Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 27, 2017 20:59:56 GMT
*shrug* Feel free to stay in your comfort zone, don't entertain ideas that you believe that you might disagree with. In a less partisan political environment there would be nothing controversial about this documentary. She was a feminist and she's still very much a feminist in her ideology, all that changed is that she stopped automatically dismissing claims that there's inequality that and problems on the side of men too.
I mean a "death gap", a "suicide gap", and "homelessness gap" are at the very least just as serious of an issue as the mythical "wage gap".
And since we reached the point at which there are regulations made against crucial problems such as "man-spreading", it's probably time to take a step back and reevaluate the issue at hand.
Note: I haven't actually watched the movie yet, but I did watch an interview or two she did about it.
Oh I've entertained plenty of ideas over the years. Its one of the reasons why I went from Left to beign centric. Its just that this is one of those cases where I simply can't help but facepalm at it. Since you haven't listened to the argument, you don't know what you're facepalming.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:00:08 GMT
The males only have themselves to blame for that with their Alpha behaviour. So victim blaming is okay?
If we didn't set up this image of "a manly man" through out the centuries then those guys probably wouldn't be affraid now to report those things.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:04:59 GMT
If we didn't set up this image of "a manly man" through out the centuries then those guys probably wouldn't be affraid now to report those things. "We" didn't set up anything. But there's really no point in arguing if you are going to engage in victim blaming. Then who did?
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:07:09 GMT
1: Children are generally closer to their mother, so they tend to get child custody because of that. 2: Lol male sexual assault is a thing? Don't tell me males actually get raped by woman on a daily basis. I don't know what country you live in but in mine its possible for everyone to get help when it comes to that. Though the idea of males facing domestic abuse kind of makes me laugh at the same time. They can't even stand up to their own partner? Plus their is always divorce options.
If a man was drugged, tied down and forced into sex by another person, what would that be???
And yes, men are domestically abused. Both men being raped and domestic abuse happens less often than it does for females, but it still happens. Not all men are strong. And even if they were, love comes into play often in situations of domestic abuse. You forgive the abusers because you love them, because you think that they would never intentionally do it, or its just a rare occurrence when they get especially emotional... it isnt just limited to women, men go through it too. Its just the way the world works.
So they don't report it then? Where does that prove they wouldn't receive help if they asked? Because so far all I'm hearing is that men in these cases generally don't have the courage to report these things in the first place.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:09:58 GMT
I don't know. You claimed that "da patriarchy" did something, I mean, obviously I disagree, but in any case it has no bearing on the issue and it isn't an excuse to engage in victim blaming. So you're saying then that there is no such thing as the idea of men beign able to cry or show emotions is considered weak by today's standards?
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Post by sjpelke on Jun 27, 2017 21:13:58 GMT
I have seen parts of it due to it being send to me. I have to say that I was impressed by her, coming back on (imho narrowminded views) when it comes to 'rights' for women in general.
Over time feminism went down a road I could no longer understand since it was all about more rights for women and less for men basically. More obligations for men and less for women in a lot of ways.
Equality is good, and the first femisists were all about getting right to vote, among others. The whole matter derailed over time and turned into bickering about futile things.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jun 27, 2017 21:14:30 GMT
If we didn't set up this image of "a manly man" through out the centuries then those guys probably wouldn't be affraid now to report those things. "We" didn't set up anything. But there's really no point in arguing if you are going to engage in victim blaming. Depends what he means by "we." Throughout history, men in positions of power have been the arbiters of what is and is not appropriate gender behavior. Those views were absorbed into the social fabric at the time and have since been carried forth to today by both men and women. This is what I think is commonly referred to as "patriarchy." This kind of ghost of our forefathers' ideology.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:14:54 GMT
So you're saying then that there is no such thing as the idea of men beign able to cry or show emotions is considered weak by today's standards? Largely? Yeah. Men and women are different on average when it comes to handling emotions, and that's very likely biological in nature due to different hormones and chemical balance.
But on occasion I did see men show emotion or cry, and absolutely nothing happened. The goon squad from da patriarchy didn't come to take away their manliness card.
So in that case can you explain again why the majority are affraid then to report the abuse they suffered at the hands of their partner? Because it sounds like they have nothing to fear then.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:15:55 GMT
"We" didn't set up anything. But there's really no point in arguing if you are going to engage in victim blaming. Depends what he means by "we." Throughout history, men in positions of power have been the arbiters of what is and is not appropriate gender behavior. Those views were absorbed into the social fabric at the time and have since been carried forth to today by both men and women. This is what I think is commonly referred to as "patriarchy." This kind of ghost of our forefathers' ideology. Finally. Someone who gets it.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 27, 2017 21:16:23 GMT
Yeah, I'm calling this the pullback point. Take further discussion of the general topic back to the politics thread. Alternatively, watch the documentary and discuss its specifics one way or the other.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jun 27, 2017 21:19:33 GMT
Yeah, I'm calling this the pullback point. Take further discussion of the general topic back to the politics thread. Alternatively, watch the documentary and discuss its specifics one way or the other. Why? Gender studies and sociology are different subjects than political science.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:21:52 GMT
So in that case can you explain again why the majority are affraid then to report the abuse they suffered at the hands of their partner? Because it sounds like they have nothing to fear then. It doesn't matter what I think about this, the point is that this isn't a reason to engage in victim blaming. Now you're just dodging the whole thing. I'm showing you where the problem comes from in the first place, but apperantly that doesn't matter, because oh noes victim blaming.
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Post by DomeWing333 on Jun 27, 2017 21:24:10 GMT
Depends what he means by "we." Throughout history, men in positions of power have been the arbiters of what is and is not appropriate gender behavior. Those views were absorbed into the social fabric at the time and have since been carried forth to today by both men and women. This is what I think is commonly referred to as "patriarchy." This kind of ghost of our forefathers' ideology. Finally. Someone who gets it. Well. Kind of. There's a difference between blaming society at large for continuing on the mindset that discourages abused men from seeking help and saying "The males only have themselves to blame."
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 21:25:57 GMT
Finally. Someone who gets it. Well. Kind of. There's a difference between blaming society at large for continuing on the mindset that discourages abused men from seeking help and saying "The males only have themselves to blame." When I said that I pretty much meant society throughout the centuries.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jun 27, 2017 21:26:16 GMT
Yeah, I'm calling this the pullback point. Take further discussion of the general topic back to the politics thread. Alternatively, watch the documentary and discuss its specifics one way or the other. Why? Gender studies and sociology are different subjects than political science. At this time, the politics thread serves as a catchall for RL socio-political issues (which are often very related anyway). This is the allowance we've made for "RL issues" on an otherwise gaming/random fun stuff board. This thread is being allowed on the grounds that it's specifically about the film. If that is not the case, it will be locked. Edit: and now we take a little break for that to sink in. We'll return shortly.
We're back. Kindly keep to the film or lock becomes permanent.
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Post by Ocelot on Jun 27, 2017 22:26:29 GMT
Eh, no worries, I'm done anyway.
I'll only add that while I don't agree with MRA's, I don't have a problem with the creator itself. As someone else already stated, the main message is compassion.
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