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Post by christsuperstar on May 11, 2017 14:31:16 GMT
Even if harsh, it's not really unwarranted either. I just hope this kick to the teeth will ultimately spur some growth in the professionalism department - company and individuals both.
It seems lack of (or just plain bad) coordination/scheduling/planning and quality control have been the worst offenders - even if I don't agree with their singleplayer mmo visioning. There's a lot of "mess".
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Post by codephat on May 11, 2017 14:37:03 GMT
At least they said they'd still support multiplayer, even if it's just things like balance changes.
I still really like it.
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Post by sctrojanbulldog on May 11, 2017 14:43:36 GMT
I look at this a couple of ways. First, this was a five year project and there needs to be some break. MEA (IMO) received WAY too much hate, but criticism was warranted in many areas. To adjust to criticism, they'll need to step back, evaluate, and collect themselves. Future ME games will need, new writers (that doesn't mean all will be replaced), some fresh blood in developers, and in some respects, some Director changes.
Once this is figured out, a new game will be planned and it will take them three to five years to complete. I don't see this the same way as DAI, as DAI is an example of what would have happened if they released ME3v2... I still feel bad for the DAI team having their game released so close to the Witcher III. DAI was a good game but looks sooo dated in almost every respect to a game released in the same three month period.
Last, EA has a lot invested in Star Wars IP. And they have games that haven't been officially announced in mid production. I'd imagine it's all hands on deck. You're not keeping full teams on a published game. And you have to bite off what you can chew. MEA is done, now it's being supported. There are other games NOT done and may need so additional help to meet their release period targets.
Oh, and for what it's worth (and opinions are worth nothing), I thought MEA was a solid game. And when you contextualize it's glitches with what's being released by other publishers... outside of Nintendo... there's no appreciable difference.
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Post by Terminator Force on May 11, 2017 14:47:55 GMT
I guess the same thing that happened to DAI will probably happen here, we see it already, minimal support, little to no communication, probably very few or no DLC at all and then that's it, game over. ![](http://i.imgur.com/jqEk5TO.gif)
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Post by SalMasRac on May 11, 2017 16:04:24 GMT
Handing them a fresh project with a new engine where everything had to be created from scratch was probably not the best move. I have to wonder how much better MEA would have turned out if they'd stuck to Unreal and were able to build upon what had already been done.
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Post by hanskey on May 11, 2017 16:37:22 GMT
Would've been less TTD and better quality, imo. Migrating the engine had to have been a complete nightmare
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Post by hanskey on May 11, 2017 16:42:19 GMT
BTW, this is not real news, just click-bait for tech sites, because this happens FOR ALMOST EVERY GAME at this point. DLC is mostly or completely done already. Plus, the project they are being shifted to is ALREADY IN THE SAME BUILDING.
Boring non-news to try and kick them while they're down, when they just did a mostly good thing and the best thing in weeks, is annoying to read and hear and try to argue against.
If you want support to continue or even ramp up, then stop needlessly turning people off to the game by spreading click-bait garbage so that adoption and play rates demonstrate that it is worth the additional investment in this title to EA.
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Post by sctrojanbulldog on May 11, 2017 16:42:34 GMT
Handing them a fresh project with a new engine where everything had to be created from scratch was probably not the best move. I have to wonder how much better MEA would have turned out if they'd stuck to Unreal and were able to build upon what had already been done. I wonder the same thing... but after seeing what DAI experienced (even though they did use frostbite), compounded by the Witcher III release.... The unreal engine and straight cover shooting may have been an even bigger issue with reception. MEA had to be different but had to be the same. It succeeded in the former. People that enjoy cover shooters HATE feeling exposed. People that enjoy Battlefield... HATE feeling restricted and/or confined. And as far as the story... that's a hard one because I don't remember ME1 being the most popular game in the world. ME2 flat out had the awesome story... ME3, well, kinda like this game without people freak'n out about vailed political stuff.
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Post by ddrguy300 on May 11, 2017 16:48:58 GMT
Considering the amount of work that still needed doing on this game with the release of BF2, though wrong, it doesn't surprise me/I always thought that this title was released when it was to create distance between release dates.
I guess a month of "trail by fire" was more attractive than 3 more months of development in the mind(s) of whomever decided to crank this out faster.
At least we got our patch.
Hopefully we get more character kits to fill in the game's rarity slots (so 7) and at least a few more maps before they call this one quits.
On the upside, the patch is doing good things for PR, this might lend motivation to dlc/new content.
So they're not abandoning ship. It's the titanic in an alternate universe - the max of 4 compartments got flooded instead of 5 (or was it 3 and 4?). We're not gonna drown/die, but we should think about getting people off soon and make the passengers comfortable until another boat/title comes along.
Edit: I'm probably wrong about all this according to what other people have said. Still, I like mine better. lol
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Post by dcihnagv3z on May 11, 2017 17:01:20 GMT
All just speculation on my part, but this may be a good thing for MEA, while perhaps a bad thing for the Mass Effect franchise. New Mass Effect titles sounds like they are many years down the road. But, we may get more focus and effort put into MEA's content. Perhaps some of the future sequel game content will be repurposed into updates to MEA.
I do have a little bubble of fear that due to the cold reception of MEA, and this recent move to reallocate resources of BioWare Montreal, will mean even less support for MEA. These kinds of moves are often preceding layoffs or closings.
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Post by xaijin on May 11, 2017 20:04:05 GMT
BTW, this is not real news, just click-bait for tech sites, because this happens FOR ALMOST EVERY GAME at this point. DLC is mostly or completely done already. Plus, the project they are being shifted to is ALREADY IN THE SAME BUILDING. Boring non-news to try and kick them while they're down, when they just did a mostly good thing and the best thing in weeks, is annoying to read and hear and try to argue against. If you want support to continue or even ramp up, then stop needlessly turning people off to the game by spreading click-bait garbage so that adoption and play rates demonstrate that it is worth the additional investment in this title to EA. A studio releasing contractors and repositioning to transition to DLC is normal. A studio being downgraded to content production only because they sold half the number of copies they were projected to is not even a kind of normal, and that has jack shit to do with "games journalism". A franchise not starting up on concepting when the initial piece on a continuing series is released is also not normal in any universe.
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Post by sctrojanbulldog on May 11, 2017 20:42:42 GMT
BTW, this is not real news, just click-bait for tech sites, because this happens FOR ALMOST EVERY GAME at this point. DLC is mostly or completely done already. Plus, the project they are being shifted to is ALREADY IN THE SAME BUILDING. Boring non-news to try and kick them while they're down, when they just did a mostly good thing and the best thing in weeks, is annoying to read and hear and try to argue against. If you want support to continue or even ramp up, then stop needlessly turning people off to the game by spreading click-bait garbage so that adoption and play rates demonstrate that it is worth the additional investment in this title to EA. A studio releasing contractors and repositioning to transition to DLC is normal. A studio being downgraded to content production only because they sold half the number of copies they were projected to is not even a kind of normal, and that has jack shit to do with "games journalism". A franchise not starting up on concepting when the initial piece on a continuing series is released is also not normal in any universe. This kinda ties into my ultimate fear and why I believe we'll never see another KOTOR. MEA's biggest asset was the good will from the ME series. That good will was somewhat tarnished with ME3's ending and some of the less creative plot points. SWTOR has destroyed any possibility of there being another KOTOR for the same reason. The next ME... if there is a next, will not have the hype to help sell copies from the get-go. It will have the exact opposite, pre-orders will not be coming, it will have more of a challenge than the first ME. Now, those on this board will buy it at some point, but it will have to be a very good game to be a day one purchase, and it will not be a pre-order, regardless of the attached incentives. This is why I believe there's going to be a break... One, to get some space between now and the eventual announcement of a sequel (and maybe some space for the game in development if it happens to be part of ME). And Two, once people have moved on, things will be reviewed, and if deemed favorable, moved forward. I also hope... REALLY HOPE!!!! that the ultimate lesson learned is: MAKE BETA TESTING OPEN!!!! get people to do this work (for free) and give you the feedback that millions of posters and legions youtube reviewers will provide if you don't get the issues corrected before launch. This whole embargo closed door approach is working against them and all publishers.
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Post by Kazu on May 11, 2017 20:47:04 GMT
I doubt this game only gets support for 4 more months and then they completely forget about it.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 11, 2017 20:54:47 GMT
So the Star Wars Battlefront model then?
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Post by sctrojanbulldog on May 11, 2017 21:12:11 GMT
I doubt this game only gets support for 4 more months and then they completely forget about it. Probably right... But, seriously, the support ME3MP received given that it was an experiment, that many were not to hot on in the beginning, was a freak of nature. Lightning doesn't strike twice. There's a very good argument that ME3 was saved by it's MP piece. That, that doesn't happen once for 99 percent of the games that attempt this, let alone twice. They've never been able to top Halo 2 MP in the Halo series. The good news is peer to peer allow the console crowed to play for a while.
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Post by 3rdpig on May 11, 2017 21:23:34 GMT
Before I became self employed I worked for several places that, after winning a big contract, would hire a bunch of people, get the work produced, then after delivery lay everyone off other than those needed for support for the delivered product. It was normal, expected and we always knew a month in advance what day it was going to happen, as well as who else had a big contract and needed skilled people who could hit the ground running. This was usually all on a 3-5 year timeline and as often not the next company to hire me was someone I'd already worked at before, had my name on file and had already contacted me because they knew I was likely to be laid off.
It was a bloody merry go round, and while I made a ton of money, I was glad when I finally got off it.
I'm betting the game business is much the same.
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Post by xaijin on May 11, 2017 21:35:11 GMT
Before I became self employed I worked for several places that, after winning a big contract, would hire a bunch of people, get the work produced, then after delivery lay everyone off other than those needed for support for the delivered product. It was normal, expected and we always knew a month in advance what day it was going to happen, as well as who else had a big contract and needed skilled people who could hit the ground running. This was usually all on a 3-5 year timeline and as often not the next company to hire me was someone I'd already worked at before, had my name on file and had already contacted me because they knew I was likely to be laid off. It was a bloody merry go round, and while I made a ton of money, I was glad when I finally got off it. I'm betting the game business is much the same. For contract workers, it's essentially exactly the same.
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Post by hanskey on May 11, 2017 21:35:55 GMT
That's exactly how it is and more so since EA is publicly traded. They are expected to be as efficient as possible at all times. Virtually the the only thing producing sales after release is microtransactions, but luckily EA has those and that's the only reason direct employees don't have quite the same level of cache-thrashing. That and they have multiple studios they can transition staff between, so internally it's the same story as contractors, obviously, minus the periods of collecting unemployment between projects.
Edit: Whatever, I'm done caring about this stupid story from Kotaku that has no independent corroboration and absolutely no fucking bearing whatsoever on the game I actually paid fucking money for, and going back to enjoying my patched Gold gameplay.
EA makes shitty decisions all the time and I'm not going to waste my time speculating on what they mean (aside from EA continuously trying things I don't like to get more money, more reliably, b/c, duh, that's the single motivation for literally everything they ever do, just like every other for-profit company on earth) and I'm definitely not going to bother with reading the tea leaves for 3 years from now based on click-bait trash. Remember how everyone said they'd killed ME with ME3, since they got hit with that lawsuit over SP? Yeah, well those predictions were bullshit and so are these. Oh wait, that's right, somehow in the last 5 years everyone seems to have forgotten how much hate there was for ME3 and what a huge flop it appeared to be.
That said, anyone can waste brain activity how they like, but this is a boring discussion unrelated to how much better this game is all of a sudden.
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Post by xaijin on May 11, 2017 22:42:23 GMT
I don't care about Kotaku and Kotaku isn't relevant. I know a person that works there and I know two people that used to work for Montreal and now don't, one whom left by accord when the game shipped and one whom expected to stay there for the foreseeable future. I could care less about politicized McCarthyistic tabloids.
ME3's second week sales dropped the highest of any AAA interactive media in GAME and Gamestop history until Colonial Marines was a thing, which has nothing to do with politicized 'journalism'; ME3MP's monetization scheme is now the industry standard which also has nothing to do with Kotaku.
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Post by hanskey on May 12, 2017 0:08:26 GMT
Sure. Of course. Whatever you say (dilligaf?)
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Post by crossedichelle on May 12, 2017 1:27:51 GMT
dramatic music swells
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Post by Nightman on May 12, 2017 1:55:06 GMT
I wouldn't be shocked if several current or former Bioware employees actually have accounts here and are currently reading this stuff while thinking " If they only knew " ....... ![](https://media.giphy.com/media/fECTyvPYevOHC/giphy.gif)
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Post by pantherdane on May 12, 2017 3:35:54 GMT
It's not unusual for huge publishers like EA to move people to projects where they are needed. Ongoing support + DLC development does not require the size of staff that full game development needs. So - they shift resources around. Don't know what to make of the "hiatus" comment. It might mean they are going to spend some time analyzing the fallout from MEA's release to try to get a better plan with which to go forward. My expectation is that they will continue to support MEA. This reminds me of D3. People were moved around in company and the fans were worried and speculated quite a bit. Years later and D3 still gets updates and seasonal changes. I think you are right, I expect there will still be patches and DLC like normal. I think its just normal business and they are keeping the fans informed.
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 7:39:58 GMT
So the Star Wars Battlefront model then? Can you elaborate that a little bit please?
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Post by SalMasRac on May 12, 2017 7:54:08 GMT
This reminds me of Midwest Express, owned by Honda Express, which was a subassembly plant for Honda of America in Marysville, Ohio. I worked there for a number of years.
Then one day, Honda Express sold the company to Tag Holding. They came in and either reassigned or let go all but ONE of our existing office staff, replacing them with their own personnel. Everyone below that top rung of leadership remained the same, did the same jobs, but the leadership itself was now different. And they (mis)managed things differently.
Though it was the same physical location, with the same workers, it was no longer the same company. And of course, quality was affected, among other things.
I'm sure this type of thing occurs in the business world all the time, in all imaginable mediums. What a great analogy of the EA acquisition of Bioware. Although it's the same place, perhaps with many of the same workers, and even a token celebrity persona or two, it is no longer the same company. It ceased to be the same company the day that EA acquired it.
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