Arcian
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Arcian on Sept 11, 2016 11:04:08 GMT
Apart from the prefabs everyting else is assumptions with little to no base in the game (as i said before we know nothing about the story). Yep, this.
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Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Sept 11, 2016 11:09:57 GMT
Of course it will be a human centered story, it is an entertainment product for the wide masses that costs a shit ton of money if you like it or not, so better do something that new players or non-fans can relate to to get more easily invested. The story centering around humanity isn't the problem, the problem Mass Effect has is the tendency to portray humanity as special and at least equal in capability compared to the other species, despite the other species having settled the stars for two thousand years. Yeah, it draws a lot of uncomfortable parallels to the white saviour concept, with humans in place of the white man and the aliens in the place of non-whites.
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Xerxes52
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Post by Xerxes52 on Sept 11, 2016 11:40:15 GMT
So, all aboard the HFY train to Andromeda? Choo Choo!
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Sept 11, 2016 12:44:07 GMT
I believe that, for now, is also a assumption Arcian.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Sept 11, 2016 18:32:07 GMT
I'll admit the flaw still applies to an extent in Mass Effect 2 but I still consider them more or less a bland race because outside of Kasumi, I felt humanity lost a lot of characterization they'd had in the first game. It began to feel like they expected you to care about Mass Effect's humanity simply because they were humans but that dosen't work for me because they aren't real life humans so I don't care about them simply because they exist.
Earth, I felt, was a pretty egregious example of this. We've only ever seen Mass Effect's Earth from space and we've never been able to set foot on Earth yet it felt like they wanted us to be invested in Earth. Compare Earth to the Citadel: the Citadel was a hub that players could and did visit in each of the games. The players could explore it and they saw it change over time. including from events that had occured. They met people who lived there. It was the stage for important events like meeting companions and Shepard becoming a Spectre to name a few. I was personally invested in the Citadel because of all of that allowed me to built a connection with it.
Example: when I heard that Cerberus (I still wonder how) or the Reapers had taken the Citadel, I was worried about some of the people I'd met there and hoping they had made it to safety. I still wanted to know by the end of the game.
I agree about Earth; our investment in it was rather forced/expected of the player, which is especially egregious considering 2/3 Shepards aren't even from there. Yes, it's the human homeworld, but roleplaying demands that we would get the option of treating it like any other heavily populated/strategically important planet, or be more invested in it, like the game wanted. I agree completely about the Citadel as well. That was really our "homeworld" throughout the trilogy, other than the Normandy(s). We explored it, met its inhabitants, and saw it change. Unfortunately, Bioware presented its capture by the Reapers in the opposite way of the Geth attack in ME1 - that is: they didn't. We didn't see any clips of people fighting Reaper ground forces there, or being scared, there were no mentions by any characters of familiar characters on the Citadel including the council you may have gone out of your way to protect before... Just... nothing. It's treated more like it's an uninhabited attachment to the Crucible rather than a colossal space station with millions of people aboard. This treatment isn't changed even when huge portions of it are destroyed/crippled in the endings, and we still don't know what happened to the characters there!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 11, 2016 19:14:44 GMT
I'll admit the flaw still applies to an extent in Mass Effect 2 but I still consider them more or less a bland race because outside of Kasumi, I felt humanity lost a lot of characterization they'd had in the first game. It began to feel like they expected you to care about Mass Effect's humanity simply because they were humans but that dosen't work for me because they aren't real life humans so I don't care about them simply because they exist.
Earth, I felt, was a pretty egregious example of this. We've only ever seen Mass Effect's Earth from space and we've never been able to set foot on Earth yet it felt like they wanted us to be invested in Earth. Compare Earth to the Citadel: the Citadel was a hub that players could and did visit in each of the games. The players could explore it and they saw it change over time. including from events that had occured. They met people who lived there. It was the stage for important events like meeting companions and Shepard becoming a Spectre to name a few. I was personally invested in the Citadel because of all of that allowed me to built a connection with it.
Example: when I heard that Cerberus (I still wonder how) or the Reapers had taken the Citadel, I was worried about some of the people I'd met there and hoping they had made it to safety. I still wanted to know by the end of the game.
I agree about Earth; our investment in it was rather forced/expected of the player, which is especially egregious considering 2/3 Shepards aren't even from there. Yes, it's the human homeworld, but roleplaying demands that we would get the option of treating it like any other heavily populated/strategically important planet, or be more invested in it, like the game wanted. I agree completely about the Citadel as well. That was really our "homeworld" throughout the trilogy, other than the Normandy(s). We explored it, met its inhabitants, and saw it change. Unfortunately, Bioware presented its capture by the Reapers in the opposite way of the Geth attack in ME1 - that is: they didn't. We didn't see any clips of people fighting Reaper ground forces there, or being scared, there were no mentions by any characters of familiar characters on the Citadel including the council you may have gone out of your way to protect before... Just... nothing. It's treated more like it's an uninhabited attachment to the Crucible rather than a colossal space station with millions of people aboard. This treatment isn't changed even when huge portions of it are destroyed/crippled in the endings, and we still don't know what happened to the characters there! Not quite true on the last part. While we don't learn ingame, Bioware did tell us what happened to the people there. They said that the Citadel has shelters built into it, and many inhabitants made it into them and survived. Basically, any named character who was on the Citadel survived the end of ME3(unless you choose Refuse).
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Post by shechinah on Sept 11, 2016 19:19:41 GMT
Not quite true on the last part. While we don't learn ingame, Bioware did tell us what happened to the people there. They said that the Citadel has shelters built into it, and many inhabitants made it into them and survived. Basically, any named character who was on the Citadel survived the end of ME3(unless you choose Refuse). Yup, that's how I learned about it.
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Post by Garo on Sept 11, 2016 19:37:12 GMT
You felt like Earth investment was forced? I mean c'mon, what could they do? Show us puppies getting killed by reapers? It's a place all humans come from, it's important on their own.
Cool, I didn't know that.
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Post by Sondergaard on Sept 11, 2016 19:37:56 GMT
Because putting that info in the game I've paid good moneyfor and invested 40+ hours in is sooo 20th century. Far better to jump onto Twitter to find out what happened.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 11, 2016 19:46:20 GMT
You felt like Earth investment was forced? I mean c'mon, what could they do? Show us puppies getting killed by reapers? It's a place all humans come from, it's important on their own. Why is it important to the player? We know why Shepard and other humans in Mass Effect might consider Earth important and why they might be personally invested in it but why should the player be personally invested in Earth?
Again, we don't even get to visit it until the beginning and the end of the third and final game. Every important event prior to and during the invasion takes place somewhere else.
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Post by Garo on Sept 11, 2016 20:03:14 GMT
You felt like Earth investment was forced? I mean c'mon, what could they do? Show us puppies getting killed by reapers? It's a place all humans come from, it's important on their own. Why is it important to the player? We know why Shepard and other humans in Mass Effect might consider Earth important and why they might be personally invested in it but why should the player be personally invested in Earth?
Again, we don't even get to visit it until the beginning and the end of the third and final game. Every important event prior to and during the invasion takes place somewhere else.
Through the game you hear news from Earth, also when you land on it, you read a lot data pads, you hear people through the radio dying and stuff, I mean that's pretty good reasoning to stop it. Also as a player I need reason to care about some character, but caring about Earth is pretty arbitrary.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 11, 2016 20:11:44 GMT
Why is it important to the player? We know why Shepard and other humans in Mass Effect might consider Earth important and why they might be personally invested in it but why should the player be personally invested in Earth?
Again, we don't even get to visit it until the beginning and the end of the third and final game. Every important event prior to and during the invasion takes place somewhere else.
Through the game you hear news from Earth, also when you land on it, you read a lot data pads, you hear people through the radio dying and stuff, I mean that's pretty good reasoning to stop it. Also I, as a player, need reason to care about some character but caring about Earth is pretty arbitrary. Except that's happening to every planet with a population and I hear about it the same. Also, just because I need to stop the Reapers on Earth does not mean I personally care about Earth: it's no different for me than needing to stop the Reapers on any other planet. Earth has no personal importance to me as a player.
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RageUnderFire
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Post by RageUnderFire on Sept 11, 2016 20:50:30 GMT
Very happy to know that humans will be running shit.
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Post by RageUnderFire on Sept 11, 2016 20:51:02 GMT
Make Humanity Great Everyday
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Post by themikefest on Sept 11, 2016 21:18:14 GMT
Cool, I didn't know that. Patrick Weekes is the one who says folks did survive
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Post by Xerxes52 on Sept 11, 2016 21:28:22 GMT
Ooh, I remember that. Before then I expected that everyone had been blended into Reaper smoothies.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 11, 2016 21:29:40 GMT
In regards about Earth. My Shepard is Earthborn. She cares about Earth. It was nice going back to Earth at the end. It wasn't nice seeing it on fire. Would the Citadel of been taken to Earth if Anderson wasn't on Earth? I believe a lot of what happens on Earth was to setup the touchy-feely scene between him and Shepard.
What would of happened if the Citadel was taken to, oh I don't know, maybe Thessia or Palaven? I will use Thessia. The crucible is taken to Thessia. Does that mean an asari will be the one to come up with the stupid idea of destroying the destroyer like the plan Anderson had? Would there still be the suicide run, aka the bean run? Most likely it would be asari being killed on the beam run instead of humans. Ha. I don't have a problem with that part.Would it be an asari that has the touchy-feely scene with Shepard on the Citadel? No. They wanted Anderson on the Citadel. It would be hard to explain having Anderson on the Citadel if he was on Earth.
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Post by BansheeOwnage on Sept 12, 2016 0:56:13 GMT
This treatment isn't changed even when huge portions of it are destroyed/crippled in the endings, and we still don't know what happened to the characters there! Not quite true on the last part. While we don't learn ingame, Bioware did tell us what happened to the people there. They said that the Citadel has shelters built into it, and many inhabitants made it into them and survived. Basically, any named character who was on the Citadel survived the end of ME3(unless you choose Refuse). I forgot about that, not that it makes it much better. It's like killing off characters on Twitter. Show, don't tell. And it's a pretty major thing to gloss over. You felt like Earth investment was forced? I mean c'mon, what could they do? Show us puppies getting killed by reapers? It's a place all humans come from, it's important on their own. I'm was looking at it the other way around in my post, actually. I wasn't trying to say the player/Shepard shouldn't be invested in Earth, I was taking issue with how: 1. It's forced, when it should be up to roleplaying. 2. It's given far more weight than any other planet, even though other homeworlds are just as strategically important and have billions of people on them as well. Your view that it's important because it's humanity's homeworld is fine, but my point is it shouldn't have been the only possibly viewpoint for Shepard to have. Through the game you hear news from Earth, also when you land on it, you read a lot data pads, you hear people through the radio dying and stuff, I mean that's pretty good reasoning to stop it. Also I, as a player, need reason to care about some character but caring about Earth is pretty arbitrary. Except that's happening to every planet with a population and I hear about it the same. Also, just because I need to stop the Reapers on Earth does not mean I personally care about Earth: it's no different for me than needing to stop the Reapers on any other planet. Earth has no personal importance to me as a player.
shechinah makes my point, except I was making it with regards to Shepard instead of the player. It should be within my roleplaying ability to have Shepard express care equally about Earth vs. any other planet, not more just because it's human, especially if Shep isn't from there.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 12, 2016 13:22:16 GMT
Very happy to know that humans will be running shit. As it should be. Make Humanity Great Everyday That's right. We're great. We have the best looking homeworls in the universe We are the best looking species in the universe We have the best vacations spots We have the best sports We have the best food We have the best entertainment Go team humanity. Humanity #1
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Post by dalinne on Sept 12, 2016 16:06:58 GMT
Very happy to know that humans will be running shit. As it should be. Make Humanity Great Everyday That's right. We're great. We have the best looking homeworls in the universe We are the best looking species in the universe We have the best vacations spots We have the best sports We have the best food We have the best entertainment Go team humanity. Humanity #1 According to the old vids we have everything they want
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