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Post by Steelcan on Apr 4, 2017 14:46:02 GMT
Gladiators back in the roman empire worked out hard to survive battle. random side note from a history guy Gladiators aren't the best example for bringing up physical fitness as they were conditioned and fed a diet specifically to emphasize fatty tissue that could be wounded in bouts and not render life threatening injuries. They also ate carbs like a maniac and received little in the way of protein, and certainly almost nothing in the form of animal proteins or fats.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 4, 2017 14:47:14 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). I wouldn't say shes ugly, I simply find her very bland. They tried way too hard to go with a ''girl next door look'', she looks so extremely average that it already borders on the weird territory. And I can't exactly say why but she looks kind of unhealthy at times. Also, the engine and shadows is very hard on the faces, depending on lighting my male Ryder either looks like a freaking supermodel or a meth user hobo in his final breath. Thats really not that bad:
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Post by auu on Apr 4, 2017 14:47:17 GMT
The faces don't even bother me, it's the animations, the eyes, and the craggy moon skin textures.
Then it's how they made each and every Asari look just like Dr. Lexi. It's atrocious.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 4, 2017 14:49:45 GMT
Apparently Sara looked like this before the day one patch? I don't really have a problem with how the current default model looks, but this one looks much better. Am I missing something here? That is the Sara we have. You are right, wrong video. Sorry
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 4, 2017 15:01:22 GMT
Am I missing something here? That is the Sara we have. You are right, wrong video. Sorry Hah, well good to know it wasn't just me missing something then. And yeah, I agree that Sara looks much better. Would still be nice to be able to customize her though. I wish we could use the default and just change things like hair style, hair/eye color, and makeup without changing the facial geometry.
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Post by bigbad on Apr 4, 2017 15:01:51 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). I wouldn't say shes ugly, I simply find her very bland. They tried way too hard to go with a ''girl next door look'', she looks so extremely average that it already borders on the weird territory. And I can't exactly say why but she looks kind of unhealthy at times. Also, the engine and shadows is very hard on the faces, depending on lighting my male Ryder either looks like a freaking supermodel or a meth user hobo in his final breath. Thats really not that bad: Yes, I think that lighting makes a huge difference (lighting on the Nexus in particular is atrocious and makes everyone and everything look hideous). IMO, Sara looks fantastic and not-at-all bland in that shot.
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Post by bigbad on Apr 4, 2017 15:03:07 GMT
Then it's how they made each and every Asari look just like Dr. Lexi. It's atrocious. Yep. This better be one of the things they plan to fix. The Asari clone issue is completely unacceptable.
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Post by auu on Apr 4, 2017 15:04:54 GMT
Oh, has anyone else noticed that sometimes it looks like models are being lit from inside the mouth? It's really distracting.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 4, 2017 15:09:32 GMT
Oh, has anyone else noticed that sometimes it looks like models are being lit from inside the mouth? It's really distracting. Yeah I think thats a lip gloss engine issue. This or they DO have lights in their mouths....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 15:11:13 GMT
To be honest, it's males who needed far more work, with textures being too old for the protagonists and the odd animations once in a while. I never saw problems with female Ryder, and some NPCs had weird coloured eyes, that made them look flat. But when they applied the two color eyes, and darker colours, the eyes looked fine... make up was always an issue, but I am used to it in the verse.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 4, 2017 15:25:58 GMT
By the way, does anyone know why BioWare Montreal, which was an adjunct/support team to the original team in Edmonton, got control of Mass Effect? This isn't a judgment of them either way; it's just weird to me that the franchise got moved when Dragon Age stayed in-house. With a 5 year development cycle, 1 year of which was apparently wasted in No Mans Sky experiments along with the decision to not hire professional writers, key people bailing on the project mid development among other things it's pretty obvious to me that the games problems is due to incompetent management. It was their first AAA game and it apparently was too big for their britches. Also the "represent real women" thing boggles the mind. I have never, ever made a character and thought, no she's too pretty. Over sexualized due to armor, make up or what not maybe, but in generally I want my character to be beautiful. I mean, there's a middle ground between Naomi Cambell at a photoshoot and the nerdy Star Bucks barrista that is Sara Ryder... she's the hero,she's my representation in the game... i don't want her to be super plain. If they wanted a good representation of women they should've looked at the new Lara Croft, not fucking Wall Mart or whatever... This post is savage.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 4, 2017 15:34:11 GMT
You are right, wrong video. Sorry Hah, well good to know it wasn't just me missing something then. And yeah, I agree that Sara looks much better. Would still be nice to be able to customize her though. I wish we could use the default and just change things like hair style, hair/eye color, and makeup without changing the facial geometry. Yeah making some changes would be nice. About the video.. the animations don't look nearly as awkward on this version, especially when grimacing. Makes me wonder if they designed the animations using the face from the video, then tweaked her facial features without redoing the animations.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 4, 2017 15:37:12 GMT
By the way, does anyone know why BioWare Montreal, which was an adjunct/support team to the original team in Edmonton, got control of Mass Effect? This isn't a judgment of them either way; it's just weird to me that the franchise got moved when Dragon Age stayed in-house. With a 5 year development cycle, 1 year of which was apparently wasted in No Mans Sky experiments along with the decision to not hire professional writers, key people bailing on the project mid development among other things it's pretty obvious to me that the games problems is due to incompetent management. It was their first AAA game and it apparently was too big for their britches. Also the "represent real women" thing boggles the mind. I have never, ever made a character and thought, no she's too pretty. Over sexualized due to armor, make up or what not maybe, but in generally I want my character to be beautiful. I mean, there's a middle ground between Naomi Cambell at a photoshoot and the nerdy Star Bucks barrista that is Sara Ryder... she's the hero,she's my representation in the game... i don't want her to be super plain. If they wanted a good representation of women they should've looked at the new Lara Croft, not fucking Wall Mart or whatever... This post is savage. Savage and one I completely agree with. I'm definitely a fan of the new Lara. So yeah that would have worked but even the model they used for Sara would have been fine if they had just stayed truer to her instead of trying to make her more "girl next door". By the way, isn't the "girl next door" moniker usually used in conjunction with the hot "all American girl" type of description? Since when did "girl next door" mean "plain jane"? Anyway, just not a fan of the new female Ryders, the default or the custom ones. I've seen some people make decent looking Sara's with the CC but I can't seem to make anything that doesn't look like a neanderthal. Without a good light skin tone and non-neon hair colors the custom ones are rather useless to me anyway.
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Post by chawktrick on Apr 4, 2017 15:55:20 GMT
If it's about improving mind/body connection, higher metabolism, etc., how much more does Ryder need to weigh to fit the notion that he's "strong?" You can have all of those things you mentioned and not be 200+ lbs. Why set limits? Be as strong and muscular as you can be. Being trained 230lbs has only upsides, I weigh 237lbs at 6'1'' and my weight does not slow me down in any way but it allows me to be physically tougher and stronger than other people. As I mentioned, being physically powerful and tough is important in everything that involves combat as it makes the body more sturdy and less prone to injuries. Gladiators back in the roman empire worked out hard to survive battle. Physical toughness is going to be a thing till we have brains transplanted into battle robots. Ryder is a relatively normal human being wearing some armor and thats it, and he gets into a lot of combat, gets thrown around by explosions and kicked, stomped and gnawed by large animals. He sure as hell would benefit from being tougher and stronger, future or not. And aesthetically it would be better too. Yes, Ryder wears armor that protects him/her, but would you drive a car with no seatbelt because it has an airbag? Aesthetically speaking, I still don't understand the need for the male Ryder to be physically impressive. The female Ryder can be just as powerful as the male Ryder in this game but I notice that her body type doesn't appear to be a point of contention. As for the car analogy, the seatbelt has a direct correlation to safety. Ryder's physical strength has a less direct correlation to power in ME:A because of biotics. I can agree the game should implement sliders and some more body type customization tools. I still maintain, however, the base model doesn't need to be physically impressive. It fits the world imo.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Apr 4, 2017 16:10:08 GMT
As I have mentioned before, physical toughness correlates pretty directly with injury prevention thus it is very important. And my Ryder isn't a biotic, I've spent zero points in that area.
In my humble opinion having special ops that aren't very fit does not fit any world. Special ops try to have an edge in every area they can, they try to be the best, be it with equipment, training....but not physically? Makes no sense.
Unless you're a brain in a battle robot you have to rely on your body, so better make it as tough, strong and efficient as possible.
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Post by KLGChaos on Apr 4, 2017 16:15:13 GMT
Do non-trolls actually think Sara is ugly? Obviously, her eyes and facial animations are bad, but that's true of virtually all the humans. Apart from the systemic problems, I don't see the reason for focusing on Sara. She is a massive upgrade from Femshep's models in any of the original trilogy, and is quite attractive (or would be without the systemic issues). I wouldn't say shes ugly, I simply find her very bland. They tried way too hard to go with a ''girl next door look'', she looks so extremely average that it already borders on the weird territory. And I can't exactly say why but she looks kind of unhealthy at times. Also, the engine and shadows is very hard on the faces, depending on lighting my male Ryder either looks like a freaking supermodel or a meth user hobo in his final breath. Thats really not that bad: I agree with you there. When I made my male Ryder, he looked fine and he looks fine a good amount of the time in game. But in certain lighting or when he makes certain faces, he looks more like he's 50 instead of 25. I'm 37 and I have far less wrinkles the he does.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Apr 4, 2017 16:29:10 GMT
What a weak video and research, especially on "representing women" part and facescans. None of this has anything to do with: - dead eyes effect, that's entirely a technical & artistic failure - eyesore MS Paint neon hair colors, those were selected, not scanned - overcooked makeup applied in post-scan process, facescans don't even have makeup lol - all Asari minus Peebee having the same face - awful Turian face colors But of course none of this matters in attempts to blame "political corectness" for everything, whether it makes any sense or not. Even if the actual sources did say all the video claims they did, taking it as a gospel is ridiculous on part of the video's author. We're talking developers interested in blaming everyone but themselves here. Critical thinking & filtering should be applied to dev quotes as well. Again, facescans and "EA political culture" did NOT select those particular neon hair colors or messed up eye reflections. Those are concious technical and artistic decisions. Outsourcing to external EA studios ain't an issue either, multiple EA franchises do it succesfully on a regular basis. "Supposed inside sources" I never claimed this was verified information. Simply interesting if true, also I imagine stuff like the eyes would be part of the work that needed to be done to make those face scans look better.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 4, 2017 16:33:34 GMT
As I suspected, part of the sensitivity to popular diversity politics comes just as much from EA themselves as it does BioWare. Remember how Kotaku and other sites would write semi-slanderous articles about how BioWare sexualized their females too much (which isn't really a lie), like Miranda and Ash? As much as I believe it's probably because Casey wanted some fapmaterial I bet EA was like "this sells, do it!" and then when it turns out the tide has shifted they're like "Oh, we have to go with the flow so make them slightly unattractive like real women!".
There's no in-between apparently. Either all characters are so-so, super ugly or just kinda pretty or they're all super beautiful like any boy-animator's wet dream and Witcher 3 (except for the Skellige NPCs).
I bet if Miranda could show up in Andromeda (just hypothetically) her MEA redesign would make her look like a slightly busty, round-cheeked woman.
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Post by mikeymoonshine on Apr 4, 2017 16:39:47 GMT
Also yeah I was never on the "Sarah is ugly" train, but the model does look a bit uncanny valley, like a photo taken from really close up or something. Which is pretty much an indication of a facial scan that has not been worked on enough. She also doesn't look enough like the model they used, which to me seems disrespectful to her when they just copy and pasted the male model for Male Ryder. Other humans in the game are more concerning to me, a lot of them look wide eyed with large faces and an eternal look of surprise, again like really close up photos maybe? So yeah I don't think it's unreasonable to believe this. As for the "representing real women" part, that was just speculation from one developer told from a second hand source. So it's hardly verified info but we know Bioware and EA has a lot of people working for them with these kinds of ideas. I am actually fine with representing "real" women and "real" men, as long as we remember that models are real to. Not everyone has to look perfect but not everyone needs to be hit with the ugly stick either.
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I am Pathfinder rah bah bah
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by qwib on Apr 4, 2017 16:43:25 GMT
Sara is fine, Scott on the other hand... I find him weird.
They should fix Addison's makeup though. Just imagine someone IRL running around with that hideous makeup.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 4, 2017 17:41:14 GMT
Then it's how they made each and every Asari look just like Dr. Lexi. It's atrocious. Yep. This better be one of the things they plan to fix. The Asari clone issue is completely unacceptable. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Lol. DA2 asset reuse anyone?
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 4, 2017 17:42:39 GMT
Oh, has anyone else noticed that sometimes it looks like models are being lit from inside the mouth? It's really distracting. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Distracting is being kind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 17:49:03 GMT
By the way, does anyone know why BioWare Montreal, which was an adjunct/support team to the original team in Edmonton, got control of Mass Effect? This isn't a judgment of them either way; it's just weird to me that the franchise got moved when Dragon Age stayed in-house. The new IP. Bioware is working on a new IP, that if rumors are true, is a multiplayer shooter cut from a similar cloth as Destiny or The Division. That game is the one that EA/Bioware is prioritizing, so it went to Edmonton, the larger and more experienced studio. Money is likely a the root of the decision. Destiny made $500,000,000 at launch alone. EA wants to chase those Destiny dollars. I'd have rather seen DA given to Montreal and Edmonton keep Mass Effect, as DA always been an inferior series to Mass Effect IMO, but DA:I supposedly had Bioware's best launch. Maybe following on the heels of the ME3 ending controversy and DA:I's release, DA was viewed as the more successful IP? Or maybe Montreal was given Mass Effect because they were responsible for ME3's multiplayer, which was a big success.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 4, 2017 17:56:55 GMT
By the way, does anyone know why BioWare Montreal, which was an adjunct/support team to the original team in Edmonton, got control of Mass Effect? This isn't a judgment of them either way; it's just weird to me that the franchise got moved when Dragon Age stayed in-house. The new IP. Bioware is working on a new IP, that if rumors are true, is a multiplayer shooter cut from a similar cloth as Destiny or The Division. That game is the one that EA/Bioware is prioritizing, so it went to Edmonton, the larger and more experienced studio. Money is likely a the root of the decision. Destiny made $500,000,000 at launch alone. EA wants to chase those Destiny dollars. I'd have rather seen DA given to Montreal and Edmonton keep Mass Effect, as DA always been an inferior series to Mass Effect IMO, but DA:I supposedly had Bioware's best launch. Maybe following on the heels of the ME3 ending controversy and DA:I's release, DA was viewed as the more successful IP? Or maybe Montreal was given Mass Effect because they were responsible for ME3's multiplayer, which was a big success. But isn't Montreal (and in a different way Austin) BioWare's MP studio?
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Post by auu on Apr 4, 2017 18:02:04 GMT
Yep. This better be one of the things they plan to fix. The Asari clone issue is completely unacceptable. ,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-(_MEA_)-,.-~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸
Lol. DA2 asset reuse anyone?
It kind of reminds me of those derpy-staring faces that kept reusing in the Citadel DLC...the difference being they were all unimportant NPCs. Honestly, it was just really jarring when I encountered an Asari after meeting Dr. Lexi. I didn't realize it at first, was more confused why Dr. Lexi was wearing different clothes and was on a totally different area. I'm so accustomed to Asari having unique faces, that it seemed totally out there Bioware would actually reused face morphs for them.
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