Little Bengel
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Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 12, 2019 13:54:06 GMT
You know they never had to resurrect Leliana. There was absolutely no reason why she had to be the left hand of the Divine or founder of the Inquisition. Yet starting with Leliana's Song and then through into DAA and DA2, they chose to give her a significance in the over-arching story which involved bringing her back from the dead if she had been killed in DAO. So either they did have a story planned that could be continued on into future games should DAO prove successful or they made problems for themselves that they could have avoided. This is equally true of the Inquisitor particularly where the Solas romance is involved but even without that. If they wanted to tie off the Inquisitor's story with Trespasser why have them meet with Solas at all? Why have him tell them everything about his part in past events and what he planned for the future? Why give them a very personal reason for still being involved in trying to stop him? Why give us the option of disbanding the Inquisition and then still have the organisation operate in the background? (as is evident from the comics and the epilogue to Trespasser) As players we already knew he was the Dread Wolf at the end of the main game but our PC did not, so there was no reason for them to go looking for him. We could still have had the Exalted Council, the discovery of the Qunari plot and then, for example, one of our companions forced to cut off our hand in order to save our life. Then the Council agree the Inquisition's work is done and we are sent into honourable retirement, oblivious of Solas' plan and him remaining an enigma to our PC. Those who romanced him are just left to suck it up as was the case at the end of the main game. Instead what they actually gave us was an extended trailer for the next game which absolutely connected the Inquisitor personally into the plot whether they loved him, liked him or hated him. Most players have not seen that lecture where they alleged that the aim of Trespasser was to tie off the Inquisitor's story, or visited these boards, or know about the Devs alleged "new PC each game" rule for DA, but I know from speaking with them that after Trespasser they assume that the Inquisitor will be coming back next game. So I'm with people who say that if the aim of Trespasser was to remove the DAI PC from the story, then it failed miserably. If, however, it was to explain why they only had a secondary role, may be less so. They may no longer still be Lord Inquisitor of Thedas but they are personally involved in stopping Solas. Yep, right before playing Trespasser I honestly thought it was it for Inquisitor. When I saw this promo image: ...I was like 'oho. Either they're going to die, transcend or disappear to parts unknown - probably lost in the eluvian network, maybe to pop out somewhere during future plot if they're needed'. They totally had multiple different and convenient options to weave the plot in a way to minimize Inquisitor's future involvement. But no - to my surprise they did virtually everything they could to retain the character (including removing a problematic power that may have made Quizzies either too powerful, or too plot-inconvenient in the future) and freed Inquisition from its responsibilities on the South, making it possible for them to dedicate themselves to another mission, only to taunt us with 'here we go again/gotta save the world again' scenes at the very end. So yea, given that recently published comic series and teaser suggest that we're still following the story that has been most overtly set up/announced in Trespasser, it would just be weird if they dropped an element of it they've been making clear is going to be quite important. Not saying that it can't happen - a lot could have changed over the years, regardless whether the whole reboot would have happened or not, so I've been wondering whether they'd go in that direction ever since they began teasing that they're working on new DA. But this is how things look from narrative standpoint ATM, and they're not really that subtle. Even the whole 'we're going to Tevinter' or 'the next title is likely going to have more to do with spying and covert missions than open, military campaigns' is a thing that was inferred from Trespasser's ending and seems to hold so far. It'd be more surprising if they don't stick to the Tevinter spy premise, after Trespasser and Joplin. Surprising and disappointing.
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 12, 2019 13:54:52 GMT
I see. I understand where you're coming from, but that's not a problem you'll solve from the media side, since nothing short of removing such content from all easily accessible media would work, which would be like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Furthermore, it's not a new problem. It arises again with every new type of communication technology and with every second change in cultural trends. It's just that so many different stereotypes of behaviour are visible these days through instant worldwide interconnections. For instance, I'm frequently annoyed by the way cultural trends apppear to make their way from the US to Europe regularly and in ever shorter timeframes, and never more than in the last five years, but that's a genie we won't get back into its bottle. We need to adapt, and children need to learn media competence. Very true. I'd never claim that there was a practical or productive way to remove these influences, just that identifying and being honest about them is the logical place to start for, as you say, adapting society and children's upbringings to them. And you're not the only one who's annoyed at American values creeping in everywhere. What really makes my skin crawl is when Americans actually assume that their cultural trends and impassioned tribal divides are equally present and relevant and translatable to the rest of us, though.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 12, 2019 15:29:53 GMT
I dont want Anthem with a Dragon Age skin I want a Dragon Age game. I wish bioware could get away from EA.
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Post by phoray on Apr 12, 2019 15:40:07 GMT
Yes yes, Americans suck, american values are the bottom of a cess pool, we get it. no one wants to actually be like us, understood. Please get back to gaming discussion rather than talking about your disgust about american culture leaking like sewage onto your pristine culture on a primarily american forum, please. Noxluxe
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 12, 2019 15:42:31 GMT
Oh hey! Luke and the Inquisitor ... both one arm! The coincidences are never ending. Oh I see blue milk in Inky's future :3 That would make Solas your Inquisitor's father ... eww, if you were a romanced Lavellan ...
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 12, 2019 15:47:05 GMT
Oh hey! Luke and the Inquisitor ... both one arm! The coincidences are never ending. Oh I see blue milk in Inky's future :3 That would make Solas your Inquisitor's father ... eww, if you were a romanced Lavellan ... I mean... *in a vague, non-literal sense* he is, 'cuz his actions have made Thedas the way it is now, giving him a distinctly Maker-like vibe.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 12, 2019 15:50:10 GMT
That would make Solas your Inquisitor's father ... eww, if you were a romanced Lavellan ... I mean... *in a vague, non-literal sense* he is, 'cuz that his actions have created Thedas the way it is now, giving him a distinctly Maker-like vibe. He didn’t create the other races so he isn’t really.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 12, 2019 16:00:11 GMT
I mean... *in a vague, non-literal sense* he is, 'cuz that his actions have created Thedas the way it is now, giving him a distinctly Maker-like vibe. He didn’t create the other races so he isn’t really. We don't really know the full effect of the Veil yet, but whether he had any effect on races or not, we can already tell that he's made people how they are, with their muted conscious connection to the Fade, as this is precisely what he regrets the most and wants to do something about.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 12, 2019 16:02:27 GMT
Well, yeah, it kinda does, when those other people are your customers and fans. If BW's goal was A but what they did led to a large part of the audience coming to conclusion B, they failed spectacularly in what they were trying to do and may need to re-assess their position. If they stick with A, and build on A, all the while ignoring B, then all the people in B camp are going to be alienated from the story and likely unhappy with what comes next. Unhappy = not going to buy = lost customers. Oh, I don't doubt that you're right, I'm sure there's quite a few players that would feel very, very unsatisfied if it isn't their Inquisitor who resolves the Solas story arc. I'm just more pessimistic about whether BioWare will care about that... and I wonder what they'll do in the next game to "conclusively tie off the protagonist" since what they did in Trespasser obviously didn't work so well for many. Maybe they'll kill the player character just to remove all doubt and discussion... I'll blame it on me posting at 0-dark-30 before heading to work.
The long version:
You: Bioware was annoyed by fans wanting the Warden back so decided on an absolute position to "never re-use a protag"
Me: Bioware was annoyed by fans hating on ME3's endings so added "Refuse" option
My interpretation of both events: Bioware responded in a reactionary manner to fan criticism, leading them to make decisions based on their level of butthurtness rather what makes sense for the story and/or characters. IMO, choosing Refuse makes absolutely NO sense, but I like Shepard's speech there the best because it sounds like the real Shepard, not the fake one we get in all the other endings. Anyway.....
Does DA2's story, as it is written, make sense with the Warden as the main character? No. But, that doesn't mean that NO STORY EVER would make sense for the Warden to be the PC again. For Bioware to make such a snap judgment in a fit of pique is silly. [Note: I don't care one way or the other on that since I have multiple Wardens; for me, there is no "THE" Warden.]
Similarly, depending on the story we get for DA4, it may not make sense for the Inquisitor to be the main protag. However, based on what happened in Trespasser, it DOES make sense for the Inquisitor to be a very prominent (and, again IMO, playable) character in any situation dealing with Solas. For Bioware to claim otherwise is, quite frankly, just stupid.
Thank you for clarifying I don't disagree with you at all, but I've unfortunately come to believe that BioWare has gotten better at being stupid about things. For my own Inquisitor I would prefer that his story ended with Trespasser - it rarely ends well when BioWare does anything with previous protagonists, and I'd probably be a bit miffed were my Inquisitor to return and do or say out of character things without my input. BioWare just knows how to set up those no-win situations, it seems. Just wait until they get back to Mass Effect and the Andromeda vs Milky Way debate explodes... I wonder of the main thing that hold them back is having to carry over choices from previous games. Most other narrative driven games, that I've seen, are standalone stories where actions were decided by the developer from the get go.
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 12, 2019 18:30:26 GMT
Yes yes, Americans suck, american values are the bottom of a cess pool, we get it. no one wants to actually be like us, understood. Please get back to gaming discussion rather than talking about your disgust about american culture leaking like sewage onto your pristine culture on a primarily american forum, please. Noxluxe This is relevant to gaming, actually, since some of those cultural trends appear in games, and I'm extra-critical exactly because the US are an advanced society in so many other ways, unlike certain others I could mention. Also, *you* interpreted my statement as being about "contamination". No culture is ever "pristine", and there are always influences going back and forth. That doesn't mean I have to like them all.
If you want to continue this, and me to get more specific, I suggest taking it to the "tone of the world" thread.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 12, 2019 18:36:33 GMT
I dont want Anthem with a Dragon Age skin I want a Dragon Age game. I wish bioware could get away from EA. that's good because if you read the article Schrier says we won't get a DA game like that.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 12, 2019 20:24:28 GMT
I dont want Anthem with a Dragon Age skin I want a Dragon Age game. I wish bioware could get away from EA. that's good because if you read the article Schrier says we won't get a DA game like that. Ok good. I need to read it. I havent been paying as much attention as of late. Just heard little things here and there.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 12, 2019 21:01:56 GMT
Please get back to gaming discussion Yeah I don't see how that whole sidetrack was really relevant to the discussion of DA4, but whatever...
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 12, 2019 23:51:01 GMT
Yes yes, Americans suck, american values are the bottom of a cess pool, we get it. no one wants to actually be like us, understood. Please get back to gaming discussion rather than talking about your disgust about american culture leaking like sewage onto your pristine culture on a primarily american forum, please. Noxluxe Don't be so sensitive. American culture has plenty to offer, and a lot of great values, nobody said it didn't. It just isn't huge on boundaries. Or perspective. Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize I was just a guest. I'll immediately curtail any discussion about how modern American cultural trends come across in gaming and entertainment for fear of offending my honored hosts. Bioware being a Canadian firm, this being a publicly available internet page, and people here regularly and even rather excessively espousing the value of multiculturalism confused me for a second.
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Post by phoray on Apr 12, 2019 23:56:38 GMT
But you're not encouraging multiculturalism, you're stereotyping literally all of America as having insidiously bad values. That's what you were doing. So stop trying to spin it as something else now I called you on it after your last comment, which was really the only comment that strayed from general gaming commentary straight into oh my gosh, the awful Americans.
We're all humans, we aren't that different, you just dislike some of the likely wholly exaggerated for TV degenerates and you're lumping us into the pile for no good reason.
Even if you say you've collated your impression from two decades of being online and interacting with Americans, you would still have a massively biased view of America.
It's not relevant to Bioware and it's not relevant to Dragon Age
And I only brought up that this was an American forum not because you're a guest and should be reminded as such. I wouldn't discuss my opinion of the British literally in front of British people.myself, that's just in bad taste.
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Post by Superhik on Apr 13, 2019 0:17:43 GMT
What? Cheeseburgers? That is true. At least 10% of them don't belong on Jerry Springer show.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 13, 2019 0:28:48 GMT
Prinny @talesofaprinny I doubt that they can flush Frostbite down the toilet now that it's in production. Maybe the next Anthem sequel, if there's any. (next year?)
Jason Schreier @jasonschreier I believe the response to that question was that it'd take much longer to start from scratch on Unreal for DA4 than it would to stick with what they've got
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 13, 2019 0:39:53 GMT
Well, it appears to be that SW:FO will be focusing on SP with no MP, according to a former Bioware employee that now works on the project. I do hope it means that EA gives Bioware room to focus on SP for DA4, given that their apparent mandate of every game having live service elements isn’t a strict as it appeared to be. Unless they use double standards and forces Bioware on implementing them in their games.
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Post by phoray on Apr 13, 2019 0:40:26 GMT
Sunk cost fallacy?
🤷
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Noxluxe
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 13, 2019 0:44:42 GMT
But you're not encouraging multiculturalism, you're stereotyping literally all of America as having insidiously bad values. That's what you were doing. So stop trying to spin it as something else now I called you on it after your last comment, which was really the only comment that strayed from general gaming commentary straight into oh my gosh, the awful Americans. We're all humans, we aren't that different, you just dislike some of the likely wholly exaggerated for TV degenerates and you're lumping us into the pile for no good reason. Even if you say you've collated your impression from two decades of being online and interacting with Americans, you would still have a massively biased view of America. It's not relevant to Bioware and it's not relevant to Dragon Age And I only brought up that this was an American forum not because you're a guest and should be reminded as such. I wouldn't discuss my opinion of the British literally in front of British people.myself, that's just in bad taste. What did I say to give you that impression, exactly? I don't see that I've said anything about Americans generally, just the ones who occasionally project Americanism on the rest of us, which absolutely happens both in games and out, and I can quote several instances from the last few weeks alone on this forum. I'm sure you understand the difference between pointing out some fairly relevant cultural tendencies and "stereotyping literally all Americas". Hope you don't expect every mention of your culture to be framed by glowing compliments to make it clear that all Americans aren't bad. As if anybody has the time or energy to try to talk about all Americans. That logic doesn't hold water. Again, this is a publicly available internet forum accessible from everywhere in the world, as is most other such forums. By your way of thinking, it's uncouth to discuss anything relating to people anywhere on the internet. Unless you're saying you were sitting in the car with me reading over my shoulder when I wrote the comment without me noticing. In which case you should have said something then. I get that you heard something you didn't like in how we talked about some American cultural trends and maybe felt like we were trying to apply it to you. We weren't. We were talking about when it comes to expression in games and, for my part, when it comes to expression on gaming forums.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 13, 2019 0:46:00 GMT
Yes yes, Americans suck, american values are the bottom of a cess pool, we get it. no one wants to actually be like us, understood. Please get back to gaming discussion rather than talking about your disgust about american culture leaking like sewage onto your pristine culture on a primarily american forum, please. Noxluxe Don't be so sensitive. American culture has plenty to offer, and a lot of great values, nobody said it didn't. It just isn't huge on boundaries. Or perspective. Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize I was just a guest. I'll immediately curtail any discussion about how modern American cultural trends come across in gaming and entertainment for fear of offending my honored hosts. Bioware being a Canadian firm, this being a publicly available internet page, and people here regularly and even rather excessively espousing the value of multiculturalism confused me for a second. Hey, if I tried to make a post like that, Sofa would yell at me for derailing the thread... But you be you...
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 13, 2019 0:53:34 GMT
Don't be so sensitive. American culture has plenty to offer, and a lot of great values, nobody said it didn't. It just isn't huge on boundaries. Or perspective. Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't realize I was just a guest. I'll immediately curtail any discussion about how modern American cultural trends come across in gaming and entertainment for fear of offending my honored hosts. Bioware being a Canadian firm, this being a publicly available internet page, and people here regularly and even rather excessively espousing the value of multiculturalism confused me for a second. Hey, if I tried to make a post like that, Sofa would yell at me for derailing the thread... But you be you... Fair enough.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 13, 2019 0:54:26 GMT
Well, it appears to be that SW:FO will be focusing on SP with no MP, according to a former Bioware employee that now works on the project. I do hope it means that EA gives Bioware room to focus on SP for DA4, given that their apparent mandate of every game having live service elements isn’t a strict as it appeared to be. Unless they use double standards and forces Bioware on implementing them in their games. I doubt there will be any more MP than DAI had. Unless it is BioWare who wanted to add more.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 13, 2019 1:00:48 GMT
Well, it appears to be that SW:FO will be focusing on SP with no MP, according to a former Bioware employee that now works on the project. I do hope it means that EA gives Bioware room to focus on SP for DA4, given that their apparent mandate of every game having live service elements isn’t a strict as it appeared to be. Unless they use double standards and forces Bioware on implementing them in their games. I doubt there will be any more MP than DAI had. Unless it is BioWare who wanted to add more. While Kotaku’s article didn’t say that it’ll be the case and cited different sources saying that it won’t be like this, others mentioned the possibility of DA4 being Anthem-like. I don’t see the reason for doing this with DA, expecially considering the MP of Inquisition wasn’t as well received as ME’s, and what happened to Anthem, but I’m going to remain wary until confirmation of either positions would happen. Fallen Order is howewer proof that EA is open to have games without MP, so it’s a good news. Howewer, I wouldn’t be so sure that if DA4 has a more MP/life service/GaaS focus would be because of Bioware. The article on Joplin clearly mention that Bioware weren’t really planning somethig big MP-related for it. A more presence of the latter in the new project would seem to be more of something EA would pressure Bioware to implement.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 13, 2019 1:05:32 GMT
Well, it appears to be that SW:FO will be focusing on SP with no MP, according to a former Bioware employee that now works on the project. I do hope it means that EA gives Bioware room to focus on SP for DA4, given that their apparent mandate of every game having live service elements isn’t a strict as it appeared to be. Unless they use double standards and forces Bioware on implementing them in their games. Or, you know... they just want co-op and multiplayer in their games at some capacity? They've had multiplayer/online elements in their games long before they were mandated.
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