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Post by Terminator Force on May 17, 2017 17:45:02 GMT
Oh yeah. Mass Effect 2 gave me a world I wish was real so I could visit to experience first hand.
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Post by alanc9 on May 17, 2017 17:50:37 GMT
Either way Shepards original body would have been paste after crashing through the atmosphere and falling all the way to the surface of the planet. I don't know how in the world they could resurrect it. We know Cerberus was already trying to create clones of Shepard any way, due to the imperfect one that shows up in Citadel in ME3. So why now ME2 and ME3 Shepard being the perfected one? The math doesn't necessarily check out for paste. Terminal velocity for a tumbling body on a world with Alchera's gravity and atmosphere is fairly low, not much more than 100 m.p.h. You'd still need some mass effect field help to keeps stuff intact, but the suit's batteries wouldn't have failed yet. (Atmospheric entry's not really an issue; since Normandy was never in orbit, velocity relative to Alchera is whatever Bio needs it to be.) Doesn't matter anyway; decay of the dead brain is plenty on its own to render the project space magic.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 18:55:11 GMT
As I said repeatedly. Bioware's stories never were Pulitzer material. They weren't the next great novel either. No game I ever played by any developer fit that description. And, frankly, I don't give a shit. I'm ready to suspend disbelief at every step of the way. I've really never understood why anyone views BioWare as being huge with the storytelling. I find their stories serviceable, and don't play games to be told a story. What I do appreciate about BioWare includes their characters and world-building. I think ME:A's characters are as well-written and acted as any other BioWare game. We also got a lot more content with them than previous games - the LMs, the banter, the additional meetings, seeing them at various ports. I think the primary reason why a lot of people view them as bland is due to lack of engagement with Ryder. If you're not into Ryder, you're probably not going to care all that much about the other people around her. Reasons for the lack of investment in Ryder may include: - The limited CC. - Animation issues. - Ryder is too soft/too beta/too juvenile/too inexperienced/too whatever/not Shepard. Jmho.
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Post by heathenoxman on May 17, 2017 18:59:17 GMT
No, it wasn't. I personally find ME2 as overrated as ME:A is underrated, but YMMV. Still love both for what they are tho. Yup. Personally, ME2 remains my least favorite of the series. Main story silly and too short. Limited squadmate interactions. Galaxy in peril and have to keep stopping to deal with daddy issues. Blech. Still liked it though, but I'd rate MEA over ME2.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 19:03:43 GMT
Well Mass Effect 2 is one of my top 5 favourite games, so yes!
Again if you like ME:A better than ME:2, then that is great, you do you! BUT, Mass Effect 2 is a well crafted game and there is a reason it makes top 10 on most top 100 RPG lists.
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Post by projectpatdc on May 17, 2017 21:04:03 GMT
I think that ME2 could be considered as a revolutionary and groundbreaking game for when it got released whereas ME:A right now places itself somewhere in the middle-segment of enjoyable but ultimately-a-bit-flawed games. (This is based on the general reactions on the forums here and the professional critic scores on websites as metacritic.) ME:A still has its strong points though and even surpasses ME2 on certain aspects, like gameplay. I think that that is only logical though, given the 7 years in between the release of both games. What I do believe however, is that ME:A simply didn't improve enough and is flat out worse than ME2 in some other areas. This is especially apparent when it comes to the story. (I'm not talking about how logical the story is and if there are any plotholes, I'm talking about the place the story has in the game and how strong it is in binding players to it. ME2 was completely centered around the main plot whilst ME:A's main story almost never felt bigger than another sidequest. The game just got too clouded with all the Open World content for the story to really stand out.) It really depends on what you value in a game. They both have their strong, and weaker points. It also doesn't help for ME2 that it is an older game. I don't feel that it's that apparent right now but one can see that it is ageing in certain aspects. So for people whom are now beginning with the franchise, ME:A might and probably will come out on top as the better game. and in some aspects, it objectively is. But for people who where there when ME2 got released chances are they will still like ME2 more. Even though this is of course looking through the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia in a certain way, I still think there is a grain of truth there as well. ME2 was, and in some ways still is a groundbreaking game. One which will be remembered in the lists of best videogames of all time for a long time to come. (even if you didn't like it yourself that much, this is the status the game simply has.) I'm not so sure about that with ME:A however. So it depends on what you value in a game and when you first played a Mass Effect game. I think fans of the OT will vote more for ME2, (with some exceptions of course), but that new players will be quicker to vote for ME:A because the older games are ageing a little bit. The exceptions in the 'I played the OT first but still like ME:A more' department are probably the ones which liked ME1 more than ME2 to begin with. Both games are quite different when it comes to design and gameplay and ME1 simply more closely resembles ME:A than ME2 does. Therefore, my conclusion is that it is practically impossible to establish which game is better right now. I also don't really see the point. All I can do is point out that at the time of its release, ME2 got a lot more praise than ME:A does now. If that actually means that ME2 is the better game remains to be seen. Personal preferences, I guess. MEA is the only game I know of that has multiple open world maps on various planets, weapon and armor crafting and customization, RPG statistics, 2000+ ability combinations for any type of play style, has a blend of both linear story missions and open world gameplay, has a good amount of attention to detail when it comes to space exploration and immersion, has dialogue trees, a decent and intriguing story, with over 100 hrs of story content, settlement mechanics, offroad driving, squad abilities and commands, mini games, dungeons, excellent combat, above average AI, multiple HUB worlds, and your own systemic ship to fly around the galaxy. I would say, objectively, no other game even comes close to being even remotely close to same game as Mass Effect Andromeda besides other Mass Effects and maybe DAI. It seems like "revolutionary and groundbreaking" is subjectively talking about story and dialogue. That's fine, but story is only part of what makes a game good. ME2's other mechanics were nothing revolutionary for that time. I wouldn't say that one single mechanic in MEA is revolutionary either and that's fine. What makes Mass Effect great and especially MEA, IMO, is how it blends all these mechanics together to present a space exploration game that no other game has ever done. People bash MEA but it's really one of a kind. Really good post! Like you said, it does seem to come down to the person's preferences of what they like in video games. At the core, MEA is a Mass Effect game, but it's very different from the OT objectively.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 21:13:41 GMT
As I said repeatedly. Bioware's stories never were Pulitzer material. They weren't the next great novel either. No game I ever played by any developer fit that description. And, frankly, I don't give a shit. I'm ready to suspend disbelief at every step of the way. I've really never understood why anyone views BioWare as being huge with the storytelling. I find their stories serviceable, and don't play games to be told a story. What I do appreciate about BioWare includes their characters and world-building. I think ME:A's characters are as well-written and acted as any other BioWare game. We also got a lot more content with them than previous games - the LMs, the banter, the additional meetings, seeing them at various ports. I think the primary reason why a lot of people view them as bland is due to lack of engagement with Ryder. If you're not into Ryder, you're probably not going to care all that much about the other people around her. Reasons for the lack of investment in Ryder may include: - The limited CC. - Animation issues. - Ryder is too soft/too beta/too juvenile/too inexperienced/too whatever/not Shepard. Jmho.
The companions are objectively milder than in the earlier games (save for ME1). They do not have the obviously negative reactions to something Ryder does apart from mild disapproval, they do not quit even for a time and become unavailable; they do not have dialogues were they raise their voices even among themselves when they argue; they do not unload tragic stories of tragedy on Ryder; and all of them (literally) have Zen voices (and Jaal extremely so); they do not fight Ryder (apart from PeeBee's abortive attack). They are carefully designed to avoid hate portion of love/hate equation even at a risk of not soliciting love. I do like most of them, but spice would be nice, and Reyes is the only one that provides. Off the ship.
After ME2 and DA2, it's hard not to find larger than life/drama mongering characters. I've missed that already in ME3, tbh.
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2017 21:17:56 GMT
squad abilities and commands, The removal of the power wheel is a step backwards. I was able to have a squadmate use whatever power against one enemy while the other squadmate uses whatever power against another enemy. Can't do that in MEA
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Post by projectpatdc on May 17, 2017 21:20:44 GMT
squad abilities and commands, The removal of the power wheel is a step backwards. I was able to have a squadmate use whatever power against one enemy while the other squadmate uses whatever power against another enemy. Can't do that in MEA You're right. But what I was saying is what other game in the past two or three years has all those mechanics in place working cohesively together? Besides DAI, what other game gives you multiple companions to always play with and account for?
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2017 21:40:51 GMT
You're right. But what I was saying is what other game in the past two or three years has all those mechanics in place working cohesively together? Besides DAI, what other game gives you multiple companions to always play with and account for? Since I haven't played every game that has been released in the past 3 years, I don't know.
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Post by yan on May 17, 2017 21:52:49 GMT
uou, Andromeda must be really bad, to people consider the worst ME of history as better than it.
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Post by RoboticWater on May 17, 2017 21:56:51 GMT
The removal of the power wheel is a step backwards. I was able to have a squadmate use whatever power against one enemy while the other squadmate uses whatever power against another enemy. Can't do that in MEA You're right. But what I was saying is what other game in the past two or three years has all those mechanics in place working cohesively together? Besides DAI, what other game gives you multiple companions to always play with and account for? Dragon's Dogma has a companion system that completely outstrips Andromeda's, and that game came out in 2012. It also had vastly more complex ability customization and enemy variety, decent open world exploration, and a surprisingly good movement system. Granted, it doesn't have the story and production value of a BioWare game, but I'm fairly certain that comes down to a difference in budget. And to be honest, all the stuff you listed is everywhere now: just about every game has RPG stats, plenty have obligatory crafting, and TellTale games have spoiled people on dialog trees. ME2 worked because it was a juggling act that no one was really doing at the time. Andromeda's act isn't unique at all, and it isn't even especially good. Hell, most of the stuff you listed has been in the last few Far Crys. What could have set Andromeda apart from the mass of adventure games is having either consistently excellent writing like The Witcher 3 or excellently crafted gameplay mechanics like Breath of the Wild.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 22:51:31 GMT
I've really never understood why anyone views BioWare as being huge with the storytelling. I find their stories serviceable, and don't play games to be told a story. What I do appreciate about BioWare includes their characters and world-building. I think ME:A's characters are as well-written and acted as any other BioWare game. We also got a lot more content with them than previous games - the LMs, the banter, the additional meetings, seeing them at various ports. I think the primary reason why a lot of people view them as bland is due to lack of engagement with Ryder. If you're not into Ryder, you're probably not going to care all that much about the other people around her. Reasons for the lack of investment in Ryder may include: - The limited CC. - Animation issues. - Ryder is too soft/too beta/too juvenile/too inexperienced/too whatever/not Shepard. Jmho. The companions are objectively milder than in the earlier games (save for ME1). Objectively milder? I don't think so. When was that ever different in ME? ME has never had an approval/disapproval system like DA. Jaal wouldn't speak to Ryder for a period of time, and neither would Drack - due to some decisions they didn't like. I don't remember that ever happening in the trilogy. Followers would occasionally present different points of view in MET (examples: saving the rachni, saving the council) to help with the decision making, but outside of that the only confrontations were few and far between. Miranda/Jack because Cerberus, Legion/Tali because quarian/geth, and Liara/Javik. DA2 also had some of that because they used followers to represent different sides of the mage freedom debate. Do you take Liam out much? I was really surprised at the way he talked to Vetra in the Nomad (this was after her loyalty mission). For followers to go at each other really isn't something I expect. The Tempest isn't the SSV Daddy Issues. Some of the characters have experienced some difficulties that they share with Ryder. I've no idea what this means, though I agree that Jaal's VA was overly melodramatic. Why should they? Peebee is certainly controversial, as is Liam. I really don't understand the love affair with Reyes. Shrug.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 22:58:16 GMT
Jaal wouldn't speak to Ryder for a period of time, and neither would Drack - due to some decisions they didn't like. I don't remember that ever happening in the trilogy. In Jaal's case this was very poorly executed though, If you anger Jaal twice (destroy the facilty + shooting Akksul) he becomes very upset and no longer wishes to speak with Ryder.. but this only counts for his regular shipboard dialogue. his scripted conversations and main plot dialogue remain unchanged, even in the epilogue he acts like he's grown very close but back on Tempest he refues to talk to Ryder, Very poorly indeed. They should have had the guts and make Jaal permantly leave you company if you make to many decisions against his Wishes, the fact that we can't dismiss or dispose of any of our team is dissapointing to me. Every previous game a had least a couple of such moments.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 17, 2017 23:07:37 GMT
Jaal wouldn't speak to Ryder for a period of time, and neither would Drack - due to some decisions they didn't like. I don't remember that ever happening in the trilogy. In Jaal's case this was very poorly executed though, If you anger Jaal twice (destroy the facilty + shooting Akksul) he becomes very upset and no longer wishes to speak with Ryder.. but this only counts for his regular shipboard dialogue. his scripted conversations and main plot dialogue remain unchanged, even in the epilogue he acts like he's grown very close but back on Tempest he refues to talk to Ryder, Very poorly indeed. They should have had the guts and make Jaal permantly leave you company if you make to many decisions against his Wishes, the fact that we can't dismiss or dispose of any of our team is dissapointing to me. Every previous game a had least a couple of such moments. Go back to Dragon Age, weirdo! No but seriously, I think that a game with decisions/morality systems should have some kind of proper approval system in place. Even with Jaal's alt ship dialogue, we didn't really have one. This is why I love DA's companion dialogue. Sometimes it's more entertaining when the character is pissed off or calls the PC out on certain things you've done, and like you suggest, possibly leave. It would have been interesting if we got to Aya, and a pissed off Jaal basically confronts you at docks and basically tells you he's out. Making the deal at the end of Dissension in the Ranks would be the perfect opportunity.
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Post by colfoley on May 17, 2017 23:11:40 GMT
In thinking about it I've come to the conclusion that mea would probably be the better game if it weren't for the suicide mission. The suicide mission raised a tier 2 game into a tier 1.
Granted MEAs end mission also raised a tier 2 game into a tier 1 game. But it's been legitimately a much funner experience. It's side missions are fun and interesting and it has several well excuted sub plots.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:15:58 GMT
Jaal wouldn't speak to Ryder for a period of time, and neither would Drack - due to some decisions they didn't like. I don't remember that ever happening in the trilogy. In Jaal's case this was very poorly executed though, If you anger Jaal twice (destroy the facilty + shooting Akksul) he becomes very upset and no longer wishes to speak with Ryder.. but this only counts for his regular shipboard dialogue. his scripted conversations and main plot dialogue remain unchanged, even in the epilogue he acts like he's grown very close but back on Tempest he refues to talk to Ryder, Very poorly indeed. They should have had the guts and make Jaal permantly leave you company if you make to many decisions against his Wishes, That's kind of a tough one, imho. Jaal's presence was needed to help Ryder and the Ai gain the trust of the angarans. Plus Jaal's character arc involved learning to trust Ryder, which could not have happened if he stomped off mad. Note, too, that one of the decisions Jaal can get pouty over has Ryder taking the Moshae's advice rather than Jaal's preference. There were some you weren't required to recruit - and you didn't have to take back the VS after the Citadel coup - but I don't remember any occasions when Shepard could boot a squad member.
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2017 23:23:43 GMT
There were some you weren't required to recruit - and you didn't have to take back the VS after the Citadel coup - but I don't remember any occasions when Shepard could boot a squad member. The stowaway I would kick off the ship for the crap she pulled with the escape pod. I would have made it an option not to recruit her. With Liam the Loser, I would turn him over to Nexus security for what he did. Hopefully the sequel will give the main character the option to not recruit squadmates. If not, I would put in the option to kick a squadmate off the ship.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 17, 2017 23:24:13 GMT
In thinking about it I've come to the conclusion that mea would probably be the better game if it weren't for the suicide mission. The suicide mission raised a tier 2 game into a tier 1. Granted MEAs end mission also raised a tier 2 game into a tier 1 game. But it's been legitimately a much funner experience. It's side missions are fun and interesting and it has several well excuted sub plots. Eh, the Suicide Mission is really good, but ME2 has lots of memorable moments that make it a fan favorite, and honestly, there are parts of ME2 that retain their luster much better than the Suicide Mission does, in my opinion. A properly good endgame is more like icing on the cake. Personally none of these games are as good, to me, as the endgame of Dragon Age: Origins. The team splitting up to defend the gates of Denerim while our Warden & Co battles through the city was vastly more satisfying, I think in part because it wasn't punctuated by a shitty boss (human reaper) or a dumb last minute decision.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:26:57 GMT
the fact that we can't dismiss or dispose of any of our team is dissapointing to me. Every previous game a had least a couple of such moments. There were some you weren't required to recruit - and you didn't have to take back the VS after the Citadel coup - but I don't remember any occasions when Shepard could boot a squad member. Choosing Kaidan over Ashley and vice versa, killing Wrex, Bascially the entire suicide mission, siding with Geth on Rannoch. Pretty much all these examples can be interpreted as a way Shepard is 'firing' a certain squadmember.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 17, 2017 23:37:16 GMT
I don't think I can make an informed opinion about whether or not ME2 was better. I'd only played ME2 as the middle of a completed trilogy and with all its bugs fixed and dlc included. Once MEA is fully patched and has whatever dlc they have to offer THEN I'll be in a position to let you know. I wasn't playing ME2 at Day One like I was with MEA.
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Post by djbare on May 17, 2017 23:37:54 GMT
I like them all, my only issue with ME:A, they ruined it by releasing a buggy mess and poor animations, I got it cheap, it was fun, it's a good game, just not what it was supposed to be, a great game.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 17, 2017 23:40:17 GMT
There were some you weren't required to recruit - and you didn't have to take back the VS after the Citadel coup - but I don't remember any occasions when Shepard could boot a squad member. Choosing Kaidan over Ashley and vice versa, killing Wrex, Bascially the entire suicide mission, siding with Geth on Rannoch. Pretty much all these examples can be interpreted as a way Shepard is 'firing' a certain squadmember. Yeah, choosing the geth over the quarians definitely "fires" Tali. I remember the first time that happened I freaked out and had to reload to get a different outcome. I can deal with a dead Legion (not a choice anyway) but not a dead Tali.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 23:46:24 GMT
There were some you weren't required to recruit - and you didn't have to take back the VS after the Citadel coup - but I don't remember any occasions when Shepard could boot a squad member. Choosing Kaidan over Ashley and vice versa, killing Wrex, Bascially the entire suicide mission, siding with Geth on Rannoch. Pretty much all these examples can be interpreted as a way Shepard is 'firing' a certain squadmember. I'll give you Wrex, even though killing someone is not equivalent to firing them. Any other losses are fatalities of war. People who are fired usually don't have their names displayed on memorial walls... just sayin'.
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Post by themikefest on May 17, 2017 23:50:56 GMT
Yeah, choosing the geth over the quarians definitely "fires" Tali. I remember the first time that happened I freaked out and had to reload to get a different outcome. I can deal with a dead Legion (not a choice anyway) but not a dead Tali. Tali has no one to blame but herself. She stands there like the idiot she is while the geth uploads the code instead of making an effort to stop it to save her species. Shepard doesn't fire her. She fires herself.
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