monkeylungs
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 29, 2019 16:49:31 GMT
If you think charging $20 for a SKIN or $15 for a FO76 power armor paint job from FO4 isn't an insult, then I really don't know what else to say.
You can do with your money whatever you want but greedy is greedy.
A game like eve online sells a locale for 70 dollars in real world money. People buy it as a sign of status. Believe me when I say the pricing shown here so fAR doesn't scream greed or predatory. 20USD for a Javelin armor pack sounds pretty greedy to me. Realistic though, as is the greed. That is 1/3 the cost of the game for a Javelin armor set.
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Post by Sartoz on Jan 29, 2019 16:52:32 GMT
Transparent? ... yes, BUT ... VIP Demo game economy and the GOLD edition are totally different, according to Darrah. That raises alarm bells over here.
They’ve been transparent about the difference and acknowledged that actual pricing of cosmetics is something that can change at any time up to release. How is it raising alarm bells? It’s as transparent as they can possibly be.
Hm... So let's talk about transparency. So, forget the fact that Darrah said the balance in the VIP Demo is super different from the Gold edition, plus the fact the the VIP Demo is from an older build than the main game. I can understand that. Instead, let's concentrate on the game economy which is totally different in the GOLD version. Was Darrah transparent about all of this?... sure he was!!
That's not my point, however. My point is that 1st impressions is extremely important in how a player sees the game. And what did the player see? Well, a false game economy. Given that EA expects to earn money via mtxs, Bio's fate is tied to Anthem making money. The fact that Anthem's game design limits the player in how XP is earned (ie: farming) is proof (imo), that game currency earned vs what you can buy is biased towards the easy way out = mtx.
We will see how this turns out in about three weeks.
Transparency has nothing to do with what we got vs what we will get.
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linksocarina
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 29, 2019 16:59:58 GMT
A game like eve online sells a locale for 70 dollars in real world money. People buy it as a sign of status. Believe me when I say the pricing shown here so fAR doesn't scream greed or predatory. 20USD for a Javelin armor pack sounds pretty greedy to me. Realistic though, as is the greed. That is 1/3 the cost of the game for a Javelin armor set. If it is also 20 bucks, that means it's competitive towards other games. That also drives the market really. Is it greed, or consumer choice?
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monkeylungs
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 29, 2019 17:12:09 GMT
Is it greed, or consumer choice? Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 29, 2019 17:17:53 GMT
We don't know 100% pricing will be visible on the 15th. As Origin Access Premier has its live launch (not just try early) on the 15th, it would seem odd to me if the economy isn't activated, but we'll see soon enough. I recall it said that reviewers were being given access to the game with the intact and working economy.
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linksocarina
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PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 29, 2019 17:24:34 GMT
Is it greed, or consumer choice? Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But you also can't blame one for the other either. The dirty truth of the matter is consumerism gives what consumers want. If they want to buy things at that price, that the threshold where competition will thrive. It's why I don't fault Warframe or Anthem or even Eve Online, with their $70 monocle, for what they do. They are giving what their consumer wants, and people are willing to pay those prices for it. Now, if it's a question of smarter consumers, or at least with better spending practices, thats a whole other conversation. But from an economic standpoint this is not corporate greed or exploitation in the sense of what it could be. That is more to the point of what GTA V online has, or older games like Asura's Wrath, where you had to buy DLC to get the games ending.
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monkeylungs
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 29, 2019 17:40:02 GMT
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But you also can't blame one for the other either. The dirty truth of the matter is consumerism gives what consumers want. If they want to buy things at that price, that the threshold where competition will thrive. It's why I don't fault Warframe or Anthem or even Eve Online, with their $70 monocle, for what they do. They are giving what their consumer wants, and people are willing to pay those prices for it. Now, if it's a question of smarter consumers, or at least with better spending practices, thats a whole other conversation. But from an economic standpoint this is not corporate greed or exploitation in the sense of what it could be. That is more to the point of what GTA V online has, or older games like Asura's Wrath, where you had to buy DLC to get the games ending. Agree 100% I don't mind the microtransactions. I don't even mind if Javelin armor sets are 20USD. I don't mind if they want to get a little greedy. I hope they make Fortnight money and Bioware becomes the premiere dev house for EA. If that happens I hope they split more money with the actual developers though ... but it will mainly just be fat millions going to top execs. Hopefully some sweet bonus checks for the people 'in the trenches' though.
I wouldn't care if they added weapons and crafting items and new blueprints for sale. I don't actually care what they sell or how much they charge for it as long as it isn't random loot box gambling garbage. Show me what you got for sale, tell me the price. We're all good. I won't buy much of it but I don't see how that matters.
I expect them to sell new Javelins for direct purchase only, maybe also for shards.
They can get a little greedy, customers can support the greed if they like. I have no qualms with this. As long as you don't have to buy stuff with real money to access all gameplay content (ie. don't lock out the highest tier of weapon, or skills, etc. behind paywalls) and as long as it is not gambling mechanics.
All of this hinges on one single thing though ... As long as the game works. I just want it to function first and foremost.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jan 29, 2019 18:28:28 GMT
If you think charging $20 for a SKIN or $15 for a FO76 power armor paint job from FO4 isn't an insult, then I really don't know what else to say.
You can do with your money whatever you want but greedy is greedy.
A game like eve online sells a locale for 70 dollars in real world money. People buy it as a sign of status. Believe me when I say the pricing shown here so fAR doesn't scream greed or predatory. Just because people buy overpriced things doesn't mean they aren't overpriced. Quite amazing how the industry has managed to establish F2P business practices for full priced games. The number of people being OK with this or even defending it is concerning. What we ALL get as a result is excessive grind if we don't wan to pay up. How's that fun? Not saying Anthem will necessarily be over the top grindy and as long as MTX stay cosmetic it's no big deal to me. I won't be buying the. But looter shooters and MMOs are predatory by design. It's the digital version of selling crack (to sometimes children). Pretending that they aren't just because not everybody gets addicted is part of the problem. MTX are never not predatory to me. But well, we don't need to get into that any further. There was a thread for this. And my stance hasn't changed. I'm not voting in the poll because there's no option for my opinion.
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giubba
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Post by giubba on Jan 29, 2019 18:42:07 GMT
A game like eve online sells a locale for 70 dollars in real world money. People buy it as a sign of status. Believe me when I say the pricing shown here so fAR doesn't scream greed or predatory. Just because people buy overpriced things doesn't mean they aren't overpriced. Quite amazing how the industry has managed to establish F2P business practices for full priced games. The number of people being OK with this or even defending it is concerning. What we ALL get as a result is excessive grind if we don't wan to pay up. How's that fun? Good would you buy a game normal version for console for ~80$ and for PC ~70$ ?
Because that's what ,worldwide, the current inflation should have bring the price of gaming. At the moment the industry is selling games at lower value they should do because everybody is fucking terrified of what those 10 extra bucks (that should already had been added since ~10 years ago) do to their market.
Would it implode because the consumer would riot? Would 10 bucks still BE enough because as far as i read that sum could be already outdated.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 29, 2019 18:45:53 GMT
Well, as far as I am concerned, if they do keep with just cosmetic stuff, the can ask whatever they want, it won't really affect me in the slightest.
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xrayspex73
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Post by xrayspex73 on Jan 29, 2019 19:03:19 GMT
They better not put all good designs behind a microtransaction paywall. We better be able to earn extra Javelin armor sets through playing. This isn't a F2P game Bioware. Let's try and not forget this fact.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jan 29, 2019 19:04:39 GMT
But is DOES affect everyone! They make it extra difficult to grind for this stuff in game so you're more willing to just buy what you want.
It's naive to think MTX have no influence on game progression.
Boy have things changed in 2019 regarding MTX. Slow boiling the frog really does work on people...
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tjmitchem
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by tjmitchem on Jan 29, 2019 19:14:00 GMT
Did Bioware announce the price of shards, and I just missed it?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 29, 2019 19:17:08 GMT
Did Bioware announce the price of shards, and I just missed it? They did not, the speculation machine is running at full pelt.
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tjmitchem
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To the Archon! Face down, ass up.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: tjmitchem
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Post by tjmitchem on Jan 29, 2019 19:19:23 GMT
Did Bioware announce the price of shards, and I just missed it? They did not, the speculation machine is running at full pelt. I should have indicated the sarcasm in my post somehow This is how idiots people like Yongyea get their clicks. Take total speculation and present it as fact, while their devoted fanboys eat it up.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 29, 2019 19:29:11 GMT
They better not put all good designs behind a microtransaction paywall. We better be able to earn extra Javelin armor sets through playing. This isn't a F2P game Bioware. Let's try and not forget this fact. I believe they stated that ALL cosmetics and armor, except the Legion of Dawn edition stuff, would be able to be earned in-game.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 29, 2019 19:30:03 GMT
Yongyea get their clicks. Take total speculation and present it as fact, while their devoted fanboys eat it up. I used to quite like Yong's videos when he covered Metal Gear Solid, but the last couple of years he's totally followed the clicks in my view. I've long since given up watching them on principle. Going into the comments is like getting a Piranha bath.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 29, 2019 19:34:00 GMT
But is DOES affect everyone! They make it extra difficult to grind for this stuff in game so you're more willing to just buy what you want. It's naive to think MTX have no influence on game progression. Boy have things changed in 2019 regarding MTX. Slow boiling the frog really does work on people... It might be extra-difficult to grind, sure. But that shouldn't impact progression because nothing involved with progression is impacted by mtx. No weapons or abilities or anything that actually matters to gameplay is connected to mtx's. This isn't like Shadow of War orc packs where they added that huge grind at the end to entice people to buy them.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 29, 2019 19:35:03 GMT
They did not, the speculation machine is running at full pelt. I should have indicated the sarcasm in my post somehow This is how idiots people like Yongyea get their clicks. Take total speculation and present it as fact, while their devoted fanboys eat it up. Or certain Youtubers claiming that they have "inside sources" only to be proven wrong.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 29, 2019 19:36:30 GMT
But is DOES affect everyone! They make it extra difficult to grind for this stuff in game so you're more willing to just buy what you want. It's naive to think MTX have no influence on game progression. Boy have things changed in 2019 regarding MTX. Slow boiling the frog really does work on people... What I'm trying to say is, I personally (and really, that's just me) don't really care enough about whether or not I have some now metal shader on the suit or some new emoji-animation to care whether it take me 1 hour or 100 hours of play time to get one. If I at some point have the coins to spend on something (and if they are useless anywhere else), I will but if not, well, that's ok too. As long as all items that are actually relevant to gameplay are kept away from MTX, I am good.
I get why other people might care about such things, and all the power to them for getting a fair situation, as a matter of principle, I might even believe that a full priced game should have very very low MTX costs for anything (if any MYX at all). So I am certainly rooting for people who argue for low prices but in this case, I am just really not affected, so as far as I am concerned, there is no MTX or any problem with in game grind times for anything I feel I really want to get.
Now if they ever back out of their "cosmetics only" statement, I'll be sailing the shitstorm with the rest.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 29, 2019 19:42:01 GMT
Bottom line is, if they don't release hard pricing info prior to launch it will be a serious fuck you to the players. Why before launch? Let’s say Marvel/Disney want to do a promo for a movie coming out in the summer — say an Iron Man skin. EA and Disney do a deal to offer it in Anthem in June, but Disney requires a $20 cut, even though the max established at launch of Anthem was $10 for a skin, with the majority being half that price. You think EA should turn down the deal because of some artificial limit set earlier? Even if market testing shows it would sell like hot cakes? Setting any kind of price ceiling would be dumb. Not when the Nike Lebron X sold for $350. There is no upper bound on stupid people and their money. A time table would also be dumb, because co-marketing deals can come at any time That said, the majority of stuff will find natural price points. Pray for high volume, if you want prices to be low on average.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Jan 29, 2019 19:43:23 GMT
Yongyea get their clicks. Take total speculation and present it as fact, while their devoted fanboys eat it up. I used to quite like Yong's videos when he covered Metal Gear Solid, but the last couple of years he's totally followed the clicks in my view. I've long since given up watching them on principle. Going into the comments is like getting a Piranha bath. Him, Downward Thrust, Cleanprincegaming, LegacyKillaHD, and Upper Echelon Gaming are some of the worst offenders I’ve seen. They all have the same crowd judging by the comments sections that just feed on negativity and pushing negative spin as far as it will take them. EA is an easy target and people love to hate them, not without some reason, but it’s become a morass of toxic self reinforcing loathing that’s easily monetized by those willing to feed it.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jan 29, 2019 19:45:44 GMT
Heimdall If they had an idea about how to price cosmetic items, and were confident in their decisions, they could have come out by now, or even weeks ago. It is not Bioware's fault that they are under dramatically increased scrutiny regarding MTX because of EA, but it is what it is. EA has been effing up for a loooong time now, so plenty of time to take this fact into consideration and act accordingly. You can work yourself into a speculative tizzy if you want, but there’s nothing to gain by doing so. If BioWare badly misjudges MTX pricing, tell them so when they do it. I really don’t understand the idea that they haven’t finalized pricing should be seen as a warning sign, that seems like scraping the barrel of reasons to be concerned. Sure, they could mess it up, but all a lack of finalized decision means is that they haven’t finalized a decision. It does not portend what that decision will be. There’s no such thing as final pricing in retail. Particularly for vanity items. This whole discussion is divorced from reality. Well, capitalist reality anyway. Price will be a function of perceived value, volume, and competitive pressure (assuming there is any). All of those parameters change over time.
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helios969
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Post by helios969 on Jan 29, 2019 20:21:50 GMT
If the game is fun then the grind is lost in that. If the game is not fun buying cosmetics with real world money isn't suddenly going to make it so. So all this stuff is a non-issue.
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hawkspian
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Post by hawkspian on Jan 29, 2019 20:48:24 GMT
Micro transactions don't bother me one bit. I work hard for good money, this is just another options for me to spend it frivolously, I've spent money on Warframe to buy plat to buy prime warframes and guns off trade chat. I've also spent money before on loot boxes on mass effect three multiplayer. Way I see it is it's an option. If you don't want to spend the money or you can't afford it then don't buy it, it's that simple. How anyone else spends their money and what they buy doesn't affect you in the slightest. Just my two cents.
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