Dorian Pavus Thread "He's More Handsome Than A Cockroach"

I've never understood his explanation that the position is supposed to be insulting. Is it supposed to be insulting to him, or to the Inquisition? Why appoint him at all if that's the case? Why not just pick someone else altogether? I just don't get it.

If we go by that letter Vivienne receives (romance banter), it would seem that there are rumors up north of Dorian's relationship with the Inquisitor. So it seems to me that the appointment would be seen as a positive thing in that case.

As far as having the South respect Tevinter, or her ambassador, they might not give a damn. Then again, if that's the case, why bother sending anyone at all? Again, I just don't get it.

I love the character, and I do think his character writing was excellent for the most part; he has so many layers and a lot of nuance. But when it comes to things like this it just seems lacking. With the post-Mythal conversation, and also these Trespasser developments, it's very clear they have plans for Dorian beyond DAI. I don't see how that can be denied in any way. So the fact that he has to leave is completely understandable. These explanations, however, don't make a lot of sense to me. The most logical part of the whole thing is Dorian's acceptance of the magister title, which will enable him to do more in helping Tevinter than he would be able to otherwise. That in turn necessitates that he actually be IN Tevinter for an as-yet-undetermined amount of time, and separated from his lover. I get all that.

Why was his father assassinated? From what we know of Halward, other than his disgust with blood magic, he doesn't seem like the type to advocate for change. He fell out of favor with the Archon. The only explanation I can think of is that he actually has more pride for his son, and his son's actions with the Inquisition, than Dorian thinks he does, or gives him credit for -- that wonderful Pavus familial communication, ya know? Perhaps Halward has been advocating against the Venatori, and for the Inquisition, this entire time? Who knows, really?



As far as the Divine goes, I think it's difficult to tell based on the information we're presented with in the game. The Archon is Tevinter's leader, and the Inquisition dealt with the leaders of nations, so it makes sense that Radonis would be the prime person mentioned in various dialogue, such as the ones with Josephine. I don't find it likely that they would have dwelt too much on the other powerful leader in Tevinter, Divine Urian, because of the scope of the game.

What is the actual dialogue here? I've only played Trespasser once.

Honestly, the only thing I remember about either of the conversations is the post-party one where one of the Inquisitor dialogue options is to say, "You think this is funny?" which I took, because of my mood at the time*, and to which Dorian responds in a contrite manner with, "Nothing about this is funny"; that appeased me a bit.


* I really did not like being surprised by the party. At least Dorian realizes it looks very bad, because the look on his face when the Inquisitor appears and is totally clueless seems to indicate that he knows he f'd up here.

The sad thing is that I, and my Inquisitor, realize that it plays out this way because he wanted to avoid the conversation, so I can't be too upset with him because I have that understanding. =/


At any rate, I'm hoping that we do get the assassination thing resolved in the next game. If he's an advisor or something, I think the chances are decent, seeing as how all of our advisors in DAI had their own quests.

No, other than the fact that he saw him at a ball once, according to a banter with Vivienne.


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I'd say he has some connection to Radonis simply because of the fact that his father was once close to him, and may have still been in private for all we know. If Radonis really liked Halward, and appreciated his council, he may have only shunned him in public, to play along with the public perception and image that is so highly valued there. At the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if Dorian has at least met Radonis on some occasion.

About the conversations you can have with Dorian. I've just realised the reason you only seem to get the conversation about what he did back home on a friendship run is that in that case he has been away for 2 years. I assume that if, like most people in the romance with him, you managed to persuade him to stick around for a longer period, then he will only have been away for a few months, clearly not enough time to do all the things he did during the 2 years. If anyone did the romance with him being gone for 2 years, perhaps they can confirm this is the case.

Anyway, the conversation about the Ambassadorship is as follows:

Inquisitor: What is this ambassadorship about exactly?

Dorian: I believe my father set it up but the Imperium didn't object. They'd love for the Inquisition to fall apart, so they're happy if it seems they think this entire Exalted Council is a waste of time.

Inquisitor: That makes no sense.

Dorian: Really? If dread Tevinter actually pushed for the Inquisition to end, then everybody would unite against them. So they send a nobody pariah and hope for the best. It makes perfect sense to me.

Considering Dorian says this even if he has been back in Tevinter for 2 years and in any case has been actively working with Maevaris in setting up the Lucerni, a group of young Magisters committed to working for reform of the system, the nobody pariah doesn't really fit anymore. Dorian is now a political figure back in Tevinter, even if he has only been at it for a few months but certainly if he has been doing so for 2 years. What makes sense is sending someone who was working with the Inquisition before and has a positive reputation with them to make it look as though Tevinter doesn't object to its existence, so pulling the double bluff that Dorian maintains is the ultimate aim. If the Imperium really wanted to make it appear as though they thought the Exalted Council was a waste of time, they wouldn't have officially sent anyone at all.

Then again, Dorian gets sent as ambassador even if he wasn't on good terms with the Inquisitor, so what message does that send? Of course the Inquisitor never gets to ask him about the appointment if that is the case; Dorian just revels in the fact that he is there as ambassador whether the Inquisitor expected him to be there or not. "I bet you never thought to see me again?" Followed my a rather gloating laugh. Clearly in that case Dorian does not think of himself as a nobody pariah and is enjoying the fact that the Inquisition is on the way out, which is something he probably wanted to happen just as much as the Imperium did.

They send a "nobody pariah" because they think it looks like they don't care what happens to the Inquisition. They think this useless ambassador will have no influence one way or the other, so they can hope for the outcome they desire (the dissolution of the Inquisition) through other channels (The Exalted Council).

I want my Inquisitor to say, "But you're not a 'nobody pariah' down here."

When you factor in the fact that rumors of the relationship (the Vivienne banter), or at the very least a positive view of a Tevinter that helped end Corypheus (party conversation), his explanation still makes no sense. Someone else has just told me that in the latter case, they may just think that that acceptance of a Tevinter was only during the Corypheus crisis and also that Dorian was part of a team, so his role in everything may be overlooked, downplayed, or forgotten. I can understand that line of thinking, but I don't know... it still seems rather weak to me.


Yes, this exactly.


THIS IS PERFECT.

I normally don't like to resort to headcanon for things, especially when it comes to disregarding an NPCs own words, but this is really the best explanation. I'll just go with this.


It was also suggested to me that Tevinter wants to put up the appearance that they care. They're big on appearances, so I can sort of see it, but why they should suddenly care what the rest of Thedas thinks of them now I have no idea.


It kind of pisses me off in relation to the Archon, though. The Inquisition eliminates Corypheus, who was a threat to his power and also puts a major hurt on the Venatori faction. The Inquisition is also the only non-nation, free-roaming army that is capable, and willing, to help them with the Qunari threat. Also, depending on some of the options chosen in the game, you could have shown favor to Tevinter on the war table and with the Josephine discussions.

In that case, it just seems to me that the Archon and other higher powers in Tevinter feel so threatened by the Inquisition, who is not beholden to anyone, that they would rather see it dissolved, just as Ferelden would (let's not forget about them). The only reason Orlais is pro-Inquisition is because it had a hand in putting whichever leader on the throne.

It seems like the majority of Thedas thinks the Inquisition has gotten too big for her britches and wants to rein it in. It's a good thing the only other option, which I deem worse, was to merge with the Chantry, because otherwise I might have wanted to keep it just to screw with all those ungrateful wretches.

Could have been either or both -- we just don't know. Someone appointed him ambassador. And why? Okay, I'm going at this with Dorian being on good terms with the Inquisitor and the Inquisition first (because that is my own personal canon and I've thought much more about it ): Because not only is Dorian intimately acquainted with everything that's led up to the Exalted Council, but out of anyone they could have named ambassador, Dorian is virtually the only Tevinter that anyone at that council (including the Inquisition itself) would be inclined to actually listen to. Anyone else they'd dismiss out of hand as another Vint bastard.  Even if (perish the thought) he's on bad terms, he still knows more about the Inquisition and the players involved than anyone who's been sitting up in Minrathous the entire time; even if he ended up merely observing, he'd have a better idea what to look for. Either way he's in a position to be more effective than anyone else who they may have sent as an ambassador.

As far as the stated desire for the Inquisition to end... gah. Too many variables start coming into play, including the fact that your Inquisitor may devoutly want it to end as well.

Ah, but what he thinks and what they think may be two different things. Dorian seems to have a fair bit invested in seeing himself as a pariah and perennial outsider. It may not even occur to him that they might find even his 'ineffective' observations valuable when he returns to Tevinter. Or he may be playing up the ineffective pariah thing whether he truly believes it or not, as he's made it part of his public persona. As you say, their thoughts on appointing him are only given according to Dorian. Or I could be talking out of my hat. It really depends on what the true motivations of those back in Tevinter who appointed him in the first place were; they're not exactly known for transparency and truthfulness in all their dealings.

I hate to nit pick seeing as we are all getting on so well but Verfallen is correct and the spelling is "consiliare", not "consigliere". The latter is a specific term relating to the Mafia. I know the Imperium may seem like the Mafia at times but that is not the word used. The term does come from the Latin (using my trusty dictionary again) consiliar/ius, which translates as advisor, counsellor or spokesman, or when being used as an adjective: counselling. I think in this instance the Consiliare are a group of advisors to the Archon, which is why I referred to Halward as being part of his inner circle. They are essentially his team and therefore I would assume are as trusted as anyone can be in their political scene. If Halward was part of this group of advisers, I can see why he would have to officially resign from the public embarrassment caused by his actions, but if he really was trusted by the Archon, he may still have had an influence behind the scenes. I also think it is significant that the Archon had as one of his trusted advisors, someone who had always spoken against blood magic. Would he have achieved his position without ever having made his views known on the matter? I suppose that is possible but it could equally be the case that the Archon trusted him precisely because of this stance. If the Archon had got wind of exactly what Halward had been planning to do to his son, that could even have been the real reason he was forced to resign. Archon Radonis may not be entirely clean when it comes to blood magic but that doesn't mean he might not have principles concerning its use.

In terms of who might have a motive for killing Halward, outside of just general political enemies, the Venatori would normally be the principle contenders, particularly since they would hold a grudge because of Dorian. However, it seems strange that they would delay for two years if that was the case. I was struck by Dorian's words that he was going after his father's assassins and then after the people giving Tevinter a bad name, but he thought it likely the were one and the same, making his task a lot simpler. Again, this could be pointing to the Venatori remnant but it occurred to me that someone who was giving Tevinter a very bad name was the Black Divine.

I'm pretty sure Evangeline wasn't the first person that Lambert told his story to. No doubt he also used it as part of his argument in favour of breaking away from the Chantry, because Justinia was favouring the mages and working to her own agenda instead of upholding, as he would see it, the principles of her office. So if Dorian learned that it was due to his experiences with Urian that had turned Lambert into a hardline anti-mage activist, he might have become more critical of the Black Divine when he got back home.

There is also the fact that Dorian is dead against the hypocrisy in Tevinter politics. One of the prime examples of this is condemning blood magic in public and yet using it behind the scenes. Whilst it is pretty endemic throughout the mage population, having had the Black Divine and his cronies make such use of it in consolidating their power would be something I would think that Dorian would eventually have to confront if he wanted to reform Tevinter.

I must admit it is anticipation of some really interesting power play that makes the prospect of going to Tevinter next so intriguing.  I would just love to see Dorian strutting his stuff in front of the Magisterium.  Plus also the exotic setting and ancient culture that we will at last be able to experience first hand.

I agree that Halward's stepping down makes more sense as a show put on for public consumption than an actual rift with the Archon, though I could see Radonis demanding it as something of a disciplinary measure as well. As Nightscrawl said, he may not give a damn about the difficulties Halward's having with his son, so to have him essentially going into histrionics about Dorian in a way that's getting noticed by others makes the Archon and his consiliare look bad. Within the upper echelons of the Magisterium, any sign of weakness isn't likely to go over well.

In future, it remains to be seen how much influence Dorian and the Lucerni will actually manage to have within the Magisterium (and I wouldn't discount Maevaris in that; hopefully we'll see more of her coming up). Knowing Dorian's personality and his self-image as an outsider, Radonis may be of the mind that if handled correctly, Dorian could be an asset rather than an adversary (particularly -- and this is wildly speculative -- if there is a power struggle with the Black Divine).

I will leave all speculation about how the romanced Inquisitor would fit into this to one side, though I certainly have Thoughts about it.

There is a lovely image with Dorian in it over on the Blanketfort. As usual I am hopeless in trying to copy it over here. What is so touching is that it shows Dorian comforting the Inquisitor as Dagna fits at new prosthetic arm but apparently the person who drew it didn't intend for it to be Dorian comforting his lover but his best friend. If anyone is better than me at moving these things about, please bring it here.

From everything Gaider said, the Imperium is loosely based on the Roman Empire, especially in its late Byzantine period, so that's certainly a reasonable assumption.

Heh. I've devoted something over 300,000 words and counting to that exercise, which leads me to believe no matter what I will find myself disagreeing with at least some of what the writers do.


Whether the writers are interested in addressing that is, of course, another question.