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0
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 10, 2019 8:24:56 GMT
Development time squandered yet again and all because Bioware need Dragon Age to be a live service. What could possibly go wrong? I’d say dev time was mostly squandered because of Anthem, but the original idea of Joplin would’ve likely been ‘corrected’ by EA to fit their stance on the issue, regardless of that. I’m at a wait and see approach for DA4, since I still think they can make a good game/RPG. Expecially if EA realizes the game doesn’t have to focus (too much) on live service elements to succeed, and that a successful RPG that focus on SP while still having online elements is better then a mediocre, full-on GaaS one. The game is still in early development, and if they look at the landscape of the market, there’s soon for successful SP focused games. Expecially because they already have games that generate lots of money with life service elements.
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Post by mugwump on Apr 10, 2019 8:28:19 GMT
Yep, wait and see is clearly the way to go. Here's hoping eh?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fchopin on Apr 10, 2019 8:49:40 GMT
Nothing really new that we did not know or suspect so will have to wait a long time for the game. I hope we will still be excited for DA4 when and if it is ever made with all the good new games coming out in the near future.
I think Bioware is getting left behind by other game companies and they should get their finger out quick before it is to late for them.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 10, 2019 9:12:03 GMT
I wanted to bring up the matter people don't really seem to mind, and it's a bit puzzling to me. It was mentioned in the Anthem article and in this one too. This idea of pulling people off other projects to help on "that one project that is about to launch and we are only half way in". I don't know how every company in the world works, but my understanding of the concept is that doing this is monumentally stupid. One, you don't necessarily improve how fast that other project is going to be finished just because you took all your people from other parts of your company and tossed them in this one. Usually, that's not how it works. As far as I know, each team working on different projects have to figure their own stuff, one thing is having advice from different departments or a bit of "re organization" , but taking 90% of your staff working on other undertakings and put them to work in something else just because it's "near the deadline" is hardly a good idea. It's a waste of resources in the form of manpower and money too. It's like I'm facing a problem, I tried 10 different things and just can't figure out how to solve it. I bring 20 people to try to help me out, they'll try out those same 10 things just because they need to know I didn't make a mistake, and in the meantime they are not working on their own stuff, I'm halting someone else's job. Waste of time and resources. This idea of EA pulling people off Anthem to help them get shit done in FIFA just because is the "money maker" yells mismanagement (no shit, Sherlock). When Mass Effect needs "all hands on deck" because you wasted most of your time and resources doing god knows what, pulling 99% of Dragon Age staff to help ME doesn't sound like the right thing to do, and it happens again and again for future games. I think this must stop, as much the crunch time, this is a detriment to their work and how they get things done. Depends on how easy it is for people not familiar with the project to get up to speed.
We apply the throw-more-people-at-it approach a lot when a project is on fire and a deadline is comign up, and most of the time it's completely pointless. Takes more time to teach them how to work than to just do the work ourselves. But we can at least claim we tried improving a bad situation on paper. Helping out with other projects CAN make sense when we're talking about many weeks or months. If it's just for a couple of weeks or even days, it's stupid.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,679 Likes: 6,666
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Clearance Level Ultra
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 10, 2019 10:11:55 GMT
Depends on how easy it is for people not familiar with the project to get up to speed.
We apply the throw-more-people-at-it approach a lot when a project is on fire and a deadline is comign up, and most of the time it's completely pointless. Takes more time to teach them how to work than to just do the work ourselves. But we can at least claim we tried improving a bad situation on paper. Helping out with other projects CAN make sense when we're talking about many weeks or months. If it's just for a couple of weeks or even days, it's stupid.
Project managers are people who believe that nine women can give birth to a baby in one month...
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 10, 2019 11:43:17 GMT
Anthem with dragons
So...indirectly Anthem killed MEA AND may be killing fucking DA4?
Glorious
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 10, 2019 12:13:31 GMT
Lol, people are making waaaaaaay too many assumptions about what "Joplin" was going to be, based on very vague use of the words 'spy' and 'heist'. What even is language anymore? Apparently we're so hungry for information about DA4 we use extra-special extraction tools to squeeze every ounce of meaning from every word and sentence But when WE use words like dark, gritty and mature, they mean nothing and everything all at once! Anyway, I would have been down to be a spy stealing shit. I don't want to be leader of a powerful organisation again, that shit was dull, and everything about the ending of Trespasser suggested we'd be working primarily in the shadows with reduced resources. Someone needs to read up on the definition of "speculation". It's a quite useful word, tangentially related to but completely separate from "assumption", which is why they're two words and not one. You know, for the purposes of clear communication of ideas. Or... language. Frankly, you're the one who seems to just confuse yourself again and again. Maybe thinking about ordinary words as "utterly vague and pointless descriptors" makes it hard to keep things straight in one's own mind. Who'd have thunk? On the other hand, if one pretends that descriptors are inherently stupid and speculation and assumptions are the same thing, why, one will never run out of supposedly presumptuous and generalizing people to loudly complain about! And they'll never be able to prove one wrong because one has no coherent position on anything! Brilliant, in a way. Aside from that, this sounds fairly promising to me. It'd be nice for 4 to feature a tighter story with more room for subtlety and nuance, and spy/heist plots are that if anything is. I'm totally on board with working primarily in the shadows with reduced resources. Even if they scrapped that original concept the game proper will probably have some of the same themes since they were already thinking along those lines. Absolutely fine by me. As for the live service elements, meh, I've never mucked about with that stuff and will withhold judgment. No real frame of reference. ME3 had some multiplayer features affecting the story a little bit, and it wasn't a huge disaster? We'll see how far they dare to take it.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 10, 2019 12:15:44 GMT
Wasn't Odyssey pretty widely panned for how it overextended the in-game grind if you didn't RMT for XP boosts? If you did the normal main and side quests, the XP was pretty normal. I never felt a grind. The money and XP boosts felt like "fine, you really don't want to play this game as intended, do you? Here, you can pay for this and be done with it" as opposed to something like "Shadow of War" where the end game grind made me stop and never come back. uhm..check again, there is a very detailed video showing you exactly how if you just do the main quest you are always behind the curve...BUUUUUT if you buy that permanent xp boost you are always on point and don't need to grind
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Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kappa Neko on Apr 10, 2019 12:22:49 GMT
Anthem with dragons So...indirectly Anthem killed MEA AND may be killing fucking DA4? Glorious No, Andromeda killed Anthem and Anthem killed DA4. Chain reaction of chaos that negatively impacted everything. When Andromeda was in trouble, everyone helped out on that one. Than Anthem was on fire too and everyone left was thrown at it...
But really, EA killed Bioware. Bioware has not managed to adept to the demands of their overlords. Even if they eventually do, everything I loved about Bioware is gone now. I hope what's left of the talent at Bioware quits too and starts making good games under a different banner again. The devs and players alike deserve better than what EA is offering.
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therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 10, 2019 12:33:49 GMT
If you did the normal main and side quests, the XP was pretty normal. I never felt a grind. The money and XP boosts felt like "fine, you really don't want to play this game as intended, do you? Here, you can pay for this and be done with it" as opposed to something like "Shadow of War" where the end game grind made me stop and never come back. uhm..check again, there is a very detailed video showing you exactly how if you just do the main quest you are always behind the curve...BUUUUUT if you buy that permanent xp boost you are always on point and don't need to grind I'm sorry, but your response was not addressing the reality of samhain's post. Because as someone who gladly put 154 hours, before the DLC, into AC:O. I can safely say you did not need a single booster of any sort to have a fun experience, provided your not trying to rush through the game by only doing the Main Missions.
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Post by wickedcool on Apr 10, 2019 12:58:08 GMT
Do any of you work for a big corporation. This stuff happens all the time and clearly fifa or whatever is more important. They are in the business of making money . From apple to the Boeing 737 people drop what they are doing to fix things and then go back to their jobs If you want BioWare to close shop then why are you here? Seriously stop with the sky is falling crap Based on tweets from the last 2 years I haven’t gotten the impression that the ship is sinking. We recently had dragon age day and we have a e3 trailer. We started hearing again from the voice of solas(that means he’s under contract)
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ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 10, 2019 13:21:45 GMT
Aside from that, this sounds fairly promising to me. It'd be nice for 4 to feature a tighter story with more room for subtlety and nuance, and spy/heist plots are that if anything is. I'm totally on board with working primarily in the shadows with reduced resources. If they stick to that concept. Which I hope. At this point, I'm not so much concerned about Bioware being able to make a good game than EA's "games as service" obsession throwing a wrench into the works.
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papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 10, 2019 14:13:26 GMT
First I want to brag, CALLED IT! I guessed that the PC would be an operative of the Shadow Inquisition, spying on the war between Tevinter and the Qunari. Of course, that was for Joplin, now canceled, so I guess my brag needs an asterisk. Who knows what the PC will be in Morrison. And put me in the Joplin as described sounded kinda bad camp. Too much like Detroit:Betray Humans /s, which I found to be pretty un-replayable. In terms of full replay, anyway. Some sections I reloaded a dozen times from save to explore all the choices in situ, instead of starting a whole new tedious run just to see what happens if you do/don’t shoot the guards. I don't mind a story around spies, but that sort of game is hard to make multiplayer xD Aha, but remember that the new gameplay mechanic was about "heists", so if GTA can go multiplayer, why not Joplin?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 10, 2019 14:19:29 GMT
I don't mind a heist game, but how would that work on Frostbite? And how would it fit with the genre. Maybe as a Gaiden game, but not as a main installment. Not sure what Frostbite has to do with anything, since the features mentioned are more about non-combat alternatives to resolving missions, like bribing or blackmailing guards instead of killing them. As for genre, both Elder Scrolls and Fallout support these kinds of non-combat alternatives already, with speech and luck checks. To river82's point, the real problem is that non-combat alternatives aren't proven for live service, online multiplayer games. If that's how DA4 is going to maintain engagement past the SP campaign, there's going to have to be something with at least as big a hook as PvE combat.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 10, 2019 14:22:15 GMT
This idea of pulling people off other projects to help on "that one project that is about to launch and we are only half way in". I don't know how every company in the world works, but my understanding of the concept is that doing this is monumentally stupid. FWIW, this is absolutely standard practice in software companies. The rationale is that if the failure of Product A could cause a layoff or other funding cut from Products B, C and D that would put them at risk anyway, there's no downside to pulling all the people off of B, C, and D to save A. This is one reason why such moves are called "bet the company" actions. Now, a company that routinely does this sort of thing: A, then B, then C, then D, in succession, each having to be "bet the company" at some stage in their development, would indicate that there's something seriously wrong. And, of course, the mythical man month is still a thing, to your point. There are things that do benefit from brute force volume of labor, like testing or making the seventeen 3D cheese wheels required by the creative director -- 17 artists each making one can go faster than 1 artist making 17 -- but for the actual code, yeah, it's as likely to make things go slower as faster.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 10, 2019 14:46:32 GMT
The DA series kinda lost me after Origins, so my anticipation for DA4 was never super high to begin with. Now with it going the GaaS route and all the problems the studio has been having with their last couple titles my expectations are pretty much rock bottom for DA4. I suppose the silver lining is the only real surprise would be if the game actually turns out good.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 10, 2019 14:55:05 GMT
uhm..check again, there is a very detailed video showing you exactly how if you just do the main quest you are always behind the curve...BUUUUUT if you buy that permanent xp boost you are always on point and don't need to grind I'm sorry, but your response was not addressing the reality of samhain's post. Because as someone who gladly put 154 hours, before the DLC, into AC:O. I can safely say you did not need a single booster of any sort to have a fun experience, provided your not trying to rush through the game by only doing the Main Missions. the reality is that that model invalidates the play style of those who like to do the main quest first and the story after. There are MANY like that. And this model simply is made to make sure that that feel compelled to buy the boost. And you know what else? They defended it as "player choice" no, it is not. Player choice would be adding a toggle, like difficulty, labelled as "fast xp progression" and letting the player make the choice. SELLING you that "option" is not an option at all for people who want to enjoy just the main story or the main story first without the side work...it's nickle and diming. It is akin to make you pay for other difficulty levels or, day, first person mode or any other REAL option. And the fact that was PRECISELY, MATHEMATICALLY engineered to ALWAYS keep you behind the curve speaks volumes
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 10, 2019 14:55:50 GMT
Lol, people are making waaaaaaay too many assumptions about what "Joplin" was going to be, based on very vague use of the words 'spy' and 'heist'. What even is language anymore? But when WE use words like dark, gritty and mature, they mean nothing and everything all at once! Anyway, I would have been down to be a spy stealing shit. I don't want to be leader of a powerful organisation again, that shit was dull, and everything about the ending of Trespasser suggested we'd be working primarily in the shadows with reduced resources. Someone needs to read up on the definition of "speculation". It's a quite useful word, tangentially related to but completely separate from "assumption", which is why they're two words and not one. You know, for the purposes of clear communication of ideas. Or... language. Frankly, you're the one who seems to just confuse yourself again and again. Maybe thinking about ordinary words as "utterly vague and pointless descriptors" makes it hard to keep things straight in one's own mind. Who'd have thunk? On the other hand, if one pretends that descriptors are inherently stupid and speculation and assumptions are the same thing, why, one will never run out of supposedly presumptuous and generalizing people to loudly complain about! And they'll never be able to prove one wrong because one has no coherent position on anything! Brilliant, in a way. My position is entirely coherent, if only you had ever bothered to read anything I actually said about it, instead of concocting an argument in your head so that you have something to refute. You know what's incoherent? Taking a bunch of subjective words (darkness, grit, maturity, realistic, etc), and lumping them all together to mean the same subjective thing ("good"), in order to construct an entirely circular argument. (I like this because it is dark, gritty, mature and realisitic. It is dark, gritty, mature and realistic because I like it). And when people are pressed to actually EXPLAIN how these qualities might manifest themselves visually in, say, a video game, it's usually just that they want to see oppression or, in second place, brothels. People on here sure do get their dicks in a twist about brothels. But they don't want to actually deal with the "dark, gritty, mature, realistic" consequences of oppression and brothels do they? They don't want to see innocent people hurt or suffering as a result of choosing to be oppressive. They don't want to patronise a brothel where the workers are beaten, or kidnapped children, or even just ugly. They want a fantasy where everyone they kill was SOMEHOW bad (but even if they weren't, it's all fine because it was in service of saving the world and being a hero), and brothels are only staffed by healthy, attractive adults who are happy to be there and think you are so good at doing the sex, you ol' Sexmeister you. That fantasy, grotesque and puerile as it is, wouldn't bother me so much (I do play the games, after all), if not for people asserting that it is "realistic and mature", and thus somehow "good", while a game that strokes their fragile egos only sliiiiiightly less is "unrealistic and immature", and thus somehow "bad". And I would be even less bothered if those same people weren't also constantly spouting claptrap about how the content of Oppression & Brothel Game reflects some time period of history that in fact only exists in a Hollywood fever dream. But this thread is NOT ABOUT ANY OF THIS, so why don't you follow your own advice for a change and go help a family member or buy a hat or SOMETHING that doesn't involve talking to me, thanks.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 10, 2019 15:30:42 GMT
If you did the normal main and side quests, the XP was pretty normal. I never felt a grind. The money and XP boosts felt like "fine, you really don't want to play this game as intended, do you? Here, you can pay for this and be done with it" as opposed to something like "Shadow of War" where the end game grind made me stop and never come back. uhm..check again, there is a very detailed video showing you exactly how if you just do the main quest you are always behind the curve...BUUUUUT if you buy that permanent xp boost you are always on point and don't need to grind Uhm...I played the game...I don't need a video "telling" me what I experienced. It likely feels grindy for speedrunners and those who didn't explore at all...
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 10, 2019 15:45:01 GMT
uhm..check again, there is a very detailed video showing you exactly how if you just do the main quest you are always behind the curve...BUUUUUT if you buy that permanent xp boost you are always on point and don't need to grind Uhm...I played the game...I don't need a video "telling" me what I experienced. It likely feels grindy for speedrunners and those who didn't explore at all... the video will show you the game was engineered to make sure you CANNOT complete only the main quest without either do side work (not everyone's cup of tea...either because ph how they like to play or the order they prefer to compete their game in) or buy the xp boost
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 10, 2019 16:03:10 GMT
Uhm...I played the game...I don't need a video "telling" me what I experienced. It likely feels grindy for speedrunners and those who didn't explore at all... the video will show you the game was engineered to make sure you CANNOT complete only the main quest without either do side work (not everyone's cup of tea...either because ph how they like to play or the order they prefer to compete their game in) or buy the xp boost Whatever...You get XP in the game just walking into places. You have to not want to play the game, like literally focus on trying to avoid ways of engaging the world, to not level up adequately. So there's a video that says stuff...great. I experienced it
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Solas
N5
blep mlem mlem
ratlobster banger
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 3,912
Prime Likes: 9733
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Post by Solas on Apr 10, 2019 16:15:31 GMT
I'm so friggen tiiired of the Inquisitor for PC yes/no debates like gaw
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You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Apr 10, 2019 16:27:57 GMT
In all fairness, we need to wait until Bioware shows us something on DA4 before we judge either way or another. The game is still 2-3 years away and could change for the better or worse based on how Anthem was received. Honestly, with the lackluster performance of BioWare's devs on Andromeda and Anthem, I'm going to treat this as truth until proven false.
I don't have any faith in BioWare's development teams.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Apr 10, 2019 16:32:32 GMT
I'm so friggen tiiired of the Inquisitor for PC yes/no debates like gaw When a proven, definite answer somehow doesn't end the debate.....4 years on
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The Loyal Nub
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All Wolfed Up With Dread
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Apr 10, 2019 16:35:18 GMT
I am going to set the bar real, real, real, fucking low for DA4 and that way if it turns out to be something north of shit I'll be pleasantly surprised with it and maybe even pleased. But I am not going to allow sentiment for some great old BioWare games to fool me into high expectations. Being built on the Anthem code-base fills me with dread.
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