Canadian Delicacy - The Kaidan Alenko Thread

I really wanted to see more of this "contention" with biotics, because I thought it was interesting and in-game it's like a complete non-issue other than a few lines from Kaidan and Joker -- and if Ashley is there instead, even less. Still, considering all the mage drama in Dragon Age it might be better this way, otherwise it could look like re-hashing the same idea, just IN SPACE.

Would've been cool to see Kaidan and Jack interact though. A shame they don't, really, in the Citadel dlc...

I actually didn't know for quite some time that this was possible, and even then I thought it would result in the bomb detonating, so I never did it until recently when I learned, no, that wouldn't happen.  So my last couple runs of ME3 I waited and brought him along, interesting stuff. Feels kinda weird not bringing Garrus since I always have. I hate having to wait until almost halfway into the game to get Kaidan back on-board, though, and this speeds that up a bit even if I miss out on other things...

I've only brought Kaidan to Eden Prime once, in my first run of the game when I got the dlc kinda late. I liked it a lot but I also like having Javik along as much of the game as I can (use him in a couple missions too) so I always go pick him up after Garrus.

Just some of my fave fan art, for all the mshenko players in the house





Late to this thread, but as a huuuge Kaidan fan, I had to read all of the appreciation for him up in here, then finally gush lol

Seriously though, one thing I love about Kaidan, is how he is received by the other characters/squadmates. He feels like such an integral part of the Normandy crew, his own person, independent and not just a blind follower of Shepard like some (cough, LiaraGarrus, cough).

Especially in ME3, I found you get a real sense of friendship between Kaidan, Liara, Garrus and Tali based on their interactions, and Kaidan and Vega's friendship as well was awesome! He's just a great team player, I found even more with Leviathan and Citadel, but has his own passions and convictions that I think help him to stand out really well.

Ok, enough gushing lol, might have to go back and replay Citadel DLC just for all the awesome interactions between my MaleShep and Kaidan!

Love this thread and all the Kaidan love up in here!

Kaidan's romance is my favourite romance in Mass Effect. As much, as I had enjoyed Garrus' romance, I enjoyed Kaidan's so much more. I also like the fact that Kaidan doesn't drop everything to help Shepard in ME2. I tried to have a Kaidanless playthrough once, it did not last long.

Sorry, been reading through all the posts in this thread, and there was just something I wanted to query here.

Yes, in ME1 and ME2, there is evidence (that you have given above) that Kaidan wasn't intended to be a love interest for a male Shepard. The fact Meer recorded those romance lines was never proof to me anyway that there was some intention of making Kaidan a love interest for both Shepard's, as it is stated above, a simple workaround so that they had all the dialogue they needed and cut out what they didn't need without having to recall the voice actor back for more reshoots. Even with save edits, Kaidan will still refer to a Male Shepard as a female if he is directing the romance dialogue at him in ME1.

But as the writer also states, he never thought Kaidan was straight, and is open to loving a man, which ultimately can happen with a male Shepard in Mass Effect 3. Discrimination based on sexuality in space would indeed be odd, which is why there is no fanfare should FemShep choose to pursue a relationship with Liara or Kelly in ME2, and the same with a MaleShep with Kaidan and Steve (one of the reasons I love BioWare and the ME trilogy!   )

Based on the writer's own thoughts on Kaidan and his sexuality, and the fact that no matter what stage in development it was added, the very fact that in ME3 there exists the option for a Male Shepard to romance Kaidan doesn't suggest to me that there was "never any intention at all" for a MShep/Kaidan romance. Yes, during ME1 and ME2 there was no such intention. Clearly though, by ME3, there was an intention as it was added in the game. You didn't cite any evidence to back up your claim that it was "only added later in development". Regardless, as I've said, it really shouldn't matter what stage of development it was added. The writer said himself he thought Kaidan could be open to loving a man, and possibly due to fan requests, and the fact that during the developmental process, the intention was and is there and thus it was added, even if it doesn't have the same number of scenes and dialogue as a FemShep/Kaidan romance. They were trying to accommodate a MaleShep and Kaidan romance, and may well have run out of time or resources or whatever, it doesn't really change anything.

The writer in the post you cited also said that the natural progression from friends to lovers was "fantastic", and I agree. Even though many players with Male Shepards didn't get to experience the same Kaidan romance as Female Shepards over the course of the trilogy, the way it was written in ME3 was well done in my opinion, as there is a rational reason given as to why Male Shepard (and a Female Shepard if you are starting a new romance with Kaidan in ME3) and Kaidan don't get together during ME1. If anything, the decision to profess their feelings during ME3 seems fitting given their situation and I think the cafe scene with Shepards of either gender and Kaidan is a beautifully written scene. 

Sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to query this claim of there being no intention at all, because it seems to me to be contradictory, given the fact that at some point there was the intention, since at the end of the day, the option exists in ME3. 
I suppose its like saying that there was no intention at all for Garrus and Tali to be a love interest for Shepard. In ME1, that was the case. But by ME2, that position had changed, and they chose to add in the romance option. You can't really do that if you don't have the intention of adding it in, even if is to the request/demand of fans.

There's absolutely no problem with Kaidan as a character himself nor his appeal to both gender but my major issue with MShep/Kaidan was mainly how ME3 romance was simply created by swapping bodies inside FemShep/Kaidan narrative. This lackadaisical treatment is very unfair to MShep/Kaidan fans themselves who deserve their own narrative without being treated as an alternate.

In doing so, it does put a restriction on FemShep own romance as well. FemShep wasn't even allowed a hug or a kiss from Kaidan nor she was able to say she love him back until very end of the game. She could do so with every other romances; Garrus, Liara, Traynor, Thane, even Allers (except for Jacob naturally) and BroShep himself could do more than kiss with every other romanceable character in the game especially prior to Cronos Station. There are lines and additional scenes that was voiced in the game that deleted because the dialogues and lines doesn't feel right inside Kaidan and BroShep romance. This is also the reason why MaleShep and Kaidan's scene in the cabin was shortened at the exact part where FemShep climb on top of Kaidan and professing their love for each other because they don't want to make an alternate scene for MaleShep and Kaidan. And it even took Extended Cut DLC for MaleShep to say his love for Kaidan. 

I really wanted Kaidan to say that he is the luckiest man alive to be in love with Male Shepard but I can't have that. I really want BroShep to have more lines with Kaidan talking more about each other and exploring their newfound attraction as it was afforded with Cortez. I wanted BroShep and Kaidan do go out on a date or watch tv and simply content in each other's arms. That's why Cortez romance appeal to me as it let me see the side of MaleShep who wanted companionship which I rarely see. This is what romance is. I don't care what gender they are, I'm just someone who do love good romantic fiction and I really want more of this.

But in FemShep/Kaidan's romance in ME3, their relationship is not about romantic discovery but romantic acceptance. They are not a pair of new lovers who were just exploring that aspect of their relationship. They've moved beyond all that for years. ME1 explore their initial attraction to one another. ME2 have their relationship tested with years and distance between both of them which is enough by ME3 for them reevaluate their true feelings for each other. Then they were finally reunited for good by Apollo's cafe scene.

MaleShep was never given a chance to discover all this aspect of his romantic relationship with Kaidan. Instead their relationship simply jump into the acceptance stage inside post-lock-in scene (In fact, there's only three true MShenko scene in vanilla ME3; Apollo's Cafe, Cabin scene, London's goodbye, everything else are just add-ons). I felt disappointed that I don't feel MaleShep's later preference for Kaidan change anything about the game. It simply function within a very closed set narrative which really isn't what FemShep/Kaidan is (where almost every NPCs acknowledge and react to their relationship status). There's no sense of character evolution by the romance which was observable in all major trilogy romances. Even Garrus romance does attempt to show how the relationship bridge from being friends to lovers.

MM romance deserve to receive the same treatment and written as wholesome as its mainstream romance counterpart. It wasn't enough to just being able to romance one character that you want and live happily ever after. You have to sell the idea that the romance itself is believable and treat it the same way as it was afforded with its alternate option.  Having MaleShep and Kaidan suddenly falling in love because players want it to happen isn't doing anyone's favor even to the characters themselves. Kaidan's bisexuality should have been expanded further within his own narrative rather than just a romance convenience for MaleShep. And even the game itself shouldn't decide for us that MaleShep should be mainly heterosexual based on romanceable character availability without regarding the player's agency to decide for themselves. 

There's nothing wrong to enjoy this romance but there's always room for improvement and there are always real need for more gay romance narrative even in video games and in mainstream romance genre.

Edit: because my Engrish so terrible today 

Yes, I agree with everything you've said here, you've brought up and illuminated some truly excellent points about romantic storylines for LGBT characters in gaming and in mainstream romance in other mediums. 

Ive known a few other MShep/Kaidan fans who were disappointed by how their relationship was written in ME3, and I definitely do feel a whole lot more could have been done so that the romance and relationship was given more equal treatment compared to other romances, but I also liked the romance with all the DLC included and this stems from me having never had an option for a male character to pursue a same sex relationship before, and as a gaymer I was glad that bioware were being inclusive in that way to their audience when ive never found that with another game before. This also was because Kaidan as one of my favourite characters so I was even happier knowing that male sheps could romance him. 

Going forward though, I agree with you that in the future BioWare should be more equal with the content and romantic relationships available  to players of all genders and sexual orientations, and hopefully we'll see this in Andromeda. 

I agree. The way he describes Rahna (sp?) and the adjectives he uses like smart, charming, gentle and 'beautiful, but not stuck up about it', imply that he first appreciates character and then physical beauty. This is later shown again if he confesses his feelings to a male Shepard in 3. Specifically, he says 'We've been friends for a long time, Shepard. Have you ever known me to be with anyone?' Let's not forget that in ME2, even in the case of a male Shepard, he had his chance to move on with a doctor he had been set up with, but it's obvious that he never followed through with it. And then he continues on: 'Maybe I'm just choosy, or patient or... I don't know.' Again, it shows he doesn't think of romance casually, which is later established by his final words. 'Maybe what I never found - what I want - is something deeper with somebody I already care about'.

You can also see this even if you don't have an imported Shep in 3, when he says - in the same citadel scene - that he wants someone strong and confident, somebody he admires, respects and enjoys their company. No mention of physical traits or specific gender whatsoever.



(Disclaimer: I use male, because that's the one I remember best, feel free to correct me if things play out differently with a Fem!Shep. And I deny playing the scene so many times I've learnt it by heart. )

Oh, I was so glad that I finally got Alenko (and MxM romance possiblity), so I do not really studied the mistakes ... Perhaps next time

And I also like this scene:

In the future would be nice the LGBT romances without lame solutions and negative feeling/indignation/comments (how possible, Kaidan was straight blahblah just as in Anders case). I think the Andromeda will be fine (this is Tabula Rasa).

I tried a fresh ME3 making Ashley the VS.  It wasn't horrible but I didn't really care for it.  I missed Kaidan and I hated the way the Ashley romance went.  Then I heard you could use Gibbed to have both of them present and I made that happen.  It's got lots of flaws but it works.  Then I just decided to edit out Ash and finished out with Kaidan. 

You are right, there are some aspects I didn't take into account.
Also, I think I had a different idea about what demisexuality is, so thanks for the clarification. 

Kaidan seems to me more or less straight, except where Shepard is concerned (or completely so if you have FemShep).  He's just mildly bisexual and it happens to be that he can fall for a man. This sort of thing isn't even unknown in the real world, though most personal examples I can cite are with otherwise straight-identifying women getting into a relationship with another woman.

This is where it does get dicey. In FemShep's trilogy, even if he is unromanced by her, he does not show any interest in other men at all but he did so with other women. His comment on Jacob's looks only happen if you romance Kaidan in ME1 and sleep with Jacob in ME2, but its out of jealousy and spite, not because he's personally interested in Jacob.

Kaidan's bisexuality is exclusively for ME3's MaleShep player. Therefore, it is entirely within MaleShep player's prerogative to think Kaidan is a bisexual man but it doesn't make him as one in FemShep player's narrative. Its just a case where he is or isn't only if you want him to be.