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Post by squinty on Aug 4, 2016 11:32:16 GMT
I'm just sad we'll likely never see Alexius again I'm almost sure Calpernia will make an appearance in DA4.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 4, 2016 11:41:30 GMT
I liked Alexius. He was such a great character. All he did was really just because he wanted to save his son... Leliana killing Felix is so emotional scene for me. As for Calpernia it would definitely be interesting to see how she and Dorian would get along. They are both from Tevinter, but come from such a different backgrounds. I have seen many people wish that Calpernia is a companion in DA4 and from what I've gathered the devs seem to like her too... My only problem with her returning is this: are they just going to let her get away with everything she did, just because she is such a popular character? I really hope not. Calpernia's actions caused a lot of damage to a lot of people and I hope this will be recognized in the game. I could see Inquisitor judge her in the beginning of DA4... maybe she has some valuable information or something why we must keep her alive. Then we get to make similar choice as we did with the templars and mages: ally or conscript. I really hope something like this is in the game because my rogue Inquisitor certainly did his best to kill Calpernia and would not be happy to see her walk free just like that!
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Post by squinty on Aug 4, 2016 11:54:23 GMT
Yeah, I'm a sucker for the fallen hero / anti-villain archetype. Same reason I spared Loghain in DA:O. The way Varric talks about him after you leave him in the Fade makes me feel like he really redeemed himself in the end.
Though Alexius didn't really do nearly as much damage as Loghain since you and Dorian stop him before anything happens.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2016 12:39:10 GMT
Hi there, as you can see, I have made an Avatar of sorts because Nightscrawl insisted. It is better than baby face, I'll give you that.
The main reason I like doing Champions of the Just now is not so much for Calpernia but because of seeing Dorian in a different light and just how noble and self sacrificing he can be when he knows that no one appreciates him. He is absolutely doing what he does because it is the right thing to do. It is touching seeing him being so caring for Rodderick and I just love the way he stands up to Cullen. There is also a nice irony when doing it as a romance run because you start off being just as prejudiced as everyone else in not trusting him (I always go to Redcliffe first) but then coming to realise just how unjust you were towards him (the realisation first comes to my guy when he does turn up at Haven and then sees everything that follows), trusting him as a friend and then end up loving him. Then to finally have him declare his love in Trespasser, promising there "will always be an us", made it complete.
It is just a pity there is no way you can still save Alexius and Felix on that route and you never do discover exactly what happened to them. The fact that Dorian says it is as though they never existed makes me think that Alexius did one too many attempts at turning back time and removed them both.
Whilst I do love Dorian's physical appearance, I equally love him because he is beautiful inside. His spirit matches his outward appearance or vice versa. In his case beauty isn't only skin deep, it goes right through to the core of his being.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 4, 2016 17:22:40 GMT
Regarding Alexius, I'd like to know what happens to him post-Inquisition, especially with a disbanded Inquisition, if you have him conducting research. Does he stay with the scaled down Inquisition? He's basically persona non grata in Tevinter, having been stripped of his title and holdings, so he has nothing left. Sadly, I too doubt he will ever get another mention. I'm still a tad disappointed that Dorian never mentions him again, even a single line. I think that was a writer failing. =/ I could see Inquisitor judge her in the beginning of DA4... maybe she has some valuable information or something why we must keep her alive. Then we get to make similar choice as we did with the templars and mages: ally or conscript. I really hope something like this is in the game because my rogue Inquisitor certainly did his best to kill Calpernia and would not be happy to see her walk free just like that! The problem with this is that Calpernia is basically unknown to Inquisitors who take the IHW path. As far as I know, there is ONE mention of her in a letter in the Western Approach, and that's it. It's a rather forgettable letter, too. I can just imagine someone blathering on to my Inquisitor about Calpernia and him saying, "Who?" All of the stuff she did with the Venatori under Corypheus would have to be rehashed and brought to light for all of those Inquisitors. They might do that anyway for the new player.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 17:25:08 GMT
Dorian is always my Inquisitor's BFF! No matter how many times I play, they are inseparable by the end of DAI! Being related is a fun bonus lol and I love how genuine he is, and how he tries to cover up his feelings. My fav part is when my Inquisitor came back from the Fade and he snapped at her, then asked if she was alright. That's what really endeared me to him.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 4, 2016 19:10:59 GMT
I could see Inquisitor judge her in the beginning of DA4... maybe she has some valuable information or something why we must keep her alive. Then we get to make similar choice as we did with the templars and mages: ally or conscript. I really hope something like this is in the game because my rogue Inquisitor certainly did his best to kill Calpernia and would not be happy to see her walk free just like that! The problem with this is that Calpernia is basically unknown to Inquisitors who take the IHW path. As far as I know, there is ONE mention of her in a letter in the Western Approach, and that's it. It's a rather forgettable letter, too. I can just imagine someone blathering on to my Inquisitor about Calpernia and him saying, "Who?" All of the stuff she did with the Venatori under Corypheus would have to be rehashed and brought to light for all of those Inquisitors. They might do that anyway for the new player. Ah, right I forgot about that! I wonder what she was doing if you allied with the templars... was she still working with Corypheus (I don't remember what that letter said exactly?) or what? There must be some way to make it all work if they're going to bring Calpernia back... extra dialogue and cutscene for those who fought against her, maybe?
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2016 19:12:50 GMT
I'm not sure but doesn't Dorian say something in Trespasser about dealing with Alexius' estate when he went back to Tevinter? May be I'm imagining it. I'll have to go back and check now.
Have been back. I only got the conversation on my friendship run, so I don't know if that is because Alexius was still alive and serving Inquisition in the main game, since I'd done Hushed Whispers, or whether it was because I was a friend rather than a lover. Anyway, it was when I next talked to him after the farewell party. He said about his trip to Tevinter, how he'd returned home, seen his mother drunk, visited Maevaris in Qarinus and then he says: "Then I settled some of Alexius' affairs. That wasn't fun." Normally you only settle people's affairs if they are dead but I suppose it could have been some outstanding business that he left behind. May be Alexius eventually just gave up on life after he knew that Felix was dead. It is rather sad but from what Dorian said about seeing him when he was working for the Inquisition and being a shadow of his former self, I suppose that it isn't surprising.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 4, 2016 19:23:37 GMT
Just to make sure, you guys have all seen these right?
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2016 19:30:19 GMT
I saw this one and I think there was an episode 2 as well but he didn't seem to make any more. A pity. I'm sure the real Dorian would appreciate it. The Fenris cameo was hilarious.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 4, 2016 19:43:47 GMT
I saw this one and I think there was an episode 2 as well but he didn't seem to make any more. A pity. I'm sure the real Dorian would appreciate it. The Fenris cameo was hilarious. Yep there's a second one. With even more references and an even better Fenris cameo. XD
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 4, 2016 19:52:38 GMT
I'm not sure but doesn't Dorian say something in Trespasser about dealing with Alexius' estate when he went back to Tevinter? May be I'm imagining it. I'll have to go back and check now.
Have been back. I only got the conversation on my friendship run, so I don't know if that is because Alexius was still alive and serving Inquisition in the main game, since I'd done Hushed Whispers, or whether it was because I was a friend rather than a lover. Anyway, it was when I next talked to him after the farewell party. He said about his trip to Tevinter, how he'd returned home, seen his mother drunk, visited Maevaris in Qarinus and then he says: "Then I settled some of Alexius' affairs. That wasn't fun." Normally you only settle people's affairs if they are dead but I suppose it could have been some outstanding business that he left behind. May be Alexius eventually just gave up on life after he knew that Felix was dead. It is rather sad but from what Dorian said about seeing him when he was working for the Inquisition and being a shadow of his former self, I suppose that it isn't surprising. I hope that doesn't mean he's dead... but if he is I hope we get a codex entry or something to explain what happened to him. If he does live and the Inquisition is disbanded I wonder where he would go... I doubt he can ever return to Tevinter. Dorian Time is amazing. Fenris the Weatherman... laughed so hard first time I watched it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2016 20:17:12 GMT
I think Calpernia would find it difficult to return to Tevinter under that name because she had already been marked by the Archon for removal. So if she did turn up it would either be in disguise or still as part of some underground movement. They did leave it open enough that she could return. If you did Hushed Whispers you never meet her, so you can assume she is still alive somewhere. If you do Champions of the Just, you either let her go but she claims she goes to confront Corypheus, or she fights you and jumps off the cliff into the waterfall, which leaves her death ambiguous enough to bring her back.
Her entry in World of Thedas 2 says: "Did that blazing power and spirit of steel outlive a second master, or does she lie silent in the shadows of the Temple of Mythal? The last of the Venatori........either do not know or are intent on preserving their former leader's secrets." Which does seem to leave room if they wanted her to return.
Sadly in the case of Alexius the WoT2 entry is more conclusive: "It seems that Alexius and his son both died." So it seems unlikely that they will bring him back or even mention him again. May be there will be just a small reference in any history on Dorian in the next game.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 4, 2016 20:27:48 GMT
Sadly in the case of Alexius the WoT2 entry is more conclusive: "It seems that Alexius and his son both died." So it seems unlikely that they will bring him back or even mention him again. May be there will be just a small reference in any history on Dorian in the next game. Too bad, I hope his research of time magic resulted in something useful for the Inquisition, at least. And since Dorian was his apprentice, I could see him get his old mentors research work and stuff like that after he died. I hope we get at least a mention of him. I loved his robes by the way, very fashionable! "It's like every fashion designer in the Galaxy went over to the Dark Side", like Kira would say.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 4, 2016 20:28:14 GMT
I'm not sure but doesn't Dorian say something in Trespasser about dealing with Alexius' estate when he went back to Tevinter? May be I'm imagining it. I'll have to go back and check now.
Have been back. I only got the conversation on my friendship run, so I don't know if that is because Alexius was still alive and serving Inquisition in the main game, since I'd done Hushed Whispers, or whether it was because I was a friend rather than a lover. Anyway, it was when I next talked to him after the farewell party. He said about his trip to Tevinter, how he'd returned home, seen his mother drunk, visited Maevaris in Qarinus and then he says: "Then I settled some of Alexius' affairs. That wasn't fun." Normally you only settle people's affairs if they are dead but I suppose it could have been some outstanding business that he left behind. May be Alexius eventually just gave up on life after he knew that Felix was dead. It is rather sad but from what Dorian said about seeing him when he was working for the Inquisition and being a shadow of his former self, I suppose that it isn't surprising. Oh wow, thanks for this info. I am thinking it's because you were a friend rather than a lover. This is unfortunately one of the things they do in the differences between romance vs non-romance that I dislike. I don't think that romance players should not see certain things simply because they have that extra romance stuff. I suppose that comes across as me wanting ALL THE DORIAN THINGS, and I suppose that's true, but these other tidbits are also important for his character.
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Post by Reznore on Aug 4, 2016 21:01:39 GMT
I imagine Alexius will probably end up dead or MIA. Wonder what they're going to do with Dorian in future games.On one hand I want to see him , on the other ...not really.I remember being all giddy in DA2 when you get the letter from King Alistair , I rushed to the Keep and ...the experience wasn't horrible.But Alistair didn't look like Alistair , and I wasn't playing the warden.So mmmmm.
Edit : Just saw on Twitter Thread. And awwwwww
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 4, 2016 21:32:01 GMT
There are subtle differences in the letter you get from Dorian that you find over near Carter in Trespasser, depending on whether you are a lover or a friend. I recall the letter to a lover mentions how the servants got hold of your last letter to him and had great fun reading it, which suggests that he does have a pretty good relationship with them. There is also different detail on his efforts with the Lucerni. So thinking back on it, that is probably why you get the option to ask him about his trip as a friend, because there wasn't so much about it in his letter to you.
I have to agree, though, that it does seem strange you don't get the dialogue option as a lover but may be they were making up for the fact that in the main game you don't get much dialogue as a friend once you have exhausted the ones following on from his personal quest. With other people like Cassandra, Vivienne and Sera, you can go and click on them to ask their opinion generally on other people or how you are doing but with Dorian (and also with Bull) there are long periods between main quests when all you get if you click on them is hi and goodbye.
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 4, 2016 21:42:27 GMT
I imagine Alexius will probably end up dead or MIA. Wonder what they're going to do with Dorian in future games.On one hand I want to see him , on the other ...not really.I remember being all giddy in DA2 when you get the letter from King Alistair , I rushed to the Keep and ...the experience wasn't horrible.But Alistair didn't look like Alistair , and I wasn't playing the warden.So mmmmm. Yeah, I agree. It would be great to see Dorian again, but I hope he doesn't change too much. This sometimes happens. Jack in ME3 is so different from Jack in ME2 and that always bothered me. Too much behind the scenes character development in relatively short time. As for Alistair I don't like his small cameos very much. They just seem so pointless to me especially the one in ME2 when he really has no reason to be in Kirkwall or invite Hawke to meet him. In DAI his presence made sense, but I hope he doesn't appear in DA4 especially if it's mostly set in Tevinter because honestly I just can't imagine why he would go there... he has a kingdom to rule! (or Grey Warden business to take care of)
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Post by squinty on Aug 4, 2016 23:36:40 GMT
Sadly in the case of Alexius the WoT2 entry is more conclusive: "It seems that Alexius and his son both died." So it seems unlikely that they will bring him back or even mention him again. May be there will be just a small reference in any history on Dorian in the next game. Oh that's sad. Seems odd that he would just die while working for the Inquisition though. I assume WoT treats the "Inquisition allied with the Templars" route as canon?
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Post by milesbär on Aug 5, 2016 7:17:56 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2016 11:13:29 GMT
I don't know about them treating CoJ as canon. I mean Felix dies on either path and Alexius just seems broken in spirit after his death. May be he just does his bit initially and then gives up. I have experienced myself and seen in other people how depression can literally cause you to physically collapse. In our modern world we have the support on hand to ensure you don't simply fade away but in the setting Alexius is in if he fell down and just lay there, refused to eat or communicate and gradually gave up on the world, what would they do?
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Post by Zemgus on Aug 5, 2016 12:02:04 GMT
I don't know about them treating CoJ as canon. I mean Felix dies on either path and Alexius just seems broken in spirit after his death. May be he just does his bit initially and then gives up. I have experienced myself and seen in other people how depression can literally cause you to physically collapse. In our modern world we have the support on hand to ensure you don't simply fade away but in the setting Alexius is in if he fell down and just lay there, refused to eat or communicate and gradually gave up on the world, what would they do? I agree. There's no canon, that just simply implies that Alexius is dead either way. He probably had no will to live after Felix died, but at least I hope his research work for Inquisition wasn't for nothing.
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Post by squinty on Aug 5, 2016 13:20:20 GMT
I don't know about them treating CoJ as canon. I mean Felix dies on either path and Alexius just seems broken in spirit after his death. May be he just does his bit initially and then gives up. I have experienced myself and seen in other people how depression can literally cause you to physically collapse. In our modern world we have the support on hand to ensure you don't simply fade away but in the setting Alexius is in if he fell down and just lay there, refused to eat or communicate and gradually gave up on the world, what would they do? More than anything, I think Alexius would be vulnerable to possession. A despair demon taking the guise of his son could totally do him in. Alexius would likely know its a demon but would let it in anyway. But I don't think Dorian would just sit idle while his former mentor is slowly dying in the Inquisition's care like that. He obviously regrets abandoning him before and pleads with you to spare him and approves of you give him a comfortable life doing what Alexius enjoys most, which is research. So Dorian obviously cares about his well-being. I think he would definitely try to reach out to Alexius before something bad happens.
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 5, 2016 13:47:14 GMT
I'm sure Dorian would try to help but he'd probably realise it would be a kindness to let Alexius go. He'd just stay there silently supporting him to ease his passage.
Luckily it would seem that the research Alexius and his wife did will not totally be lost because of what Dorian says about settling his affairs back in Tevinter. I can totally see Dorian claiming all the research notes from the estate and taking them with him for safekeeping. After the revelations in Trespasser he would have even more incentive to take an interest in them. Gereon and Livia spent years together studying the Veil and the limits of magic. Then Livia took on a team of apprentices to help her measure the effects on the Veil of the sort of magic Gereon and Dorian were coming up with. I'm sure that wasn't just time magic. So whilst we always think of Solas as being the expert on the Fade and the Veil, the fact is that of those people still living and not part of the Fen'Harel camp, Dorian is probably the most knowledgeable. It was noticeable that he was very much able to discuss the technical aspects of magic with Solas and not seem out of his depth.
It is a pity in a way we never got to discuss magical theory with Dorian more but whilst it may not have been apparent in game, Dorian is very knowledgeable and has the talent to stretch his mind sufficiently to come up with new solutions to problems. This is why he could very much be cast as an arcane adviser in the next game and sending out the PC to gather bits of information he needs for his research.
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Post by squinty on Aug 5, 2016 13:55:59 GMT
The research he did for the Inquisition was basically nothing. A measly cooldown amulet that you can also get as a random drop seemed like such a wasted opportunity. The entire resolution to his story, with the capture and judgement and everything, would seem like a missed opportunity to me if he just wastes away behind the camera anyway.
"Settling his affairs" to me sounds more like maybe trying to get a hold of his estates before someone else does, dealing with whatever legal issues or debts he might have left behind, etc. I don't think there was any hidden research that Dorian wasn't already privy to. I got the impression Dorian and Alexius were on the brink of a breakthrough when Livia and Felix got attacked, which caused Alexius to become sidetracked and focused exclusively on helping Felix. So any research that he might have been working on before, independent of the Breach, he dropped it entirely.
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