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Post by colfoley on Jun 18, 2017 5:09:02 GMT
and there's the other group. Granted, of course there is nothing wrong with what i am going to point out. But there is nothing 'wrong' with the game. Aside from being a little buggy. Just those who really liked the OT seem to want either more of the same or an escelation to the OT. The second view is a bit silly because if you made a BIGGER LARGER threat then the Reapers fresh into a new story it'd get old and the problem is then what? Another escalation? The former comes down to bioware was not interested in telling that kind of story...this time. So it comes down to personal taste. Because MEA improved on the OTs roleplay. Was very well written. And was fun to play. Just it was a desecalation and not a war story. Another head scratching comment that you present as truth. Choices have never mattered less. I guess you mean you can do things in the order you want? Because choosing between 4 very similar personalities doesn’t really equate to role playing versus choosing between two completely different roles (paragon vs renegade). In Andromeda, we’re just choosing the neutral response every time, flavoured slightly differently. your choices matter a lot in Andromeda. Some of them anyways. Way more then ME 3. Which might be a little unfair and low hanging fruit but i can think of at least four major decision points that are addressed outside the quest they are featured in. Plus several minor decision points here and there. As for the dialogue wheel you and i will probably just have to disagree. You can play Ryder at least according to one of three major personality types with several minor variances that flesh out their character ( ie the god conversation, your relationship to your father) in so much as my Ryders have been entirely different from one another. Granted not as much as my inquisitors but then that was a roleplay choice on my part. And also granted i am still tinkering with Cassandra a little. And again this is far superior to how bioware executed the system in the OT. It was a great idea in theory they just phoned it in. Especially with me 3.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 18, 2017 5:32:10 GMT
Let me put it this way. METs system was concerned with morality, Andromeda s was concerned with personality.
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warrior
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I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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I don't like MP!
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Post by warrior on Jun 18, 2017 5:35:24 GMT
I think what he means is that you can't play as an asshole if you want to.
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Post by suikoden on Jun 18, 2017 8:04:00 GMT
In Andromeda, we’re just choosing the neutral response every time, flavoured slightly differently. Why should the dichotomy of paragon/renegade or other similar systems be used as the default when it comes to roleplaying? The fact is that even if multiple dialogue "personalities" were possible, the distinctiveness makes them less cohesive when used in tandem because they stand out too much individually. There is less consistency if multiple dialogue styles are used. This reinforced sticking to one tone per run, even if there were no rewards. A baseline neutrality is actually arguably the best method to convey dialogue, as rather than focus on tone the dialogue focuses on intent.
As a result it's far easier to roleplay the character. Fortunately, there are many moments in the game where you can actually impose tone on the character. If all you want is a baseline neutrality, you might as well be playing a story on rails where you just click through dialogue to get to the next battle. All the roleplaying that’s currently happening is made up in the player’s head - as the consequences are all basically the same (military vs science = who cares / they’re just placeholders that do nothing). The personality system is just smoke and mirrors - the illusion of choice by a lazy dev team that no longer have to connect loose threads because all the threads are connected to the same result. Yeah, you can choose science or military for example, but the difference between these two... is essentially identical to picking different colours at the end of ME3. It doesn’t matter.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 18, 2017 10:32:04 GMT
Why should the dichotomy of paragon/renegade or other similar systems be used as the default when it comes to roleplaying? The fact is that even if multiple dialogue "personalities" were possible, the distinctiveness makes them less cohesive when used in tandem because they stand out too much individually. There is less consistency if multiple dialogue styles are used. This reinforced sticking to one tone per run, even if there were no rewards. A baseline neutrality is actually arguably the best method to convey dialogue, as rather than focus on tone the dialogue focuses on intent.
As a result it's far easier to roleplay the character. Fortunately, there are many moments in the game where you can actually impose tone on the character. If all you want is a baseline neutrality, you might as well be playing a story on rails where you just click through dialogue to get to the next battle. All the roleplaying that’s currently happening is made up in the player’s head - as the consequences are all basically the same (military vs science = who cares / they’re just placeholders that do nothing). The personality system is just smoke and mirrors - the illusion of choice by a lazy dev team that no longer have to connect loose threads because all the threads are connected to the same result. Yeah, you can choose science or military for example, but the difference between these two... is essentially identical to picking different colours at the end of ME3. It doesn’t matter. you keep on referencing that quest and decision in particular but that is one of the big four decisions i am talking about. It's actually referenced later in the game and changes the flow and plot of a later important quest. Can't think of anything like it in the OT. I mean seriously all RPGs provide the illusion of choice. And I'm just sitting here wondering how you got through the witcher 3 when Geralts RP amounted too gruff or gruff with a side order of sarcasm.
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SpaceBard
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by SpaceBard on Jun 20, 2017 14:21:28 GMT
To me the personality/dialog system was not well developed. There's no progression mecanism of Casual/Emotional/Logical and Professional traits, there's no a count mether in this such options, that will reward you if you developer such trait, and THIS is the most flaw for reduct the replay factor to me. And this is why you don't fell the progression in game.
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SpaceBard
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 68 Likes: 50
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by SpaceBard on Jun 20, 2017 14:41:09 GMT
If all you want is a baseline neutrality, you might as well be playing a story on rails where you just click through dialogue to get to the next battle. All the roleplaying that’s currently happening is made up in the player’s head - as the consequences are all basically the same (military vs science = who cares / they’re just placeholders that do nothing). The personality system is just smoke and mirrors - the illusion of choice by a lazy dev team that no longer have to connect loose threads because all the threads are connected to the same result. Yeah, you can choose science or military for example, but the difference between these two... is essentially identical to picking different colours at the end of ME3. It doesn’t matter. you keep on referencing that quest and decision in particular but that is one of the big four decisions i am talking about. It's actually referenced later in the game and changes the flow and plot of a later important quest. Can't think of anything like it in the OT. I mean seriously all RPGs provide the illusion of choice. And I'm just sitting here wondering how you got through the witcher 3 when Geralts RP amounted too gruff or gruff with a side order of sarcasm. Yes! Molrality and choices dosen't matter for the main quest, but the outher things yes, because it's your legacy that you left in the world of the game, is a history that you build. To me RPG is a half writen book, that only the lore was written, but you write your legend.
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liquidsnake
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Post by liquidsnake on Jun 20, 2017 14:44:07 GMT
In Andromeda, we’re just choosing the neutral response every time, flavoured slightly differently. Why should the dichotomy of paragon/renegade or other similar systems be used as the default when it comes to roleplaying? The fact is that even if multiple dialogue "personalities" were possible, the distinctiveness makes them less cohesive when used in tandem because they stand out too much individually. There is less consistency if multiple dialogue styles are used. This reinforced sticking to one tone per run, even if there were no rewards. A baseline neutrality is actually arguably the best method to convey dialogue, as rather than focus on tone the dialogue focuses on intent.
As a result it's far easier to roleplay the character. Fortunately, there are many moments in the game where you can actually impose tone on the character. I quite liked the dialogue system in Andromeda as well. It let me roleplay Ryder in several different ways, and I wasn't forced or punished for choosing one dialogue option over the other and could switch between personality of lines. In the OT, which I loved the Paragon/Renegade system, I always played a Paragon Shepard, but there were times and situations where despite that, the Renegade response or interrupt was called for based on the personality of my own Shepard... however I always felt like the game was punishing me for doing that and that is absolutely silly. In Andromeda, my Ryder is sarcastic and a jokester. He likes to lighten a tense mood and doesn't take things overly seriously. However, he was in the Alliance and grew up with a strict father so he knows when to be serious. When I talked to my crew or most people, I used sarcastic or emotional dialogue choices. When I spoke with Tann in the beginning, when I met the Angara, talking to Archon or in other scenarios, I was very professional and serious. I was never penalized in game because of that switch in personality, which is how it always should be. I also realize having a voiced protagonist puts limitations on what the dialogue system can be and I think Andromeda found a fantastic balance for that. Honestly, I'd love if ALL role-playing games could have dialogue like Fallout: New Vegas as an example where there is a large plethora of things to say at any given conversation ranging from optimistic, inquisitory, rude, forceful and downright sadistic. I thought that game's variety of options for the protagonist was superb.. however your character isn't voiced. It had that flexibility. Andromeda found a way to maximize dialogue options and variety of responses all while having a voiced protagonist. Some options weren't there that some people wanted, but I found it to be pretty good.
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R1Outcast
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That's what she said...
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by R1Outcast on Jun 20, 2017 21:14:46 GMT
Threads like this make me wonder what trolls did with their time before the internet existed...
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warrior
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I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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I don't like MP!
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Post by warrior on Jun 20, 2017 22:12:16 GMT
Why should the dichotomy of paragon/renegade or other similar systems be used as the default when it comes to roleplaying? The fact is that even if multiple dialogue "personalities" were possible, the distinctiveness makes them less cohesive when used in tandem because they stand out too much individually. There is less consistency if multiple dialogue styles are used. This reinforced sticking to one tone per run, even if there were no rewards. A baseline neutrality is actually arguably the best method to convey dialogue, as rather than focus on tone the dialogue focuses on intent.
As a result it's far easier to roleplay the character. Fortunately, there are many moments in the game where you can actually impose tone on the character. I quite liked the dialogue system in Andromeda as well. It let me roleplay Ryder in several different ways, and I wasn't forced or punished for choosing one dialogue option over the other and could switch between personality of lines. In the OT, which I loved the Paragon/Renegade system, I always played a Paragon Shepard, but there were times and situations where despite that, the Renegade response or interrupt was called for based on the personality of my own Shepard... however I always felt like the game was punishing me for doing that and that is absolutely silly. In Andromeda, my Ryder is sarcastic and a jokester. He likes to lighten a tense mood and doesn't take things overly seriously. However, he was in the Alliance and grew up with a strict father so he knows when to be serious. When I talked to my crew or most people, I used sarcastic or emotional dialogue choices. When I spoke with Tann in the beginning, when I met the Angara, talking to Archon or in other scenarios, I was very professional and serious. I was never penalized in game because of that switch in personality, which is how it always should be. I also realize having a voiced protagonist puts limitations on what the dialogue system can be and I think Andromeda found a fantastic balance for that. Honestly, I'd love if ALL role-playing games could have dialogue like Fallout: New Vegas as an example where there is a large plethora of things to say at any given conversation ranging from optimistic, inquisitory, rude, forceful and downright sadistic. I thought that game's variety of options for the protagonist was superb.. however your character isn't voiced. It had that flexibility. Andromeda found a way to maximize dialogue options and variety of responses all while having a voiced protagonist. Some options weren't there that some people wanted, but I found it to be pretty good. FO NV has great dialogue choices, agreed -- wish we had a bit more variety in these new VA RPGs. Like, just one more option that is a little meaner or rude or whatever. Doesn't have to be sadistic. I also recommend using the casual/sarcastic options in "professional" situations bc some of those were I think the best Ryder sasses a bit.
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sjsharp2010
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 20, 2017 22:21:29 GMT
Why should the dichotomy of paragon/renegade or other similar systems be used as the default when it comes to roleplaying? The fact is that even if multiple dialogue "personalities" were possible, the distinctiveness makes them less cohesive when used in tandem because they stand out too much individually. There is less consistency if multiple dialogue styles are used. This reinforced sticking to one tone per run, even if there were no rewards. A baseline neutrality is actually arguably the best method to convey dialogue, as rather than focus on tone the dialogue focuses on intent.
As a result it's far easier to roleplay the character. Fortunately, there are many moments in the game where you can actually impose tone on the character. I quite liked the dialogue system in Andromeda as well. It let me roleplay Ryder in several different ways, and I wasn't forced or punished for choosing one dialogue option over the other and could switch between personality of lines. In the OT, which I loved the Paragon/Renegade system, I always played a Paragon Shepard, but there were times and situations where despite that, the Renegade response or interrupt was called for based on the personality of my own Shepard... however I always felt like the game was punishing me for doing that and that is absolutely silly. In Andromeda, my Ryder is sarcastic and a jokester. He likes to lighten a tense mood and doesn't take things overly seriously. However, he was in the Alliance and grew up with a strict father so he knows when to be serious. When I talked to my crew or most people, I used sarcastic or emotional dialogue choices. When I spoke with Tann in the beginning, when I met the Angara, talking to Archon or in other scenarios, I was very professional and serious. I was never penalized in game because of that switch in personality, which is how it always should be.
I also realize having a voiced protagonist puts limitations on what the dialogue system can be and I think Andromeda found a fantastic balance for that. Honestly, I'd love if ALL role-playing games could have dialogue like Fallout: New Vegas as an example where there is a large plethora of things to say at any given conversation ranging from optimistic, inquisitory, rude, forceful and downright sadistic. I thought that game's variety of options for the protagonist was superb.. however your character isn't voiced. It had that flexibility. Andromeda found a way to maximize dialogue options and variety of responses all while having a voiced protagonist. Some options weren't there that some people wanted, but I found it to be pretty good. Yeah both my Sara's have been lik ethat as well when chliling out with her crew she likes to keep the mood light and friendly but in the heat of battle and dealing with potential threats then she goes into serious mode
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 20, 2017 22:22:37 GMT
Threads like this make me wonder what trolls did with their time before the internet existed... Spending their time cutting people off in traffic.
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henkiedepost
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by henkiedepost on Jun 20, 2017 22:31:30 GMT
Threads like this make me wonder what trolls did with their time before the internet existed... Spending their time cutting people off in traffic. Then there are a lot of people without access to internet in The Netherlands.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
N7
GIF Addict
Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Workin' so hard, to make it easy.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 20, 2017 22:33:54 GMT
Spending their time cutting people off in traffic. Then there are a lot of people without access to internet in The Netherlands. Hehe, they have no problem doing both. :sure:
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Post by abaris on Jun 20, 2017 23:16:14 GMT
FO NV has great dialogue choices, agreed -- wish we had a bit more variety in these new VA RPGs. Like, just one more option that is a little meaner or rude or whatever. Doesn't have to be sadistic. In any case, FNV wasn't Bethesda but Obsidian. And it's arguably the best Fallout game. Obsidian are great storytellers. The only thing Bioware usually has over them are the comanions and their interactions.
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Arcian
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Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Jun 24, 2017 19:57:47 GMT
There are only so many words you can use to describe all the properties of a turd. Kind of like your posts Aw, sounds like someone is mad.
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Garo
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Garo on Jun 24, 2017 20:41:31 GMT
For a Mass Effect forum dedicated to fans, that is a lot of "yes" I'm seeing :^).
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jun 24, 2017 22:35:23 GMT
I just finished beating the game for the second time. While I have started multiple play throughs (most were back in March and April) this is the second time I ran through the whole thing. About 3 weeks ago I called this game a disappointment boy was I wrong. That second play through gave me perspective and now I realize I was just pining for the trilogy instead of letting MEA be it's own thing. I am glad I took a break from it in April and I am glad I came back to it. Sometimes that break can bring in new perspective. MEA is really good and I stand by the statement that this game is a victim of the ridiculous over the top hate culture of the internet. So the conclusion is that MEA is a very good game that is completely underappreciated and that humanity in 2017 sucks balls.
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