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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 2, 2017 19:36:05 GMT
I read this with two pairs of eyes. The one pair of eyes read that you were the one who didn't mind carrying me for a very long time, and with luck, received all my hakkons through dragon drops. Now those days are still there for some players (rng willing). The other pair of eyes read that you do mind. Just like you took me on as your padawan, I am still one. Just like you were the master, you still are. Spread the goodwill. That is what makes the community I never really carried you. When I met you, you had already played a lot and got a spot on the Leaderboards. I am pretty sure you were Top 40 or 30 when I met you. The people whom I am referring to as unable to play with us are those that don't even dream of getting a Hakkon, they might not even know there are such weapons. They may not even have a banner. They will get the game, play it for 50, 100, maybe 200 hours and then give up.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 2, 2017 19:49:02 GMT
You are highlighting two things. Outscoring and co-op. Score in co-op game is trivial thing and it doesn't mean nothing. Example: I played TSent the other day in ME3MP with Paladin in team and what i did? I followed him and detonated his snap freeze with my overload and got assists gold medal mid wave 3. In the end i finished last with only 50k, Does this makes me bad player? To explain to people who didn't played ME3MP... I could just leave him to die every wave, do my thing and be the first on the scoreboard. DAIMP is the same; I will follow Necro with my AW and shatter frozen mooks with Stonefist, or I will follow Reaver with my Zither and give her buffs. Now lets speak tactics... It is pretty much the same in both games since they have same mechanics, they are just executed differently (one is shooter other is dungeon crawler). Every player covers part of the map and prevent enemies to flank other players. Best strategy in both games, with exception on objective waves/zones And in the end newbies... There are lots of people in ME3MP who play difficulty they aren't ready yet, same as in DAIMP. I think this is explained by it self... Oh, I forgot stats difference... When I met Frank, I had around 100 stats, while he had 10x more than me (Willpower at least). Did I died a lot? NO Did I contributed? YES I never leeched. My lvl 1 agents weren't strong enough to survive NM, so I leveled up them on Peril games and then I joined Frank and his team. If I wasn't good enough he wouldn't sent me FR when he met me after all... Same goes with Witty. We took her to HB and she did excellent job. ME3MP has a very poor scoring system. Far worse than DAMP. Nevertheless, if you wanted to, you could just get an AIU Reegar or something of that sort and outscore a played who has invested 10x more hours in the game than you have. In DAMP that is unthinkable. Unless the '10x more hours invested player' is not serious, he will outscore you. It is beyond your control, beyond your skills, beyond your build and beyond your playstyle. As for taking a player who has even less time invested in a Heartbreaker game, it works when the team is already great and capable in spit of that players' presence. I have done that several times. That player will inevitably play a limited role, not to say virtually necessary in some cases. Will he/she contribute? He/she might, but very limitedly so. It won't be an equal contribution, let alone have the possibility of shining due to one's individual skill. There is no room for such a thing when there is this promotion system in place
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Post by LittleBigFrank on Feb 2, 2017 21:12:55 GMT
You have played the game for a long time, is it really so bad? I do not think so. You stopped because it was boring you some day, it goes to anyone at any game like that. The perfect game for me is skyrim, I love it, anyway it was ending. And finally, every game (except for skyrim: D) has some errors
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Post by SassaMFG on Feb 2, 2017 22:09:32 GMT
Nevertheless, if you wanted to, you could just get an AIU Reegar or something of that sort and outscore a played who has invested 10x more hours in the game than you have.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 3, 2017 0:48:13 GMT
You have played the game for a long time, is it really so bad? I do not think so. You stopped because it was boring you some day, it goes to anyone at any game like that. The perfect game for me is skyrim, I love it, anyway it was ending. And finally, every game (except for skyrim: D) has some errors I being one out of the few hundreds who enjoyed it (out of 4 million who bought it) does make the game a success. Besides, I only played it intensively from release to October 2015, about 11 months, and I mostly did so because I have had good friends to play with, as I still do play every now and then because of them. The game is good in many aspects, in my view especially the way it emphasized and rewarded teamwork. Yet, there is lots of room for serious improvement. The progression system and the netcoding/matchmaking are in my view the most critical flaws. I hope Bioware learned from their mistakes and deliver us a better and more enduring Multiplayer game next time.
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Post by LittleBigFrank on Feb 3, 2017 6:30:02 GMT
and many Players like this. Sure, it can be better. It's bad that rogues now have no effect. Ist easy to Play like the old days with lower weapon and lower armour. So i dont understand your critik well. I cAn Play a warrior with basicarmour and lower weapon and i die very fast on perilous. i search a Team with newbies or friends with the same equipment and i have fun like the old days. It's very simple, you just Need to try this.
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Post by 3y3vr3 on Feb 3, 2017 15:28:09 GMT
The problem with promotion system is people who are not into unlimited status grinding get bored fast because of its consequences(unbalanced difficulties, less necessary co-op, irrelevance of builds) and move on. Players who like non-stop power growth are actually the smaller portion of the general player IMO.
Sure people leave to play other new games. But there are also influxes of new players every time DAI goes on sale. Despite of a seemingly large number of newbies showing up in public lobbies, how many of them actually play long enough until they are competent in NM/HB? Not sure about PS4 or Xbox1, on PC US region the regular player pool in NM/HB doesn't seem to change a lot since...one year and a half ago when I started playing.(Some people did left though) It's still pretty much the same group of veteran players(now with higher promotions) mixed with random newbie pugs. As far as I can count the new IDs joining the ranks of higher difficulties are probably less than 20...If most general players like the promotion system enough to keep grinding, why the new blood in NM/HB is such a disproportionately small number compared to how many newbies have surfaced since the introduction of NM/HB? Sure new players need to take some time to learn the ropes before they jump into the hardest difficulties, but even after they get a good understanding of the combat mechanics, practice their skills, learn to teamwork, they still need hundreds of hours of grinding for status just so that they can be capable in NM/HB. It's also impossible for them to catch up with the strongest ones, because eventually the amount of time spent in the game will override all the other factors. People who play the longest will be the strongest regardless of skills, this can be frustrating to many who don't have so much free time to invest into grinding.
For me the main fun-killer is after reaching certain status, the importance of co-op is significantly dampened:
1) In a highly promoted group tank and support roles are no longer necessary as everyone is tanky enough to handle aggro on their own. Mobs die too fast there won't be a lot left to tank...Barrier serves no purpose other than generating some extra exp...Be it a lego or keeper or whatever, no one falls out of the role of a dps.
2) A lot less combo because things die too fast.
3) Crowd control abilities can be great fun and very useful tactically. When things die too fast, there is hardly a crowd to control...
My favorite moments from this game was back in the days when my friends and I were using all these co-op moves to win a NM game as lowly-promoted noobs. Having a specific role in a team, timely combo, well-placed CC and tinkering team composition to get the maximum synergy between characters, these are the fun for me in DAIMP. Promotions are a welcomed by-product while playing. We wiped more than won then. But when we did win, it was with great satisfaction which no superior status can replace. I did farm promotions for a while(all these double xp weekends...) till I reached about 140/140/140 and I liked the growth in power. It let me win more NM games than losing. It was after I maxed out defense that I started feeling "the wall". By then NM was no longer challenging playing with my regular group of friends, and the higher our status grew, the less room there was for such collaborations I mentioned above. It couldn't be helped unless we intentionally held back by not killing things...They were still good games I enjoyed, but winning has become so easy even with less co-op that I barely got a sense of satisfaction out of it, just a few more levels or another promotion point. Now all my status are above 200 I have almost none motivation to play NM, well except for those crazy experimental games with special rules...or leveling up my characters for HB.
Of course I can use low level gears to prevent being overpowered and I've already done that. But why do I have to choose inferior weapons over better ones in the first place? Isn't uncapped status exactly the reason that I have to use bad weapons if I want to mingle in with players in easier difficulties? Who likes inquisition weapons after all?
I like the game a lot in terms of teamwork and tactics. Grinding for status didn't bother me as much in the beginning but when it starts to kill the necessity of co-op and sense of challenge even in the hardest difficulty, my interest in continue playing greatly wanes. Intentionally using bad weapons to keep myself challenged doesn't sound right at all. We all love the game enough to be able to endure the ultimate grinding. But I sincerely think we are the minorities here. After all we can only see the ones who are still playing(which is a rather small and stagnant group), people who are discouraged by the flaws of endless promotion system simply left. There should be a sense of progression and motivation to keep people playing. I just don't think infinite status growth is something of "longer/stronger replay value" that can attract a larger, more dynamic player base.
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Post by HunterKipling on Feb 3, 2017 16:01:58 GMT
How often do any of us here go Puggin? I think the public/private lobby setup was good. There are a few who do not have the time to grind, but when I join them on a random game, they're with pugs. Some pugs become friends eventually and the natural course of getting familiar with someone is accommodated. The promotion system is unique. I agree that once you hit that proverbial wall and no longer wish to promote, there's the tendency to just fade away. Again, a natural course, but it doesn't have to end there. After this game has gone through its cycle for most of us, there should be another to take its place. The community, in large, will branch of to other games. It just seems to take so long.
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Post by SassaMFG on Feb 3, 2017 16:21:23 GMT
There are many new names on top 100 LB actually, look again Ivy. I was newbie who started playing after introduction of NM/HB. I played only weekend challenges from july till december, then i met some people and i wanted do be like them. And I am... Actually, some of them aren't on LB anymore. Also, I wanted to finish all challenges and promotions came naturally. I actually started ME3MP after DAIMP, but when I maxed my manifest I play it only with friends, like I play this game now. I don't care about LB position, but I must admit, it's nice to see your name there
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Post by Silversmurf on Feb 3, 2017 16:39:05 GMT
No child left behind syndrome.
New players can work hard at the lower levels and progress like I did, or they can quit.
You get out what you put in.
I just had some amazing games with 3 veterans. 2 FC NM to promote. Great teamwork. Some of the best I have seen really.
No teamwork at high levels is a false belief. Players will work together (or not) depending on the attitude of the "player"
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Post by SassaMFG on Feb 3, 2017 16:40:46 GMT
No child left behind syndrome. New players can work hard at the lower levels and progress like I did, or they can quit. You get out what you put in. I just had some amazing games with 3 veterans. 2 FC NM to promote. Great teamwork. Some of the best I have seen really. No teamwork at high levels is a false belief. Players will work together (or not) depending on the attitude of the "player" QFT
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Post by katsumoto77 on Feb 3, 2017 16:42:11 GMT
I'm all for promoting to add to stats. If there was a fairly quick obtainable cap, I would lose interest possibly even before reaching said cap.
I would have loved to customize my armor, even if it were just playing around with colors and simple optional add-ons. Drakescale and the achievements needed to obtain it were nice to give newcomers a jumpstart on being able to play outside of routine and threatening, but obviously gets boring when you zone in looking at what seems to be 4 of the same person.
I would also love for there to be so much more crafting in order to make top tier weapons and armor, and even just play around with attributes by modifying items.
All in all, I have spent the entirety of last year playing an hour or two per day on multiplayer and love this game, accepting that there are glitches and such, but in my opinion it plays beautifully especially when the host has a solid internet connection (which I for one have been lucky enough to have.)
Kudos to Luke especially for making what sounds like a solo attempt to further the game's progression. Even without voices the additional characters are tons of fun.
Any rumors going around about plans for the next dragon age? I will be giving Mass Effect Andromeda a go, but I don't know if I should be trusted with guns! Theres no replacement in my mind for a beautiful big ol' 2 handed Axe or Sword!
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Post by Silversmurf on Feb 3, 2017 16:44:54 GMT
No child left behind syndrome. New players can work hard at the lower levels and progress like I did, or they can quit. You get out what you put in. I just had some amazing games with 3 veterans. 2 FC NM to promote. Great teamwork. Some of the best I have seen really. No teamwork at high levels is a false belief. Players will work together (or not) depending on the attitude of the "player" QFT I hope it's former and not the latter... 😀 www.netlingo.com/word/qft.php
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Post by SassaMFG on Feb 3, 2017 16:47:37 GMT
You read my previous posts, you shouldn't asking that question.
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Post by LittleBigFrank on Feb 3, 2017 17:04:28 GMT
Back to the "Good Old Days" Ok, i search only public games and the second Team was strong for perilous, but you see, i make between 20 and 40 damage against some Mobs
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Post by 3y3vr3 on Feb 3, 2017 17:10:50 GMT
There are many new names on top 100 LB actualy, look again Ivy. I was newbie who started playing after intriduction of NM/HB. I played only weekend challenges from july till december, then i met some people and i wanted do be like them. And I am... Actualy, some of them aren't on LB anymore. Also, I wanted to finish all challenges and promotions came naturaly. I actualy started ME3MP after DAIMP, but when I maxed my manifest I play it only with friends, like I play this game. I don't care about LB position, but I must admit, it's nice to see yor name there Partly because many of the old leaderboarders stopped playing? Those new names are already veteran players we've known for a while in NM/HB who have very high status long before they move onto leaderboard. I don't play ME3MP. But as far as I've seen from ME3MP section there are more active players there than DAMP even after 5 years. Since you mentioned challenges...I still have a lot of agent challenges undone but I can't pull myself together to finish them as the reason I stated in my previous post. The challenges themselves are another big grind...They don't help much in terms of making playing the game itself more fun. Ham/spoon have helped me getting through some of it. If there were a broom for mages at least I would have enough motivation to finish my mages challenges...
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Post by SassaMFG on Feb 3, 2017 17:15:20 GMT
I don't play ME3MP. But as far as I've seen from ME3MP section there are more active players there than DAMP even after 5 years. It's a shooter game. Of course there is more active players... I still play first Call of Duty when i feel the need and servers are quite full after 15 years... And to be honest, Mass Effect is better than Dragon Age...
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Post by 3y3vr3 on Feb 3, 2017 17:47:06 GMT
Some things I would like to see: 2) More tactically interesting maps. Ferelden Castle offers multiple paths to cross, enemies at different elevations, choice of final boss, etc., but is the only map to really do anything like this, and doesn't do that much of it. 3) No Heal on Kill, or at least more alternatives to it, ideally including dedicated healers among the chars/classes. Making HOK almost the only source of healing is a simplistic and tactically boring way to handle healing, tends to penalize supporters and tanks, who get fewer kills, and potentially puts players in the position of competing for kills, which is something you want to avoid in what is supposed to be a cooperative game. Removing HOK is an interesting idea...Maybe rogues could still keep HOK and tank/support could get other sources of healing from tanking and supporting abilities? Though it'll eventually depend on whether healing spells/healer will return in DA4. In general I want to see more interactive objects in the map which can impact the battle. There are destroyable wooden barrels now but that don't do much...Different objects that can be used tactically in battle by different classes would be interesting. Like a warrior could kick down a wall to block the way of enemies or do some crushing damage to them. A rogue could active a trap door to cage the mobs for mass murder...or mages could detonate a barrel of explosives using fire spells...Make it so in easier difficulties only allies could use them, but in higher difficulties enemies could use them too...and even allies could use them to hurt their teammates...
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Post by Silversmurf on Feb 4, 2017 5:27:39 GMT
You read my previous posts, you shouldn't asking that question. Of course. I couldnt resist the chance at such a good joke though.
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Post by Silversmurf on Feb 4, 2017 5:29:57 GMT
No child left behind syndrome. New players can work hard at the lower levels and progress like I did, or they can quit. You get out what you put in. I just had some amazing games with 3 veterans. 2 FC NM to promote. Great teamwork. Some of the best I have seen really. No teamwork at high levels is a false belief. Players will work together (or not) depending on the attitude of the "player" QFT 25 promotes in 21 hours with teamwork.....Im off for some well earned sleep now.... nn
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Post by Hellkite on Feb 4, 2017 8:28:51 GMT
For the next DAMP, I'd really like to see a Dread Wolf faction.
Warriors, shadows, spirits and mages width unique magics that involve spirit and primal spells.
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Post by rogueknight333 on Feb 4, 2017 12:09:01 GMT
Removing HOK is an interesting idea...Maybe rogues could still keep HOK and tank/support could get other sources of healing from tanking and supporting abilities? Though it'll eventually depend on whether healing spells/healer will return in DA4... In general, I think HOK is a dubious mechanic in a cooperative MP game, for the reasons given in my original post. I would not necessarily be opposed to it being employed in any context, naturally, and if it were just confined to a couple of classes where it was thematically appropriate (e.g., Reaver and Necromancer) it would be another matter. Obviously healing in some form is necessary so doing away with it would require implementing alternatives, and, as you indicate, what alternatives are practical would depend on how the overall game system works (something we obviously do not know much about in regards to a hypothetical DA4). HOK became a major part of DAI because that game's system did not really provide a lot of alternatives in the way of healing spells or classes. Despite that there actually is a healer in DAMP: Zither! using Sing-along. It is simply that HOK makes that ability redundant outside of unusual situations.
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hunterk
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
HunterKipling
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Post by HunterKipling on Feb 4, 2017 17:15:32 GMT
For the next DAMP, I'd really like to see a Dread Wolf faction. Warriors, shadows, spirits and mages width unique magics that involve spirit and primal spells. Sounds almost like Druffy Faction Zone 4
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lintanis
N1
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
PSN: Lintanis
Posts: 17 Likes: 68
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lintanis
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Dec 31, 2016 23:15:17 GMT
December 2016
lintanis
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Lintanis
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Post by lintanis on Feb 4, 2017 17:26:07 GMT
I just hope that Dragons 'n' Donuts comes back for the next game was good watching and finding out the ones who produced the MP side of the game was just as bad at playing it. , apart from St Luke of course
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HunterKipling
N3
It's Raining Leggos!!!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: HunterKipling
Posts: 804 Likes: 1,684
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HunterKipling
It's Raining Leggos!!!
804
August 2016
hunterk
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
HunterKipling
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Post by HunterKipling on Feb 4, 2017 20:22:57 GMT
I just hope that Dragons 'n' Donuts comes back for the next game was good watching and finding out the ones who produced the MP side of the game was just as bad at playing it. , apart from St Luke of course Nice save
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