Sairys
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sairys on May 29, 2017 19:24:59 GMT
Except your Ryder is the boss, and any boss that had an employee give secrets out to another company or do any of the other stuff he did without your authority, let alone a boss of an employee who pulls the escape pod incident like Peebee did would be a boss that fires said employees. It DOES mean they get fired. They aren't fellow co-workers, you are supposed to be their BOSS.
But that's another complaint I have, your Ryder doesn't get to act like the leader, you are written to be a young inexperienced newb.Exactly. And this is where I say you can tell good writing from shit writing because a good/great writer would sit back and look at what they created and then edit if by asking it that works. If it makes sense. If it fits the characters and the situations. Now if you want so much for your character to be new and green for the whole thing then a good writer would question the actions of peebee and Liam. They would tone them down so Ryder doesn't appear to be lacking in both balls and common sense. They would ask if everyone could buy that a green ryder would be okay with it. That they give you some recourse shows they know what they wrote requires recourse. But basically they are saying your ryder is a pushover idiot with no leadership skills, no common sense, green to the point of stupid because the rash actions of these two that are high risk action get fluffed off. Any writer worth their salt would have rewritten or scrubbed these two missions realizing that plenty of people would find the actions of these two crew too problematic to ignore. They would recognize the writing won't work because it won't be believable to enough people or that it would be out of character for many people playing their Ryder as serious and less green or with more common sense. My thoughts are their writers are probably greener than Ryder. Or they just don't care or even try for that matter. Or that they are the kind of writer that likes/writes Young Adult novels.
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Post by abaris on May 29, 2017 19:30:08 GMT
But that's another complaint I have, your Ryder doesn't get to act like the leader, you are written to be a young inexperienced newb. That's a bit unfair. I had the same opinion, but in most instances you can actually play headstrong Ryder. But that takes a conscious decision based on prior knowledge that emotional responses mostly come off as silly. You have to avoid them like the plague, which limits your reply options even further. The only instances where you can't escape Ryder looking like a dork are cutscenes without any interrupts.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2017 19:42:04 GMT
It's just the writing. Much as I like the game, the writing in it is pure awful at times. It assumes the average player is about 10 years old and therefore we have relationships that are written for ten year olds and situations, characters and issues that are generally on par with that. MEA suffers as a whole for it. Something is very wrong when you read a letter from an STG agent that is overall professional and he calls the criminal a scumbag. There's no universe where I see that happening. It's just so out of place but... written for a 10 year old. Even my niece and nephew both around 13 understood that what Liam and Peebee did was really bad. One asked if it could be treason. Granted there is a great deal of talk about treason these days with regards to politics but still, that they take it so lightly isn't really helpful to society on whole. This sort of minimization of things and dumbing down of writing in general in all media has made society at large quite dense. Adults do idiotic things because they don't think through the consequences or think them through in a very wrong way. RL provides you examples of grown up wise folks that did BS far worse than Liam blindsided by agendas. from his conversations, it does feel that he has that cold seizure in his chest when he realizes that his Angara contact is kidnapped. The thing is, he does go to Ryder when he could have kept it quiet or go out on his own to try to cover it up. So, he did own up to his mistake, and the next scene we see with him, is Liam organizing a soccer match on Eos, something that is actually appropriate to fostering cooperation. While it is not spelled out, I think that shows him losing some of that juvenile brash conviction that he knows better. I am just hoping that him maturing in game #2 will not take shape of him marrying someone and settling to raise kids, in a Jacob syndrome, more along the lines of losing verbal diarrhea, and acting in a grave, dignified way, so you end up going: Liam?
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caridounette
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by caridounette on May 29, 2017 21:36:42 GMT
Having space to grow is a great thing for companion characters. Think of Garrus. When a character is already the best as this and that, or the perfect woman, the usual arc for them is convoluted self-sacrifice. Like Miranda. Even with her ties to Cerberus, writers couldnt figure out something interesting for her in ME3.
I blame the cartoonish writing style for the Liam and Peebee situation more then anything. Liam and Peebee's missions were light-hearted in their implementation (in Liams's things escalade to goofyness and everyone ends up smiling before the end of the mission and in Peebee's its all a set-up for her to say she's staying and the crew to leave her dry) but with the severity of the premises, they did not let the player have a wide enough range of reactions. its ok that the game can be played like a sit-com, but it shouldnt be restricted to that.
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Post by congokong on May 30, 2017 1:53:44 GMT
Except your Ryder is the boss, and any boss that had an employee give secrets out to another company or do any of the other stuff he did without your authority, let alone a boss of an employee who pulls the escape pod incident like Peebee did would be a boss that fires said employees. It DOES mean they get fired. They aren't fellow co-workers, you are supposed to be their BOSS.
But that's another complaint I have, your Ryder doesn't get to act like the leader, you are written to be a young inexperienced newb.Exactly. And this is where I say you can tell good writing from shit writing because a good/great writer would sit back and look at what they created and then edit if by asking it that works. If it makes sense. If it fits the characters and the situations. Now if you want so much for your character to be new and green for the whole thing then a good writer would question the actions of peebee and Liam. They would tone them down so Ryder doesn't appear to be lacking in both balls and common sense. They would ask if everyone could buy that a green ryder would be okay with it. That they give you some recourse shows they know what they wrote requires recourse. But basically they are saying your ryder is a pushover idiot with no leadership skills, no common sense, green to the point of stupid because the rash actions of these two that are high risk action get fluffed off. Any writer worth their salt would have rewritten or scrubbed these two missions realizing that plenty of people would find the actions of these two crew too problematic to ignore. They would recognize the writing won't work because it won't be believable to enough people or that it would be out of character for many people playing their Ryder as serious and less green or with more common sense. My thoughts are their writers are probably greener than Ryder. Or they just don't care or even try for that matter. I can strongly relate to this. If the writers are going to have Ryder deal with very controversial actions by characters, they should allow you to role-play various ways to deal with it rather than being funneled into a certain narrative that many won't agree with. It's for this reason that I no longer complete "The Little Things That Matter," as that quest is one of the worst cases of inability to role-play; specifically the inability to punish Dr. Kennedy for her abhorrent behavior. It's even worse there as, unlike with PeeBee and Liam, you cannot so much as scold her, or scold Addison for prioritizing "the first baby in Andromeda" which comes down to nothing more than symbolism.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 3:47:23 GMT
Liam is the worst character I've ever met in BioWare games. He's simply an idiot, I thought that Cora is boring and stupid but then Liam showed up. I don't understand why we don't have option to throw him out of the airlock. I hate that every companion in Mass Effect games is forced to be your best friend no matter what, I thougth that it will change in Andromeda, but no. If there ever will be MEA2 I don't want him to be there. Liam's bland, but he's not out of the airlock bland. I watched one video where the author commented on the waving scene right at the start of the game: "Hi, I'm the human squad mate, you never use after the first mission". I tend to agree. But with the exception of Drack and to a certain degree Peebee, everyone's bland on this ship. Gil, in my opinion, takes the cake of blandness. He's not a companion as such, but I find myself avoiding any conversation if at all possible. There's never been another Bioware character triggering the yawn impulse nearly as much. And if you are a gay male, he is your only romance option. I am surprised gay men who wanted a romance don't hate the hell out of this game.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 30, 2017 4:07:10 GMT
I like Gil fine as a character, more so than his OT equivalent Adams, but he really should have been more of a stronger tech geek type persona somehow. At least Suvi gets to be all enthusiastic about science and discovery, but Gil is pretty much all about poker…and antagonizing Kallo. If I was looking for an m/m relationship for Ryder on the ship, I'd be pretty dissatisfied with that guy. Cortez was a much better option, despite my reservations about the circumstances of his availability, because overall he got to be a more well-rounded character with more of a story and greater contribution overall throughout the game.
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nastrodamus
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Hates heals, you should try it sometime!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by nastrodamus on May 30, 2017 6:10:26 GMT
Why do you keep calling it a silly hair cut? Have you not seen any black people? That's some of our natural hairstyle. Undoubtedly only when they're combing the desert for enemies. Are you sure Liam's last name really isn't asshole?
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Post by smilesja on May 30, 2017 21:44:58 GMT
Well I actually enjoyed Liam's mission and liked that you can yell at him afterwards.
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Amirit
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Post by Amirit on May 31, 2017 14:18:39 GMT
Liam's bland, but he's not out of the airlock bland. I watched one video where the author commented on the waving scene right at the start of the game: "Hi, I'm the human squad mate, you never use after the first mission". I tend to agree. But with the exception of Drack and to a certain degree Peebee, everyone's bland on this ship. Gil, in my opinion, takes the cake of blandness. He's not a companion as such, but I find myself avoiding any conversation if at all possible. There's never been another Bioware character triggering the yawn impulse nearly as much. And if you are a gay male, he is your only romance option. I am surprised gay men who wanted a romance don't hate the hell out of this game. Reyes is also a possibility, and one of the best romance in the game. P.S. Am I the only one who does like Gil and does not want to change him in any way?
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Post by JewlieGhoulie on May 31, 2017 14:22:45 GMT
:looks around: daaaamn I had no idea Liam was that disliked: the first page was a roast , I didn't bother reading the others.
That being said, I liked his Loyalty Mission even if ... in game logic, he seriously did mess up. But, he owns it? I mean , props for that!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2017 9:26:35 GMT
:looks around: daaaamn I had no idea Liam was that disliked: the first page was a roast , I didn't bother reading the others. That being said, I liked his Loyalty Mission even if ... in game logic, he seriously did mess up. But, he owns it? I mean , props for that! Believe me, I know a LOT of people who really like Liam. They just stay away from hate threads like this one. For obvious reasons.
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Post by abaris on Jun 1, 2017 9:46:27 GMT
Reyes is also a possibility, and one of the best romance in the game. P.S. Am I the only one who does like Gil and does not want to change him in any way? The very best, I would say. Also a much more interesting character than most in this game. Not sure about Gil. As I said before, I'd really like to hear gay opinions on him. For me he came over as cardboard gay. A checklist to be ticked off. There's one thing I'd like to add to this, I actually like the Kallo, Gil part over the ship. I just avoid direct conversations, since they bore me to bits.
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ozzie
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Post by ozzie on Jun 1, 2017 10:19:05 GMT
:looks around: daaaamn I had no idea Liam was that disliked: the first page was a roast , I didn't bother reading the others. That being said, I liked his Loyalty Mission even if ... in game logic, he seriously did mess up. But, he owns it? I mean , props for that! Well, first impressions are everything, I think most people made their mind up on him during the first mission and couldn't wait to be shot of him. When I did eventually decide to give him a second chance he started off wildly spray praying with his pissy little SMG, threw a grenade at me while I was trying CQB the enemy, the final straw was when we got back in the Nomad and he started pontificating at the other squad mate. At this point I just turned the Nomad round, headed for the nearest FOB and ordered him back to the Tempest permanently. Liam is only the second character I have ever felt then need to cut from my team in Mass Effect, the first literally had to murder another squad mate to get that treatment.
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