Dorian Pavus Thread "He's More Handsome Than A Cockroach"

See, he still keeps Tevinter separate? I don't think I remember a single occasion of him telling the Inquisitor: "I wish you could see it! I wish I could show you that little fountain on the corner of such and such street..." He is written very well as someone who is not going to stay abroad, his exile is temporary, two years more or less, but the Inquisitor is always omitted from his Tevinter imagery and conversations. Inquisitor remains a lovely foreigner to him, someone separate from his Tevinter circle of friends & home. As someone who'd left & intended to leave, and did the opposite thing when it came to my relationships with countrymen, I am sensitive to these sort of things.

That's just what I said At any rate, I love the character, and very interested in seeing the ending of his story. If it is happy, so much the better. Overall, my main "keeping my fingers crossed" for DA4 is that Dorian comes back as a companion, not advisor. It's unrealistic to hope for it, but still, I would absolutely love that above anything else.

To be honest the real reason that Dorian's romance ends the way it does is that it is clear the writers wanted him back in Tevinter but without the Inquisitor. It is the same if you are just his devoted friend. He actually says you are his ONLY true friend, yet for some peculiar reason will not accept your direct help with his cause in Tevinter. However, in both cases, romanced and non-romanced, he gives you the crystal so you can stay in touch. Then the epilogue states categorically that maintaining the bond with the Inquisitor via the crystal is very important to him. Obviously the intention was always to have Dorian involved in the next game (he will likely fulfil the role that Varric did in DAI but probably not as a companion) but they did not really intend for the Inquisitor to play a visible role, so while the events of the next chapter are taking place, the romance is a long distance one. It is also worth remembering that Dorian was saying what he did when he thought you were still going to be Inquisitor before the events of Trespasser, so at that point you are still an important political player who would not be welcome in Tevinter. After all he does say that the separation is not intended to be permanent but simply necessary for the present. At the end of Trespasser, if in a romance, he is still there at the secret meeting when the select group are making their plans against Fen'Harel, so he has not simply rushed off back to Tevinter. Even if you disband the Inquisition, you are still an important political figure in the south and likely to be a target in Tevinter, which is why you are only ever rumoured to be seen there having "sneaked in" to aid his efforts, whilst still no doubt engaged in your own behind the scenes efforts against Fen'Harel.

They did a similar sort of thing with Leliana if in a romance with the Warden. She is missing from Awakening and her absence is only explained by a letter. Then it is clear they have been separated for some time in DAI but by the end of Trespasser they are back together again, so I have every hope they will do the same for Dorian once he has played his part in the next chapter of the game.

I have pointed out before how the male PC generally gets a much worse outcome in Trespasser than a female PC, leaving aside Solas who is only available to elves anyway. If a female PC romances Cullen they get married, if they romance Sera they get married. With Josephine it is implied they will eventually marry, so the only person who doesn't seem to want them around is Iron Bull (same for male PC) despite the fact they seems no earthly reason why if you disband the Inquisition you couldn't join the Chargers.

With a male PC if they romance Dorian they are left in a long distance romance, if they romance Cassandra she refuses marriage even if not Divine and they conduct a long distance romance with periodic meetings or a platonic relationship if Divine. Only with Josephine is there the implication they will eventually marry but even then that has to take place in your head, not on screen. Iron Bull has already been mentioned. So really the moral seems to be that if you want the relationship to be on going and the PC directly involved with their lover's life, you need to play as a female.

Why is everyone so sure he isn't going to be a companion again? If Bioware continues the tradition of carrying over a character from the previous DA game, he is by far the best choice.

Dorian voices it when he starts denouncing the breeding that went into producing him, and in his other dialogue where he talks about the folk tales full of commoners that are powerful mages & he is aware how making Corypheus a commoner will strip the romantic glitter.

All and all, he is either poised to accept the responsibility that society places on him and uphold the traditional values in one way or another, or he is to rebel against the conventions. He has already rejected exile as an option. Of a lot of options available to him, the one that puts the ideal of the personal happiness & self-expression the most in the spotlight is making a show-case of Pavus estate. Obviously, he can also leave it to an epicurean school or the political party or something like that terminating Pavus' house. But his fascination with history and how everything in Tevinter is going back a thousand years...

so, I want to see what BioWare does with him. Let him compromise and comply, or become more rebelous over time, and how it ends for him.

Well, Oghren returned between DA:O and Awakening, and so did Anders (and technically Justice as well) between Awakening and DA2. And then came Varric. That's why I called it a tradition, and if they wanted to keep it Dorian makes the most sense. Solas is out of the question. Blackwall and Bull can be dead. Cassandra and Vivienne can be the Divine. Varric is overused, and he is viscount anyway. Cole can be two very different characters, and he feels like a one time gimmick anyway. Sera is possible, I guess, but she is an ill fit for a Tevinter setting, not to mention Inquisition's most controversial character.

Though I do think DA uses too many of the same characters across games, I hope they continue this particular trend since it helps establish some continuity in between the stories. It's also interesting to know what your previous hero's companion thinks of the new adventure. And while Dorian is not one of my favorite characters, I still find him likable and think he could be expanded a lot in his natural habitat. That would fit the tradition, too: take a relatively light-hearted character from the previous game and make him grimmer 

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This is what I was getting at. He mentions that their folk tales are full of commoners becoming powerful mages, Laetans in other words, but nothing about commoners becoming leaders in the community. Now he could have done because during the time of Hessarian the Soporati made great gains at the expense of the Altus. To the present day he is still seen as a hero to the common classes (in other words the Soporati). Under Hessarian and for a hundred years afterwards the highest ranking clerics in the Imperium were non-mages and they actually held seats in the Magisterium but even before the rise of the southern Chantry, the Altus had begun taking back control of key positions, no doubt initially by means of non-mage relatives and then dispensing with the pretence altogether. Oddly enough, it would seem the efforts to appease the southern Chantry in the early days only seemed to assist the process because of the resentment against the southerners telling them what to do.

However, Dorian mentions none of this, only that female Magisters resent the fact that they can't be Divine in Tevinter. These days in order to be a high ranking member of the clergy in Tevinter, you have to be a member of one of the Circles, which rules out even mage slaves. Soporati have no chance of advancement beyond the ordinary clergy and thus no chance of gaining a place in the Magisterium. This is why I don't really see Dorian as a champion of the common people based off his attitude in DAI. When Solas gives him the challenge "if you really want to make amends for what was done in the past you would free the slaves of all races", Dorian says that he doesn't think he could do that. He was probably being both realistic and truthful in saying that but it is clear that making a political statement by elevating a Soporati to be his heir is not high on his list of priorities.

That isn't to say he couldn't change and I hope that he does. Still if he had really wanted to make a visible statement challenging tradition, he should have let his lover go with him back to Tevinter, not only male but in many cases not even human or a mage. Clearly that was a step too far.

This is a fair assessment, I'd say. Dorian doesn't have anything against the common people, but he's never shown a great deal of fervor to champion their cause. His concerns lie more in the realm of the hypocrisy and corruption within the Altus and Magisterium, with an expectation that if those top levels of Tevinter society can be cleaned up and reformed it will result in the overall betterment of the whole of society. And realistically, that's probably a big enough challenge for the Lucerni to bite off, given how entrenched the current customs and power networks within the Altus, the Magisterium and the ruling regime are.

Dorian has also never been a frothing revolutionary. He's more a passionate academic, and something of a realist about how much he's likely going to be able to accomplish. If his sexual orientation had been accepted and he was allowed to live accordingly, he likely would never have left Tevinter (though it's possible he would have still have gotten involved with efforts to make changes to the corruption he sees).

Was discussing this elsewhere, and really, the only lover Dorian could realistically bring up to Tevinter permanently is a human mage. His peers might grudgingly accept that, especially if his amatus is a powerful mage in his own right. Any Soporati would be in constant danger of being murdered or worse, and it's unlikely they'd accept an elven mage (refer back to the murder or worse consequence). Given the history between Tevinter and the Qunari, any attempt to push that one through would likely get them both assassinated. Again, Dorian would have to balance emotion/bucking tradition with realism, and the danger to any lover who wasn't a human mage would likely not be worth chancing.
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I'd say any attempt to force real change on something as old and entrenched as the upper echelons in Tevinter is going to be an uphill battle, and Dorian is well aware of that. He also knows how the games are played, having grown up in the midst of them. He's also not doing this alone, and I wouldn't discount Maevaris. She's a formidable ally, and I'm hoping we'll see her in DA4. As well, the young and directionless ones aren't going to remain that way forever -- as long as Dorian and Mae can keep the Lucerni on track and un-assassinated, they could turn into a force to be reckoned with.

As far as the comments about his character... Well, I've devoted a few hundred thousand words to that subject and what happens post-Trespasser (particularly here), so I'll just agree here that he certainly has some things to resolve where the game leaves off.
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It is also true that old & entrenched societies did crumble either to external pressures or internal uprisings. Tevinter is the last bastion of the Imperium, and after two hundred years of Qunari challenging it, cannot be as monolith and impermeable as it once was. Dorian does not seem to believe that Qunari can be defeated... so, again, I do not have a clear idea of what he envisions, particularly after his last stay in Tevinter. He might have a familiarity with the game, but his father who had by far better grasp on it and no drawbacks was assassinated, and Dorian is far more vulnerable without him. Maybe. Because, as far as I know, Dorian's mother remains a complete mystery. I dunno if Gaider will bring back Valygar's mother ghost and does another spin on an obsessive Mage, and a husband falling a victim to the insatiable thirst for power. Dorian is very obviously no Valygar but some motives of Corthala's family are sort of there, as he is a necromancer. So, I am not sure if his mother would protect him or be his adversary/nemesis.