bizantura
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Post by bizantura on Sept 12, 2016 15:37:33 GMT
Turians mirror the cabal from earth. Ask people if they could survive without "mother" state. Not many, so theire's your answer why scumbags are a nesesary evil. Which is kind of funny, since Garrus says he's a bad Turian. The reason people like him is because he isn't very Turian at all. In that I agree. Garrus does not reflect Turians in general. A very likeable rebel he is.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 12, 2016 15:38:15 GMT
In Hudson's words, those other races like Elcor weren't necessarily attempts at humor.. but to just be interesting/cool for being "there". Background/props. I think the Volus are interesting for other reasons though, because they've had Council ambitions for so long, but got screwed. Not at the start of the series no, but they certainly got there with the whole Elcor Hamlet, and Blasto bits though. Even in their background/prop status, I still found the Elcor and Hanar to be more interesting than listening to Grunt scream: I AM KROGAN! and having Wrex opine about the Genophage constantly. BioWare just got lazy with them, if they put half as much effort into making the Elcor into a fully realized alien species as they did beating us over the head with dead Krogan babies, I'm positive that the setting would have been more diverse and nuanced than it is. As for the Volus, I'm with you there. The species responsible for the creation of, and managing of the entire galactic economy wouldn't be playing second fiddle to anyone, least of all these upstart newcomers that somehow can surpass their established holdings in less than thirty years with their 'superior genetic diversity'.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2016 18:05:03 GMT
Because Turians are badass. And I like how people don't want to see Geth/Quarians(at least in that thread, that actually matches BioWare's behind closed doors survey and sample, look it up), since their story is completely done, the "omg quarians are ship experts" is overused and arguably not even spot on, yeah, they keep their junk fleet floating(some ships are just too old), wow, such feat. People liked Tali, but the whole race is boring, fragile and arguably useless for intergalactic travel and especially exploration. I mean we've seen how good explorers they are, getting rekt by a pack of varren(ME2 side quest), the big alien from the EA play video could smash a whole quarian squad. Not sure about drell, people probably like them the least out of the options in that poll. Why are Turians badass? They got their arses kicked by a bunch of hairless apes who had been spacefairing for a thousand less years than them, got their asses kicked by battletoads and were saved by a salarian engineered plague, proceeded to produce the galaxy's worst terrorist (who almost brought about the apocalypse in no small part due to also producing the universe's most pointlessly obstructionist councilor), and their entire Citadel fleet is blown to bits almost as an afterthought by a small fraction of the geth (fortunately, the hairless apes were there to save them). ME3 shows us yet more of their "badassery" when a tiny group of human space Nazis make a mockery of turian attempt at a simple drop and grab of a bomb they planted. Unlike most other missions the player can ignore (which usually still get done, albiet with higher casualties) If Shepard doesn't do the mission, the turians fail and the bomb explodes. Half of the krogan population is taken down by turian incompetence. Oh, and they also need Kal'Reegar and a bunch of those same "boring, fragile and useless" quarians to retake a crucial comm relay (on their own home planet of Palaven, no less) that their supposed "badassery" apparently isn't good enough for. When you need a problem shot, ask a turian. They'll come in, miss the problem, see it's a human (or a krogan, or a geth) and lose to it, deny it exists, then ask a human (or salarian or maybe even a quarian) to solve it for them. While I don't completely agree with this post, it's fucking awesome. I also like quarians too.
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GannayevOfDreams
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Sept 12, 2016 18:42:16 GMT
Turians are probably my favorite MW species aside from Humans. Could be because we seem to have so much in common. One thing about them that really stands out is their sense of duty and loyalty. Qualities I admire. Sure, it works to their detriment at times, but that actually (and ironically) humanizes them greatly.
My other two would be Asari and Salarians. Pretty much your prime Council Member species. Lets face it, they're on the council for a reason. They're some of the most capable species in the galaxy across multiple domains.
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Post by straykat on Sept 12, 2016 18:48:41 GMT
Turians are probably my favorite MW species aside from Humans. Could be because we seem to have so much in common. One thing about them that really stands out is their sense of duty and loyalty. Qualities I admire. Sure, it works to their detriment at times, but that actually (and ironically) humanizes them greatly. My other two would be Asari and Salarians. Pretty much your prime Council Member species. Lets face it, they're on the council for a reason. They're some of the most capable species in the galaxy across multiple domains. Asari are on the Council because they discovered it. Which isn't some great feat of their own. That just means they're the first of the Reaper's victims. "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire." And then Asari block everyone from Prothean artifacts, while making laws against everyone else not to do so. They maintain power because they keep others down. Not to mention block other races for millennia like the Volus, who have been as long around as them.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Sept 12, 2016 18:59:51 GMT
Turians are probably my favorite MW species aside from Humans. Could be because we seem to have so much in common. One thing about them that really stands out is their sense of duty and loyalty. Qualities I admire. Sure, it works to their detriment at times, but that actually (and ironically) humanizes them greatly. My other two would be Asari and Salarians. Pretty much your prime Council Member species. Lets face it, they're on the council for a reason. They're some of the most capable species in the galaxy across multiple domains. Asari are on the Council because they discovered it. Which isn't some great feat of their own. That just means they're the first of the Reaper's victims. "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire." And then Asari block everyone from Prothean artifacts, while making laws against everyone else not to do so. They maintain power because they keep others down. Not to mention block other races for millennia like the Volus, who have been as long around as them. Every species maintains power by keeping rivals down, so that seems irrelevant. It is part and parcel of human power struggles long before we reached the stars. I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that Humans would have done the exact same thing had we discovered the Prothean artifacts first. Not a shred of doubt. No point in casting stones from our glass house, etc. As a matter of fact, Cerberus is proof of that. They operate below and beyond the law in order to give our species a competitive advantage. Is any of it ethical? No. At the end of the day Asari are still the most advanced species in the the Milky Way, so I want them on my team.
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Post by shechinah on Sept 12, 2016 19:07:01 GMT
Not just that, but they discovered the Citadel not long after the Asari. There's a good reason why that Volus ambassador is so rude... What I meant to say is not only that they deserved to get a seat, but that I find it very implausible that a race that controls the galactic economy can be made into a joke by the council. If anything, I find it more likely that the Turians would have entered an equal partnership with them, than the idea that the Volus became a "client race". That's like saying that the largest bank in the world is a subdivision of their security company... I thought it was wierd that the volus for some reason were not members of the Council. It is also said council candidates need to provide some extraordinary service like the turians during the krogan rebellions and humanity during the geth invasion but the volus were instrumental in building the galactic economy and they even continue to monitor and balance the economy to the present day. I would have thought that counted as an extraordinary service: I don't see why this service would need to be military.
I don't even think this was how the salarians became a Council race: I think they were a member of the Council before the Rachni Wars and that their membership came from discovering and helping found the Citadel Council.
I also don't even know how humanity is able to provide financial and military aid given that they haven't even been a part of galactic civilisation for that long in the beginning.
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Post by straykat on Sept 12, 2016 19:08:05 GMT
Asari are on the Council because they discovered it. Which isn't some great feat of their own. That just means they're the first of the Reaper's victims. "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your civilization develops along the paths we desire." And then Asari block everyone from Prothean artifacts, while making laws against everyone else not to do so. They maintain power because they keep others down. Not to mention block other races for millennia like the Volus, who have been as long around as them. Every species maintains power by keeping rivals down, so that seems irrelevant. It is part and parcel of human power struggles long before we reached the stars. I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that Humans would have done the exact same thing had we discovered the Prothean artifacts first. Not a shred of doubt. No point in casting stones from our glass house, etc. As a matter of fact, Cerberus is proof of that. They operate below and beyond the law in order to give our species a competitive advantage. Is any of it ethical? No. At the end of the day Asari are still the most advanced species in the the Milky Way, so I want them on my team. It's not irrelevant. It's a big reveal in ME3. Cerberus is just the Renegade side of controlling things. Asari are like the Paragon side. But control is what it is either way. Same goes for Liara in her private concerns.. she becomes the shadow broker. Another form of control. And I don't like either of these. Telling me they're like Cerberus doesn't do it any favors. As for advancement --- Nobody is really advanced. That's kind of the point of Mass Effect. People turn into consumers and scavengers and lose sight of their actual potential. They can't even understand shit on the Citadel, because the Keepers block them from doing it. Javik said his people made the same mistake.. they bullshitted themselves into thinking they were masters of the universe. People are more like cows being led down an enclosure in a slaughterhouse.
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Post by GannayevOfDreams on Sept 12, 2016 19:29:53 GMT
Every species maintains power by keeping rivals down, so that seems irrelevant. It is part and parcel of human power struggles long before we reached the stars. I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that Humans would have done the exact same thing had we discovered the Prothean artifacts first. Not a shred of doubt. No point in casting stones from our glass house, etc. As a matter of fact, Cerberus is proof of that. They operate below and beyond the law in order to give our species a competitive advantage. Is any of it ethical? No. At the end of the day Asari are still the most advanced species in the the Milky Way, so I want them on my team. It's not irrelevant. It's a big reveal in ME3. Cerberus is just the Renegade side of controlling things. Asari are like the Paragon side. But control is what it is either way. Same goes for Liara in her private concerns.. she becomes the shadow broker. Another form of control. And I don't like either of these. Telling me they're like Cerberus doesn't do it any favors. As for advancement --- Nobody is really advanced. That's kind of the point of Mass Effect. People turn into consumers and scavengers and lose sight of their actual potential. They can't even understand shit on the Citadel, because the Keepers block them from doing it. Javik said his people made the same mistake.. they bullshitted themselves into thinking they were masters of the universe. People are more like cows being led down an enclosure in a slaughterhouse. The fact of what they were doing was the big reveal, the underlying motivations are not. They can't be. We've been doing it throughout our own history. Maybe people naively thought the Asari were better than such things, but it really shouldn't be surprising. I don't really understand your opinions on "control". Everything about our modern society is based on our ability to control our environment, and every sapient species sets out to do exactly that. Whether it is "paragon" or "renegade" control only matters when measured against the standards and practices of that society. Also, advancement isn't used the way you're attempting to use it. It isn't a static adjective you grant to a species. Saying that we're "advanced" carries the implicit comparison to a point in our own past. The humans of 2016 are more advanced than the humans of 1916. Compared to the humans of 2116 we're not. Levels of advancement only matter relative to some other point. As of ME3, and before the Reaper invasion, the Asari are the most technologically and economically advanced species relative to all other MW species. Was it the unethical hoarding of Prothean tech? Perhaps. Is it the fact they've been around the longest of the current cycle? Maybe that too. Maybe it's some other quality that isn't obvious. Most likely its a little bit of everything. The fact remains, they're the most advanced species in the MW galaxy at the time of the Reaper invasion.
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Post by zlojeb on Sept 12, 2016 19:35:58 GMT
Gotta love the fluff roleplaying accounts in here
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Post by straykat on Sept 12, 2016 19:49:56 GMT
edit: Weird. Lemme edit this. Post came out in all Code. Meh. Forget it. That post broke post for some reason. I'll just say this... GannayevOfDreams said: I don't control anyone... or want to. Or condone it. Let alone treat entire groups of people this way or horde things from them. I'd prefer people find what makes them creative and empower themselves. If anything, I'll benefit from that more. I don't know why you use examples like this or in-game factions like Cerberus and think that's going to convince me. I don't like any of it, and it's disappointing that Asari turned out no better. And what I said had nothing to do with advancement in general. I'm talking about the games -- after the point of discovering the Relays, you're following the Reaper's path. You want to give all kinds of credit to the Asari, but the only difference now is that they've been consumers longer than everyone else. In addition to that, they're using Prothean (not just Reaper) artifacts (or maybe it's a little of both). I'm not going to give them credit for just being around longer and using stashed relics for their knowledge. I'll give the Geth more credit than the Asari.
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Post by straykat on Sept 12, 2016 20:05:46 GMT
Gotta love the fluff roleplaying accounts in here What do you mean Roleplaying? Because I get the feeling that GannayevOfDreams is Xilthra But Xen is not roleplaying. It's really Xen.
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Post by Milady on Sept 12, 2016 20:38:44 GMT
Because turians are epic. That's why. Oh and all of the arguments above of course.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 12, 2016 21:06:23 GMT
I like Primarch Victus. I wouldn't complain if a turian similiar to him is in the game
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Post by Garo on Sept 12, 2016 21:26:33 GMT
Turians are just kind of trustworthy, I would say. They get shit done. Also they look like dinosaurs. I wouldn't say I like them more than every other race but they are cool overall.
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Post by commandercryptarch on Sept 12, 2016 22:43:41 GMT
Everyone has perctly covered me with their answers. I will add one more.
I just like looking at them.Ever since I laid eyes on Garrus for the first time I just loved every aspect of Turian design. They are basically bipedal avian dinocats! Hehehe
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Post by straykat on Sept 13, 2016 8:16:07 GMT
Theoretically, given the option, do you honestly think that the other races of the MW galaxy wouldn't hide some Prothean goodies, if as leverage for a rainy day, or to boost their understanding of Eezo-based technology? Hell, I find it very likely that other races actually did that - and various auto-quests in ME3 support my hypothesis. (you get small quests to collect various Prothean artifacts that were "suddenly discovered" and in danger do to the invasion) As for control, sorry to break it to you, but that's how global politics work today, and likely how galactic politics work in ME. Every political move by a state today has the potential to influence large numbers of people, directly or indirectly. And no country is innocent of that, you simply can't play the game otherwise. The only thing the Asari are guilty of, is playing the same political game that everyone else was playing. The fact that they mostly came ahead of everyone else if by luck and circumstances or something else, is largely irrelevant. The Asari mostly kept galactic politics stable. Do you think that the Turians would have done a better job? I mean they started shooting before initiating contact during a first contact scenario, just think of the implication of this kind of bullheaded attitude, and then apply on a galactic scale. You're not breaking anything to me. I prefer not to be a controller or user. It's kind of my MO. Everyone's got a theme for their roleplaying. This is mine. It's why I don't give a shit about Cerberus or the Asari alike. Or the Reapers for that matter. Or Leviathan. Or whoever else comes next. lol. If it was so simple and obviously correct, these wouldn't be choices to disagree with in the games.
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Post by straykat on Sept 13, 2016 8:35:28 GMT
You're not breaking anything to me. I'm just playing a game. I prefer not to be a controller or user. It's kind of my MO. Everyone's got a theme for their roleplaying. This is mine. It's why I don't give a shit about Cerberus or the Asari alike. Or the Reapers for that matter. Or Leviathan. Or whoever else comes next. lol. If it was so simple and obviously correct, these wouldn't be choices to disagree with in the games. Sure, but you don't think that politics in a game should make sense? It doesn't matter anyhow. All of this supposed galactic stability you want to give to the Asari is part of the Reaper's plan. When I speak against control, I'm ultimately speaking against them. The Asari are just a minor detail or a symptom of it. And when I destroy Reapers, it's because I'm not as wary of chaos as the Catalyst is. This should tell what I think about politics too. At least somewhat. I'm as classically liberal as I can be. Politics isn't just about controlling people. But empowering them.
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Post by shodiswe on Sept 13, 2016 10:20:29 GMT
Garrus....
Also, they are alien aliens, while their society is supposed to make them rigid it still seems like there there is a lot of different types of Turians. They all seem to have their own views of what makes a real Turian.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 13, 2016 12:30:05 GMT
Garrus.... Also, they are alien aliens, while their society is supposed to make them rigid it still seems like there there is a lot of different types of Turians. They all seem to have their own views of what makes a real Turian. I wouldn't say that they are 'alien', different looking certainly, but they aren't nearly as foreign to our way of thinking as the Thorian, Rachni, (ME 1) Elcor, and Hanar, or the (ME 2) Geth were.
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