prime motivators then your have the subcontractors who do all the work so to speak
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Post by river82 on Jan 12, 2019 21:39:22 GMT
In film I think many corporations ARE created for just that film or maybe a few. It is a way to consolidate some financial liability to a limited entity. I think corporations were always meant to be more fleeting and less long term. Ways to compartmentalize financial liability from personal finance etc. Your really close, film, gaming etc. is no different than contractors who are the prime motivators then your have the subcontractors who do all the work so to speak Not an ideal business practice
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 12, 2019 21:41:58 GMT
Your really close, film, gaming etc. is no different than contractors who are the prime motivators then your have the subcontractors who do all the work so to speak Not an ideal business practice LOL true it is the best way I could explain it
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 13, 2019 3:37:02 GMT
What ever happened to Raven Software, the company that published Jedi Outcast? I heard they were acquired by Activision...Is this still the case? If Activision was subsequently acquired by Bungie (which is owned by Micrsoft)...and now Bungie has dropped Activision....what has become of Raven Software? Sometimes I get the sense that game publishing companies are like those in the movie industry; for every movie I have watched since the late 90s, there has been of course the BIG Studio Distrubtor (20 Cen FOX, Paramount, Spyglass Entertainment, MGM, Warner Bros....you name it) But then there's also credits for seemingly 'smaller companies' appear for maybe just that single movie, and then you never see them again. It's almost like they are created for the singular purpose of publishing for a single movie, then like a traveling caravan, they 'fold up shop' and move on/close down. There seems to be so many of them that they all can't stay in business..... And unless you're acquired by a BIG Corporation OR you make such a stellar product that you stand out well above the competition, it's very difficult to remain in business and remain relevant.
To your first question they still have Raven Software, but they are just a studio that has been zombified to rollout CoD games every third year. The problem is with smaller studio especially right now its hard to make the big budget games people want and the smaller games seem to be PC exclusive. One thing to consider now I cannot find the interview at the moment is one of the founders of BioWare about a year after the two last doctors left the company said that he doubted BioWare would have survived the financial collapse so I am not sure that the BioWare of yore would have survived to this day regardless of what happened. Edit: What do you know, I found it. Interview
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on Jan 13, 2019 15:25:00 GMT
What ever happened to Raven Software, the company that published Jedi Outcast? I heard they were acquired by Activision...Is this still the case? If Activision was subsequently acquired by Bungie (which is owned by Micrsoft)...and now Bungie has dropped Activision....what has become of Raven Software? Sometimes I get the sense that game publishing companies are like those in the movie industry; for every movie I have watched since the late 90s, there has been of course the BIG Studio Distrubtor (20 Cen FOX, Paramount, Spyglass Entertainment, MGM, Warner Bros....you name it) But then there's also credits for seemingly 'smaller companies' appear for maybe just that single movie, and then you never see them again. It's almost like they are created for the singular purpose of publishing for a single movie, then like a traveling caravan, they 'fold up shop' and move on/close down. There seems to be so many of them that they all can't stay in business..... And unless you're acquired by a BIG Corporation OR you make such a stellar product that you stand out well above the competition, it's very difficult to remain in business and remain relevant.
To your first question they still have Raven Software, but they are just a studio that has been zombified to rollout CoD games every third year. The problem is with smaller studio especially right now its hard to make the big budget games people want and the smaller games seem to be PC exclusive. One thing to consider now I cannot find the interview at the moment is one of the founders of BioWare about a year after the two last doctors left the company said that he doubted BioWare would have survived the financial collapse so I am not sure that the BioWare of yore would have survived to this day regardless of what happened. Edit: What do you know, I found it. InterviewMorning, Sanunes. Thank you for the interview link. An interesting and informative read. Mr. Zeschuck and Mr. Musyka were always candid and open but well-spoken, and I think they did an incredible job. I am glad for them that they are happy in what they are doing now, having begun to explore a new chapter in their lives. And I do think that with people like Casey Hudson, Ben Irving, Jon Warner et al at the helm or within the core of Bioware still, that Bioware as a whole will continue to excel in what they do best and what they are obviously continuing to be passionate about, while working within the partnership they have formed with EA as their publishing company.
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More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
Posts: 29,553 Likes: 104,378
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ღ N-Special
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104,378
Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
29,553
August 2016
hrungr
Hrungr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Hrungr
18,258
65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 14, 2019 17:36:33 GMT
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