Dorian Pavus Thread "He's More Handsome Than A Cockroach"

So all of the oppression and injustice, sexism, racism, classism, war, rape, torture, religious intolerance and the like are a-ok, just as long as there's no homophobia? Look, I feel for everyone who has to deal with that kind of crap, as I have beloved family and friends who are gay and bi. But you cannot fight evil by pretending that it does not exist. Dragon Age an adult, dark fantasy with black and grey morality, complex characters and no easy answers. Take that away, and you have a Forgotten Realms rip off with all the nuance of a Saturday morning cartoon.

What do you think homophobia adds to Thedas?

Okay, some of you are not crazy about Dorian's personal quest and that's fine. But once again, the particular objection Dorian's father had to him being gay wasn't that he was gay so much as he wouldn't do his duty to the Altus and produce new little magelets. One could also point out that -- probably due in part to the fact that they despised one another -- Dorian's parents put all their eggs in one basket by pinning all their hopes on the only child they produced. They simply assumed he'd fall in step (not to mention, his not producing offspring also effectively ends at least Halward's branch of the Pavus line). So technically, rather than come down so heavily on Dorian, Halward should have taken a little of the blame himself for failing to provide a backup just in case the first offspring didn't produce as expected. Anyway, one could make the argument that Tevinter, etc. are not so much homophobic -- they don't hate gay people for being gay -- as obsessed with ensuring reproduction occurs (there's probably a much more elegant way to put that ).

As far as the question of what homophobia adds to Thedas? They haven't shown that there is a great deal of rabid homophobia in Thedas, but there's an undercurrent that -- again -- likely has its basis in the previous point about its being unproductive as it relates to carrying on bloodlines and propogating the species in general. What does it add? A bit of realistic colour, I suppose. As Walter Black said, they've shown there's every other kind of rotten prejudice in Thedas, so even though you're weary of homophobia existing, does that mean that one facet should be exempt? People are assholes, on Thedas as well as Earth.

^ Dorian's homosexuality was decided upon AFTER the base character was created, that of a rebel Tevinter altus mage. That was the basic template for the Dorian character when they began fleshing out everyone. They then used his homosexuality as part of the reason to show why he would be dissatisfied with being in a seeming perfect position in life.



You don't like the flavor of Dorian's personal story, and that's fine. But he was NOT created as the gay character simply to send a message about homosexuality. It's just simply not an accurate representation about the character's creation.

And as far as homophobia in Thedas, how many more quotes must I show to illustrate that Dorian's homosexuality is not the specific issue that Halward had a problem with?

A bit of fan art to change the mood?


Link


And some funny gifs?

Wait... the Bog Unicorn's "horn" is a sword rammed through its jaw?? I guess I never looked that close. x___X

This fact not justified the stereotypical story, only perhaps explain...
They used his homosexuality, and created homophobia in Tevinter, because his life seems too shiny? Why they did not kill his cat instead of this?

^ Sera does mention that bit about chevaliers if you are a warrior that takes the Champion spec. It's one of those unique spec conversations.

As I said before, people aren't going to agree on this issue. No one is going to convince anyone of anything. So why bother talking about it except to complain? There is nothing you can do about it and it just brings negative shit into the thread.

Quite possibly but please note my comments about Tyrone Power as Zorro. In the film he has a dinky little moustache and to be honest that is the image that I now link with Dorian, particularly after the first time I discovered that any of the companions could ride the horse and when Dorian stopped the horse a bit quickly, it reared in the air in spectacular fashion, which is when the thought popped into my head "Zorro!". Funnily enough I think Zorro was the only character Tyrone Power played that had this moustache. I have to admit to having a bit of a thing about Tyrone Power, particularly as they used to show a lot of those old Hollywood movies on TV when I was young.

May be the Dev team were also making fun of themselves because they had black and dark shades as the favoured colour for the well dressed Altus and to be honest it did seem so clichéd that black was the favourite colour of the mages of the Imperium. I thought that was why Dorian favoured light colours, because again he was rebelling against convention, although of course it could also have been intentionally symbolic on the part of the designers. I've mentioned before how I hope we are able to defy convention up in Tevinter and have something other than monochrome in our wardrobe. I would like it to be colourful in an exotic eastern way. I do love the snake motifs though.

Hey, I like Dorian; his wit and confidence, the fact that he takes such utter joy in magic, his will to show what Tevinter could be, his eye opening character development, and his refusal to be anyone other than himself. My objection was more to a portion of fandom demanding that depictions of homophobia, regardless of character or context, should be banned. As if this particular "trigger" is so much worse than all the racism, sexism, classism, rape, torture, war crimes and the like. "Bioware should soften or get rid of those too," I've heard people say. And then what? We play an RPG of hopscotch and drinking tea on the porch?

"People should be better in Fantasy than in real life," is another complaint I hear. That might work in a game for children and all ages, but Dragon Age's tone has already been set. Magic, elves, dragons, these things are ultimately metaphoric window dressing for the physical reality of any fantasy story. When it comes to the emotional reality of a truly mature tale however, creators have a responsibility to be honest with all the myriad layers of three dimensional characters; good, evil, weird, unremarkably ordinary and everything in between. Sometimes villains confuse you with acts of kindness, sometimes heroes disappoint you with selfishness, incompetence, or even bigotry.  Seriously people, you knew coming in that Dragon Age was a dark, adult fantasy  examining how people would actually act in such a setting, not how they should.

One more thing some people conveniently forget is how DA's emotional truth was insisted upon by it's main creator, David Gaider. A gay writer. Dilute this, and you risk diluting his vision.


I would argue that Tevinter's homophobia was well thought out. To me, it is just one of the more obvious symptoms of a larger issue, namely the Imperium's obsession with Mage power and eugenics. Despite Tevinter culture exalting the Mage Master Race, magic in Thedas remains a genetic recessive. Combine this with duels, House feuds and infighting, blood sacrifices, and those lost in the war with the Qunari, the 'Vints are desperate for new Mages. Obviously, the Magisterium would prefer the nobles breeding new Mages in order to continue their lines, but they will raise commoners with magic if they have to. Given such an environment, it is completely logical that homophobic attitudes would arise in Tevinter culture.

I think that this idea could well be one of the plot lines in the next game. Dorian's greatest fear is temptation but he also declared for his homeland "I would do anything". I'm guessing that somewhere along the line there is going to be tension between his aspiration to maintain his integrity and his desire to save his country and the new PC (or old one) is going to have a part to play in deciding which way Dorian goes.

Fenris always maintained that he didn't deny there might be good mages in Tevinter but how many temptations do you have to give a man before he submits? Dorian does not desire power for himself but what if it was a choice of saving Tevinter or not? The road to hell is paved with good intentions: you only have to look at Anders to see that is true. So it won't be a surprise if temptation is a theme where Dorian is concerned. Just so long as we are allowed to keep him from submitting to temptation if we want to, not have to stand by, like we did with Anders, and be powerless to prevent it.