pantherdane
N3
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Guilty until proven innocent.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 437 Likes: 585
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pantherdane
Guilty until proven innocent.
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pantherdane
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pantherdane on May 12, 2017 10:07:36 GMT
EXACTLY. Sal knows. Also, great use of parentheses.
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Ajax
N2
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Post by Ajax on May 12, 2017 10:09:58 GMT
Of course I'm not really going to ask. I feel sorry for anyone affected by this. Have been relegated to support / downsized before and it sucks. Anyone with some life experience knows what's it like to be "downsized". Problem is - and not to get too political here - everyone's saying "hurr American capitalism is cruel, doesn't care about people". To some extent that's unfortunately true. But Bioware lately and Mass Effect Andromeda specifically is a textbook example of Canadian capitalism - of what happens when you care about people too much. When you start hiring not on the basis of skill but empathy, sympathy, trying to help people with money, career growth etc. You run a beloved franchise to the ground, piss off milions of your fans and in the end you aren't really helping anyone coz all those sympathy hires are gonna lose their job anyway. And in their next job interview the HR dude takes one look at their CV, sees "worked on MEA" and says "We'll be in touch".
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 12, 2017 12:37:30 GMT
So the Star Wars Battlefront model then? Can you elaborate that a little bit please? Release game, support for a year, end support and move on. Released: November 2015 Battle of Jakku: December 2015 Outer Rim: March 2016 Bespin: June 2016 Death Star: September 2016 Rogue One: Scarif: December 2016 <-- OK so it was 13 months but they had the movie tie-in Except I don't think MEA will get a year. Maybe 6 months?
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 12:42:16 GMT
Can you elaborate that a little bit please? Release game, support for a year, end support and move on. Released: November 2015 Battle of Jakku: December 2015 Outer Rim: March 2016 Bespin: June 2016 Death Star: September 2016 Rogue One: Scarif: December 2016 <-- OK so it was 13 months but they had the movie tie-in Except I don't think MEA will get a year. Maybe 6 months? While I see why EA would want to cut losses as much as they can it would be really said if that would be the end of the franchise for the next years. Furthermore that practice you just showed is a slap to the face for everybody who cares about games on a certain level.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 12, 2017 12:55:35 GMT
MEA is a bad game and it's not making much money.
Let's parameterize:
$product$ is a bad $product$ and it's not making much money.
Any rational business would decide not to continue to support $product$.
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 13:00:54 GMT
From the logical perspective what you said is right and the decision is only rational. Yet that is nothing what I personal would like for this franchise, hence I am conflicted. I try to bypass the conflict with wishful thinking until the unevitable happens.
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Post by sctrojanbulldog on May 12, 2017 14:11:55 GMT
Release game, support for a year, end support and move on. Released: November 2015 Battle of Jakku: December 2015 Outer Rim: March 2016 Bespin: June 2016 Death Star: September 2016 Rogue One: Scarif: December 2016 <-- OK so it was 13 months but they had the movie tie-in Except I don't think MEA will get a year. Maybe 6 months? While I see why EA would want to cut losses as much as they can it would be really said if that would be the end of the franchise for the next years. Furthermore that practice you just showed is a slap to the face for everybody who cares about games on a certain level. As much as I'd like to pound EA for loss cutting moves.... SWTOR still exists... Soooo, they tend to stick it through the planned lifecycle. I do believe that this game will receive only one year of support... as a poster mentioned earlier. This fits the model of most of their games including their most successful: Madden. I honestly believe that EA and Bioware made the decision to collect themselves. Honor the current commitments and don't make new ones until clarity is achieved. I also believe that the next ME will be three to five years down the road; produced by a different team. That's not a value statement on the current team, but hey, in some respects, the current guys may not want to have anything to do with the series. You also have to account that they will be gun shy given their games reception. They are human beings... which I think has been lost with a lot of shameless reviewers. I do believe that this game received undeserved criticism and was a "popular" game to hate. Many game sites used this game to inflate their relevance through criticism. It was way out of hand. I PLAY the game and can tell many of these "reviewers" have not. Hell, my biggest gripe was gun and power damage in multiplayer... Everything else was a tad trivial and was fixed in 1.05. Guns were fixed in 1.06; which, we kinda felt was going to happen as this was the natural evolution of ME3MP. Now, here's where I believe the biggest mistake was made. They shut down their official boards. The communication gap between players, reviewers, and devs allowed a lot of people to "fill in the gaps" and create explanations in the void. That was and is a HUGE misstep. I'll tell you right now, there are games out that are only alive because of the dev interaction with their community "Elite Dangerous" for example. And you know what, that's also one of the big reason ME3 was so successful. This is where Bioware and EA have missed the boat.
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Post by lennybusker on May 12, 2017 14:31:09 GMT
If this is anything more than standard post-launch downsizing, I think it's not great for MEA but ultimately good for Mass Effect, as it could signify that EA/BW management has seen that many problems were due to (lack of) project oversight and the process needs a retooling.
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 15:03:38 GMT
As much as I'd like to pound EA for loss cutting moves.... SWTOR still exists... Soooo, they tend to stick it through the planned lifecycle. I do believe that this game will receive only one year of support... as a poster mentioned earlier. This fits the model of most of their games including their most successful: Madden. I understand how yearly updates make sense in sport games, madden is still the football thingy i assume. But is there also a sense of progress in playing that kind of game in multiplayer?
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Beerfish
N7
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,107 Likes: 36,082
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Little Pumpkin
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Beerfish
15,107
August 2016
beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on May 12, 2017 15:16:21 GMT
while the Mass Effect series itself has been put "on hiatus."Good bye Mass Effect. ![:crying:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/DXYvYKTKTfCBEhHGFvDL.png)
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Beerfish
N7
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,107 Likes: 36,082
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15,107
August 2016
beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on May 12, 2017 15:19:50 GMT
MEA is a bad game and it's not making much money. Let's parameterize: $product$ is a bad $product$ and it's not making much money. Any rational business would decide not to continue to support $product$. You simply cannot treat one game in a serous all as one offs though, unless you are putting the series on 'hiatus' If you have hopes for an ongoing franchise you have to bite the bullet and support it, having said that, that is old school economics where long term viability of a product was important rather than some CEO getting his fat bonus for this years share price.
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 12, 2017 15:23:41 GMT
You simply cannot treat one game in a serous all as one offs though, unless you are putting the series on 'hiatus' If you have hopes for an ongoing franchise you have to bite the bullet and support it, having said that, that is old school economics where long term viability of a product was important rather than some CEO getting his fat bonus for this years share price. True. I am vastly oversimplifying, of course. Product line management is a tricky business. Also don't kid yourself about the good old days. Businesses were just as short-sighted and greedy in the 1900s 1800s 1700s you get the idea as they are now.
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Post by sctrojanbulldog on May 12, 2017 15:24:33 GMT
As much as I'd like to pound EA for loss cutting moves.... SWTOR still exists... Soooo, they tend to stick it through the planned lifecycle. I do believe that this game will receive only one year of support... as a poster mentioned earlier. This fits the model of most of their games including their most successful: Madden. I understand how yearly updates make sense in sport games, madden is still the football thingy i assume. But is there also a sense of progress in playing that kind of game in multiplayer? Madden is a annual roster patch with minor updates. The game has moved towards an arcade feel. I rarely pay for the game and wait until it's free on access. They also have limited the number of players you can add so you can't do your own roster updates after the draft... They have an online season mode and regular game... but unless you want to have it handed to you by a 12 year old... or have a 12 year old rage quit on ya in the first quarter... it's kinda blah. I'm also more of a college fan so I have place all my university alumns on the same team to get into any real franchise or even exhibition... But, to my original point, EA has a defined support cycle for games before release. Adjustments can be made afterwards (which I feel was done with ME3MP), but we'll only received what was planned pre release for MEA... and I assume, six months to a year to be the planned support (content wise).
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 15:29:34 GMT
Thank you for providing additional insight.
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Post by shinobiwan on May 12, 2017 15:30:30 GMT
MEA is a bad game and it's not making much money. Let's parameterize: $product$ is a bad $product$ and it's not making much money. Any rational business would decide not to continue to support $product$. I agree, but also keep in mind that Mass Effect is a valuable IP in the abstract and they still have an interest in stemming the bleeding on brand damage - to both the ME IP and to Bioware's brand name. If this was a brand new IP with a brand new studio, yeah, support would be cut no questions asked. I think we'll see some support for MEA though for the reasons above, although certainly nowhere near the level of ME3 (or even DAI most likely).
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Post by JRandall0308 on May 12, 2017 15:38:44 GMT
You can damage a brand and keep it going.
Windows 8 was a disaster, people kept buying Windows. (Please let's not start an OS war, just an example.)
You can also have forgettable brand extensions that don't really damage the brand but are just... forgettable.
Crystal Pepsi anyone?
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Beerfish
N7
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,107 Likes: 36,082
inherit
Little Pumpkin
314
0
36,082
Beerfish
15,107
August 2016
beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Beerfish
Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on May 12, 2017 15:59:53 GMT
You simply cannot treat one game in a serous all as one offs though, unless you are putting the series on 'hiatus' If you have hopes for an ongoing franchise you have to bite the bullet and support it, having said that, that is old school economics where long term viability of a product was important rather than some CEO getting his fat bonus for this years share price. True. I am vastly oversimplifying, of course. Product line management is a tricky business. Also don't kid yourself about the good old days. Businesses were just as short-sighted and greedy in the 1900s 1800s 1700s you get the idea as they are now. Greedy yes but the object of the game in those times was to build a business and make a lot of money from the products you created long term, then pass the business down the line. Now the object is to make your business profitable enough for someone else to buy you out for a huge amount of money. And for the larger entities it is to boost share price so you get a rich from your short term incentives. People still try and apply old world economics to the new paradigm and they are not the same.
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Post by hanskey on May 12, 2017 16:45:56 GMT
While I see why EA would want to cut losses as much as they can it would be really said if that would be the end of the franchise for the next years. Furthermore that practice you just showed is a slap to the face for everybody who cares about games on a certain level. As much as I'd like to pound EA for loss cutting moves.... SWTOR still exists... Soooo, they tend to stick it through the planned lifecycle. I do believe that this game will receive only one year of support... as a poster mentioned earlier. This fits the model of most of their games including their most successful: Madden. I honestly believe that EA and Bioware made the decision to collect themselves. Honor the current commitments and don't make new ones until clarity is achieved. I also believe that the next ME will be three to five years down the road; produced by a different team. That's not a value statement on the current team, but hey, in some respects, the current guys may not want to have anything to do with the series. You also have to account that they will be gun shy given their games reception. They are human beings... which I think has been lost with a lot of shameless reviewers. I do believe that this game received undeserved criticism and was a "popular" game to hate. Many game sites used this game to inflate their relevance through criticism. It was way out of hand. I PLAY the game and can tell many of these "reviewers" have not. Hell, my biggest gripe was gun and power damage in multiplayer... Everything else was a tad trivial and was fixed in 1.05. Guns were fixed in 1.06; which, we kinda felt was going to happen as this was the natural evolution of ME3MP. Now, here's where I believe the biggest mistake was made. They shut down their official boards. The communication gap between players, reviewers, and devs allowed a lot of people to "fill in the gaps" and create explanations in the void. That was and is a HUGE misstep. I'll tell you right now, there are games out that are only alive because of the dev interaction with their community "Elite Dangerous" for example. And you know what, that's also one of the big reason ME3 was so successful. This is where Bioware and EA have missed the boat. Agreed. They made a huge PR blunder by giving up the ability to control the conversation and set expectations. It's so basic that you can only conclude they just wanted to spend as little resources as possible on this game, so they could knock their new Star Wars title out of the park with a much larger investment. I will virtually guarantee that there is also some amount of competitors feeding the fire in the background with their own PR moves, that then gets spewed out of tech "journalism" sites.
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Post by colonelkungpao on May 12, 2017 17:06:45 GMT
To me, this can be summed up as "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
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Salarian Master Pimp
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, KOTOR
SalMasRac
PurpGuy
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Post by SalMasRac on May 12, 2017 17:43:11 GMT
Of course I'm not really going to ask. I feel sorry for anyone affected by this. Have been relegated to support / downsized before and it sucks. Anyone with some life experience knows what's it like to be "downsized". Problem is - and not to get too political here - everyone's saying "hurr American capitalism is cruel, doesn't care about people". To some extent that's unfortunately true. But Bioware lately and Mass Effect Andromeda specifically is a textbook example of Canadian capitalism - of what happens when you care about people too much. When you start hiring not on the basis of skill but empathy, sympathy, trying to help people with money, career growth etc. You run a beloved franchise to the ground, piss off milions of your fans and in the end you aren't really helping anyone coz all those sympathy hires are gonna lose their job anyway. And in their next job interview the HR dude takes one look at their CV, sees "worked on MEA" and says "We'll be in touch". America needs to be downsized. Congress? You're fired.
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 17:55:10 GMT
You can damage a brand and keep it going. Windows 8 was a disaster, people kept buying Windows. (Please let's not start an OS war, just an example.) You can also have forgettable brand extensions that don't really damage the brand but are just... forgettable. Crystal Pepsi anyone? Is that Crystal Meth + Pepsi?
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Post by hanskey on May 12, 2017 17:57:43 GMT
Well NOW it is.
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Post by SalMasRac on May 12, 2017 18:22:34 GMT
You can damage a brand and keep it going. Windows 8 was a disaster, people kept buying Windows. (Please let's not start an OS war, just an example.) You can also have forgettable brand extensions that don't really damage the brand but are just... forgettable. Crystal Pepsi anyone? Is that Crystal Meth + Pepsi? And Coca-Cola had cocaine in it. Now they just call it Coke. What did that accomplish?
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kazu
Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
IOrzhov
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Post by Kazu on May 12, 2017 18:24:11 GMT
Is that Crystal Meth + Pepsi? And Coca-Cola had cocaine in it. Now they just call it Coke. What did that accomplish? You can point out an accidental connection between drug addiction and sugar addiction because they are both substance based addictions?
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Post by hanskey on May 12, 2017 18:25:28 GMT
sugar is 9 times more addictive than crack, btw.
#notanaccident
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