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Post by The Elder King on Mar 20, 2017 15:56:54 GMT
Okay. Firstly, this isn't a timing issue of when the game was released, it's a suckage issue. Sure, maybe if the game had released later in the year when nothing else was being released, it might have favored better in the reviews. Still would'a sucked just as much, just that we wouldn't have anything else to play at the time. Secondly, bullshit they were all one dimensional characters. We knew where Tali was going after the fight with Saren. We knew what Wrex wanted on Virmire. We knew what Garrus wanted, and more importantly, why he wanted it. Here, they create things and then knock them down (straw men they are called) and then proclaim that they're gods for knocking them down. It's like they're just meeting their squad mates for the first time. Screw whether or not we work well together or we want to kill one another, let's send them off to another galaxy! It's ridiculous. It'd have been better because some of technical problems wouldn't have been in. The scores would've been a bit higher as well. I can agree on Wrex (he was my favorite squadmate since he first) but Tali in ME was essentially a walking codex about quarians. I liked her better from the second. Kaidan and Ashley were...okayish. Even Garrus got better development in the second. That's not a comparison with MEA's squad, but an opinion on the ME's. Which wasn't the stellar cast and writing people believe. At least in my opinion. Also, on meeting squadmates on the first time...ME actually did it, with the Normandy's crew and Kaidan. It was recently assembled and they didn't know each other.
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Post by nolerhn on Mar 20, 2017 16:22:18 GMT
I respect this community so very much. Many of you see this game as something more than 1's and 0's I wanted to answer any questions or get yelled at by those who deserve a great game. You. I enjoyed your video review. Its obvious you took the time to collect your thoughts about the game and did not push out a hot take.
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Post by Ianamus on Mar 20, 2017 16:30:07 GMT
I'm also interested in what your issues with the ending were (without spoilers, preferably).
Was it a case of the ending breaking the lore or not fitting the tone of the game, or was it just poorly written or anti climactic?
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 20, 2017 16:35:32 GMT
Considering that Guardians of the Galaxy is a fucking awesome movie so to me that makes ME:A sound like an even better game because I'm so fucking sick and tied of ultra serious grimdark shit. It's a matter of taste I suppose.
GotG strikes me as something teenagers may like for the most part, it's simply childish. I prefer The Expanse.
Depends on what you're looking for. If you want a complicated character/political drama in space, The Expanse is clearly what you want. If what you want is a more of a funny romp across colorful locations with colorful characters in an adventure that doesn't take itself very seriously, Guardians is a pretty good choice. I watch both depending on my mood.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 20, 2017 16:54:50 GMT
Considering that Guardians of the Galaxy is a fucking awesome movie so to me that makes ME:A sound like an even better game because I'm so fucking sick and tied of ultra serious grimdark shit. It's a matter of taste I suppose.
GotG strikes me as something teenagers may like for the most part, it's simply childish. I prefer The Expanse.
Well some people enjoy comedy that does not make them childish. Also we can enjoy a simple comedy and a deep reflexive artwork. Those are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 20, 2017 17:02:01 GMT
I've been worried that a ME sequel might have that tone since the Citadel DLC released. Bioware has a very long history of overreacting to fan feedback, both positive and negative, and at the time many fans were gushing about the Citadel DLC being the greatest Bioware DLC of all time. As much as I also liked the DLC, I thought all the humor and cutesy quips were dialed up a couple notches too high, and didn't think it could work as the tone for an entire ME game. I wonder how much impact that DLC and it's reception had on ME:A's tone. It was made with the express purpose, of giving the fans a chance to emotionally say goodbye, because the main game denied us that. It was hammy, and ridiculous, and cliche, and drowning in cringe and fan service. It was a weird situation where it's basically breaking the 4th wall in a lot of ways, but at that point, fans didn't care, because they were too emotional about everything and wanted to just enjoy this One Last Ride. The problem arises here, because Bioware obviously believes we loved it because of all the cringe and cliche and ham, and we did in part, but not because we like those things. In any other situation, that DLC would have been nuked from orbit for being horribly written. Citadel was a style of DLC that could've only come out right when it did, really imo. Fans felt they needed something, anything, to get that emotional closure that many people felt was not given to them. Obviously, despite Bioware making it for the right reasons, has failed entirely to understand why it was so popular, and why we gave a pass to all that horrible, horrible cheese.
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Post by Detcelfer on Mar 20, 2017 17:30:56 GMT
The review was honest and well done. However I find something unfair in that review. You are comparing character developed over a trilogy to some who have been just introduced. However if I look back on ME1 the iconic characters were...well one dimensional. -Joker was the joking pilot, with cheesy humor, only lightning the mood. It is only after ME2 and especially ME3 that we discover more about the character, why does he joke all the time and how much he cares about shepard. -Liara was...nice...that's it. In ME1 she is just the cute scientist and had nothing more on her sleeves. It is only after ME2 shadow broker that she was confronted with reality and have to balance her ideal and pragmatic side. -Tali was Liara bis. She was aimless and frankly I did not know what she was doing on the ship. It is only during ME2 she had a goal, people to defend and moral conflict -Garrus was just the bad cop. I love that character but it is a walking cliche in ME1. We all remember fondly the balltrap moment in ME3, but it took 3 game to go from the "cool bad cop" to an actual companion in the strict sense of the term -Wrex is just an intelligent brute. However seing how it evolved in ME2 and ME3 was a pleasure. It is when he is morally conflicted on Virmire, changed by the role of clan leader in ME2 and paragon of what his race could become that made him a compelling characters. -Mordin"s "I made a mistake" was so compelling because it made us think on the character evolution since ME2. And I could go on. Those characters became more and more compelling with time. And it is not a mystery if the least popular characters in the saga are the characters that only appeared on one episode and the most popular were those with an important role over several episodes with a blur line in the middle. So that is what I found unfair, you compare introduced characters to fully developed over several games characters. If I compare ME:A to the trilogy, yes the character are less compeling. If I compare ME:A to ME1 then it is different. ME1 had only stereotypical character : the nice blue girl, the nice masked girl, the brute, the bad cop, the soldier and the tortured soldier and I love all those characters (except you ashley) but not in ME1, I learn to love them over 2 or 3 games because it gives the one thing games have and other media lack : time. I'm gonna have to stand against you on this one. First of all, and probably the most important of all, Mass Effect came out nearly 10 years ago. I am sure if the story of Mass Effect Andromeda had first been told in November of 2007 it would have been well received as one of the better stories in games. Second, I'd argue that your criticisms of the characters of ME1 (except for maybe Tali and Kaidan) are very reductive, particularly in the case of Wrex. I would urge you to go back and replay that game (yes I know it is a bit janky by modern standards and even the standards of its day) and go through some of Wrex's conversations. He's a fairly interesting character even in that first game and I feel some aspects of that writing are taken for granted. Lastly, a point which I feel is most important, this game is a part of the Mass Effect series. Just by having that title and all of those shared elements with the OT, it will automatically invite comparison, whether warranted or not. This should have been clear to anyone working on the game, and in order to avoid such comparison, it would have been best to take things in some sort of new direction. In the end, though, the game ends up recycling elements from the OT, and seems to desperately want franchise fans to get all nostalgic when playing through it, at least from all the callbacks I've seen in playthroughs. Agreed. Just like every Marvel film is compared to other Marvel films. You can't have ME in the title then say "it's not fair to compare to previous titles". Like the hell it isn't. Every BIOWARE game is compared to each other. If Andromeda lowers the bar - so be it. Much like DA2, it'll result with a slightly better game on return if they actually listen to feedback. Too much emphasis from fans to hear no evil and see no evil. Bioware screwed the pooch on this one and I can live with that. I don't want it, but the writing is already on the wall. This is a lesser game.
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Post by boyaki on Mar 20, 2017 17:36:53 GMT
Well some people enjoy comedy that does not make them childish. Also we can enjoy a simple comedy and a deep reflexive artwork. Those are not mutually exclusive. As you may note, I didn't call the people enjoying GotG childish, I called GotG childish.
I acknowledge that it's largely a matter of taste. I just had to facepalm a lot when I watched it.
Sorry I misunderstood. And yes I definitivly feel alone when I defend GotG as a non-typical marvel blockbuster
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Post by vilegrim on Mar 20, 2017 18:43:31 GMT
Great review, and solid solid points. I think its a victim of the time we live in, to much forced social crap, what ever happened to sci fi's being about that and not the SJW stuff. No offense but its overly done in this game and thats my humble opinion You mean when Star Trek:TOS had the first on screen black, female bridge officer (either of those things, first black and first female) ? Or the first inter racial kiss? Or when TNG had the first same sex kiss on prime time tv? There has NEVER been a time when Sci-fi was 'just sci-fi', whether it's the neo-conservatism and frankly terrifying racial ideas of John Ringo (literally comparing Arabs to a swarm of genocidal space lizards, I am not kidding), to the gun politics of Larry Correia in the Monster Hunters International series, to going way back to the politics in Heinlein's works, or Asimov's, or Clarke's, or indeed H G Wells with the Class politics in the Time Machine and Colonialism in War of The Worlds.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 20, 2017 18:45:50 GMT
Considering that Guardians of the Galaxy is a fucking awesome movie so to me that makes ME:A sound like an even better game because I'm so fucking sick and tied of ultra serious grimdark shit. It's a matter of taste I suppose.
GotG strikes me as something teenagers may like for the most part, it's simply childish. I prefer The Expanse.
Some of us like both, of course.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 20, 2017 18:52:08 GMT
It's a matter of taste I suppose.
GotG strikes me as something teenagers may like for the most part, it's simply childish. I prefer The Expanse.
Some of us like both, of course. True, but on the same level? GotG is mindless fun, for the most part... although writing is quite clever in places, more then people give it credit for, it's still a lighthearted action romp. The Expanse is smart, hard scifie - what ME1 tried to be, originally. While both might be enjoyable, only the letter is really interesting/intriguing in the long run...
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Post by radaway on Mar 20, 2017 18:54:03 GMT
I'm also interested in what your issues with the ending were (without spoilers, preferably). Was it a case of the ending breaking the lore or not fitting the tone of the game, or was it just poorly written or anti climactic? As for the ending, it's an unearned mess. Think Mass Effect 2 attempts without any of the customization or drama. Kett or collectors, tonally it's all wrong.
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Post by mugwump on Mar 20, 2017 19:02:42 GMT
It's a matter of taste I suppose.
GotG strikes me as something teenagers may like for the most part, it's simply childish. I prefer The Expanse.
Some of us like both, of course. *Raises hand*
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Post by Fredward on Mar 20, 2017 19:07:22 GMT
Sooo... about that bi Jaal and straight Vetra...
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Post by goishen on Mar 20, 2017 19:15:46 GMT
The thing that really gets my goat is the writers. Now, I understand that they're ME fans and they want everything to do be hunky dorey. But in order to make sausage, you've gotta slaughter the pigs.
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Post by hsomcokesniper on Mar 20, 2017 19:18:20 GMT
I liked this review. Nice to hear well reasoned criticism without the usual ranting. It's refreshing. I was wondering, would a follow up be possible once the game is out? I would like to hear more specific (spoilers allowed) take on the games ups and downs from you.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 20, 2017 19:55:17 GMT
Some of us like both, of course. True, but on the same level? GotG is mindless fun, for the most part... although writing is quite clever in places, more then people give it credit for, it's still a lighthearted action romp. The Expanse is smart, hard scifie - what ME1 tried to be, originally. While both might be enjoyable, only the letter is really interesting/intriguing in the long run... I'm not quite sure what "on the same level" means in this context. Can two artworks that aren't trying to do the same thing be meaningfully compared in that manner? Whether ME:A should have been trying to do what it did is a separate question; one that I think is meaningful although highly subjective.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 20, 2017 19:59:30 GMT
I don't exactly buy your complaints on characters though. ME trilogy was also notorious with cliched dialogues and bugged animations for your characters. So I feel like you just view ME trilogy through pink coloured glasses when comparing to ME:A. It feels unfair comparison. Only thing you really said is same old issues from ME trilogy are here but there are much more great moments that were rarely if not at all done in ME trilogy. This game doesn't have a thesis or a reason to really be a game. Mass Effect 1 had atrocious writing, poor gameplay design and pop ins that would make your eyes bleed but it has a thesis and is a decade old. This is not the same. Hm... I didn't come away with a clear sense of why ME:A doesn't have a thesis. I suppose you could say that I don't see the thesis about the thesis. Is it maybe that the various miscellaneous flaws are making it impossible to see a thesis even if there is one?
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Post by cobalt72 on Mar 20, 2017 20:18:24 GMT
Not sure if I can ask this here. But in the comments section on YouTube,you were asked if a certain character was romanceable by male Ryder and you said something like Hell yeah. But now, it seems like this character is not available for a male Ryder.
So are they mistaken? Were you mistaken? What did you mean by Hell Yeah
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Post by Iakus on Mar 20, 2017 20:23:14 GMT
Considering that Guardians of the Galaxy is a fucking awesome movie so to me that makes ME:A sound like an even better game because I'm so fucking sick and tied of ultra serious grimdark shit. It's a matter of taste I suppose.
GotG strikes me as something teenagers may like for the most part, it's simply childish. I prefer The Expanse.
I like GotG and The Expanse. The books, mainly. The tv series is only okay.
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Post by blanks on Mar 20, 2017 20:49:07 GMT
I like parts of the expanse, but I have grown to hate the crew of the Roci. Especially Holden. Also, count me among the people kind of bored by the latest book. The Free Navy can go get fucked.
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Post by timebean on Mar 20, 2017 21:03:24 GMT
One of the the issues you raise is the the lack of choice (ie, at the end, when you discuss the lack of real decisions, such as sacrificing the Angara to save your folks, etc). This is one of the watering down effects that happened in both the Dragon Age and the Mass Effect series, where you had really important decisions to make that could affect the outcome and/or had their own complex moral implications in the older titles, and very little in the newer ones. Even little side quests had some tough choices, like the poor templar who was being brainwashed by a desire demon in DAO, but was effectively getting everything he ever wanted. Or even the couple deciding what to do about their unborn child on the Presidium in ME1. I remember agonizing over those types of decisions. It made it feel...real. And then there were characters who had their own agendas that didn't overlap with yours, and they let you know it! The stand-off with Wrex in ME1, with Sten in DAO, for example. I mean, you could actually LOSE your team members, thru sacrifice (Kaidan and Ashley), disagreement (Leliana at the Ashes), or betrayal (Zevran in Denerim).
Then in Dragon Age Inquisition, it was more like...5 different shades of saying yes to everyone. Sure, there was the whole choose the templar or mages, but it wasn't...I don't know how to say it...on the ground. ya know? In the muck, with the soldiers, deciding matters of morality. There was really...nothing...there. Nothing to risk. In every play through, I always ended up on that balcony.
Anyway, my question for you is...in your experience of the game...was there any deep interactions with characters or side quests with complex moral decisions? I realize from your video that overall, the main quest may not have that as much, but I was wondering if there was the occasional painful decision in there. Also, do you think there is the potential for very different outcomes based on you decisions, or is watered down like DAI (assuming you have played DAI)?
Thanks!
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Post by Cassandra on Mar 20, 2017 21:35:29 GMT
Okay. Firstly, this isn't a timing issue of when the game was released, it's a suckage issue. Sure, maybe if the game had released later in the year when nothing else was being released, it might have favored better in the reviews. Still would'a sucked just as much, just that we wouldn't have anything else to play at the time. Secondly, bullshit they were all one dimensional characters. We knew where Tali was going after the fight with Saren. We knew what Wrex wanted on Virmire. We knew what Garrus wanted, and more importantly, why he wanted it. Here, they create things and then knock them down (straw men they are called) and then proclaim that they're gods for knocking them down. It's like they're just meeting their squad mates for the first time. Screw whether or not we work well together or we want to kill one another, let's send them off to another galaxy! It's ridiculous. It'd have been better because some of technical problems wouldn't have been in. The scores would've been a bit higher as well. I can agree on Wrex (he was my favorite squadmate since he first) but Tali in ME was essentially a walking codex about quarians. I liked her better from the second. Kaidan and Ashley were...okayish. Even Garrus got better development in the second. That's not a comparison with MEA's squad, but an opinion on the ME's. Which wasn't the stellar cast and writing people believe. At least in my opinion. Also, on meeting squadmates on the first time...ME actually did it, with the Normandy's crew and Kaidan. It was recently assembled and they didn't know each other. The difference being BioWare had yet to reach mainstream status and were still developing their craft. By 2017, expectations and standards have changed. While I agree Tali lacked the later depth seen as the series progressed, most found her interesting enough because few games took the time to expand on lore through character interaction. Basically, Mass Effect pioneered character archetypes not many games did. Unfortunately, they aren't the new kid on the block anymore and companies have come along to surpass them. It's comparable in a way with the Final Fantasy franchise. Where once considered RPG gold, it struggled for a long time because it was stuck in a period that no longer existed. Personally, I have liked what I've seen of the characters in Andromeda so far. But I can't say the game as a whole as pulled me in the way Mass Effect did.
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Post by The Twilight God on Mar 20, 2017 21:39:23 GMT
I'm also interested in what your issues with the ending were (without spoilers, preferably). Was it a case of the ending breaking the lore or not fitting the tone of the game, or was it just poorly written or anti climactic? As for the ending, it's an unearned mess. Think Mass Effect 2 attempts without any of the customization or drama. What does that even mean?
Speak plainly, sir.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 20, 2017 21:43:03 GMT
I don't exactly buy your complaints on characters though. ME trilogy was also notorious with cliched dialogues and bugged animations for your characters. So I feel like you just view ME trilogy through pink coloured glasses when comparing to ME:A. It feels unfair comparison. Only thing you really said is same old issues from ME trilogy are here but there are much more great moments that were rarely if not at all done in ME trilogy. This game doesn't have a thesis or a reason to really be a game. Mass Effect 1 had atrocious writing, poor gameplay design and pop ins that would make your eyes bleed but it has a thesis and is a decade old. This is not the same. This is how I feel about Andromeda 12 hours in. It's as if it led its own question. "Can we escape Milky Way and find a new meaning?" and the answer is "Well, we can escape but that's it." There's a lot of good ideas and concepts thrown around but there's no throughline for any one of them to form a coherent storyline so far. The game feels like a prototype of really good but often disjointed and sometimes boring segments. I thought the first 5 hours were quite unimpressive and hard to swallow because the premise felt paper-thin. I have to admit though, running around the Nexus where some actual world-building happens after settling my first colony on Eos it feels like it is building towards something with potential but reading your review and listening to my inner skeptic I have this unshakable feeling that this potential won't be utilized, in part because the game is not only written by too many writers but also 2-3 that left and others had to take over. You can often feel how the main story about the Archon and the "family mystery" feels thematically out of place to the more interesting themes of exploring the unknown for the first time, making first contact and figuring out the leadership of a struggling civilization, but if it were like ME1 it would take the latter ideas and intertwine them elegantly with the more mainstream "beat the bad guys" plot but so far it's not connecting.
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