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Post by readher on Dec 8, 2016 12:18:01 GMT
Wow, we sure came far graphically... look at the details! Yep, almost looks good enough to be a photo... On topic - I'd like to see images of default (customizable) female protagonists from other games, so that we can actually compare like with like... I don't remember defaults, but just wanted to say that DA:O had both amazing presets and possibilities for very attractive characters. Add hair mods to that and in my opinion it has one of the best female faces in games. NPCs' looks vary a lot, but there's also a mod for that (Dragon Age: Redesigned). Definitely something to take inspiration from.
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Post by readher on Dec 8, 2016 12:08:12 GMT
Something funny I thought I'd share. There's a russian unofficial BSN forum (similar to this one) and they have threads for characters as well. I know russian a bit so I decided to look around. Funny thing is, in Cora thread they have a note that says she's Tom Taylorson's favorite romance, based on this tweet: The thing is, it was some random guy saying it's his official romance who simply happened to have the same avatar as Tom As of this moment, no one has corrected it yet. I'm debating on whether to bring it up myself or not.
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Post by readher on Dec 8, 2016 0:38:32 GMT
Gamble said that it isn't Scott with Sara. Seeing as that trailer featured Scott only and the man's armor is the one Scott wears it's logical to assume it's him. The woman's armor is also the one Jien wears, you can see it in Initiative's videos. And I think she'd be bi. Cora will almost certainly be straight and I don't think they wouldn't give any human female romance for Sara, she's a good candidate for that spot. I'll be happy either way. More options is always better, so long as they're attractive and not bland as hell. Considering her importance though, there's great potential for her personality, so I'm confident on that front. Her looks on the other hand... I discussed my concerns on that in two other threads extensively already. Is it me or both of them have buzz cuts? That'd be a custom Ryder then? Or when they put the helmet on the hair just looks like that? Also his face looks different to me. And well yeah she could be bi as well, I can see it going either way. Everyone's bald when wearing helmet. And faces in general seem to look a bit different when wearing helmet. It's the case with Sara as well.
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Post by readher on Dec 8, 2016 0:30:44 GMT
If we only take people we know about into consideration, then I'd say your assumptions are spot on, except for Jien. If she doesn't end up dying then I think she'll be an option (my bet is on her being bi). Dunno why, just got a feeling. I believe she's here in the trailer: Since it's confirmed that it isn't Sara and Cora wears different armor, it's fairly safe to assume it's her. With that in mind, while their position might be a bit overinterpreted by me, but even given circumstances (something definitely not good happening) it seems a bit intimate? She's kinda leaning on Ryder and all that. Might be just me looking too much into it, but that's how I see it. Hmm but haven't they said none of those are Ryder? I don't know who the man is, and I think that's right upon arrival so they look like they're in a lot of trouble, maybe she fell or something, if it is indeed Jien. If she's a love interest that could be interesting too... Older more experienced commander of everything etc etc falls in love with a young man (I'd bet she'd be a love interest for BroRyder then) Gamble said that it isn't Scott with Sara. Seeing as that trailer featured Scott only and the man's armor is the one Scott wears it's logical to assume it's him. The woman's armor is also the one Jien wears, you can see it in Initiative's videos. And I think she'd be bi. Cora will almost certainly be straight and I don't think they wouldn't give any human female romance for Sara, she's a good candidate for that spot. I'll be happy either way. More options is always better, so long as they're attractive and not bland as hell. Considering her importance though, there's great potential for her personality, so I'm confident on that front. Her looks on the other hand... I discussed my concerns on that in two other threads extensively already.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 23:58:04 GMT
Hmm, I think that: Cora - will be a straight female option for BroRyder. Liam - will be the straight option for SisRyder. Pee Bee - well Asari are pretty much all pansexual right? I think she will be an option for both SisRyder and BroRyder, if she isn't I can see hell being raised! Vetra - Hmm... Hard to say but I think she will be an option for SisRyder because, of course this is just what I think, I'm not sure, but I guess she wouldn't be very popular with the boys, being a bird reptile and all, I think they would prefer someone more human femalish like? And Garrus and Thane were very popular with the girls. Of course, guys go ahead and tell me wrong, this is just my perspective but I can be wrong Drack - I don't think so. Jian - even if she's alive or whatever I don't think she will be an option. Salarian Pilot - Maybe? But as OP said, given Salarian culture dunno how'd work out. Also, options that are from Andromeda. A Kett? Maybe some of those different aliens we saw in the gameplay trailer? And about the romance format, I'm hoping it will be more immersive, with maybe more mentions of it outside of the relationship itself... And it would be cool to have the some characters showing interest first (kind of how Liara does but better). If we only take people we know about into consideration, then I'd say your assumptions are spot on, except for Jien. If she doesn't end up dying then I think she'll be an option (my bet is on her being bi). Dunno why, just got a feeling. I believe she's here in the trailer: Since it's confirmed that it isn't Sara and Cora wears different armor, it's fairly safe to assume it's her. With that in mind, while their position might be a bit overinterpreted by me, but even given circumstances (something definitely not good happening) it seems a bit intimate? She's kinda leaning on Ryder and all that. Might be just me looking too much into it, but that's how I see it.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 22:39:14 GMT
The discussion about Sara went away after few posts though. It isn't the main concern in this thread anymore. I don't see the problem with her as well considering you can change her appearance (aside from FUBAR animations). The concern is that female LIs will once again be way off the traditionally attractive mark. Considering what we had in DA:I and what we've seen so far in Andromeda we have all the reasons to be concerned on how Cora will look, which will probably be the only fully developed human female romance in the game.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 18:39:33 GMT
Not necessarily. BioWARE used to feature attractive females prominently on the box covers as well, like Bastilla and Wu or Ling, and I loved that they shared the promotional artwork a lot more back then. BnS, in additions to the wardrobe and boobs was a joy to play because of the amazing combat and landscape art. SWTOR has just married P2P with the P2W in not a good way (and so did WoW, so far as I can gather), and there are more players on the Revelation boards that are raving about the variety and challenge of the content than the outfits, etc, etc, etc. The myth of the Western games being a bonanza of the equality is imo just a myth. There are no free entertainment, and, tbh, paying the musician is the right thing to do. But, whatever, I know you will just scream you are right because you are right, and everyone else is irrelevant. Yes, BioWare featured attractive females, but the thing is those games had other appeal too - story, gameplay, setting, depth, whatever. Asian MMOs on the other hand don't have any of that. I don't play WoW so I can't comment on that, but SWTOR is hardly P2W. P2P is nothing bad, but SWTOR is F2P actually. Subscription is cheap and gives you everything you need to be competitive. Everything on CC is either obtainable by being sub or cosmetic. Hardly P2W elements. The fact that the game lacks any endgame content is another problem though. They suck at the MMO part, but because of how much money they put into the game they have to milk it some more, so they release single-player story content that you can finish in few hours and you're left with a pointless MMO for another few months. And it's so nice that you put a label on me based on ONE topic where I could provide valid arguments as opposed to the other side. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, doesn't mean all of them are valid. You've got to prove that you're opinion is valid somehow and I presented a lot of evidence backing mine. On the topic of covers, I'm surprised you didn't mention Miranda. She was quite prominent on the cover and unlike Bastilla she wasn't key to the story.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 16:58:21 GMT
It's the unbalanced nose and the shadows around her eyes. When they were making Sara's head it seem that they went really close to the voice actress face, but it did not transfer that well. I guess just like some people are photogenic, some faces render better in 3D than others. Scott's VA's face looks like it was made more handsome by the process, like a retouched black-and-white photo. TBH, I am a bit spooked that it's actors' faces, I'd rather have something from the Character Creator, even at a loss of realism. Funny though that BioWARE markets so different from the Asian MMOs that always slap the pretty girl NPCs and PCs on their promo materials as early as possible. Bio is really tight with info/promos. Who would've thought that a western company making western single-player RPGs is using different marketing technique than asian developers making MMOs /s . Almost every asian MMO is P2W and gameplay is rarely what attracts people to them. They appeal by skimpy clothing for females and pretty characters, locking "best" clothing behind paywall and thus generating tons of money. They're basically cash grabs and nothing more. It's the major difference between western and asian MMO market, where in the former any sort of P2W mechanic is universally bashed, while the latter actually expects such mechanics to be in the game.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 0:34:38 GMT
Yeah, subjective as hell. Go to any attractive women ranking and find me one that has short-haired female in top 10. That's Cassandra down. Who else do we have? Josephine with her Disney romance? She's not unattractive but her personality is in large. There's literally only two female romances for males where one one will only be found attractive by a very small amount of men. There's a reason why most women wear their hair at least chin-length. It's what vast majority of men fond attractive. It stops being subjective opinion when you have, multiple threads popping up where a lot of people (and mind you they're the target of such romances, unlike straight women who suddenly know what men find attractive) share that view. Then it becomes majority's opinion which isn't something to simply shrug off. you really think women only tailor themselves so men can find them attractive? and that's got to be the most shallow way to find a woman to be attractive i think i've ever heard. then again, i'm apparently not bioware's "targetted demographic" so i'm sure they'll care more about your opinion than they do mine. sorry, guys. i'll stop now. Not this again... Do I think women only tailor themselves to be attractive to men? No. Do I think most of them take whether their looks will appeal to men into consideration? Yes. And I don't know what your expectations of attractiveness judgement are. It's a video game, I won't be spending my life with those characters. Looks are the main reason for romancing someone. I won't be having long political discussions with them or taking them to museums. The character has very short time to appeal to player in games and looks work best for that. Sorry to burst your bubble but looks play a big role in attractiveness. I don't see how it's shallow, especially since it's s game, as I mentioned before. You'll probably have an hour of romantic interaction with your LI AT BEST. Hardly enough time for other things than looks taking upper hand in importance. I assume you're a straight woman, so you're BioWare's target demographic for male LIs. How female LIs for males look like shouldn't concern you overly.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 0:23:38 GMT
I was talking about LIs though and Leliana isn't one. As for Cassandra >> my previous post.in I have a question. Is your dislike of Cassandra only or for the most part based on her short hairs? Nah, not's just that. It's the easiest argument that can be backed by data though. Her jaw is weird as well for one and while I'm sure that there are men who find scars attractive, once again it's not what most men look for. Everyone with half a sense knows that.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 0:15:20 GMT
that's an awfully bold and subjective claim. Agree. Both Leliana and Cassandra were hot to me. I was talking about LIs though and Leliana isn't one. As for Cassandra >> my previous post.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 0:11:10 GMT
The moment when "The women are ugly" thread has started to eat other threads... In my defence, I didn't start it here. I feel obliged to defend my point though.
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Post by readher on Dec 7, 2016 0:10:07 GMT
The bulk of the issue is female LIs being unattractive. There's no female in DA:I that looks even half as good as Cullen does (relatively of course). Their designs appeal to minority of men. No one cares much about how non-LI characters look. It's understandable however to want romanceable females be traditionally attractive, especially since straight males are vast majority of players. BW was doing just fine in ME1, ME2 (minus Miranda's wide lower face) and ME3 (minus unnecessary Ashley's rework, but they clearly had good intentions). There's no reason why they changed so much in DA:I, which didn't have any female even remotely traditionally attractive. Also, that might be a Poland thing, but I never had the impression females in most games were overly beautiful. I see multiple woman looking just as good as them every day (minus the bodies maybe) and they're no supermodels, just normal women. As for Sara, as someone pointed out, she's neither beautiful not fugly and I wouldn't call her cute either. She's average, plain so to say. Her facial animations though are atrocious. She looked perfectly fine and viable during that wake-up scene. What I've seen in the latest gameplay though is FUBAR. that's an awfully bold and subjective claim. Yeah, subjective as hell. Go to any attractive women ranking and find me one that has short-haired female in top 10. That's Cassandra down. Who else do we have? Josephine with her Disney romance? She's not unattractive but her personality is in large. There's literally only two female romances for males where one will only be found attractive by a very small amount of men. There's a reason why most women wear their hair at least chin-length. It's what vast majority of men find attractive. It stops being subjective opinion when you have multiple threads popping up where a lot of people (and mind you, they're the target of such romances, not straight women who suddenly know better what men find attractive) share that view. Then it becomes majority's opinion which isn't something to simply shrug off.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 23:48:20 GMT
The femRyder in the last screenshot looks so cute. I have no idea why people are calling her ugly. I mean I know different people have different taste but seriously, even if you don't like that face there is nothing remotely ugly about it. I guess people will complain about anything these days just because they can. If there's one thing certain schools of video game fans - people generally, really - just can't get enough of, it's shitting on women - virtual or otherwise - for the way look. It's always a massive fucking bummer, every time one of these ridiculous 'backlashes' comes around, and they've been going on at least as far back as Dragon Age 2. Some people just seem to find the idea of female characters being designed with the same diversity of appearance as their male counterparts - from traditionally attractive, to average, to 'ugly', and everything in between - offensive, instead preferring that 'homogeneous eyecandy' be the primary and overriding design goal. It's kinda... Men just get to exist, you know? They don't get thread after thread, post after post, made about how they're 'all ugly'. It seems like, for most - though not all - male characters, whether they're 'hot or not' doesn't really come into the design process--their individual aesthetics are based, instead, on what would fit best with their characterisation, and that can be anything from Zaeed's ugly mug to Thane's sexy lizard lips. For women, though, it's incredibly rare - at least, far moreso than with the men - to find a major character who's anything 'less' than the western ideal of beauty, regardless of their characterisation. (For the record, of course there's nothing wrong with wanting to be 'traditionally' beautiful - a woman should be able to look however she bloody well wants - but there should be nothing wrong with not wanting that, either, in games or wherever else, and that's kinda where it seems the bulk of the issue lies at the moment.) I'm actually super glad this seems to be changing, slowly but still significantly, in modern BioWare games. (That said, I totally think Sara's cute, too--I just don't think that should matter as much as some people apparently do.) ... *ahem* Anyways, I'll leave it at that--this could become a rant. There's a whole thread for the discussion of this 'subject', and it's probably better it stays there. The bulk of the issue is female LIs being unattractive. There's no female in DA:I that looks even half as good as Cullen does (relatively of course). Their designs appeal to minority of men. No one cares much about how non-LI characters look. It's understandable however to want romanceable females be traditionally attractive, especially since straight males are vast majority of players. BW was doing just fine in ME1, ME2 (minus Miranda's wide lower face) and ME3 (minus unnecessary Ashley's rework, but they clearly had good intentions). There's no reason why they changed so much in DA:I, which didn't have any female even remotely traditionally attractive. Also, that might be a Poland thing, but I never had the impression females in most games were overly beautiful. I see multiple woman looking just as good as them every day (minus the bodies maybe) and they're no supermodels, just normal women. As for Sara, as someone pointed out, she's neither beautiful not fugly and I wouldn't call her cute either. She's average, plain so to say. Her facial animations though are atrocious. She looked perfectly fine and viable during that wake-up scene. What I've seen in the latest gameplay though is FUBAR.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 15:39:41 GMT
These threads are sometimes best watched rather than participated in It sure saves you nerves
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 15:12:31 GMT
Video-game character, yes. But in a game where characters (at least human ones) are modelled after real ones. As in, the artstyle of human characters aims to represent people as they look in real life. Asian games don't do that. And I didn't insult anyone, not sure where your claim comes from. I just don't understand why people who won't be romancing female characters anyway are the ones that defend their unattractive looks the most. It should be of no concern to them. And once again, I've provided many arguments that support my majority argument. It is others that argue with me that are unable to provide countering one, hence I see no reason not to keep my stance.
Uhm, I suggest considering not summarily calling other men "unhealthy" or ascribing negative qualities to "fangirls" and "feminists", as that what comes across as ugly, and if possible no outright crudity, like cussing. Less drama, less soap box, less "I am right because I am right", less stubborn statements that whatever anyone else is saying is wrong and irrelevant because it is not what you are saying. Just stick to what you love, not what you hate, and you will be surprised how much more cordial and fun chatting will become, and how it will lead to agreement, rather than tension.
You also were the one that have provided statements showing yourself as a someone who disagrees with other males on the matters of attractiveness of the female characters in the videogames, with both Tali and anime.
Being a female gamer does not mean that one won't play a male PC, and romances written for a male PC. Finally, we all will play with the same squad, that has a limited number of characters, so we all are curious what species they are and how they look like. Hence the interest in the female squad mates is perfectly natural from anyone who plans to play Andromeda.
I honestly doubt anyone really wants Cora to look like a-girl-next-door aka Sara (whose face is customizable). Tbh, Sara does have your main prerequisite of feminine beauty, the pony tail. And, yes, I know it's not her hair, it's her face that in this case is under scrutiny.
Again, I am sure Cora will be at least very pretty if not an outright pageant beauty or a slightly more down to earth take on Asian anime.
I never said that what fangirls do (fuss about their LIs) is wrong. I only made a point that it's women that tend to do that and not men. Feminists I already talked a lot about, and I will say negative things about them, because the negativity is valid. I respect early XX century feminists a lot. What it has become nowdays? Not at all. And you're saying I disagree on matter of attractiveness of Tali again, whereas I said few post ago that I consider her fairly attractive myself (as I romanced her) and I think she is a character that majority men would find attractive (due to her traits and body before face reveal, and then her revealed face only expands on that). And you missed the part where I said that while I can consider someone unattractive myself, I can recognize that most men would find her attractive. That's the case with anime. My point about attractive women rankings gives great example of that. I know that just because someone is female it doesn't mean she won't play MC or romance female characters. But most people who will play as male and romance females will be straight males and it will be an overwhelming majority, I can assure you of that. It's only natural said romanceable characters should be attractive to that group first and foremost. And I certainly hope you're true on Cora, because I'm done with not having anyone even remotely attractive to romance in a game from studio which is nowdays known mostly for romance in their games. Seriously, I don't demand top models. As I said before, I meet a lot of women who are universally beautiful every day and they're real, normal women, not some superstars that end up on magazine covers. So why all females BW makes since Inquisition have to be so unattractive. It's not that they're of average beauty and I demand models, it's that they're straight up unattractive for a large majority. I'm not overly picky, I almost always find someone to romance in any game featuring it, yet I didn't romance anyone in Inquisition, a game from a studio that probably puts the most focus on romance in all the industry, and neither did any of my friends. It was a precedence and unless Cora turns out to be good looking Andromeda will continue the trend.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 14:09:05 GMT
My tastes in real women, yes. Asian games with their anime-style graphics are hardly representation of that. There are many REAL asian women I find attractive. Your argument is equal to saying "well, most women find muscular men attractive, surely they're attracted to a 10m tall bag of muscular meat character from Tekken as well". Again, irrelevant. I thought we were discussing of what Cora would look like? Aka a video-game character? An animated toon?
All I really hope to see is that you go easy on the majority argument and stop trying to pre-emptively insult everyone who you think might disagree with what you personally want, the boys, the fangirls, the feminists, etc. If you just spoke for yourself, and did not try to belittle others, I'd totally emphasize with your deepest heart desire for Cora to have pony tail, red-gold hair, sizable bosom and big luminous eyes, or whatever else is that you wish she looks like. Post pictures, whatever. But talk for yourself, please, and try to be kinder to others.
Video-game character, yes. But in a game where characters (at least human ones) are modelled after real ones. As in, the artstyle of human characters aims to represent people as they look in real life. Asian games don't do that. And I didn't insult anyone, not sure where your claim comes from. I just don't understand why people who won't be romancing female characters anyway are the ones that defend their unattractive looks the most. It should be of no concern to them. And once again, I've provided many arguments that support my majority argument. It is others that argue with me that are unable to provide countering one, hence I see no reason not to keep my stance.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 13:56:49 GMT
I can't believe you're doing it again. I pointed out that I HATE them, not that I think majority of men will find women in asian games unattractive. You're once again twisting words to suit your agenda. I can find someone unattractive but at the same time recognize that most men would find her attractive, something you apparently can't grasp. But you said that your tastes in women represent the majority of men? So, how can you find unattractive something that most men find attractive? My tastes in real women, yes. Asian games with their anime-style graphics are hardly representation of that. There are many REAL asian women I find attractive. Your argument is equal to saying "well, most women find muscular men attractive, surely they're attracted to a 10m tall bag of muscular meat character from Tekken as well". Again, irrelevant.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 13:50:01 GMT
I swear, holding myself back is getting harder and harder with every post that misinterprets what I say in the author's favor. I said it already, but you seemed to miss it, so I'll say it again. We're in a thread about FEMALE love interests for MALE players being ugly. With that in mind, let's adress your post. Why should feminists by interested in what female LIs for male players look like? They won't be the ones romancing them. They should focus on what men will look like since they'll be romacing them. I'll leave lesbians out, because they'll obviously be romancing females as well, but it will be a small number of feminists, which is in turn already small number of females overall. Then we have fangirls. Please, tell me where I said fangirls have tastes that do not match yours. In fact, they do, because they're romancing MEN and not WOMEN. I only mentioned fangirls, because women tend to fuss about LIs in games more, be it by forum threads, or fanart. They were only mentioned to counter ridiculous and irrelevant argument of Solas being popular, so it's not always attractive females that are most popular. Well, duh, Solas is popular among WOMEN, and we're talking about who's most popular for MEN. And last, few posts ago I actually said that Tali has traits that most men would find attractive. I even romanced her myself. I never said males who find her attractive are unhealthy. I said that the unusual amount of discussion resolving around her on forums is a becaue of some men with unhealthy mentality. You're twisting my words, whether on purpose or not I will probably never know, but I'm really getting tired of that. And finally, I hate Japanese/Asian games (and anime and all that stuff as well for that matter), their aesthetics especially. The only exception is Lineage 2, simply because it's an amazing MMO. That means I won't take up on your recommendation. You hate the females characters in the Asian games too, not just BioWARE/Obsi's games? A lot of people, including a copious number of males love it. Again, males are not a monolith group as far as their tastes go, and you keep actually presenting yourself as, well, a minority. Which I find ironic.
I can't believe you're doing it again. I pointed out that I HATE them, not that I think majority of men will find women in asian games unattractive. You're once again twisting words to suit your agenda. I can find someone unattractive but at the same time recognize that most men would find her attractive, something you apparently can't grasp.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 13:37:38 GMT
I'm just tired of saying the same thing over and over again because my posts are being misinterpreted (and considering how many times I already elaborated on the points constantly being raised, I'm fairly sure it's on purpose) and straight females arguing with me that they know better what straight men find attractive, especially when I provide many arguments that support my stance, as opposed to irrelevant arguments or none at all coming from the other side. Just look at any ranking of females online and tell me how many short-haired women are there (spoiler alert: there will be none). Of course there will be few people in the comments saying that they don't actually find x or y attractive, but there's a very high chance that p, q, r and z will still appeal to them. That's because they're all in universally attractive group, which will appeal to MAJORITY of men. Why would they make all women look so that they will only appeal to small minorities of men, especially since whether you like it or not straight males are still a large majority of all players, even in BioWare games.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 13:17:36 GMT
Solas example was meant to prove that my proof is inaccurate? We're in a thread about women being ugly in games. I make an argument that the most discussed women and the ones with most fan content are always attractive and your counter-argument is fucking Solas thread. That's like being in a discussion about trucks not being discussed much and saying "Not true!!! Look at this Supra thread!!!". It's completely irrelevant to this discussion. And the part about fangirling is simply true. As was said before, it's usually women that make fanart of their LIs and also, as I mentioned before, tend to discuss them more. If you can't accept facts then you're delusional. And yes, I made Tali an exception because she is one. If you have ~30 LIs from various games and all of their discussions aren't matching Tali's then she's clearly something unusual and hence an exception. I have certain suspicions on why she's so popular but I'm afraid I won't be able to share them since they would probably get many people angry. Least to say it has to do with sociology and a very popular (and unhealthy) mentality of many young men and boys nowdays. And of course you're jumping to extremes again, trying to be funny, attempting to ridicule me indirectly. It won't work though, rest assured. I just said to just give it a thought and that there might be some truth in it. As for your examples, they all had their reasons for happening. Usually mostly invalid, but there was always at least a bit of truth to them, especially if you were willing to look from a broader point of view, of which you're clearly uncapable judging by your reactions to my posts. So, now we have feminists, fangirls, many unhealthy young men and boys as having tastes in women in video games that do not exactly match yours. Your majority is becoming less pronounced in your posts. And, again, trying to qualify negatively every other gamer does not really make you sympathetic. Really, do try Blade and Soul, I think you will have a blast in Cinderlands. I swear, holding myself back is getting harder and harder with every post that misinterprets what I say in the author's favor. I said it already, but you seemed to miss it, so I'll say it again. We're in a thread about FEMALE love interests for MALE players being ugly. With that in mind, let's adress your post. Why should feminists by interested in what female LIs for male players look like? They won't be the ones romancing them. They should focus on what men will look like since they'll be romacing them. I'll leave lesbians out, because they'll obviously be romancing females as well, but it will be a small number of feminists, which is in turn already small number of females overall. Then we have fangirls. Please, tell me where I said fangirls have tastes that do not match yours. In fact, they do, because they're romancing MEN and not WOMEN. I only mentioned fangirls, because women tend to fuss about LIs in games more, be it by forum threads, or fanart. They were only mentioned to counter ridiculous and irrelevant argument of Solas being popular, so it's not always attractive females that are most popular. Well, duh, Solas is popular among WOMEN, and we're talking about who's most popular for MEN. And last, few posts ago I actually said that Tali has traits that most men would find attractive. I even romanced her myself. I never said males who find her attractive are unhealthy. I said that the unusual amount of discussion resolving around her on forums is a becaue of some men with unhealthy mentality. You're twisting my words, whether on purpose or not I will probably never know, but I'm really getting tired of that. And finally, I hate Japanese/Asian games (and anime and all that stuff as well for that matter), their aesthetics especially. The only exception is Lineage 2, simply because it's an amazing MMO. That means I won't take up on your recommendation.
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Post by readher on Dec 6, 2016 8:04:11 GMT
I don't see how Solas is of any relevancy here when we're talking about female LIs for straight males. You should also know that ROs for females have usually more "traffic" since they're much more likely to discuss them and fangirl over them than men who usually experiance romance in-game, MAYBE leave a comment or two on what how it was and what they think about it and leave it at that (with Tali being an exception for some reason, her threads were ridiculously large). As for asari, they're not human so it's hardly a fair comparison. I'd argue they would look stupid if they had any sort hair because of how different they are. And it's not just my opinion that majority of men don't like short hair. It's a fact. There's a reason why most young women wear their hair at least at chin length. It's what most males are attracted to. As for that anti-femminist narrative, don't you think that if it's been used for so long and successfully, if I might say so, that there might be at least some truth to it? Just a thought you should take. Solas example was a prove of what you said was inaccurate. Then you have changed your narrative and you told me we girl talk too much about love interests fangirling. Then you say Tali is an exception. I don't know what to say because it seems whatever I tell you, you will say I'm wrong because it doesn't adjust of what you expected. I think you are the first person who says the Asari are too different to be mistaken for a human. Now I'm impressed. By the way, Jack was another interesting love interest. She was beautiful and bald. And when I say beautiful, I refer to all her precious face. Yeah, of course! Anti-femminist narrative it's been used for so long because it's right! As slavery! As murder! As Oppression? As MagevsTemplars! Solas example was meant to prove that my proof is inaccurate? We're in a thread about women being ugly in games. I make an argument that the most discussed women and the ones with most fan content are always attractive and your counter-argument is fucking Solas thread. That's like being in a discussion about trucks not being discussed much and saying "Not true!!! Look at this Supra thread!!!". It's completely irrelevant to this discussion. And the part about fangirling is simply true. As was said before, it's usually women that make fanart of their LIs and also, as I mentioned before, tend to discuss them more. If you can't accept facts then you're delusional. And yes, I made Tali an exception because she is one. If you have ~30 LIs from various games and all of their discussions aren't matching Tali's then she's clearly something unusual and hence an exception. I have certain suspicions on why she's so popular but I'm afraid I won't be able to share them since they would probably get many people angry. Least to say it has to do with sociology and a very popular (and unhealthy) mentality of many young men and boys nowdays. And of course you're jumping to extremes again, trying to be funny, attempting to ridicule me indirectly. It won't work though, rest assured. I just said to just give it a thought and that there might be some truth in it. As for your examples, they all had their reasons for happening. Usually mostly invalid, but there was always at least a bit of truth to them, especially if you were willing to look from a broader point of view, of which you're clearly uncapable judging by your reactions to my posts.
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Post by readher on Dec 5, 2016 23:44:07 GMT
I validate my opinion by claiming it represents majority because it's true. Look which female love interests are mostly talked about, which get the most of fanfiction and attention. They all fall under universally attractive categories I listed. I have no idea what parkour type female is. As for flowing locks, I prefer ponytails or buns since it's a military setting so it's only fitting. Flowing locks should be left for off-duty. Short hair isn't what majority of men like, you need to understand that. It's a fact and that I'm sure even men who like short-haired women will concede. And the LI can be ahead of my hero for what I care, not sure how it's any relevant (aside from the fact she'd be the one to get shat on should fraternization be discovered). Your LI being nice to you is something you'd expect from someone you're romacing though, no? So I don't see how it's anything special to demand. Would you be romantically involved with someone who isn't nice to you? I doubt it. If my actions as a player anger her, then fine, she obviously has her own values. If she's outright hostile to me for no reason I have no reason to romance her at all though, just like in real life. Whatever feminist say nowdays I won't be able to take seriously, because of ridiculous problems they have. Oh no, you can also play as Corvo in Dishonored 2 as opposed to only Amy, clearly they couldn't go full-on with feminism because they're afraid. These are actual words feminist says and it's laughable to say the least. It's clear that feminist movement shifted to a wrong direction somewhere along the road. Few decades ago they were fighting against abortion seeing it as a tool of control and now they're defending it to death. Such a radical shift in one movement isn't normal. "female love interests are mostly talked about, which get the most of fanfiction and attention." One name: SOLAS (176 pages in this forum) [look at this forum, look at DevianArt... female love interests are not necessarily the mostly talked about] "Short hair isn't what majority of men like, you need to understand that." That's your personal opinion easily to refute: ASARI (hairless) "It's clear that feminist movement shifted to a wrong direction somewhere along the road." This quote comes from 1910 1962 1975 1987 1995 2016 (basically it's the typical antifeminist narrative SINCE ALWAYS ) I don't see how Solas is of any relevancy here when we're talking about female LIs for straight males. You should also know that ROs for females have usually more "traffic" since they're much more likely to discuss them and fangirl over them than men who usually experiance romance in-game, MAYBE leave a comment or two on what how it was and what they think about it and leave it at that (with Tali being an exception for some reason, her threads were ridiculously large). As for asari, they're not human so it's hardly a fair comparison. I'd argue they would look stupid if they had any sort hair because of how different they are. And it's not just my opinion that majority of men don't like short hair. It's a fact. There's a reason why most young women wear their hair at least at chin length. It's what most males are attracted to. As for that anti-femminist narrative, don't you think that if it's been used for so long and successfully, if I might say so, that there might be at least some truth to it? Just a thought you should take.
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Post by readher on Dec 5, 2016 22:57:42 GMT
readher has a narrative in mind that he wants fulfilled. He wants parkour type female li with flowing locks that is half a step behind his hero, and is nice to him. He misconstrues feminism as a variety of phobias about gender roles, that, granted are often taken out of proportion on the net. But what is not? I would only say that in my view, a feminist does not begrudge other woman a superlative quality such as beauty, and any way to self-fulfill, such as a relationship with a man or a woman. The women that are portrayed as rejecting men is not a narrative that one subscribe lightly to, no less so than despising women or being entirely misanthropic. If he did not try to validate his opinion by claiming it represents that of a majority, and toned down the rhetoric some, it would be no different than really what most folks do like -a cool love interest that is visually appealing to them personally. No big deal, and understandable. I validate my opinion by claiming it represents majority because it's true. Look which female love interests are mostly talked about, which get the most of fanfiction and attention. They all fall under universally attractive categories I listed. I have no idea what parkour type female is. As for flowing locks, I prefer ponytails or buns since it's a military setting so it's only fitting. Flowing locks should be left for off-duty. Short hair isn't what majority of men like, you need to understand that. It's a fact and that I'm sure even men who like short-haired women will concede. And the LI can be ahead of my hero for what I care, not sure how it's any relevant (aside from the fact she'd be the one to get shat on should fraternization be discovered). Your LI being nice to you is something you'd expect from someone you're romacing though, no? So I don't see how it's anything special to demand. Would you be romantically involved with someone who isn't nice to you? I doubt it. If my actions as a player anger her, then fine, she obviously has her own values. If she's outright hostile to me for no reason I have no reason to romance her at all though, just like in real life. Whatever feminist say nowdays I won't be able to take seriously, because of ridiculous problems they have. Oh no, you can also play as Corvo in Dishonored 2 as opposed to only Amy, clearly they couldn't go full-on with feminism because they're afraid. These are actual words feminist says and it's laughable to say the least. It's clear that feminist movement shifted to a wrong direction somewhere along the road. Few decades ago they were fighting against abortion seeing it as a tool of control and now they're defending it to death. Such a radical shift in one movement isn't normal.
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Post by readher on Dec 5, 2016 21:43:06 GMT
What you fail to understand though, is that males never have any problem with guys having muscles they'll probably never even see in ther lifetime, let alone achieve themselves. Neither do they have a problem with very handsome faces. Various games from various genres had such characters since late 90s and no one cried because of this. It is only lately when it comes to females that the argument "not every female is a model" or "beauty is subjective" or "not all women need to look like barbies" came into play. Games are meant to be jump away from reality. If I am to romance women in games, I want them to be attractive. I honestly see more attractive women during one day at my university than I've seen during my whole DA:I playthrough (and I'm studying IT mind you, not a lot of females here). It literally serves no purpose. To whom making females unattractive appeal to? Straight women won't romance them anyways, and I can't imagine lesbians being happy that women are unattractive. So please, tell me, what purpose does making female characters unattractive serves? No one wants to romance someone with mental traits of a barbie doll. There's a reason why Lara Croft's character is very popular amongst men. She was strong, capable, could take care of herself but at the same time was attractive (both in games, relative to graphic capabilities of course and in movies) and didn't shoo away every men because "muh strong independent woman, I don't need a man". I can't imagine many people want to romance a plastic doll either, but you're of course jumping to extremes as anyone who lacks arguments. No one asks BioWare to make females look like from porn-like Skyrim mods. They can do attractive and fairly realistic (considering it's a game) female characters just fine, as history proves. It is only as of late that they decide against doing so. Take any movie. Take any comic. Take any videogame. You will find attractive men. Average men. Old men. Young men. Men with glasses. Muscle men. Skinny but pretty intelligent men. Gross men. A good-looking man who is the protagonist. Or maybe he looks like a normal guy but he is different, he has something special. Maybe he doesn't know that yet, but probably he will find out. The same movie has a hot girl who is the love interest of the protagonist. Maybe there is another one who is average good looking. Maybe there is no more women in the movie because it's very distracting (they are defined by their sex and sex appeal rather than by a narrative purpose). Also, it's very funny you mention the "Strong Independent Woman, I don't Need a Man" as a feminist thing when feminist DESPISE that poor narrative (this maybe interests you: www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/18/why-strong-female-characters-are-bad-for-women/ ) I don't know what you meant to achieve with your comment, because I agree with it mostly (the first part at least). My comment was counter-argument to men supposedly wanting barbie-minded characters. I stated that it clearly isn't the case and gave Lara Croft as an example. She's anything but barbie-minded, so are Ashley, Morrigan and other characters very popular among men. What I'm against is the new definition of "strong" woman, whereas she suddenly doesn't let men close to her, because she doesn't need them. Said women in movies usually take part in the story somehow. I can only say about action movies, since I don't really watch others, but the woman is either as capable as the man in fighting or she helps him by giving intel or she's his so called anchor to the "good side", because he feels he's becoming a bad man due to how many people he kills and he keeps him from "falling". They almost always serve a purpose and if they don't it's usually because of a bad scenario or a character is simply written that way for story reasons. Also, action movies are, well - action oriented, and it's still men that usually find themselves in jobs involving it, so it's no wonder there are usually more men than women in such movies, seeing as they focus on fighting and shooting scenes. As for the second part, don't even get me started on this. Every time I mention something feminists say there's someone saying they actually don't like that or don't mean that. I can still remember the whole outrage about Dying Light, because Jade Aldemir is kidnapped at some point and you have to rescure her and how it was promoting damsel in distress trope and undermining strong women, nevermind the fact that she's actually a very strong character throughout the whole game. Hell, she even sacrifaces herself for you.
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