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Post by sil on Apr 7, 2017 8:22:17 GMT
My question is, are these mini games in big games ever fun? Maybe the Deux Ex hacking puzzles, where you have to race the security protocols, cause it is a mixture of timing and logic. Or the mini-puzzles in the Talos Principle? But still meh. Done one Sudoku, done em all... I actually enjoyed the two hacking puzzles in Mass Effect 2, the problem with them was that the same two puzzles were used over and over and over and over and over and over and over and... you get the idea. Then in ME3 they cut them completely, I actually wouldn't have minded a handful of them in the quieter sections of the game.
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Post by obsidian on Apr 7, 2017 9:26:05 GMT
This is really ridicules. People can't solve a simple Sudoku type puzzle that has infinite tries and five or so symbols? Well, if you're to dumb to do that, maybe playing with a stick in the yard is more up your intellectual alley...
Srsly... Oh, we put an obstacle in a game. Better give the people a way to circumvent it, just in case it's to hard for them. Why not add the option for godmode and 100% accurate auto aim, just in case someone finds the shooty parts difficult? Or an option at the start of the game to just directly go to the credits and get all the trophies and whatnot. Why bother with actually playing a game if you can have instant gratification instead?
Shit like this is why I love Dark Souls...
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Post by NRieh on Apr 7, 2017 9:36:12 GMT
Shit like this is why I love Dark Souls... Would you kindly tell us, how many crosswords and sudoku puzzles had you solved in DS recently?
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Post by robwolf666 on Apr 7, 2017 9:36:13 GMT
Now I'm perplexed, these puzzles are the simplest I've come across in games.... I don't get it either... They're not only easy, what does it hurt to stop for 5 minutes to use your brain instead of trigger fingers, right? I hope they bring in some more complex ones you can't use a decryption key on, that reward you with top end, or unique, gear when you crack them.
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Post by lexxxich on Apr 7, 2017 9:49:55 GMT
Why, we have it. Called "Narrative Difficulty".
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Post by Psychevore on Apr 7, 2017 9:59:46 GMT
To be honest here, you need to be very ashamed of yourself for using these keys on the simplest sudokus you'll ever do in your life.
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Post by neoiceman on Apr 7, 2017 10:02:57 GMT
This is really ridicules. People can't solve a simple Sudoku type puzzle that has infinite tries and five or so symbols? Well, if you're to dumb to do that, maybe playing with a stick in the yard is more up your intellectual alley... Srsly... Oh, we put an obstacle in a game. Better give the people a way to circumvent it, just in case it's to hard for them. Why not add the option for godmode and 100% accurate auto aim, just in case someone finds the shooty parts difficult? Or an option at the start of the game to just directly go to the credits and get all the trophies and whatnot. Why bother with actually playing a game if you can have instant gratification instead? Shit like this is why I love Dark Souls... This is so true,so sad but true. Dont know how to say it better. This riddles are a waste of time, meh, playing games is a waste of time, sleeping is a waste of time, working is a waste of time. It is an part of the game; I like the old Adventures with their riddles, i like minigames in games to, if they are work good and here the Sodoku riddles are good not really hard but harder than most of the Adventures today have.
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Post by obsidian on Apr 7, 2017 10:05:10 GMT
Shit like this is why I love Dark Souls... Would you kindly tell us, how many crosswords and sudoku puzzles had you solved in DS recently? None. My point, however (and it ain't that hard to get), is that challenges and not being spoon fed the solution to every problem is a much more rewarding mechanic than the "everybody is a winner"-mentality most games show to date. But hey, that's just my opinion. If some people enjoy a good ol spoonfeeding - though I wonder why they bother with gaming then - then good for them...
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Post by scouserant23 on Apr 7, 2017 10:20:14 GMT
I love these puzzles, not because they are Sudoku but because of the glyphs. According to "military whistleblowers" (not saying its true) such as Tompkins glyphs similar to what the Egyptians used, rather than a written language like we use, where on advance technology used by Nazi Germany in antartica back in WW2. To me this is a nod to real life rumours on advanced technology. Makes it more compelling devs really did there homework when you also see that the flying creatures are similar to a scientists interpretation of what alien life could be like if planets had a different atmosphere to ours (can't remember the documentary this one came from). The devs have placed a lot of out there rumours and speculation from real life and adapted it to make the lore for this universe which to me helps make it believable. My question is, are these mini games in big games ever fun? Maybe the Deux Ex hacking puzzles, where you have to race the security protocols, cause it is a mixture of timing and logic. Or the mini-puzzles in the Talos Principle? But still meh. Done one Sudoku, done em all... Gwent was a fun minigame. So was pazak from KOTOR
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Post by chugster on Apr 7, 2017 10:33:07 GMT
You realise it did not take 2 weeks to fix this, they were just waiting for the rest of the patch to be ready...this wasn't worth a hotfix
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Apr 7, 2017 11:09:00 GMT
Some people can't solve them or need help to do so. Or some might be "lazy"/can't be bothered so if the cost is negligible why not buy some? yeah the early ones on Eos and that are quite easy butI found the later ones are harder. I've never been a Sodoku player and could never quite get to grips with them so whenever I had a key I'd use it. I didn't get them that often in my first playthrough as they were too expensive. I just got through it by looking the answers up and copying them in the cases I didn't have one. I do like a good puzzle but I found some of them a little too tricky for my taste but then I preferred the mini game ones of ME1 and 2
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Post by osito on Apr 7, 2017 11:24:05 GMT
Yes, these things are far too easy, and the decryption keys should be removed from this single player game altogether. Furthermore, there should be at least a 10x10 grid with ten symbols, which require some pencil and paper trial and error before you can solve them. Also, they should gate much more of the content. For a start, they should gate the end game, preferably with a final 25x25 grid that you have to complete after you kill the final boss (if there is a final boss - no spoilers here!). There should also be another puzzle before you can craft any weapons/armour to prove you meet the minimum intellectual requirements for the crafting - idiots shouldn't be able to craft, should they? Finally, there should be a 50x50 grid before you can screw anyone!
And while I'm on the subject of difficulty, I'd scrap all difficulties below insanity, and add a few harder difficulties, to stop all these scrubs getting their single player achievements.
/sarcasm off
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Post by katzenkrimis on Apr 7, 2017 11:37:44 GMT
Those damn locks (PC version) in ME1 are what drove me to distraction.
It's a console game. Anything to make things easier, they'll do it.
I laughed at the cost change for puzzle keys. Not because the puzzles are too hard, or too easy. But because you can make money so easily in this game. Money is NOT an issue.
I also laughed at the inventory space increase, too.
You only need 2 guns to finish the game. And with the AVP perks you can increase your inventory to more than you'll ever need.
These are two changes that weren't even necessary. Especially in a console game!
How easy can you possibly make this game? How about even easier.
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Post by timebean on Apr 7, 2017 13:14:13 GMT
I love these puzzles, not because they are Sudoku but because of the glyphs. According to "military whistleblowers" (not saying its true) such as Tompkins glyphs similar to what the Egyptians used, rather than a written language like we use, where on advance technology used by Nazi Germany in antartica back in WW2. To me this is a nod to real life rumours on advanced technology. Makes it more compelling devs really did there homework when you also see that the flying creatures are similar to a scientists interpretation of what alien life could be like if planets had a different atmosphere to ours (can't remember the documentary this one came from). The devs have placed a lot of out there rumours and speculation from real life and adapted it to make the lore for this universe which to me helps make it believable. My question is, are these mini games in big games ever fun? Maybe the Deux Ex hacking puzzles, where you have to race the security protocols, cause it is a mixture of timing and logic. Or the mini-puzzles in the Talos Principle? But still meh. Done one Sudoku, done em all... Gwent was a fun minigame. So was pazak from KOTOR OMG, I forgot about Gwent! And Pazak! Those were fun games.
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Post by timebean on Apr 7, 2017 13:18:48 GMT
My question is, are these mini games in big games ever fun? Maybe the Deux Ex hacking puzzles, where you have to race the security protocols, cause it is a mixture of timing and logic. Or the mini-puzzles in the Talos Principle? But still meh. Done one Sudoku, done em all... I'm sure they are for some people. Sudoku and crossword puzzles and such are a staple in most newspapers, so there are a lot of people who find them fun. I totally get that. I love crosswords. Reminds me of mornings before school (cereal and crosswords!!) I also love jigsaw puzzles (I used to work them with my dad...we had a table that always had a giant puzzle going). Sudoku was always the last puzzle I would do because I hated them! They were just boring as hell to me. Still...I did them in the game, because they were easy. But I can see why folks might want to skip them.
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Post by ergates on Apr 7, 2017 13:24:14 GMT
I find them absolutely impossible despite endless, fruitless attempts to solve them. So my current method of solving them is to run the game in a window, go to a website with a solution, and follow it in-game.
I didn't even know you could buy decryption keys for credits, or is this some kind of multiplayer thing?
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Post by Patrick Batman on Apr 7, 2017 13:35:38 GMT
Sure the 16 box 4 row, column ones at the start of the game I get your post but have you tried the 25 box 5 row, column ones yet? There very time consuming sometimes an hour long. Granted you could just go online and get the solutions (cause they're not random each time) but I rather solve my problem in game rather than "cheating"
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Post by ergates on Apr 7, 2017 13:37:57 GMT
Yes, these things are far too easy, and the decryption keys should be removed from this single player game altogether. Furthermore, there should be at least a 10x10 grid with ten symbols, which require some pencil and paper trial and error before you can solve them. Also, they should gate much more of the content. For a start, they should gate the end game, preferably with a final 25x25 grid that you have to complete after you kill the final boss (if there is a final boss - no spoilers here!). There should also be another puzzle before you can craft any weapons/armour to prove you meet the minimum intellectual requirements for the crafting - idiots shouldn't be able to craft, should they? Finally, there should be a 50x50 grid before you can screw anyone! And while I'm on the subject of difficulty, I'd scrap all difficulties below insanity, and add a few harder difficulties, to stop all these scrubs getting their single player achievements. /sarcasm off Indeed. Some of the comments above are arrogant, and bigoted in the extreme. The are presumably the same types of people who would dismiss dyslexic people as 'stupid' or 'dumb'. People's minds work differently. Some people have the kind of minds that cope well with logical sequences, math and pattern recognition, others do not. I'm one of the latter. I find these suduko puzzles (and the like) impossible - and I also found math impossible back when I was at school. My brain simply switches off and refuses to process the logic - it's almost like a kind of mental block, and I'm far from alone, though I found Mass Effect 2's hacking games easy. I also have a 2.1 honors degree, and four diplomas, so I'd hardly class myself as 'dumb' or 'stupid'
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Post by lexxxich on Apr 7, 2017 13:49:57 GMT
Each of those puzzles, even bigger 5*5 ones, (except one optional on Elaaden), can be solved by a simple method, slot by slot. How is it done? You find a slot that has the most possible neighbouring glyphs, and put the only possible glyph in it (as all the other glyphs are in the same row/column/shape). Find the next slot with most neighbouring glyphs, and do the same to it. Pretty often this will give you a row or column with only one glyph missing, so again there's only one glyph you can put in that free slot. Continue till all the free slots are filled. And save before attempting the puzzle, unless you want to fight some remnant if you make a mistake. Shouldn't take longer than 15 minutes even on hardest of them.
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Post by Bann Duncan on Apr 7, 2017 15:44:58 GMT
My question is, are these mini games in big games ever fun? Maybe the Deux Ex hacking puzzles, where you have to race the security protocols, cause it is a mixture of timing and logic. Or the mini-puzzles in the Talos Principle? But still meh. Done one Sudoku, done em all... Why, they are fun when they are optional, you know. I loved the astariums from DAI, had done most of them for fun. Some people (many people, I'd assume) play late at night, after their working\house routine day. I don't see how solving the fucking 5x5 sudokus at 1 AM can be fun for someone who can possibly play 3 hours per day (max), especially considering that the intention was to play Mass Effect, and not PuzzlerWorld. This! If I wanted to play a puzzle game, I'd buy one of the countless ones on Steam or the App Store. That's not what we get BioWare games for. Each of those puzzles, even bigger 5*5 ones, (except one optional on Elaaden), can be solved by a simple method, slot by slot. How is it done? You find a slot that has the most possible neighbouring glyphs, and put the only possible glyph in it (as all the other glyphs are in the same row/column/shape). Find the next slot with most neighbouring glyphs, and do the same to it. Pretty often this will give you a row or column with only one glyph missing, so again there's only one glyph you can put in that free slot. Continue till all the free slots are filled. And save before attempting the puzzle, unless you want to fight some remnant if you make a mistake. Shouldn't take longer than 15 minutes even on hardest of them. I use this method but it is still a waste of time that destroys the flow of the game. For most people, tedious busy work is the most annoying part of their jobs. Why would I want that in Mass Effect? Especially when, as NRieh points out, a lot of us are playing after work, errands, and personal responsibility in the bit of time we have before going to sleep. I would rather spend that "15 minutes" on an actual mission or character conversation than playing filler. I love the assumption by the puzzlehumpers that those of us who dislike them have weak logical thinking/pattern analysis skills. Actually, those are things I have always been good at. Doesn't mean I want to play Sudoku (which I had never played) in the middle of exploring a planet. The worst is when I got to the Monoliths at the end of a planet, which I often did, and had to do all of those in a row followed by the stupid light puzzles in the Vaults.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2017 15:50:09 GMT
I find them absolutely impossible despite endless, fruitless attempts to solve them. So my current method of solving them is to run the game in a window, go to a website with a solution, and follow it in-game. I didn't even know you could buy decryption keys for credits, or is this some kind of multiplayer thing? The general vendors sell them, I believe.
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Post by ticktak77 on Apr 7, 2017 15:51:29 GMT
The puzzles were fun.
The last one (Elaaden), was a tough SoB though.
That one took me quite a long time to get. It feels rewarding.
Some people don't want to get stuck up on doing these sorts of things though, which I get.
If you only have a limited amount of time to play, for example, you do't want to be stuck puzzle solving.
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Post by degs29 on Apr 7, 2017 16:20:34 GMT
Yeah, one of the biggest complaints were from people who literally couldn't figure out how to solve the puzzles. I occasionally do sudoku puzzles, all except the easiest of which are harder than the simplified puzzles in Andromeda. So I had no problem. But I could see how someone playing an action-RPG would become frustrated with the necessary puzzles if their solutions didn't come easy to them.
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Post by NRieh on Apr 7, 2017 16:44:58 GMT
Would you kindly tell us, how many crosswords and sudoku puzzles had you solved in DS recently? None. My point, however (and it ain't that hard to get), is that challenges and not being spoon fed the solution to every problem is a much more rewarding mechanic than the "everybody is a winner"-mentality most games show to date. But hey, that's just my opinion. If some people enjoy a good ol spoonfeeding - though I wonder why they bother with gaming then - then good for them... Sunshine, you're missing the point entirely. You bring in Dark Souls as an example of 'not being spoon fed' (which is perfectly legitimate)...BUT. Dark Souls challange players with the gameplay they had payed for. As you had noticed, it does not make you to solve crosswords or play match3. While paying Dark Souls you play...(surprise!) Dark Souls. Yet, somehow Mass Effect players wanting to play a story-driven ARPG 3rd person shooter instead of sudoku (according to you) all desire 'to be spoon fed'? Ok, if you say so.
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Post by BadgerladDK on Apr 7, 2017 17:02:04 GMT
To be honest here, you need to be very ashamed of yourself for using these keys on the simplest sudokus you'll ever do in your life. The only sudokus I'll ever do. Hence, playing an action rpg, not Sudoku Simulator 2017.
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