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Post by bigbad on Apr 4, 2017 11:34:04 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues).
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Post by pav on Apr 4, 2017 11:34:19 GMT
But having all the males be ripped supermodels is fine? I'm all for having a huge diversity of characters, but just like how not everyone is beautiful, not everyone is average either. What? One my concerns about this game is how skinny and weak Male Ryder looks. He is supposed to be former alliance, he has had combat/military training. He shouldn't be as beastly as Shepherd was in ME3, but he should still look strong. Yet somehow Scott Ryders shoulders are smaller and less broad then mine ffs. Scott has the body of someone who eats healthy, but has never done any real excercise or military/combat training. He looks fine with armor on, but in his casual clothing he looks weak af. Certainly not ripped by any stretch of the imagination.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 4, 2017 12:03:17 GMT
But having all the males be ripped supermodels is fine? I'm all for having a huge diversity of characters, but just like how not everyone is beautiful, not everyone is average either. What? One my concerns about this game is how skinny and weak Male Ryder looks. He is supposed to be former alliance, he has had combat/military training. He shouldn't be as beastly as Shepherd was in ME3, but he should still look strong. Yet somehow Scott Ryders shoulders are smaller and less broad then mine ffs. Scott has the body of someone who eats healthy, but has never done any real excercise or military/combat training. He looks fine with armor on, but in his casual clothing he looks weak af. Certainly not ripped by any stretch of the imagination. That's especially bad for me since I'm a powerlifter and Ryder really is a total manlet. Look at the size of his head compared to his shoulder width when wearing casual clothing. Its really bad for immersion. For years I've been hoping for different body models to choose from or a slider or something, but it never happens.
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Post by chawktrick on Apr 4, 2017 12:10:00 GMT
At this point, it doesn't really matter why it happened. They effed up. The real question is what happens now? Does Bioware Montreal get nuked by EA? Are some people's jobs on the line? Do Bioware move the Mass Effect project back to Edmonton? You have to figure that "Andromeda 2" is already in pre-production. The fallout of this will influence, in a big way, the perception of the franchise going forward. Agree, the long term damage of this franchise is unredeemable. I disagree. People have had similar thoughts about other franchises; one that comes to mind most recently would be Resident Evil. However, people will purchase future games and will find the franchise 'redeemable' should they turn out to be really good games. I can all but guarantee this.
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Post by chawktrick on Apr 4, 2017 12:19:15 GMT
But having all the males be ripped supermodels is fine? I'm all for having a huge diversity of characters, but just like how not everyone is beautiful, not everyone is average either. What? One my concerns about this game is how skinny and weak Male Ryder looks. He is supposed to be former alliance, he has had combat/military training. He shouldn't be as beastly as Shepherd was in ME3, but he should still look strong. Yet somehow Scott Ryders shoulders are smaller and less broad then mine ffs. Scott has the body of someone who eats healthy, but has never done any real excercise or military/combat training. He looks fine with armor on, but in his casual clothing he looks weak af. Certainly not ripped by any stretch of the imagination. I think you could look at this another way, to play Devil's Advocate - does physical strength equate to much in a futuristic world? It's a fairly common science-fiction notion that, as society develops, physical strength becomes less and less relevant. It can become a crutch for the weak-minded and brutish. That's why Ryder's body size, although small, doesn't bother me much. He has the weaponry and biotics to make up for it. Plus, I have a relatively close friend who is a Navy Seal and he (at best) pushes 190 lb., so that may also be why Ryder's muscle mass doesn't bother me. That's about where'd I guess Ryder is in weight. That said, I do agree that a slider or something should be put in place for people looking to emulate their own qualities. If DA:I could do it, not sure why ME couldn't moving forward.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 4, 2017 12:34:29 GMT
I think you could look at this another way, to play Devil's Advocate - does physical strength equate to much in a futuristic world? It's a fairly common science-fiction notion that, as society develops, physical strength becomes less and less relevant. It can become a crutch for the weak-minded and brutish. That's why Ryder's body size, although small, doesn't bother me much. He has the weaponry and biotics to make up for it. Thats a very shallow view of physical strength.. Muscles aren't just for picking up heavy stuff, for example the core muscles (all abdominal muscles, mid and lower back) are basically a corset of muscles that wrap around the spine protecting it from injuries. Weight lifting dramatically increases bone density, joint and tendon strength and improves the body-mind connection. You get stronger in every way, it even improves the metabolism and you become faster because bigger muscles can propel you to higher speeds (just look how buff sprinters are) Thats why top level race car drivers are encouraged to spend time in the gym, if they have an racing accident which usually involve a ton of G's a stronger body will result in less injuries, especially in the neck area. There is absolutely no drawback in packing some muscle, there is no reason not to be strong and trained in the future, even with all the helpful gadgets.-
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Post by Petroshenko on Apr 4, 2017 12:43:07 GMT
What a weak video and research, especially on "representing women" part and facescans. None of this has anything to do with:
- dead eyes effect, that's entirely a technical & artistic failure - eyesore MS Paint neon hair colors, those were selected, not scanned - overcooked makeup applied in post-scan process, facescans don't even have makeup lol - all Asari minus Peebee having the same face - awful Turian face colors
But of course none of this matters in attempts to blame "political corectness" for everything, whether it makes any sense or not. Even if the actual sources did say all the video claims they did, taking it as a gospel is ridiculous on part of the video's author. We're talking developers interested in blaming everyone but themselves here. Critical thinking & filtering should be applied to dev quotes as well. Again, facescans and "EA political culture" did NOT select those particular neon hair colors or messed up eye reflections. Those are concious technical and artistic decisions. Outsourcing to external EA studios ain't an issue either, multiple EA franchises do it succesfully on a regular basis.
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Post by chawktrick on Apr 4, 2017 13:09:53 GMT
I think you could look at this another way, to play Devil's Advocate - does physical strength equate to much in a futuristic world? It's a fairly common science-fiction notion that, as society develops, physical strength becomes less and less relevant. It can become a crutch for the weak-minded and brutish. That's why Ryder's body size, although small, doesn't bother me much. He has the weaponry and biotics to make up for it. Thats a very shallow view of physical strength.. Muscles aren't just for picking up heavy stuff, for example the core muscles (all abdominal muscles, mid and lower back) are basically a corset of muscles that wrap around the spine protecting it from injuries. Weight lifting dramatically increases bone density, joint and tendon strength and improves the body-mind connection. You get stronger in every way, it even improves the metabolism and you become faster because bigger muscles can propel you to higher speeds (just look how buff sprinters are) Thats why top level race car drivers are encouraged to spend time in the gym, if they have an racing accident which usually involve a ton of G's a stronger body will result in less injuries, especially in the neck area. There is absolutely no drawback in packing some muscle, there is no reason not to be strong and trained in the future, even with all the helpful gadgets.- If it's about improving mind/body connection, higher metabolism, etc., how much more does Ryder need to weigh to fit the notion that he's "strong?" You can have all of those things you mentioned and not be 200+ lbs. And then it again goes back to it being in the future. What's the point of a dominating, or "strong" physical presence when it isn't necessary? I somewhat agree with the point you're making, but your OP made it sound like he needed to be fairly jacked to match your perception of what a combat protagonist should be and I disagree.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 4, 2017 13:12:23 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). The real life model they took her scan from is gorgeous but Sara retains only a passing resemblance to her. So I wouldn't say 'ugly'. Maybe just 'not unattractive' is as far as I would go complimenting the final Sara. That is still leaps and bounds better than any of the CC presets.
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Post by darkway1 on Apr 4, 2017 13:17:27 GMT
What? One my concerns about this game is how skinny and weak Male Ryder looks. He is supposed to be former alliance, he has had combat/military training. He shouldn't be as beastly as Shepherd was in ME3, but he should still look strong. Yet somehow Scott Ryders shoulders are smaller and less broad then mine ffs. Scott has the body of someone who eats healthy, but has never done any real excercise or military/combat training. He looks fine with armor on, but in his casual clothing he looks weak af. Certainly not ripped by any stretch of the imagination. I think you could look at this another way, to play Devil's Advocate - does physical strength equate to much in a futuristic world? It's a fairly common science-fiction notion that, as society develops, physical strength becomes less and less relevant. It can become a crutch for the weak-minded and brutish. That's why Ryder's body size, although small, doesn't bother me much. He has the weaponry and biotics to make up for it. Plus, I have a relatively close friend who is a Navy Seal and he (at best) pushes 190 lb., so that may also be why Ryder's muscle mass doesn't bother me. That's about where'd I guess Ryder is in weight. That said, I do agree that a slider or something should be put in place for people looking to emulate their own qualities. If DA:I could do it, not sure why ME couldn't moving forward. To be fair,Mass Effect is supposed to be a rpg at heart..."role play game".....if you want to be a muscle bound,biotic,super scientist then why not have the options to create one?
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Good comedy is all about.......timing!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by General Aetius on Apr 4, 2017 13:20:47 GMT
What a bunch of sissies, crying the end is nigh just because of subpar facial animations.
Get a frikkin life.
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Post by chawktrick on Apr 4, 2017 13:26:04 GMT
I think you could look at this another way, to play Devil's Advocate - does physical strength equate to much in a futuristic world? It's a fairly common science-fiction notion that, as society develops, physical strength becomes less and less relevant. It can become a crutch for the weak-minded and brutish. That's why Ryder's body size, although small, doesn't bother me much. He has the weaponry and biotics to make up for it. Plus, I have a relatively close friend who is a Navy Seal and he (at best) pushes 190 lb., so that may also be why Ryder's muscle mass doesn't bother me. That's about where'd I guess Ryder is in weight. That said, I do agree that a slider or something should be put in place for people looking to emulate their own qualities. If DA:I could do it, not sure why ME couldn't moving forward. To be fair,Mass Effect is supposed to be a rpg at heart..."role play game".....if you want to be a muscle bound,biotic,super scientist then why not have the options to create one? I don't disagree - as I stated, I think a slider would probably be a worthwhile addition. I was simply explaining I don't personally have a problem at all with Ryder's physical appearance. But, I'm also not someone who gets heavily into the character customization stuff. I'm in it for the world, the travel and the experiences moreso than the way my toon looks. But, that's just me.
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Post by darkway1 on Apr 4, 2017 13:39:00 GMT
What a bunch of sissies, crying the end is nigh just because of subpar facial animations. Get a frikkin life. No one here is crying,people are discussing how Bioware produced it's game.....parts of the thread have been quite educational.
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Arcian
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Apr 4, 2017 13:40:46 GMT
This is what happens when all your talent jumps ship and you're left with Super MAC and a bunch of overworked and underpaid interns.
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Post by darkway1 on Apr 4, 2017 13:53:46 GMT
To be fair,Mass Effect is supposed to be a rpg at heart..."role play game".....if you want to be a muscle bound,biotic,super scientist then why not have the options to create one? I don't disagree - as I stated, I think a slider would probably be a worthwhile addition. I was simply explaining I don't personally have a problem at all with Ryder's physical appearance. But, I'm also not someone who gets heavily into the character customization stuff. I'm in it for the world, the travel and the experiences moreso than the way my toon looks. But, that's just me. Yeah,I understand where your coming from,in a perfect world I'd like a game that has bit of fallout,a bit of skyrim,some old school Bioware,a lump of witcher,some Red Dead and a slice of GTA.......topped off with a character creation system that rivals Saints Row......it's never going to happen but I can dream.
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“We are the beginning, you are the end.”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ashaluna
PSN: Cynthe
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Post by Eshaye on Apr 4, 2017 13:56:32 GMT
This is what happens when all your talent jumps ship and you're left with Super MAC and a bunch of overworked and underpaid interns. ^ That IS exactly it. -.-
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Apr 4, 2017 14:00:55 GMT
This is what I thought essentially from day one, that actual scanned faces are much tougher to deal with than just art work rigged faces. If you are going to go one more level of complexity though you have to make sure you go the whole way,
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 4, 2017 14:19:46 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). sure she isn't a gorgon given life on the screen but her character model isn't the best overall. Her mouth and eyes are disproportionate and her skin is poorly shaded.
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Post by nanotm on Apr 4, 2017 14:31:21 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). sure she isn't a gorgon given life on the screen but her character model isn't the best overall. Her mouth and eyes are disproportionate and her skin is poorly shaded. she has no real facial symmetry, its like looking at a childs face before they hit puberty and things like jaw line and cheekbones start to show. Wallace had better facial characteristics and his face was actually made of playdoh not a facial scan hit with airbrushing to make it look like it was .....
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 4, 2017 14:33:33 GMT
If it's about improving mind/body connection, higher metabolism, etc., how much more does Ryder need to weigh to fit the notion that he's "strong?" You can have all of those things you mentioned and not be 200+ lbs. Why set limits? Be as strong and muscular as you can be. Being trained 230lbs has only upsides, I weigh 237lbs at 6'1'' and my weight does not slow me down in any way but it allows me to be physically tougher and stronger than other people. As I mentioned, being physically powerful and tough is important in everything that involves combat as it makes the body more sturdy and less prone to injuries. Gladiators back in the roman empire worked out hard to survive battle. Physical toughness is going to be a thing till we have brains transplanted into battle robots. Ryder is a relatively normal human being wearing some armor and thats it, and he gets into a lot of combat, gets thrown around by explosions and kicked, stomped and gnawed by large animals. He sure as hell would benefit from being tougher and stronger, future or not. And aesthetically it would be better too. Yes, Ryder wears armor that protects him/her, but would you drive a car with no seatbelt because it has an airbag?
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 4, 2017 14:35:20 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). There's just things off about her model. Too many shadows and her nose is off from her model. First time I saw her, I thought she just lost a boxing match because she had really dark eyes and it looked like a broken nose. My bigger issue is that faces in general have very chubby cheeks and wide, square jaw lines that make everyone look like they have fat heads.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 4, 2017 14:38:35 GMT
Apparently Sara looked like this before the day one patch? I don't really have a problem with how the current default model looks, but this one looks much better.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 4, 2017 14:40:27 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). There's just things off about her model. Too many shadows and her nose is off from her model. First time I saw her, I thought she just lost a boxing match because she had really dark eyes and it looked like a broken nose. My bigger issue is that faces in general have very chubby cheeks and wide, square jaw lines that make everyone look like they have fat heads. I've only ever seen Sloane Kelley in the trailers, but yeah, she seemed to have such a baby face. On the other hand Cora looks like her face is too narrow?
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 4, 2017 14:42:19 GMT
Apparently Sara looked like this before the day one patch? I don't really have a problem with how the current default model looks, but this one looks much better. Am I missing something here? That is the Sara we have.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 4, 2017 14:45:04 GMT
Apparently Sara looked like this before the day one patch? I don't really have a problem with how the current default model looks, but this one looks much better. Am I missing something here? That is the Sara we have. It's posible I pulled up the wrong video.. the one I remember seeing before she looked quite different.. still looked like the current one, but with less exaggerated features.
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