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Post by straykat on Aug 26, 2016 5:24:10 GMT
hah.. someone actually made a kaidan me2 intro armor mod, like I mentioned awhile back. Not sure if it works, but ill check it out later. social.bioware.com/project/8857/ |
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kizanare
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Post by kizanare on Aug 26, 2016 5:52:30 GMT
Kaidan's pretty fun.... cute... likable... responsible.
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NRieh
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Post by NRieh on Aug 26, 2016 10:09:47 GMT
ME1 was one of the first (if not THE first) game to have an 'open'(non-hard-preset, not like Kyle Katarn or Geralt of Rivia) and yet fully voiced PC with two different actors. Jaden Korr from Jedi Academy (2004) comes to my mind, but they had WAY less complex dialogues and much less variations to deal with. At that time it was kind of 'cutting-edge tech'. While I'm not a big pro on the UE, but I'll try to explain this one.
My guess is that it had to do with the timing and scripting design. They had to make two technically identical VO sets to deal with. Any line spoken would always be line #X, making it #X for mShep and #Y for femShep adds great deal of variables and complicates the logic. They could theoretically spend some time inserting 'dummy' lines (of the proper lenght!), but apparently asking each of the VAs to record a small part of unused lines was the best cost\efficiency solution.
And as acounter-argument to the last-minute-cut-out content - Kaidan has no s\s-specific lines, he calls gay-modded ME1 mShep 'a woman', and there are some points in the unused recording where Hale and Meer reference their 'wrong' gender too.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against Kaidan being bi (or gay, if that's how some prefer to see him in ME3). I've been with this fandom long enough. I'm a straight female player who had created the 'ME2 Horizon letter' for my fellow 'mShep' kaidanites. But that's just it - ME1 mShenko had never existed outside the mods and headcanons. Headcanons - I respect them deeply, but they can't be used as arguments. I'm glad for those who enjoy them, as long as I'm not being forced to accept them as the stated fact.
Also, many of my mShenko friends prefer non-modded ME1, as they consider lack of actual romance in ME1 a good thing, like part of the characters and relations developement, beginning with the friendship and throught all the distrust.
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aoibhealfae
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 26, 2016 17:46:58 GMT
I found this on tumblr the other day. That being said, from FemShep/Kaidan deleted lines and scenes in ME3, they never intended Kaidan to be available for Male Shepard at all and its only added later in the development. Probably because its cheaper to simply add some lines and switch some animations in FemShep's New Romance to accommodate Male Shep than making a new bisexual LI aka James Vega (especially after they already done with Steve Cortez). |
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Post by Kaidan Fan on Aug 27, 2016 17:01:06 GMT
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aoibhealfae
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 27, 2016 17:27:06 GMT
Finally done with my 2016 trilogy playthrough. Normally, I choose the paragon line since I like it as a final goodbye for my Shepard who is always afraid to say what she feels. Paragon "I love you always." "I love you too."  And then today I choose the renegade line instead. Renegade "You're in no condition to keep on fighting. Go to the medbay." "No! I'm with you till the end." "That's an order, Major!"  That is also in character... and now I wished I hadn't traumatized myself again. Need to stop crying. Oh my baby Sheppie, why is the world so cruel to you? |
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NRieh
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Post by NRieh on Aug 27, 2016 19:41:50 GMT
(long and angry post about the EC& Normandy evac scene incoming. You've been warned.  ) To be honest, I hate that Normandy-evac scene because it is so damn wrong on so many levels. They had added it in the EC to 'explain' what da hell the recent London squad was doing on a fucking double-moon Earth-like planet and how had it got to the Normandy. That crash-scene did not make any sense logic-wise and lore-wise, but they just had to 'fix' their plot hole with a nuke. 'Evacnaaaoooo' is the top worst out-of-lore and out-of-character(s) scene in the whole trilogy. Even post-Thessia forced drama pales compared to this one.
Let's start with some lore and logic, shall we?
1. Remember how you had to fly shuttles since ME2? That's because SR2 can't fly within atmosphere. Somehow in ME3 this 'minor detail' had been overlooked couple of times.
2. But let's pretend that SR2 does can fly into atmospheres. SR2 is not the f-ing taxi. It's one of the top-best frigate-class ships out there, equipped with the top-best helmsman and a perfectly-calibrated Thanix cannon. What kind of Commander would call it down in the middle of the action as a med-shuttle? Especially considering that there is another squad member, which is not even hurt (so they can get to the medic somehow, apparently)
3. Lets think about the previous objectives. Do you remember why are we going on foot to begin with and why did we have to take those huge missles closer to the Beam, not just arrange a fly-by? Exactly. It's that very 'interference', which had screwed the targeting system once, and which adds extra dangers to landing close to the beam.
4. 'But oh, that's an extra scene with LI'? London farewells are perfectly designed as-is. There's nothing to top that unexpected hug&kiss in the middle of a nightmare warzone, infront of the crowd. It was never meant to have another goodbye 10 minutes later. It's like putting a cheap paperback 1$ novell as a PS to the 'Wuthering Heights' or 'Romeo & Juliet'.
5. Ok-ok, some still love the scene, 'because Kaidan'. I can understand that. Just don't forget that this scene happens no matter what. How about a touchy-feely chat to James? Or calling down Normandy for the sake of *insert any non-LI squad member which you are not particulary interested in*? Ruthless renegade Shep who had boiled the Rachni Queen and who had shot Mordin, caring about Javik or EDI?... I think you already got the idea.
6. Kaidan, who had followed the Alchera order, who had guts to turn his back on Shep on Horizon. Would he allow Shep to call down the Normandy like that? Would he go for those puppy-eyes, which seems to be designed for Liara? Why would Garrus or James or Liara even (being the 'not hurt' ones) leave Shepard like 'Uhm..ok, I should go, I guess, just in case'? To me this scene is deeply OOC for the most of the characters. It's only purpose was to get the squad to the Normandy, no matter what.
As for the 'Jungle planet' itself - as I've mentioned, it does not make sense. It had never been explained from what I know. Basically, Sol does not have jungle-planets with two moons, and they could not have passed through the relay (especially not after we were 'explained' that they had started moving the moment space-beam began to charge up. It takes about 3 hours on FTL to get there from Earth, even if we discard the huge fleet queing for the jump. All they had to do is to leave the recent squad on Earth, so that the whole sequence would become less stupid, really. But noo.  |
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aoibhealfae
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 28, 2016 0:22:20 GMT
SR2 can't land on high gravity planets, not due to the atmosphere. Even in the beginning of ME3, you can see an Alliance dreadnought over Vancouver. If a kilometer long ship could handle Earth's gravity, a smaller frigate like Normandy certainly wouldn't much trouble maneuvering. Since Normandy are in stealth mode and EDI upgraded Normandy stealth system extensively based on the Reaper IFF that mimicked the reapers frequencies themselves and EDI just decoded through the interference to destroy a reaper near the beam, I don't see it clash with the lore at all that the Normandy was able to do another evacuation that mirror the scene on Vancouver.... where you have a lot Sovereign-class reapers around you. Also Normandy would have been shot down easily if it tried to attack. That being said, kinda sad that there's no cool scene with the Thannix canon in ME3. Not even the scene on Rannoch. Then again, not surprised since Garrus himself are more like a decoration in ME3. Well... Shepard have consistently made many questionable choices regarding Kaidan throughout the trilogy. Saving him from the beacon with her own life, saving him on Virmire, refusing his help and ordering him to safety while you save Joker alone and you're killed soon after, the bait thing on Horizon, TIM's attempt at executing him on Mars, the trust contest during Citadel coup... so.. it didn't feel that odd for her to use her authority again to ensure his safety because its still within her character to do so and again, I like how the evacuation scene mirror the beginning of the game. Kinda odd for a character where half of the player base love to sacrifice, isn't it? As you said, it is unnecessary for your squadmates to get to safety and serve as final drama act (plus, someone remember Garrus forgot to say I love you in the base game.. tch tch...). But the evacuation scene simply fix the continuity in the jungle scene which is a leftover of the original ending and its main purpose is to show a cute scene with Joker and his three years old sexbot. Also it didn't make sense for Kaidan to jump out of the ship especially if he was left on earth. But in my personal ending, even I excise the whole stupid jungle scene. I have read the scene summary, they're stranded in an unknown undiscovered alien world but it didn't occur to them that dense rainforest like that are millions of years old and why would humanity need to colonize the Traverse if there's a garden world within FTL-distance of the Sol system that didn't need terraforming. and Raphael Sbarge like my tweet.  |
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NRieh
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Post by NRieh on Aug 28, 2016 8:36:49 GMT
Here's the quote from MEwiki: The ship still retains the SSV Normandy SR-1's stealth characteristics. However, unlike the SR-1, the SR-2 cannot land on every planet—due to her increased mass—requiring shore parties to use a shuttle to get to a planet's surface.I'm trying hard to find a direct quote from the in-game (ME2, talking to EDI by the shuttle bay window), which is much less vague about the matter, but I can't find it yet. Don't see it on youtube and I don't have ME2 installed at the moment. Anyway, it's a fact that SR2 was never designed to dive into planets. Specially equipped docks (like Illium) - may be, but it's too damn huge and heavy for a precise landing on a gym-sized patch of ground, in the middle of the hot action. They could have used a shuttle, if they wanted to, you know. Great chance for Steve to do some heroics and immersion (or what's left of it by this point) would not be hurt that badly. Yep. And it is also a lore-breaker to begin with... (one we could possibly overlook for the sake of 'Integrity&Art'(tm). RS is such a nice person!  Another thing we're lucky with Kaidan is his VA. I can't recall any other VA that would be so 'player-friendly' and communicative (other than Jen Hale, may be). I wish I could meet him one day. Same here. Normally I respect the 'game-canon' as much as possible, but this? I've found the only viable use for the Junglebook Landing (along with the NormandyEvac scene, by the way). It must be a PTSD nightmare provoked by drugs. Something to wake up from covered with cold sweat, see the familiar face nearby and realize that it had never happened, it's all over and it's safe now. |
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aoibhealfae
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 28, 2016 14:43:41 GMT
Pretty much off topic for this thread so I'm putting it in this nice little box. Wikia like Wikipedia can be edited by anyone really. Even googling the exact lines only leads to fansites. The game codex itself said nothing about Normandy not being able to make any landings. The nearest line about the Normandy was in ME2 "Its shuttle can make landings the Normandy cannot attempt." and in ME3 "Its state-of-the-art Kodiak shuttle can make landings the original Normandy could not attempt" which is ambiguous enough but it didn't say that Normandy SR-2 couldn't land on Earth. That being said, Mako, Kodiak and Hammerhead shuttles could land on extreme temperature, extreme gravity and extreme pressure worlds that Normandy couldn't safely do.. so, there's some truth to that.
But even in Wikia, it mentioned Cruisers unable to land on medium and high-gravity worlds and its impossible for a Dreadnought to land safely on the planet. This might apply to genuinely large dreadnoughts like the Geth ship and Destiny Ascension except that in the beginning of ME3, the large ship that explode over Vancouver is an Alliance dreadnought. Its possible that they hover rather than land, much like the dreadnoughts in Star Wars. But during the landing scenes in ME3, you only see the ramp touching the ground but not the Normandy itself (which stay suspended if you use flyrcam).
I love him in Once Upon A Time as Archie even before I play these games. I'm still following Murder in the First because he's in it more than in OUAT. I like that he still acknowledge his weird crazy Mass Effect fanbase but kinda wish he do more VO roles than TV roles. Not sure why, but his raspy masculine voice always calms me and I imagined it was something that Shepard love about him. Suddenly I want to play ME1 so badly... |
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 28, 2016 14:44:56 GMT
Kaidan is my favorite LI. I don't get the people who say he's boring. I guess if "boring" is being trustworthy, dependable, and loyal, then, yeah. Sure, he's got his baggage. He wouldn't be human if he didn't. The point is, it gives him some depth and doesn't hold him back. He's also a really powerful biotic. Given my preference for soldier class Shepard, he's a perfect fit.
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The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 29, 2016 5:56:24 GMT
The simple fact that he's not alien is already boring to some. (despite the fact that most aliens in this game have more human-like traits and personality...)
Most of Kaidan's traits are subtle but layered enough that you second guesses in every playthroughs. I like to call him a cerebral character because he always make me think twice about his words and his actions. Sbarge himself said a lot about everything Kaidan said have hidden subtexts and Kristjanson really love to write complex characters that aren't what they seem at first.
The first few things I notice about him was gentleness and empathy in him. He have the level of maturity which I rarely see in others. I like that he didn't like to brag. He doesn't say or do anything to look cool or look better than everyone and he didn't need to be coddled either. You can learn more about him from others and by observing how everyone react and talk to him. (Ashley's sister talking about Kaidan and Ashley hinting that she knew he was soft on someone if you feign ignorance, Joker who seem to hate Kaidan because of his relationship with Shepard, Liara talking about how Kaidan welcome her the first time she came onboard Normandy, Tali nerding with him about omnitools, the way James observed both of them when they're not looking) He is loyal to Shepard but isn't a blind follower and wanted you to prove yourself to him equally. He's even surprisingly accommodating to a Renegade Shepard if required. Heck, he simply nod when I ask him to torture Fist.
That being said, I always like that I learn more about Shepard through him. More specifically, the one who was afraid to love and need more TLC than others.
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Post by opuspace on Aug 29, 2016 6:08:54 GMT
Kaidan is my favorite LI. I don't get the people who say he's boring. I guess if "boring" is being trustworthy, dependable, and loyal, then, yeah. Sure, he's got his baggage. He wouldn't be human if he didn't. The point is, it gives him some depth and doesn't hold him back. He's also a really powerful biotic. Given my preference for soldier class Shepard, he's a perfect fit. I was told he was boring because to male players, there's not much told to them about him because he has to be romanced to get the full story. (I didn't get to see that, so it's thirdhand info) I liked that Kaidan didn't let one negative experience with a turian sour his opinions on the rest of the races. He stayed openminded and insightful about how relatable they were to humans. And he's right; the alien teammates are like humans in personality who just happen to look different. That he'd make that decision even after being threatened with death by an alien makes Kaidan one of the most mature perspectives in the game. It was a huge waste to lose a thoughtful, considerate person like him. I ended up saving him a lot (Sorry Ashley, I had Sheps who specialized in classes that needed his tech and biotics). |
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NRieh
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Post by NRieh on Aug 29, 2016 7:55:31 GMT
Joker who seem to hate Kaidan because of his relationship with Shepard What makes you think so? I always thought there is some sort of constraint between Joker and Kaidan in ME3, but not much in game to quote on this matter, so I basically considered it a headcanon. To me it had always been about the Alchera. Kaidan had all the reasons to blame Joker with his stubborn stupidity for Shepard's 'death', and he very likely did so. As self-controlled as Kaidan is, he might have lost it at that moment. Apparently, they had not parted as good friends after ME2 prologue. It certainly takes time to fix that mess, but I never saw any kind of hatered between them. |
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aoibhealfae
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 29, 2016 9:10:31 GMT
Joker who seem to hate Kaidan because of his relationship with Shepard What makes you think so? I always thought there is some sort of constraint between Joker and Kaidan in ME3, but not much in game to quote on this matter, so I basically considered it a headcanon. To me it had always been about the Alchera. Kaidan had all the reasons to blame Joker with his stubborn stupidity for Shepard's 'death', and he very likely did so. As self-controlled as Kaidan is, he might have lost it at that moment. Apparently, they had not parted as good friends after ME2 prologue. It certainly takes time to fix that mess, but I never saw any kind of hatered between them. I think its mostly jealousy. Joker did have a crush on FemShep but he didn't act on it and see Shepard as a sister anyway (wheras Kaidan did act on his crush and if unromanced, he consider Shepard as his sister as well). But Joker did show how protective he was of her. He purposely interrupt them twice in ME1. In ME2, how he chastised Shepard about not dating the crew but he did try to comfort her as well. In ME3. Joker didn't seem to chill about Kaidan's return to the ship and seemingly blame Kaidan for getting killed at the Citadel like its his fault for not trusting Shepard. But even so, you barely see them interacting in the trilogy outside the beginning of the game where Kaidan was briefly his co-pilot and Kaidan talking about giving Joker some poker tips. I like to think there's some healthy rivalry between the two for Shepard's affection. But after Shepard's death, following the chain of command, it was likely Kaidan assumed the command of Normandy team and he probably had some involvement at keeping Joker grounded. Too bad that they didn't talk much about the time after Shepard's death. |
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NRieh
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Post by NRieh on Aug 29, 2016 14:22:31 GMT
I think its mostly jealousy. Joker did have a crush on FemShep That's the most amazing thing about BW games, and that's why I love them so much. We've all been playing same game. We even prefer the same LI (which is supposed to mean we have more in common than let's say Jackmancer vs Ashmancer, I guess), but the personal experience is so drastically different. I think that what makes a good character and that what makes a good game - they give you just enough to tickle the imaginatioin and you start spinning your own story with your own context and headcanon, sometimes without even knowing. |
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aoibhealfae
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 29, 2016 15:40:46 GMT
I love it when you flirt with Joker at Purgatory and he goes "I'm not Kay-den" like it was an unpleasant thing to pass through his mouth.  Its genuinely fun to romance Kaidan although it was sad how many dismiss him so easily. Normally I get bored with a pairing quickly after a couple of playthrough but the whole 'you-only-want-the-ones-you-can't-have' made it so addicting. Like.. you can't actually have him in ME1 because you're his commanding officer and its bad for crew morale. You can't have him in ME2 because you died and Cerberus nab your corpse. You can't have him until very late in ME3. And its not just the interactions between Shepard and Kaidan but with other characters as well. How everyone seem to acknowledge their relationship even if they're not exactly together. Its a nice touch and make the romance felt less like a subplot but important to Shepard's larger narrative as well. |
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Post by straykat on Aug 29, 2016 20:06:28 GMT
Kaidan is my favorite LI. I don't get the people who say he's boring. I guess if "boring" is being trustworthy, dependable, and loyal, then, yeah. Sure, he's got his baggage. He wouldn't be human if he didn't. The point is, it gives him some depth and doesn't hold him back. He's also a really powerful biotic. Given my preference for soldier class Shepard, he's a perfect fit. I was told he was boring because to male players, there's not much told to them about him because he has to be romanced to get the full story. (I didn't get to see that, so it's thirdhand info) I liked that Kaidan didn't let one negative experience with a turian sour his opinions on the rest of the races. He stayed openminded and insightful about how relatable they were to humans. And he's right; the alien teammates are like humans in personality who just happen to look different. That he'd make that decision even after being threatened with death by an alien makes Kaidan one of the most mature perspectives in the game. It was a huge waste to lose a thoughtful, considerate person like him. I ended up saving him a lot (Sorry Ashley, I had Sheps who specialized in classes that needed his tech and biotics). I almost get the feeling Jack was made for some of us guys to care more about what Kaidan was saying. Specifically, the subject of human biotics. Although both still very different in their own right. But in retrospect, he doesn't bore me. |
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Post by straykat on Aug 30, 2016 19:11:49 GMT
Finally started my new ME2 game with the mod I mentioned. It actually makes a nice difference that I always wanted. Kaidan wears heavy onyx like Shep, but without the stripe. It makes them look more like peers or rivals.
Also one oddity.. the last bit somehow has Liara putting people in the pods, saying "Go! Go!" But in a way, I like this. It puts them both in the crash scene.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 30, 2016 21:16:20 GMT
I never liked that pink and white armor on Kaidan because it had that feeling of "insert not-Ashley here in Ashley's armor" since Liara also wears it. Which also made me feel like I didn't play "correctly."  And yet on Horizon Kaidan has his own armor. I can't mod, though, because I'm on console. |
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Post by straykat on Aug 30, 2016 21:51:00 GMT
I never liked that pink and white armor on Kaidan because it had that feeling of "insert not-Ashley here in Ashley's armor" since Liara also wears it. Which also made me feel like I didn't play "correctly." And yet on Horizon Kaidan has his own armor. I can't mod, though, because I'm on console. Liara wears the pink and white, but if you notice, she has one of the Asari/Spectre type of armors, with the different shoulder plate. So they even did something slightly different for her, but not Kaidan. Which doesn't make sense. That whole crash scene is visually great though. Still holds up after all these years. It's just weird they'd make this mistake. |
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Aug 30, 2016 22:37:56 GMT
I never liked that pink and white armor on Kaidan because it had that feeling of "insert not-Ashley here in Ashley's armor" since Liara also wears it. Which also made me feel like I didn't play "correctly." And yet on Horizon Kaidan has his own armor. I can't mod, though, because I'm on console. Liara wears the pink and white, but if you notice, she has one of the Asari/Spectre type of armors, with the different shoulder plate. So they even did something slightly different for her, but not Kaidan. Which doesn't make sense. That whole crash scene is visually great though. Still holds up after all these years. It's just weird they'd make this mistake. True. It's just Ashley had obvious favoritism throughout the trilogy. Kaidan deserved better. ...Though I guess he did come out on top in the end because Ashley's character just kinda fell off into nothing in 3 (without romance, still haven't played it yet). From my perspective. I was disappoint. Despite whatever nonsense was involved, I still like the ME2 opening.  Link |
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Post by straykat on Aug 30, 2016 22:49:25 GMT
Liara wears the pink and white, but if you notice, she has one of the Asari/Spectre type of armors, with the different shoulder plate. So they even did something slightly different for her, but not Kaidan. Which doesn't make sense. That whole crash scene is visually great though. Still holds up after all these years. It's just weird they'd make this mistake. True. It's just Ashley had obvious favoritism throughout the trilogy. Kaidan deserved better. ...Though I guess he did come out on top in the end because Ashley's character just kinda fell off into nothing in 3 (without romance, still haven't played it yet). From my perspective. I was disappoint. Despite whatever nonsense was involved, I still like the ME2 opening. LinkI suppose you're right, but funnily, the ME1 trailer had her die at Virmire. But male Shep. Which is how I prefer the story, I suppose (only wish it was a full romance, like it is in the trailer). While both are virtually gone in 2. You could say Kaidan lucked out in that version, even if he wasn't shown |
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Post by aoibhealfae on Aug 31, 2016 2:17:58 GMT
I don't have any problem with Kaidan's intro armor since it was white-red and not white-pink. You see it briefly under normal light as well.  I think the main problem is Ashley wearing her iconic armor during Horizon scene but its not the same armor she's wearing in the intro scene. |
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Post by GalentheYounger on Aug 31, 2016 2:31:40 GMT
Hi, I am new to the forums. Just wanted to drop in and say how big of a Kaidan fan I am.
What is the ship name for him and Fshep called? Shenko?
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Another thing we're lucky with Kaidan is his VA. I can't recall any other VA that would be so 'player-friendly' and communicative (other than Jen Hale, may be). I wish I could meet him one day. 
