fchopin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fchopin on Apr 12, 2019 2:43:01 GMT
I am not talking about Frostbite, i am talking about using code that is for an online game for single player that is not an online game so you explain to me how that will be done.
Frostbite is the code used for the online game that is Anthem! It's the game engine upon which everything is written and it needed a lot of changes to get it to work for Anthem. I assumed from Casey's statement that he was referring to Anthem when he said they were going to re-use all the work they did getting Frostbite to work iwth the sort of things they needed to do rather than building everything from scratch. If he also meant that they would re-use other parts of the code not connected to Frostbite (assuming that's even a thing) then that's fine since it doesn't change my point.
The code that manages Anthem as a shared world is only a fraction of the code that makes the game. What about the code that allows for 3d flight, the animation of your character's movements, the user interface, the code that renders the landscape, the code that maintains an inventory, the code that maintains the codex, the code that handles the animation of the NPC's you talk to, the code that handles the loading and saving of game state, the code that manages the sound and syncs it with the action or with the direction that the character is facing, the code that allows for the different textures and colours on your Javelin...
There are hundreds of ways they can re-use code from Anthem even if it is exactly the same type of game as Inquisition.
Re-using code is just logical time and resource saving. It implies nothing about the actual type of game they end up with at all.
I know they used Frostbite but why not use the code from DAI? DAI was not an online game and they could continue from the experience they had. Using code from an online game is not a good idea unless they want to make DA4 an online shared game and that would not make DA4 a single player RPG game.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 12, 2019 3:16:06 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now
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Post by river82 on Apr 12, 2019 7:30:17 GMT
Eh, there's not much Anthem news at the moment so here's a nicely thought out video on the latest Epic store drama. Or what seems to be "game devs vs gamers round 203". Spicy!
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Thrombin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 12, 2019 10:23:22 GMT
Frostbite is the code used for the online game that is Anthem! It's the game engine upon which everything is written and it needed a lot of changes to get it to work for Anthem. I assumed from Casey's statement that he was referring to Anthem when he said they were going to re-use all the work they did getting Frostbite to work iwth the sort of things they needed to do rather than building everything from scratch. If he also meant that they would re-use other parts of the code not connected to Frostbite (assuming that's even a thing) then that's fine since it doesn't change my point.
The code that manages Anthem as a shared world is only a fraction of the code that makes the game. What about the code that allows for 3d flight, the animation of your character's movements, the user interface, the code that renders the landscape, the code that maintains an inventory, the code that maintains the codex, the code that handles the animation of the NPC's you talk to, the code that handles the loading and saving of game state, the code that manages the sound and syncs it with the action or with the direction that the character is facing, the code that allows for the different textures and colours on your Javelin...
There are hundreds of ways they can re-use code from Anthem even if it is exactly the same type of game as Inquisition.
Re-using code is just logical time and resource saving. It implies nothing about the actual type of game they end up with at all.
I know they used Frostbite but why not use the code from DAI? DAI was not an online game and they could continue from the experience they had. Using code from an online game is not a good idea unless they want to make DA4 an online shared game and that would not make DA4 a single player RPG game.
Maybe they will use code from DAI or maybe the code from Anthem is better or maybe they will use both. But the code that handles graphics or sound or animation or a host of other things could be exactly the same whether it's used for an online game or an offline game so there is nothing whatsoever implied by the idea of re-using Anthem code when it comes to the question of whether it is online or not.
While I'm not a game developer I have been a professional programmer for some 35 years now. I know a little of how these things work
I'm not saying it won't be online (although the chances of it not being single-player are pretty remote in my opinion since that defeats the object of the franchise) I'm just saying that the decision to use resources already developed on anthem on DA4 doesn't imply anything one way or the other on that front. There will be stuff they can reuse for single player and stuff that only applies to multi-player. They can re-use what they need and not use what doesn't apply. Simple as that.
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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 12, 2019 11:07:03 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now Probably, although they might tone down multi requirement a bit more than in anthem, I think.
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cypherj
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2019 11:34:19 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
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Thrombin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 12, 2019 13:04:40 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
Exactly. Anthem was a new game trying out a new idea. Dragon Age is an established single-player RPG. There's no point using an existing franchise if you aren't going to use the name to attract back fans of that franchise. If you're going to change the game's entire genre then that's not going to work.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 12, 2019 13:19:25 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
You and I see it. That doesn't mean that EA does so, too, however.
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Post by goishen on Apr 12, 2019 13:28:51 GMT
Yah, that's what they said about Diablo 3, too.
But yah, sure. Believe what you want.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 12, 2019 13:31:27 GMT
Ex DS/COD Director: Anthem’s Lack of a Real Beta Was a Misstep.
The question asked of Michael Condrey was: "Anthem hurt with the public Beta?".
An excerpt from the article below.
Call of Duty had the luxury of time and big teams. We had built a lot of tools around the simulation of the experience. We had a bot farm that ran matches all the time, every day, constantly. We had tools that would input lag into our internal network to simulate what that would look like in the real world. Betas are important, but the challenge......
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 12, 2019 13:37:32 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
Star Wars BF has both a SP campaign and is MP focused. The studio has always pushed the envelope and with the FB game editor focused on the visuals. I personally don't like what I see. That is DA4 being a "live service", MP focused with skin MTXs.
Remember that the game must have a tail end revenue stream. The core game will be designed around that revenue.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 12, 2019 14:08:45 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
During DA2release they said they wanted to attract COD numbers. For DAI they got COD streamers to play DAI in the apparent hope those gamers would be interested. It seems delusional to me but that seems to be the audience they’ve wanted to attract in the past. They don’t need to market to DA players who are already interested. But no, that doesn’t mean a genre switch is inevitable or even likely.
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cypherj
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2019 14:11:07 GMT
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
Star Wars BF has both a SP campaign and is MP focused. The studio has always pushed the envelope and with the FB game editor focused on the visuals. I personally don't like what I see. That is DA4 being a "live service", MP focused with skin MTXs.
Remember that the game must have a tail end revenue stream. The core game will be designed around that revenue.
BF has always been a MP focused shooter with a SP campaign tacked on. Just like Battlefield. People know what they're getting with those games, and don't expect the SP campaign to be anything stellar or groundbreaking. DA is a SP franchise that didn't even have MP in the original game. If they made it a MP focused, with a tacked on SP campaign the quality of a Battlefield or Battlefront story line, the game wouldn't sell.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2019 14:22:37 GMT
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
You and I see it. That doesn't mean that EA does so, too, however.
After the receptions Andromeda and Anthem got, I think EA just wants Bioware's next major release to be drama free. Taking a SP franchise and turning it into MP franchise would accomplish the exact opposite. They're a lot of ways it can go sideways.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 12, 2019 14:42:25 GMT
You and I see it. That doesn't mean that EA does so, too, however.
After the receptions Andromeda and Anthem got, I think EA just wants Bioware's next major release to be drama free. Taking a SP franchise and turning it into MP franchise would accomplish the exact opposite. They're a lot of ways it can go sideways.
I think EA wants money, regardless of how they make it. If they believe it will rake in the cash, they won't think twice.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2019 15:05:51 GMT
After the receptions Andromeda and Anthem got, I think EA just wants Bioware's next major release to be drama free. Taking a SP franchise and turning it into MP franchise would accomplish the exact opposite. They're a lot of ways it can go sideways.
I think EA wants money, regardless of how they make it. If they believe it will rake in the cash, they won't think twice.
Bad receptions do cost you money because they can cause your sales to fall off more quickly than your forecast. If they say DA4 wil be MP focused a group of people are going to not buy the game just because it's MP. Just like there were probably a lot of Bioware fans that didn't buy Anthem because that's not the type of game they play. This time you're not selling a game where you're flying around in an Iron man suit. You're selling a converted SP game, that's a sequel to game, and a continuation of a franchise any newcomers would never have played before. I just can't see them taking that risk.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 12, 2019 15:13:28 GMT
I think EA wants money, regardless of how they make it. If they believe it will rake in the cash, they won't think twice.
Bad receptions do cost you money because they can cause your sales to fall off more quickly than your forecast. If they say DA4 wil be MP focused a group of people are going to not buy the game just because it's MP. Just like there were probably a lot of Bioware fans that didn't buy Anthem because that's not the type of game they play. This time you're not selling a game where you're flying around in an Iron man suit. You're selling a converted SP game, that's a sequel to game, and a continuation of a franchise any newcomers would never have played before. I just can't see them taking that risk.
I most certainly do hope so. But I guess people that loved WarCraft 3 expected an RTS sequel as well.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 12, 2019 15:15:56 GMT
Frostbite is the code used for the online game that is Anthem! It's the game engine upon which everything is written and it needed a lot of changes to get it to work for Anthem. I assumed from Casey's statement that he was referring to Anthem when he said they were going to re-use all the work they did getting Frostbite to work iwth the sort of things they needed to do rather than building everything from scratch. If he also meant that they would re-use other parts of the code not connected to Frostbite (assuming that's even a thing) then that's fine since it doesn't change my point.
The code that manages Anthem as a shared world is only a fraction of the code that makes the game. What about the code that allows for 3d flight, the animation of your character's movements, the user interface, the code that renders the landscape, the code that maintains an inventory, the code that maintains the codex, the code that handles the animation of the NPC's you talk to, the code that handles the loading and saving of game state, the code that manages the sound and syncs it with the action or with the direction that the character is facing, the code that allows for the different textures and colours on your Javelin... There are hundreds of ways they can re-use code from Anthem even if it is exactly the same type of game as Inquisition. Re-using code is just logical time and resource saving. It implies nothing about the actual type of game they end up with at all.
I know they used Frostbite but why not use the code from DAI? Because: Anthem has swimming/underwater traversal. DAI did not. Anthem has reactive water features (pools, waterfalls). DAI did not. Anthem has flight, so you could fly griffins in DA4. DAI did not. Anthem has first-person NPC interactions. DAI did not. (I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it may be a direction DA4 wants to go in -- the Edmonton folks sure seemed to think it was an improvement.) Anthem has more verticality in environments than DAI (though MEA is pretty close to Anthem). Anthem has more weather effects. DAI had limited weather effects. Anthem is the the latest code base and more software devs in Edmonton have experience with that code base and tool set than they do with DAI -- in no small part due to some of the DAI people leaving the company and new hires, post DAI, coming on board just for Anthem, but still ... Notice that none of the above have anything to do with multiplayer or online. But, as I said, that doesn't mean DA4 won't have online or paid content features. I think it's likely it will. All I'm saying is that 1) that's not the only reason to use Anthem, and 2) they don't need to use Anthem to add online and paid content, they could do that without Anthem, so there's no direct connection.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 12, 2019 15:28:52 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now You're on. But only in part. It will be a live service for sure, so "always online" is no bet. You're right about that. But I doubt it will be MP-focused. I'll go further and say the primary focus will still be the SP campaign and it will be desirable, or at least, not have a significant penalty like in Anthem. Will it have an MP mode? Yes. In terms of engagement hours, will more of those hours on average be in MP than SP? If they do things "right", absolutely. Does that mean it's MP-focused? You'll probably insist that it is, which makes this whole bet kind of pointless, since I'll insist that it doesn't. If DA4 ends up being close to the ACO model, who wins the bet? Because I think ACO is still SP-focused, in which case, I'd say you lose the bet.
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Post by majesticjazz on Apr 12, 2019 15:55:51 GMT
I can see DA4 having Multiplayer and having Co-op, but I can't see it being MP focused. The crowd they went after for Anthem is not playing DA, and the existing DA fanbase is not going to play a DA game without a solid SP campaign. I'm trying to picture a game where you only get to talk to the other characters in a castle, and play all of the campaign missions in MP. Players would never go for it.
Exactly. Anthem was a new game trying out a new idea. Dragon Age is an established single-player RPG. There's no point using an existing franchise if you aren't going to use the name to attract back fans of that franchise. If you're going to change the game's entire genre then that's not going to work.
KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 were both SP only RPGs and yet that didnt stop SWTOR from being a MMORPG.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 12, 2019 16:06:41 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now You're on. But only in part. It will be a live service for sure, so "always online" is no bet. You're right about that. But I doubt it will be MP-focused. I'll go further and say the primary focus will still be the SP campaign and it will be desirable, or at least, not have a significant penalty like in Anthem. Will it have an MP mode? Yes. In terms of engagement hours, will more of those hours on average be in MP than SP? If they do things "right", absolutely. Does that mean it's MP-focused? You'll probably insist that it is, which makes this whole bet kind of pointless, since I'll insist that it doesn't. If DA4 ends up being close to the ACO model, who wins the bet? Because I think ACO is still SP-focused, in which case, I'd say you lose the bet. If we want to clarify, what I'm saying is there won't be different "modes" of multiplayer or singleplayer. It'll just be the game, that you can play solo or you can play multi. An instanced mission structure is likely but I'm not hanging my hat on it.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 12, 2019 16:20:51 GMT
DA4 will be an MP-focused (with solo play possible but not desirable), always online game and anyone who disagrees can go ahead and skip to the part where they admit I was right now You're on. But only in part. It will be a live service for sure, so "always online" is no bet. You're right about that. But I doubt it will be MP-focused. I'll go further and say the primary focus will still be the SP campaign and it will be desirable, or at least, not have a significant penalty like in Anthem. Will it have an MP mode? Yes. In terms of engagement hours, will more of those hours on average be in MP than SP? If they do things "right", absolutely. Does that mean it's MP-focused? You'll probably insist that it is, which makes this whole bet kind of pointless, since I'll insist that it doesn't. If DA4 ends up being close to the ACO model, who wins the bet? Because I think ACO is still SP-focused, in which case, I'd say you lose the bet. I'll take some of that action too, as long as ACO-congruent counts as SP-focused.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 12, 2019 16:26:28 GMT
If we want to clarify, what I'm saying is there won't be different "modes" of multiplayer or singleplayer. It'll just be the game, that you can play solo or you can play multi. An instanced mission structure is likely but I'm not hanging my hat on it. When and how would this matter, though? To an SP player, specifically; whether the MP guys have different missions is of no concern to me one way or another in itself.Where does the "not desirable" part come in? Edit: this question has no relevance to the bet, except maybe to make the bet less interesting.
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Sartoz
6,035
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 12, 2019 16:50:28 GMT
Star Wars BF has both a SP campaign and is MP focused. The studio has always pushed the envelope and with the FB game editor focused on the visuals. I personally don't like what I see. That is DA4 being a "live service", MP focused with skin MTXs.
Remember that the game must have a tail end revenue stream. The core game will be designed around that revenue.
BF has always been a MP focused shooter with a SP campaign tacked on. Just like Battlefield. People know what they're getting with those games, and don't expect the SP campaign to be anything stellar or groundbreaking. DA is a SP franchise that didn't even have MP in the original game. If they made it a MP focused, with a tacked on SP campaign the quality of a Battlefield or Battlefront story line, the game wouldn't sell.
Depends. Depends on Bio's intended target audience. Personally, I doubt it's the hardcore RPG fans. Add the fact the studio did add a MP component in DA:I for reasons..
These reasons are more important today. Bio needs to convince EA their online revenue stream is viable. Combat, grind, loot, skins and level progression are keys to generate said revenue. Especially true for a "live service". A single player game will have more difficulty generating this online revenue... not impossible, admittedly. Co-op combat has a better chance to keep players online than SP. I'm betting DA4 will be MP first with suitable combat mechanics. Anthem and MEAMP and possibly ME3MP provides an initial boiler plate for us to think about. Which means how many vanity items will the game have at launch and beyond.
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 12, 2019 17:28:34 GMT
OK I'll throw my hat in the ring and go with one world for SP and MP like Lenny speculates. No separate MP mode.
Longer story campaign than Anthem. Not sure about always online. I think the backlash would be too strong. So I say no.
It won't be co-op story because I doubt Bioware has the right people to pull that off in a satisfactory manner. Nor seem fans to like the idea.
My guess would be that MP is specific missions like the war table where you can team up for mindless killing and this will net you some sort of bonus in SP. Maybe if we get a full on war scenario they could go the ME3MP route and have armies or mercenary groups.
I expect the MP implementation to eat up a lot of time and money and SP will suffer for it.
Game will be open world again and feel as sterile as before.
MTX will probably be skins for your crafted armor, your mount, maybe your home base.
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