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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 3:21:55 GMT
Prove to me it was manipulation and not Gil coming to his own conclusion to a point his friend raised. The repetitive nature of it? I don't find that particularly convinving I don't need to prove you, what I feel about this. Perhaps, I'm hypersensitive. And the others too. A curious defense I must admit. "I don't need proof, my feelings are enough"
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 3:20:01 GMT
Let's ignore all the stuff before and focus on that last line. We can say that Jill's constant reminders and ribbing can be due to the sarcastic and slightly disrespectful of their relationship, we can agree that is a valid interpretation no? All that last line from Gil indicates is that Jill has opened up a possibility he hadn't considered before it does not confirm that his change in approach is due to peer pressure any more than it is due to his own indpendent conclusions to an issue his friend raised. These things happen all the time between friends. But all the stuff before (which is the bulk of Gil's story content BTW) is how I came to my conclusion and why I find it problematic. Looking at it in a vacuum, sure you could say that he came up with the idea to have a baby by himself, but IMO there is less evidence to support that than there is evidence against it...which would be all the stuff that you said we should ignore. Yet all the evidence for both sides comes down to interpretation of previous lines, examining tone, and inference.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 3:16:10 GMT
Let's ignore all the stuff before and focus on that last line. We can say that Jill's constant reminders and ribbing can be due to the sarcastic and slightly disrespectful of their relationship, we can agree that is a valid interpretation no? All that last line from Gil indicates is that Jill has opened up a possibility he hadn't considered before it does not confirm that his change in approach is due to peer pressure any more than it is due to his own indpendent conclusions to an issue his friend raised. These things happen all the time between friends. If they are true friend: they do not manipulate each other constantly. I suppose. Prove to me it was manipulation and not Gil coming to his own conclusion to a point his friend raised. The repetitive nature of it? I don't find that particularly convinving
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 3:12:38 GMT
I'm just waiting for Cloud9 to show up
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 3:05:22 GMT
honestly I think a lot of people here are projecting their own issues with reproduction on this situation. (combined with an inclination to give BioWare no benefit of the doubt) As far as I can tell, Gil and Jill's relationship was meant to be mutually joking about Gil's desire to settle down and start a family. BioWare possibly missed the mark with making sure everyone got that, but that's really as far as I'm willing to go. Gil: I DON"T KNOW. THAT'S NEVER BEEN A THING FOR ME.
No one will ever convince me that Gil was not influenced by Jill to have a child because she was constantly telling him that he wasn't "Doing his duty as a man". Let's ignore all the stuff before and focus on that last line. We can say that Jill's constant reminders and ribbing can be due to the sarcastic and slightly disrespectful of their relationship, we can agree that is a valid interpretation no? All that last line from Gil indicates is that Jill has opened up a possibility he hadn't considered before it does not confirm that his change in approach is due to peer pressure any more than it is due to his own indpendent conclusions to an issue his friend raised. These things happen all the time between friends.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:46:09 GMT
so what I'm gathering is that Avela and Keri are more along the lines of Kelly in ME2 or whatshername reporter in ME3 rather than fully fledged romances, a few lines and a small scene, but definitely not on par with the main romances.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:42:44 GMT
does Avela get more than the flirt options of dialogue? That's all I've seen of her. She does. Ryder can kiss her by a waterfall if you complete all of her fetch quests. would that be her romance culmination? ie no sex scene or implied sex scene?
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:39:26 GMT
does Avela get more than the flirt options of dialogue? That's all I've seen of her.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:38:50 GMT
honestly I think a lot of people here are projecting their own issues with reproduction on this situation. (combined with an inclination to give BioWare no benefit of the doubt) As far as I can tell, Gil and Jill's relationship was meant to be mutually joking about Gil's desire to settle down and start a family. BioWare possibly missed the mark with making sure everyone got that, but that's really as far as I'm willing to go. We wouldn't need to project if Bioware had executed Jill in a way that wasn't calling back to homophobic arguments that we have to hear IRL. I know what it's supposed to be. The issue is that, to a lot of LGBT people, it doesn't come off that way because of homophobic arguments we're familiar with or at the very least clumsy writing, if you're not willing to acknowledge the homophobia. If they're meant to be writing the gay guy for the gay people, then yeah you better make sure that LGBT people aren't going to be hearing the same homophobic arguments we hear again and again about why we shouldn't exist. Lord knows I'm ok with saying BioWare can miss the mark with clumsy writing. I don't think clumsily missing the mark and tone deaf are the same thing though.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:37:32 GMT
I mean that line is open to interpretation. Personally it came off to me as dry and sarcastic but not altogether serious You know, Gil's thing. You don't seem to be understanding. Sarcasm may be Gil's thing but it's an act. It's not indicative of his personality. Lexi tells you this at the very start of the game. Someone can use sarcasm and dry humor as a deflecting method and still fundamentally be sincere in using on occasion. Anyways, I'd argue that its a mask for his deep seated desire to settle down, be it with Ryder in a relationship or with his kid and Jill. Either way they are both Gil's choice and not one that is being forced upon him.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:31:47 GMT
Is there anything about Gil himself that you find tone deaf? The fact that he wants to raise a kid with his best friend? I feel that people are determined to make this an issue about peer pressure and pressuring Gil into a relationship, which he clearly is ok with. If you want to argue that this serves as a message that is harmful, please do so, but don't wrap up Gil's character in it. You're being obtuse. People are explaining over and over why exactly it's tone deaf in the context of being gay, and you're essentially misinterpreting our arguments over and over to make it into us not being happy about him getting a family. If you don't understand, after people explaining it over and over again, why this is tone-deaf, then you'll never be able to understand our experiences and why Gil's storyline is poorly executed. honestly I think a lot of people here are projecting their own issues with reproduction on this situation. (combined with an inclination to give BioWare no benefit of the doubt) As far as I can tell, Gil and Jill's relationship was meant to be mutually joking about Gil's desire to settle down and start a family. BioWare possibly missed the mark with making sure everyone got that, but that's really as far as I'm willing to go.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:25:33 GMT
Is there anything about Gil himself that you find tone deaf? The fact that he wants to raise a kid with his best friend? I feel that people are determined to make this an issue about peer pressure and pressuring Gil into a relationship, which he clearly is ok with. If you want to argue that this serves as a message that is harmful, please do so, but don't wrap up Gil's character in it. Because Gil point blank tells you that she tells him "he makes her job harder" and if you are in a romance he straight up asks you if they should have kids because he is unsure... but I am not sure how it goes down outside of the romance. I mean that line is open to interpretation. Personally it came off to me as dry and sarcastic but not altogether serious You know, Gil's thing.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:20:44 GMT
I mean Gil seems genuinely happy he's going to raise a kid with his best friend. Doesnt seem like he's been beaten down by pressure and is grudgingly accepting a responsibility he didnt want. I don't think, someone is happy, if his best (only?) friend constantly putting pressure on him. Not mentioned: I'm not happy with Gil's Jill issues. Pressure that Gil takes in stride and relatively lightheartedly. You might not be ok with how Gil is reacting to this, but well that's a whole different issue.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:19:06 GMT
I don't think that tasteless is really the right word for this. Sure people can not like the direction that Gil and Jill's relationship was taken, but I don't think that's a fault on BioWare. If I understand correctly, people are upset because Jill is encouraging Gil to have kids regardless of his own sexuality. Is this correct? How isn't it Bioware's fault that they wrote a tone deaf character arc about the one gay male love interest? They chose to write it. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess they didn't discuss it with any LGBT people, considering just how much backlash there's been to Jill from the LGBT fans. And, no, people are upset that Jill is repeatedly pushing Gil and implying that him not producing kids is him not doing his duty as a man. Is there anything about Gil himself that you find tone deaf? The fact that he wants to raise a kid with his best friend? I feel that people are determined to make this an issue about peer pressure and pressuring Gil into a relationship, which he clearly is ok with. If you want to argue that this serves as a message that is harmful, please do so, but don't wrap up Gil's character in it.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:16:07 GMT
I don't think that tasteless is really the right word for this. Sure people can not like the direction that Gil and Jill's relationship was taken, but I don't think that's a fault on BioWare. If I understand correctly, people are upset because Jill is encouraging Gil to have kids regardless of his own sexuality. Is this correct? She don't "encouraging" people, she push Gil, that he is the part of the problem, if don't make a child. I think we hear this enough IRL... This is shit. Not that Jill do her job. And Gil dismisses it. If you want to make the case that it is a hurtful message for IRL people by all means do so, but don't bring up its relation to Gil and his character.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 2:04:09 GMT
we clearly drew drastically different conclusions from Jil's 45 seconds of screen time It's understandable. If you've never been pushed to procreate and treated as less than because your sexuality makes it difficult, then you wouldn't get why it'd come off as tasteless to various other people. I don't think that tasteless is really the right word for this. Sure people can not like the direction that Gil and Jill's relationship was taken, but I don't think that's a fault on BioWare. If I understand correctly, people are upset because Jill is encouraging Gil to have kids regardless of his own sexuality. Is this correct?
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 1:55:02 GMT
we clearly drew drastically different conclusions from Jil's 45 seconds of screen time
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 1:02:12 GMT
Does Jill's dialogue change significantly if you're in a relationship with Gil/another gay relationship?
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 12, 2017 0:51:02 GMT
honestly after I saw Jill's scene I don't get the fuss
It was a 45sec conversation and she just joked a bit about Gil being a bit nicer
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 11, 2017 2:37:41 GMT
I actually never did dorian or sera's personal quests. I know i'm a terrible gay but i really cant stand either of them. What i look for in gay characters is where there gayness is secondary. Sera definitely qualifies there: she is gay and everybody knows it but it's not, like, the only or primary thing about her character. that'd be maddening train of thought writing, pranks, and an immature approach to life that masks some serious theological questions
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 10, 2017 15:17:40 GMT
A complete list of reasons to save Sloane and screw over Reyes:
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2017 2:32:18 GMT
OT: SWTOR will drop soon. Quinn has nowhere to run this time. D: my poor husbando rip. I hope I can kill Elana especially as my Trooper. Killing all the Trooper companions as Trooper lol shit tier taste tbh
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2017 2:27:10 GMT
good riddance to him
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 9, 2017 2:07:36 GMT
having advanced in the MEA plot all the way, I've revised my main post
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 6, 2017 2:02:44 GMT
Huh I remember Allan talking to the fanbase on the old BSN. I liked him. He was always open to listening to what people had to say. he did a whole lot of listening, in threads he wanted to, about certain topics and not a lot else
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