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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 14:20:00 GMT
well no one is stopping you from gushing, you are attempting however to stop people from criticizing MEA especially in regards to a comparable RPG game It's not comparable. It is radically different in its structure. Solo game with a fixed protagonist vs a party-based game with a flexible protagonist. It is a HUGE difference in design and resource allocation. Some aspects are similar, such as quests. Maybe if people di dnot downplay the things that Andromeda does both differently and better than the witcher it would be easier to engage in a discussion. But when I tried to highlight how important it is that Liam is there with you from Day 1 of the game, that you actually have to build rapport with him before you engage into his Quest discussed in the article, people say things like: Well, it did not matter to me, because Keira spoke to me on the radio and it was an equivalent companionship banter/jokes. Actually, the article writer does not even compare Keira to Liam. He compares it to SAM, a game-convenience device to help a player along. Of course it has a NEUTRAl tone, it is there for the whole game, and has to be as non-irritating and neutral as possible. Keira on the radio is one-quest person, she can have as much personality as they want to add, and it will come in a short burst, a sprint. A side-quest NPC is always a sprint, a companion writing is for a marathon. Witcher may be praised for what it does include, but it is not criticized for what it's missing, while with the Andromeda it is only criticized for what it's missing They have more similarities than differences. They are both story driven RPG's, that (in BioWare's case supposedly) draw from strong secondary characters to round out mediocre main storylines, lean heavily on side missions to pad out the runtime of the game as well to worldbuild and characterize, they often emphasize themes of ostracism, grey morality, and so on. BioWare increasingly is defining their main characters and not providing us with true blank slates. They both feature romances between the player character and side characters, of varying levels of involvement. The two series do these things in different ways, but they remain fundamentally similar games. If you want me to criticize Andromeda for the garbage that we got as well as the stuff we missed out on, I will oblige.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 14:14:44 GMT
Yeah, but this is a totally different thing. Steve's story is trope-y as fuck. It's right in the "Bury your gays" wheelhouse and it's firmly planted in the "Carth Syndrome" area. But it's not a "gay story". Those are two different things. I think this is what I don't understand. It sound as if the only way that people will consider a gay character to not be a 'gay story" is if we avoid all mention of sexuality and avoid all tropes that are even tangentially related to gay tropes. And then what are we left with? A character that makes no references to his sexuality and only is involved in non-trope-y story-critical content? I mean, that's great in and of itself and I'd support characters like that 100%. But it's such a narrow window that that will eventually become the "gay trope" because it's what all gay characters would become. I guess why I don't understand this is because I genuinely don't see anything wrong with exploring some common "tropes" with gay characters. I don't want that to be the only thing that happens (and they are pretty close to that now). But I don't think it's such a terrible thing to explore those stories. Dorian's story is the most "gay", but if you really look at it, it's actually about duty to family over self-fulfillment. Which is one of the most classic fantasy story types that there is. You actually could make some very minor changes to the story (Dorian could be into non-human women and his father disapproved since their children - if they could even have them - wouldn't be magisters and he could use Blood Magic to make Dorian fall for a human magister woman instead). It's basically the same story and it's not at all gay. Yes, there's an added layer of "My parents don't approve of my sexuality" which is super gay. But it's not 100% only a gay story, like people try to make it out to be. Gil's story is also not a "gay story", really. Sure, there's the very very uncomfortable "Do your duty as a man and reproduce" thing that was awful for gay guys to have to sit through. And Jill is just about the haggiest fag hag that's ever hagged. And their relationship is that very traditional toxic fag & hag story. But the actual content of his story isn't really a "gay" story. Outside of him just being gay. I think people are just lumping all "tropes" that happen in gay stories with being a 'gay story' and, frankly, they just aren't the same thing in my opinion. What I would LOVE to hear is what people would want to see. We hear a lot about what people don't want in these stories, but very little about what they DO want. I mean, this is just pedantry of the highest order. "There's nothing INHERENTLY gay about these stories, they are just entirely about being gay, and the issues that stem from being gay." Honestly, if you presented me with these plotlines, changed as you have described, I would probably assume they were still "about" homosexuality, or at least drawing inspiration from homosexual issues, just like X-Men 2 does. ("Have you tried... NOT being a mutant?"). I've told BioWare what I want, many, many times, and they didn't listen. It's really quite simple. I want to be a badass who sucks cocks in outer space, and I want my space boyfriend to also be a badass. Sexuality should be incidental, and there's no requirement that it "make sense" (everytime they use this phrase, it raises a red flag). Instead of BioWare condescendingly trying to teach me that gay men can also be heroes, they could just, I dunno, actually show gay men being heroes? I'm beginning to think you've not actually played these games
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 14:06:01 GMT
are you just insecure to comparisons between the two games? Its perfectly valid to compare BioWare's games with other flagship series that offer similar experiences. It's valid to comparem but if people mostly want to talk about the Witcher, Witcher forum is kindda better than Andromeda's. Nobody here is seriously hijacking threads to discuss the Witcher in isolation from BioWare games
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 14:03:44 GMT
well no one is stopping you from gushing, you are attempting however to stop people from criticizing MEA especially in regards to a comparable RPG game
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 14:01:36 GMT
Dom you do know that Witcher isn't just playing as Geralt right?. Ciri who is insanely powerful is like a daughter to him. The whole game is about him tracking her down. But you play as Ciri as well to learn what happened even after they meet up she is the one you kill the crones with. She also saves the world and trust me she is a beautiful looker who loves both men and women in her story side. Witcher 3 you play as a male (Geralt) (Father figure) and female (Ciri). So, why do you people do not start with THAT? Now, I am more interested. How long do you play as Ciri and what are her male LIs? is there a screenshot with her portrait and male LIs? What are male LIs like? Can I play the whole game as her? You play her for limited periods of time to flesh out her events in the story, while they are present they are much more limited in scope and size than anything you do with Geralt. She can flirt with at least one guy, but due to the nature of her story (as well as her own sexual orientation lesbian or bi) nothing comes of it.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 13:58:56 GMT
are you just insecure to comparisons between the two games? Its perfectly valid to compare BioWare's games with other flagship series that offer similar experiences.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 13:55:56 GMT
"I don't like the Witcher and I'm not going to play it to verify the things I say about it, arguments about my ability to properly discuss elements of the game be damned" the vibe I'm getting from a lot of posters here. Indeed.
I mean, it's an entirely legitimate decision, but making decisive claims about a game without playing it is a shaky concept at best.
What isn't just downright shaky, but flat out wrong is when they start spreading blatant falsehoods, such as "you only play as Geralt" or "all missions end with sex"
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 13:54:27 GMT
I've seen enough complaints about LGBT representation in media to see that their stories do end in tragedy more often that not.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 13:44:34 GMT
"I don't like the Witcher and I'm not going to play it to verify the things I say about it, arguments about my ability to properly discuss elements of the game be damned"
the vibe I'm getting from a lot of posters here.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 2:01:15 GMT
I would say MEA is definitely worse than DA:I
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 1:48:40 GMT
You know, CDPR actually released 16 DLCs for free and 2 paid DLCs with a lot of content? I mean A LOT of content. Not just one or two hour but actually 20-25 hours of gametime content with actual story. Just a thing about those 16 DLC's, many of them are small things like New Game+ which many games normally ship standard and the rest is so small if any other company did that people would just accused them of cutting content out to put back in later for free praise and goodwill. Also you can't really compare the DLC's because CDPR never had to release DLC on 360 or PS3 which has size restrictions/caps on there DLC which limited what developers could do, they later found workarounds by splitting the DLC into parts but that is more expensive since they need to certify each part. Once we got into PS4/XOne territory DLC had the file size restrictions were removed allowing for larger DLC Packs. Didn't BW not make DLC for the old console generation?
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 1:21:49 GMT
I tried to play The Witcher 3 but couldn't finish it. It does seem like it's mainly catered to men. A male acquaintance of mine (a man in his late 40's) said 'I killed that bitch (Keira Metz) after I fucked her ass' with such savagery in his voice that just turned me off the game completely. I can't get behind a game that brings out the worst in people. I come across victims of domestic violence at work and that one just cuts too close to the bone.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 1:13:14 GMT
Someday, you'll be on BSN as long as me and you too will become the bitter jaded mess you see before you. Dropping snark and shitposting to feel something. Its really the only way to live. pfft you can't be that jaded, Mr. Teetotaler
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 1:07:49 GMT
I'm not referring to anything that happened today or recently but from a week or so back, maybe more, not gonna lie I didn't write down the date I don't know what was said to you about Jill. I'm sure people disagreed that she was great. The majority of people, even Gil fans, don't like her. If you're the founder and sole member of the official Jill Fan Club, then I feel for you even if I think her character is a steaming pile of trash. I'm not going to dramatically declare no straight men deserve to get their preferred LIs or that any character is ruined by being straight now, since you, Steelcan, disagreed with me about Jill. That's the difference between having a strong disagreement and just being an asshole. not saying I'm part of the Jill fanclub, its probably competing for the fewest members with Jacob's fanclub. But there merest defense of her role in Gil's storyline was enough to prompt accusations of bigotry on my part.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 1:03:33 GMT
I'm not referring to anything that happened today or recently but from a week or so back, maybe more, not gonna lie I didn't write down the date >not keeping detailed records of all arguments You fucking casual. It was late April 11/early April 12. what do I know, I'm just an empty head *ba dum tss*
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:59:36 GMT
Maker forbid I don't agree that Jill is the worst thing to happen to gay romances since they first appeared in video games Nobody was talking about Jill, idk what to tell you, bro. I'm not referring to anything that happened today or recently but from a week or so back, maybe more, not gonna lie I didn't write down the date
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:52:56 GMT
And people have said some nasty shit here. I can understand why some people don't like entering this thread because of the environment here, and same goes for the Jaal thread. I would like to ask everyone to stop being nasty to each other and all get along, but I know it'd be a fruitless effort. No, I'm not accepting this "it's all just as bad" line of argument. It's not. Responding to being told we don't deserve better LIs and being treated like shit isn't the same as treating them like shit. I'm not going to pretend it's all the same some we can create some negative peace. If people feel uncomfortable with being told we notice their low key homophobia and don't accept it, great. I hope they're uncomfortable. Maker forbid I don't agree that Jill is the worst thing to happen to gay romances since they first appeared in video games
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:49:52 GMT
I mean I'm sure they feel the same about this thread Again, of course not everyone is responsible, but this thread doesn't exactly roll out the red carpet This thread is friendly for everyone unless they start calling people names. I feel safe here and I'm glad I can talk to literally everyone here. So long as you toe the party line
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:45:42 GMT
Literally the first thing I saw when I clicked on the Jaal thread was somebody's temper tantrum about how gays didn't deserve him, so anyone with this gaslighting shit can fuck right off. We left before we even knew Jaal's sexuality because it's been toxic as fuck for m/m players over there. I'm pretty much done sugar coating it. Sure, not everyone over there is responsible, but the environment is what it is. Don't pretend people haven't said some seriously nasty shit over there and it's all on us. I mean I'm sure they feel the same about this thread Again, of course not everyone is responsible, but this thread doesn't exactly roll out the red carpet
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:34:56 GMT
Many people forgot that it was certainly not a full studio working for five years on MEA, Bioware montreal worked to make ME 3 multiplayer dlc and Omega dlc, that ended I believe in february 28 of 2013. the full team was not working on this game for 5 years, at best it was for four. adding to that the tons of creator who left during production, the development of this game was completely chaothic and troubled production can destroy many products, not just games but movies, series, etc. There is not one specific people to blame in these types of case, sometimes it just sucks that there is too many things that happen at the wrong time. By the way many people loves to innocent EA saying that "oh bioware had 5 years so that is their fault", sorry to tell you that is still the job of EA to publish the game, they knew that Mass effect andromeda was not as good as it should have been and they still decided to release it. And if they did not knew about the products they were selling, well that means they are incompetent. EA should have seen that the game needed more polish, they should have seen that it needed more time, its the fucking job of EA to see that the game needs more development because they are the one selling it, its their job to look into that before they sell it to the consumer. Development on MEA is said to have begun directly after ME3 finished, with half the team working on ME3 DLC and the other half on Andromeda. The problem is that extending production more would have rapidly increased the costs of development
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:33:04 GMT
I'm not a huge fan of the restricted power hotkeys and the profile system overall
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:21:46 GMT
indeed it did, was tempted to go after Reyes as well tbh >.> 5 people in 1 game? Your Ryder's slutty :-P might as well enjoy my cake given that I can eat it
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:14:45 GMT
Cora, plus the FWB with Peebee, and Avela and Keri did that give u 3-romances achiv? indeed it did, was tempted to go after Reyes as well tbh >.>
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 20, 2017 0:01:08 GMT
Well I've finished the game and looked up on YT the romance content I didn't see first hand, gotta say pretty disappointed overall :/ so who did u actually romance in your playthrough? :-P Cora, plus the FWB with Peebee, and Avela and Keri
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 19, 2017 23:59:34 GMT
someone enlighten me as to what a fair weather ally is
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