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Post by clips7 on Mar 12, 2019 19:22:41 GMT
To OP, I think this is the start of the end of BW for sure. If this game will somehow turn out a success in the long run that's why. They will be forced to make more similar games in the future. If the game stays the mess it currently is then that's why. Their reputation is basically gone at this point. Years ago some could almost blindly buy a BW game, because there was almost no risk not buying a crappy game. But success or not, EA already said they are not interested in single player games anymore and this is where Bioware excelled at, good games with good storytelling. Bioware meant quality, but what does it mean now after Andromeda and now Anthem? Does not matter what they come up with in the future, the trust is lost. They alienated their big chunk of their core fans, every small mistake they do from now on will be magnified. Even if they show something promising, people will remain skeptical, we all know how different the final Anthem game is, compared to those promising E3 videos. They will have to do miracles to turn the tide from this point... This sounds more of an "EA" thing than it being the evolution of Bioware. As many have mentioned, Single player story-telling and interesting characters is Bioware's bread and butter. EA owns Bioware and at this point Bioware has to do what EA wants. Of course Bioware is going to market Anthem to no end, but I have always stated that Anthem felt like a game Bioware was forced to make rather than a game they wanted to make. I came in on the Bioware bandwagon on ME2 when it first dropped on PS3 and I was instantly hooked.....ME2 & 3 was some of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. It's good when you have a big company like EA that can grant you big budgets for your games, but being that EA actually purchased Bioware, they are sort of at EA's mercy right now. At least Bungie was able to keep their Destiny IP and break away from Activision....Bioware are in no position to do that. If EA was accompany like Sony that encourages SP games then I would assume that Anthem would have probably been a great SP experience if it was up to Bioware….there's a different mindset and culture at EA right now and they have shut down great developers in the past that they felt have under performed...I hope Bioware doesn't share those developers fate. With Anthem I just have this stereotypical image of a bunch of guys in suits that don't have a clue about anything telling Bioware to make this looter/shooter game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 12, 2019 19:25:21 GMT
What do you mean the first type of this kind? DICE developed the engine and has done online shooters galore with it. Open-world online shooters with things like flying mechanics, 3rd person perspective, ability trees and RPG/dialogue tree/cine systems that will be further expanded over years of live services? Or just a pretty narrow type of online shooters that the game like Anthem (or any BW game) simply isn't? It's been well publicized over years that devs at Bioware (and other EA studios) are creating many, maaaaaaany tools for DICE's original engine to handle story-focused RPGs and aRPGs (or just games that aren't online shooters). Bioware already did two action RPGs on the engine and flight mechanics isn't exactly new neither if you look at Battlefield. How long do you think they have to develop these tools?
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 19:57:43 GMT
This sounds more of an "EA" thing than it being the evolution of Bioware. As many have mentioned, Single player story-telling and interesting characters is Bioware's bread and butter. EA owns Bioware and at this point Bioware has to do what EA wants. Of course Bioware is going to market Anthem to no end, but I have always stated that Anthem felt like a game Bioware was forced to make rather than a game they wanted to make. I came in on the Bioware bandwagon on ME2 when it first dropped on PS3 and I was instantly hooked.....ME2 & 3 was some of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. It's good when you have a big company like EA that can grant you big budgets for your games, but being that EA actually purchased Bioware, they are sort of at EA's mercy right now. At least Bungie was able to keep their Destiny IP and break away from Activision....Bioware are in no position to do that. If EA was accompany like Sony that encourages SP games then I would assume that Anthem would have probably been a great SP experience if it was up to Bioware….there's a different mindset and culture at EA right now and they have shut down great developers in the past that they felt have under performed...I hope Bioware doesn't share those developers fate. With Anthem I just have this stereotypical image of a bunch of guys in suits that don't have a clue about anything telling Bioware to make this looter/shooter game. I always this phrase ‘forced to make’ and I think it’s wrong. I don’t think ea is holding a gun to a puppy and telling bioware to make the game or else the puppy gets it. bioware is the puppy, they want to please their master ea and get told what a good boy they are.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 12, 2019 20:02:49 GMT
I think the lessons from Anthem can really help DA4. Fully integrating multiplayer into the plot would be an excellent start as they wimped out in DAI. Using the GAAS engine will also allow content to be delivered more like Anthem. That might require DA4 to be online only, but that's a small price to pay. Anthem was an attempt to do 'GAAS well'. I think that is yet to be proved (and there is still time to prove it), but BioWare will have at least 2 years of experience of it by the time DA4 arrives. I think DA4 will show more progression from DAI compared to the progression DAO had to DA2 and DA2 to DAI. I play a couple of games that are online only, currently Destiny 2 and now Anthem, but if Dragon Age 4 turned into an online only game with the whole GAAS model baked in, I'm afraid I'd have to throw in the towel and mourn the loss of an IP that I love. I don't want to see XXElfBoySlayerzXX's user handle wandering around in some big medieval sandbox somewhere. I don't want this game to be yet another title that I can't turn to when EA's servers inevitably shit the bed. I'd hate to be in the middle of a quest, hell, a CUTSCENE, to suddenly get booted.
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Post by officerdonnz on Mar 12, 2019 20:04:21 GMT
I always this phrase ‘forced to make’ and I think it’s wrong. I don’t think ea is holding a gun to a puppy and telling bioware to make the game or else the puppy gets it. bioware is the puppy, they want to please their master ea and get told what a good boy they are. That's probably not far from the truth, sadly.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Mar 12, 2019 20:09:15 GMT
It's simple, and they just haven't noticed yet after all these years, and after all the other companies making the same mistakes: You make a shit game, people are gonna shit on you. Everyone, youtubers, streamers, players. People are gonna shit on you. They need to finally understand this. I can count with one hand probably the number of people willing to give free passes to these companies, and BW wasn't on a good position to begin with. It is how it is, this is the time we're living in, when people express their opinions far more than they used to back then, there're way more tools to do so and they have the freedom to do it. There is no such thing as dissatisfied Bioware fans... only Russian trolls.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 12, 2019 20:12:12 GMT
Specifically, I'm talking about the limitations on skills accessible at any given point in time. DAI was stripped of the ability to change gear during combat (in spite of toting it around in inventory) and programmable tactics. MEA resorted to this weird classless profiling thing where you could change abilities anytime, but still have only 3 available for immediate use. Was any of that BioWare's choice, or were they simply trying to make the best of what they could do with Frostbite? Did BioWare really want to remove magical healing from DAI, or was that a compromise they made due to limitations imposed by Frostbite? Since just about every FPS ever has magical healing, it's unclear how Frostbite could possibly cause a problem in that area. I think I already addressed this, here: Basically, they took lore-based healing magic away from mages and replaced it with barrier (a talent) and warrior guard generation (which happens automatically). Yet they seemed pretty proud of their efforts to restore the tactical camera w/ pause mechanics. And dual-wielding. I vaguely remember something something follower personality definition wrt things like Merrill having no healing tree, Isabela being unable to equip a bow, etc. (Like I'm sure a Dalish First wouldn't learn healing magic, nor a Pirate Captain ranged combat skills.) I mean on the laundry list of design decisions I took issue with in DA:I, restricting ranged attacks to mages and rogues wasn't something I took a lot of issue with. I can see them wanting to make classes unique. I wasn’t too thrilled with them turning mages into Jedi though. I can, too, up to a point - but I feel that they pushed too hard for balanced party composition in DAI. It's one thing to need a rogue to unlock anything, another to specifically need a warrior, rogue, or mage to get through each specific barrier.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Mar 12, 2019 20:27:18 GMT
Anthem has been received really poorly - like way worse than I ever imagined to the point I am slightly stunned tbh. I think they're done, just don't know it yet. Well, I mean, its not as bad as FO76. At least Bioware isn't doxing people that put tickets into their support centers. That is something I guess. I agree though, even if they aren't outright closed after this EA is certain to tighten the reins on their budgets and creative freedom moving forward. Maybe I'm weird, but I thought Bioware's main studio was "diagnosed as terminally ill" with ME2. When the game started with Shep's contrived death, the shoehorning with Cerberus and the general meandering with the main plot, I was positive the Bioware of old was dead. I'm with you on that one. ME2 was easily my least favorite Bioware game that I have played. ME2 is a better game than ME3, DAI, ME:A and Anthem combined. I love it for the Cerberus, for TIM, for all interesting companions and very good atmosphere. ME3 had potentials and Bioware ruined it, I remember giving ME3 a 6.5/10... Also a reminder that Jacob is a better character than all Andromeda companions combined. The last writing talents of Bioware died right after Inquisition. I think the BioWare we knew and loved passed away a long time ago. Every new BioWare game from 2012 onward just feels more streamlined but still bloated. The amount of RPG systems lost, how combat has overtaken narrative instead of complimenting it, characters being flanderized, more grinding/fetch quests to pad the play time, music that fails to make your heart race, and this is not accounting BioWare troubles with their offices. This.
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Post by decafhigh on Mar 12, 2019 20:53:36 GMT
Well, I mean, its not as bad as FO76. At least Bioware isn't doxing people that put tickets into their support centers. That is something I guess. I agree though, even if they aren't outright closed after this EA is certain to tighten the reins on their budgets and creative freedom moving forward. I'm with you on that one. ME2 was easily my least favorite Bioware game that I have played. ME2 is a better game than ME3, DAI, ME:A and Anthem combined. I love it for the Cerberus, for TIM, for all interesting companions and very good atmosphere. ME3 had potentials and Bioware ruined it, I remember giving ME3 a 6.5/10... Those are basically all the reasons I disliked ME2. They tried to, for whatever reason, reboot the franchise and it went over like lead balloon for me. They dropped all the OG companions for a bunch of emotionally stunted (wo)man-childs and changed ME from an epic space opera to "Michael Bay Does Space". ME3 was bad because of ME2 and the focus on Cerberus and the fact the trilogy was basically lacking a second chapter. And the whole ending fiasco of course. As an interactive narrative though ME3 was more enjoyable for me than ME2. ME3 at least had a focused story to tell instead of being a collection of a dozen different short stories.
Haven't played Anthem and maybe a hour or two of DAI so can't really comment on them.
Edit: Oh and forgot about ME:A. Ironic. It wasn't terrible. The writing was shallow and some of the ideology evident in the game rubbed me the wrong way, but it didn't instill the sort of animosity in me that ME2 did.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 12, 2019 21:05:06 GMT
Open-world online shooters with things like flying mechanics, 3rd person perspective, ability trees and RPG/dialogue tree/cine systems that will be further expanded over years of live services? Or just a pretty narrow type of online shooters that the game like Anthem (or any BW game) simply isn't? It's been well publicized over years that devs at Bioware (and other EA studios) are creating many, maaaaaaany tools for DICE's original engine to handle story-focused RPGs and aRPGs (or just games that aren't online shooters). Bioware already did two action RPGs on the engine and flight mechanics isn't exactly new neither if you look at Battlefield. How long do you think they have to develop these tools? You don't have flight mechanics the like of Anthem in Battlefield. Those are simply two different things. In fact, there is hardly anything like Anthem on the whole market. Also - making two action RPGs and making an online action RPG/looter-shooter with the live-service component - also two different things. Pair two abovementioned things and you're going to get something that surely must require new things or pushing the current engine to what it can currently do (our flight ceiling, for example, exists because graphics streaming has been pushed to the limit with all the flying).
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Post by Iakus on Mar 12, 2019 21:23:02 GMT
Bioware died years ago. What's left is EA wearing its skin as a mask.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 12, 2019 22:33:39 GMT
Maybe you didn't read carefully enough. He enjoyed the games, and therefore everyone else's feelings and criticism are invalidated. I think you may be the one requiring more accurate reading skills. I gave an opinion: 'to my mind', 'I've enjoyed', opinions that are no more or less invalid to share than anyone else's. If you feel your ability to criticize has been stifled, do let me know where, because you certainly seem able to do plenty of it.
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Post by Spectr61 on Mar 12, 2019 23:03:54 GMT
Who says Casey gets a "bad rap" for the ME3 fiasco? Not to re-hash, but the fact that there is such a thing as a ME3 fiasco is fact. Also fact is that Casey was in charge. So why does he get a "bad rap" for being in charge with the resultant fiasco? Blame the EA overlords if you want, but EA did not come up with, nor write, the ending(s). EA is probably to blame for mandating the use of the Frostshite engine, when Blower was good at using Unreal, but again, that is after the fiasco. To me, it seems like a lack of accountability. Those in charge during the fiasco, remain. To wit, both Casey and Mac Walters are listed in the Anthem credits. Mac also for MEA. What a shocker.
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Post by Spectr61 on Mar 12, 2019 23:09:02 GMT
Anthem has been received really poorly - like way worse than I ever imagined to the point I am slightly stunned tbh. I think they're done, just don't know it yet. I'm sure your opinion differs, so do tell! I saw you voted for the Casey option. I actually think this is Aaron Flynn's fault, not Casey's. It seems telling that Casey returned and Aaron left right as Anthem publicity began in earnest in summer 2017. Andromeda went off the rails under Aaron's leadership, and it seems clear that years of Anthem development time had to be thrown out the window, which again would have been under Aaron. It makes more sense that Casey was brought in to try to salvage something that was floundering. Casey gets a bad rap for the ME3 ending, but it's really just the result of one bad judgment call in response to a leak. Casey's strong vision is the guiding force for some of Bioware's best work, i.e. most of the ME trilogy and KOTOR. I don't think he's really to blame here. Mis-quoted the post above. Should have been this post that was quoted. User error. Following the thread of accountability, I will now recuse myself. Apologies.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 12, 2019 23:57:32 GMT
I think you may be the one requiring more accurate reading skills. I gave an opinion: 'to my mind', 'I've enjoyed', opinions that are no more or less invalid to share than anyone else's. If you feel your ability to criticize has been stifled, do let me know where, because you certainly seem able to do plenty of it. Attack me all you want, your post says what it says. I've reposted it with the message it was replying to below. Readers can decide for themselves what you were saying. At what point do some people to understand that something is inherently wrong at Bioware? To my mind, that statement is flawed. I've enjoyed all of BioWare's games, including MEA and Anthem. They sure need to get out of the habit of launching unready, but the games are good. I was addressing the substance of your response, but if you want to talk about your "stifling" criticism, we could discuss your purporting to speak on behalf of the entire forum in tweets praising the game. That's probably best left elsewhere, though.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 13, 2019 0:24:30 GMT
"Inherently wrong" still looks like a stretch.
Edit: we can revisit this after the financials are in and we know how badly Anthem failed, if it failed at all.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 13, 2019 0:29:14 GMT
Might as well hand over the Dragon Age and Mass Effectfranchise to Obsidian, because BioWare is a shadow of it's former self.
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Post by jackdaniel on Mar 13, 2019 0:33:05 GMT
Might as well hand over the Dragon Age and Mass Effectfranchise to Obsidian, because BioWare is a shadow of it's former self. I second that.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 13, 2019 0:36:48 GMT
Might as well hand over the Dragon Age and Mass Effectfranchise to Obsidian, because BioWare is a shadow of it's former self. I'd really rather they not be Xbox exclusives.
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Post by floratheelf on Mar 13, 2019 0:42:47 GMT
Anthem really isn't deserving of all this hate, and that's coming from someone who was not very interested in the game at all before trying it. In spite of the bugs, Bioware doesn't deserve to have this game ripped to shreds. Too many people are blindly jumping aboard the hate train imo.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 13, 2019 0:48:09 GMT
Basically, they took lore-based healing magic away from mages and replaced it with barrier (a talent) and warrior guard generation (which happens automatically). Guard is automatic? But yeah, a pure gameplay decision with no real relationship to the lore. Not exactly restore. More like preserve, since they'd had the feature in the previous games
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 13, 2019 1:04:22 GMT
Basically, they took lore-based healing magic away from mages and replaced it with barrier (a talent) and warrior guard generation (which happens automatically). Guard is automatic? But yeah, a pure gameplay decision with no real relationship to the lore. It's been awhile, but I thought guard was generated by attacking and using abilities. IOW, by playing. I thought they'd pulled it out in DA2? DAI was the first time they offered it on consoles.
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Post by beelzebub on Mar 13, 2019 1:09:59 GMT
God, I'm terrified that DA4 was rebooted into a GaaS, multiplayer-focused, microtransaction-filled game. Imagine the morale of the DA team, who, after Anthem's release, are feeling the weight of the company on them. You know you need to knock it out of the ballpark with an amazing game, but that game was left on the drawing board two years ago.
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 13, 2019 1:35:19 GMT
"Inherently wrong" still looks like a stretch. Edit: we can revisit this after the financials are in and we know how badly Anthem failed, if it failed at all. Now, I can't speak for others. But I personally don't give 2 shits about "financials" , why? because for starters I plain don't care (I mean, if EAs CEO was to loose all his money overnight I'd be super happy, but I digress...), but more importantly because it doesn't prove a game is good. Fallout 4 surpased Skyrim in sales astronomically, yet it's the weakest FO game Bethesda ever pulled, and Skyrim was the weakest ES after Red Guard. Yet a game like Dishonored was a bit on the low side financially speaking, even though it was critically acclaimed. In this industry of pre orders and hype and pre marketing no wonder some games still have good sales, because 80% of those were pre orders, and a lot of people don't get refunds (or can't). I don't see new people looking at Anthem right now and saying "yeah, I'm gonna buy this right now". They wait, for all the patches and discounts. Those who already bought it, well, they already bought it. Sales don't always translate in good games.
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Post by monkeylungs on Mar 13, 2019 2:41:27 GMT
Might as well hand over the Dragon Age and Mass Effectfranchise to Obsidian, because BioWare is a shadow of it's former self. Nope just leave them to rest.
Should have concluded Dragon Age with the last game. Made it a trilogy and told a real story for the ages. Now instead of burning out brightly it is going to fade away and likely the next chapter will be a bastardization live service mulitplayer fully integrated piece of shit.
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