Canadian Delicacy - The Kaidan Alenko Thread

Yes, he does all those things, but I should point out that he regrets how the situation with Vyrnus went down and he doesn't want a repeat of that. He may disagree with the Council turning a blind eye to the big picture (Saren, the Geth and the Reapers), and he may even voice his objections to Shepard, but he still basically says 'we still have to do what we're told'. He understands the necessity of going to Ilos, but he doesn't ignore the repercussions of their actions for acting without orders (he even says 'hell, if they want to get technical, they can throw in kidnapping'). Kaidan may have also felt stonewalled in 2, but he still only went to Horizon after Alliance told him to - he didn't go there on his own, as much as he wanted to go. The rumours about Shepard being alive had started circulating, and the Alliance wanted to send someone who knew Shepard and who could verify if the rumours were true. He was also the one who revolted when Udina sold them out in ME1, and yet he didn't seem to have much of a problem with him in 3. Well, until the coup, that is. XD

Please note that, though I say that Kaidan was manipulated, I don't mean that he was holding a proverbial idiot ball - that's unfair to the man himself. Simply put, he's a good soldier, and he wants to do good. The long version is: he knows Cerberus as a terrorist group, it doesn't matter if a person he respects/loves is with them. After all, back in ME2, he mourned his commanding officer and friend/lover and then, two years later, they show up and working with terrorists - to say that looks bad is an understatement. To expect him to accept that Cerberus are the ones doing the right thing by protecting the colonies and then have him accept that the Alliance, the very people that he is serving in order to *do* good, aren't, is a very, *very* tall order, justifiably so. In 3, if Shepard takes time to make him see that they're the same person and, even though they worked with Cerberus it didn't mean they ever answered to them, he finally reaches a point where he isn't sure what to believe. Udina basically says 'Cerberus is bad, Shepard's with Cerberus, therefore, Shepard's not to be trusted', but Shepard's reaching out again and again. It's only at the coup that he finally decides to bite the bullet and trust his insticts. He steps back, still warning Shepard that he's taking a very big leap and that Shepard had better not make him regret it. And, of course, if allowed, he takes the shot against Udina too.

For me, I don't see Shepard shooting Udina as not trusting Kaidan.

In my case it's more wanting to protect Kaidan, even if that instinct might be misguided. Udina is dangerous, unpredictable in that moment; don't want Kaidan, or anyone, hurt and don't want Kaidan to have to deal with Udina's blood on his hands. Even if killing him is seen as justified it's still a taken life. Kaidan is sensitive enough to see that. My Shep would rather take the burden than lay it on him. I do like the dialogue after he shoots Udina, though. It's an interesting conversation. The one where Shep shoots Udina does give this feeling of somehow undermining Kaidan, but I don't think that's fair.

I think that Udina fully intended to use Kaidan by making him a Spectre -- not that I don't think he's capable. He knew of the relationship between Kaidan and Shep, how contentious it might even be. He's betting he can manipulate both of them in some way to his benefit. It actually looks really pathetic when he fails, and just tragic if Kaidan/Ashley die... because all he did was fail and get somebody else killed.

SpiritVanguard Agreed. Personally, it's not a matter of whether Shepard trusts Kaidan or not, there are a lot of points in the game where we're shown Shepard trusts him - more than Kaidan trusts Shepard, in fact. The Mars mission is a good indication of that, when they find the husk-like Cerberus trooper, for example. Even their dialogue at the hospital shows that Shepard is reaching out and Kaidan is hesitating, even though he wants to be with Shepard (as friends or as more than friends, to quote him). And then we reach the coup, where Shepard (and whoever is with them) has the option to lower their gun even though Kaidan still holds them at gunpoint. That shows incredible faith from Shepard's part that Kaidan will at least listen to their side of the story. If I'm ever shooting Udina, it's solely to protect Kaidan. (Though I do have the habit of headcanoning that Kaidan's just faster. )

NRieh It's true, we don't have a clear indication as to when exactly Udina turned to Cerberus or the reasons behind it. Act of desperation seems to be the most plausible reason, rather than him turning downright evil. As much as I dislike him, he does seem to care about Earth and he's hurt that people that he knew died when the Reapers attacked. As I said before, it was that line that he tells Shepard that gave me those vibes that there's something else going on rather than him simply wishing to give humanity some good news - which, iirc, is what Kaidan says when you talk to him about it and not Udina himself, so it can make one wonder whether or not that was just a smokescreen for his true motives.


Edited to add: whenever he did start working with them, however, it's pretty clear that during the coup scene he is counting on Kaidan to shoot the moment he claims that Shepard's at the Citadel because he works for Cerberus, which, of course, is BS. That's manipulation right there - he's using Kaidan's mistrust of Cerberus to have him shoot Shepard. And then, if Shepard took the time to speak to Kaidan, it's rather gratifying to see that part of the plan failing because he misjudged Shepard and Kaidan's relationship. As it's been pointed out before, there's no need for a good person to die due to Udina's treachery.

A lot of really great answers! Okay, fair is fair, here is mine:

I have a ton of Shepards, 99% of which romanced Kaidan. I would say it's about half and half. My very first play through, I wasn't sure what would happen, I shot Udina myself. I was afraid the people I brought would shoot Kaidan if they thought he was going to shoot me, so I got trigger happy and did it myself.

After that, I looked it up and it could go down that way if certain criteria weren't met. So I'm glad I played it safe, even though I think I had met all requirements for it to turn out okay

Then I mixed it up. Sometimes I let Kaidan do it, because I felt he would trust my Shepards more knowing they let him make the call, or he would see my Shepards trusted him. Then sometimes I did it myself because I was playing a hothead Shepard, or a Shepard who wanted revenge on Udina or I wanted to protect Kaidan. There are so many ways to play that scene. I love it.

So, next question: How many made Kaidan a meanie in the first Mass Effect?

I never have.

haha I just don't have the desire to do so, not even just to see what it's like.

I have only once. Honestly, Sbarge is terrible at being Renegade Kaidan and made me laugh so much. He simply shout and act like he was angry and rude and it sound very insincere like he didn't really mean any of it it. But I like that it open up a lot of dialogues, so it better to do it once or twice.

Shepard: When anyone out here listens to us, the Council starts up with their treaties and heel-dragging. We can only rely on ourselves.
Kaidan: We’re not doing the galaxy any favors if we try to force our way into a seat at the grown-up table. They aren’t – malicious. They’re just slow to change. My story doesn’t get any better if Vyrnnus is a good guy.
Shepard : I don’t need you kissing the Council’s asses too.
Kaidan: Look, Shepard you’re in command and we’ll all follow your lead. But don’t ream me out for having an opinion. I thought we respected each other more than that.

And there's also one moment where I scold him and it caught him off guard.
Kaidan: What? That isn’t what you’ve been pushing? Didn’t you make an argument for pushing the Council out? That the Alliance should demand its due instead of waiting to be accepted?

Honestly, that's what it is. He can't actually be anti-alien or psycho or racist. He can only be persuaded to see Council negatively and be more pragmatic about it. Which isn't that bad really.

I did it once and I didn't like it. I've never felt so manipulative as seeing Kaidan talking so out character
I like the way Kaidan is, even if I play Renegade and I romance him I prefer Shepard and him doesn't share the same views but respect each other regardless.

Also, about Jiminy Cricket: fun fact? Raphael Sbarge (Kaidan VA) plays Jiminy Cricket in Once Upon a Time 

Kaidan always goes there as well as to confront Major Kyle.  It just seems to make the most sense.

I take him everywhere since he's always Shepard's right hand man. In ME3, somehow it felt reassuring having two Spectres along in a mission. But I like Citadel DLC where the VI registered Kaidan's presence as a Council Spectre. Kinda wish Kaidan and Ashley have more to say when everyone brush them off about Council not believing them.

Although its a missed chance to put Grissom Academy in the beginning when Cerberus role in the game became more relevant post-Citadel coup. Kaidan have a direct involvement with the Academy as he bequeathed scholarships to the biotic kids. Its a missed chance not to have Jack met Kaidan directly too.... perhaps I just use gibbed next time.

I always take him on that mission too. I was kinda disappointed the first time because I hoped to hear more from him about it, but he tells me all about himself later on so that's ok.

I think my favorite thing about this mission is the effect of it; that Shep (who is a biotic) and Kaidan helped to achieve granting the reparations together.

I always take him there, and I also always take him with me if I'm to find Corporal Toombs as an Akuze survivor. I feel they're both nice 'spots', sort of speak, where Shepard and Kaidan indirectly learn about one another. I also tend to headcanon that they have a convo after those two missions which helps the two build on their friendship and rapport.

That looks like a Normandy\Citadel banter, not the in-mission reaction, it can happen anytime later, even after the Coup. I was talking about the interaction during the pre-coup Grissom mission.