Liam Loyalty Mission

Yeah, a general problem with the writing. I wouldn't know if my Ryder would have kicked them off her ship. But it certainly should have been an option. Playing nice nice in situations like that doesn't cut it in any case. There's only a weak response to both situations. On the lines of no more fuckups or being mad doesn't even come close to it. I would have looked differently at both situations if there had been some major reward at the end of them. Something that my Ryder could consider being worth the risk. But that wasn't the case.

But Ryder is green. That is ACTUALLY pointed out in the game. Scott was just a glorified doorman and Sara was most likely carrying boxes for scientists, experience wise no one in the Tempest was more green not even Liam. Heck Ryder was most likely the youngest person on the ship, i bet even Kallo was older.
Bottom line is PeeBee is a expert in remnant tech and Liam despite some questionable decisions is a ally in a hostile place where there is less than 100.000 of your people.

Besides it`s not like you cant call Liam out on his stupid plan or make PeeBee pay for the damage to the escape pod.

Whilst I can't argue that Liam's actions were fine the problem with it is that it's just the sort of thing I could see happening with a quest where the player would end up doing the same thing.

[Not trying to avoid your comments, but want to hone in on this.]

This is part of why I'm willing to allow Liam back.  He has been poorly written.  Maybe it's a longshot, but if he were written better then the problems you have with him could be handled.  As a long time comic book fan, I often saw people talk about killing off a character they hated.  I was always of the view that if a solid writer got their hands on that character they might just be seen differently.  And it's happened.  It might not happen with Liam but maybe BioWare will take the serious criticisms made against MEA to heart and do some corrections in future content.

Had Liam and Vetra with me a few times and he is a down right jagoff to her. Thought man if these two were real I'd stop and just have to kick his ass. He so needs it too.

Actually, that's not bad.  Then, if they were to write him better, they could offer a "Redemption" mission wherein he proves he's matured and will to be a team player.

Eh, no worries. I know what you mean and understand it. My thinking here though is that he could have been a potentially great squaddie. He has some good moments. But I worry if  they  will be able to pull it off because I don't think they will. I've come to really like my ryder a lot. I play him professional and that works  well for me. But the squaddies? Most of them are so badly written it's  sort of painful to even hear some of what they say. Drack is the best of all of them. I really hope they get better writings.  As much as I think the hiatus talk  is nonsense,  that they did  shuffle things around and that montreal is back to support gives me hope that they did realize this could have done much better. 

And yes, what you wrote earlier, having him mature and get his shit together could make him a great squaddie in the future. If they capitalize on it, and really write him well and capitalize on the bro factor, he could easily become one of the favorites down the line. He shows some hints at this potential here and there in the writing. I just don't know if they will be able to really make him great if they want to keep having  him be this or that kind of edgy. 

As someone who likes Liam just fine, I agree his actions leading up to the LM were not only foolish, but a gross breach of trust to Ryder. But then again, the buck ultimately stops with the captain. If your crew feels they can do whatever they want without checking with you, its because you've given them that impression that its okay.

Its a new crew, but the amount of maverick 'I do things my way' on the ship is very dangerous. Peebee's antics with the escape pod and her 'what's the worst that could happen' experiments with Remnant. On the Nexus. In secret. Or Gil and Kallo arguing away for so long when no ship can afford a rift between its pilot and engineer. You have Vetra and Drack conducting illegal smuggling and have only a 'I saw nothing' response. Its your call as Captain, but seeing as outside onlookers will assume anything they are doing has your approval, its a big risk when the Pathfinder name and general tolerance of that role are so important. Especially when you're continually being burned by 'gave them an inch, they took a mile'.

Ultimately, whilst we can dissect these decisions, we know nothing will come of it. The game wants you to treat it as fun loving crew are fast and loose with the rules because they aren't military, get into trouble, have capers, grow closer. And I can accept that for one game at least. But they really need the crew to start acting more professional and have Ryder adopt more of a 'Do your thing guys, but *this* far and no further okay? Or else.'

And frankly, the inability to fire Leliana after her quite astoundingly stupid decisions in DAI is far worse. Calling all your scouts in because you're worried they might get hurt AND TELLING NOBODY THAT SHE'D DONE IT?! Get out of my army forever - the army I luckily still have no thanks to you... And if you thinking this is some double standard to what I said above, I believe it very aptly demonstrates the idiocy of assigning authority to your character for having the Mark, without checking if you were at all qualified for such a role. The fact that you can let her off with a slap on the wrist at worst (which far from teaching her the error of her ways, sends her ciompletely off the rails shows the overly simplistic 'let's all be a happy family sneering at everyone outside our Inner Circle' writing Bioware too often employs.

This. Yes please.  

I wish I could give you an extra three thumbs up for this.  This is so spot on for me.

So incredibly well put. Especially the first to paragraphs for how they sum up BW's approach to MEA. At some point there has to be that line otherwise the title should be MEA: Space Cowboys. MEA2 new and improved featuring cast of Firefly. Frankly, that might get them a ton of sales. I shouldn't post this. We'll have new characters voiced by... cast of firefly. And I'm not sure if that wouldn't be an improvement. I guess if my Ryder stayed the same? But seriously the problem is that the maturity green thing. I think they took it too far and didn't allow for the possibility that Ryder might have some common sense and wits. This is why I complain about how Ryder was handled and say they really forced you into this average or below average role. They wanted you to live so deep in the shadow of your dead dad that they plucked away all common sense and all ability to recognize bad behavior and respond to it at any level. In that way, Ryder is a failure as a character. Hell, just for the fact that his father appears to be tough as nail in that first scene where whatever comment you make gets you a kind of reprimand, that alone should have Ryder grasping that there are times to take things seriously and have to be firm with your crew. Clearly this was nothing new to ryder. But even later, it never seems to translate into any tangible kind of leadership abilities which by the time peebee and  liam pull their stunts it should have more than 'your grounded'.