Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 2, 2017 15:24:10 GMT
I was roped into playing The Division during its last free weekend and it did not grab me, but its character creator had me interested and was wondering what others would think. Would you be willing to accept a more basic style of character creator if it avoided the animation issues that were happening with Ryder so BioWare could tailor the animations during the speaking parts closer to each character.
What I saw would be a few basic head shapes and then you could customize that with different hair and color/eye color/scars/tattoos/piercings/etc. It would be just more restrictive when it comes to the parts of the face that move so there would be a smaller array of variables to consider when trying to animated the characters. So things like eye placement or mouth size wouldn't be available to customize.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 15:45:24 GMT
I was roped into playing The Division during its last free weekend and it did not grab me, but its character creator had me interested and was wondering what others would think. Would you be willing to accept a more basic style of character creator if it avoided the animation issues that were happening with Ryder so BioWare could tailor the animations during the speaking parts closer to each character. What I saw would be a few basic head shapes and then you could customize that with different hair and color/eye color/scars/tattoos/piercings/etc. It would be just more restrictive when it comes to the parts of the face that move so there would be a smaller array of variables to consider when trying to animated the characters. So things like eye placement or mouth size wouldn't be available to customize. No. I really like what I get in Andromeda, and would like it augmented by adding skin retexturing and brow overlays and, if possible, few more heads and hairstyles to chose from. Skin retexturing is my biggest issue.
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Post by evhgear on Jun 2, 2017 15:50:21 GMT
A better character creator is needed AND better facial animations are also needed.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 2, 2017 15:58:45 GMT
A better character creator is needed AND better facial animations are also needed. I just cannot see BioWare being able to do both at the same time. I can't think of a recent game that can do both well either to even think it is possible.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 2, 2017 16:01:54 GMT
I'm sort of indifferent. I've never been great at CC so I guess the more basic stuff would work well enough for me. OTOH, I have done some changes that I loved on those rare occasions when I'm willing to take the time. If I think of DAO, I seem to recall that the options were more limited and I don't remember ever being especially pleased with how my Warden looked.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 2, 2017 16:11:46 GMT
A better character creator is needed AND better facial animations are also needed. I just cannot see BioWare being able to do both at the same time. I can't think of a recent game that can do both well either to even think it is possible. Fallout 4 immediately comes to mind as a game with a far more robust CC than MEA that managed to create facial animations on par or even superior to MEA. And this is for a game where dialogue and cinematic presentation is at best a secondary concern where as for BW games it would/should be one of the main focuses of development. Technologically it is not only possible, but well within reason for a game that makes it a priority. Now, whether or not Bioware has the skill and the desire to do both at the same time is indeed another question altogether.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 2, 2017 16:13:50 GMT
I just cannot see BioWare being able to do both at the same time. I can't think of a recent game that can do both well either to even think it is possible. Fallout 4 immediately comes to mind as a game with a far more robust CC than MEA that managed to create facial animations on par or even superior to MEA. And this is for a game where dialogue and cinematic presentation is at best a secondary concern where as for BW games it would/should be one of the main focuses of development. Technologically it is not only possible, but well within reason for a game that makes it a priority. Now, whether or not Bioware has the skill and the desire to do both at the same time is indeed another question altogether. I had the exact same problems with Fallout 4 that I did with Andromeda, for both didn't look like you were having a conversation it was just random movements.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jun 2, 2017 16:24:45 GMT
A better character creator is needed AND better facial animations are also needed. I just cannot see BioWare being able to do both at the same time. I can't think of a recent game that can do both well either to even think it is possible. you can't have played DAI then as DAI's was pretty good yes the hairstyles were weak but the rest of the CC was close to perfect. I just think a lot of peop;le were expecting something similar from MEA but with better hair. We got the better hair in my opinion but I do feel that in places that the rest of it does somewhat lack. What I think we needed was the newer hair but the older type of CC. Maybe with the improvements they've promised we'll get that but we'll only find out in time.
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Post by R'Shara on Jun 2, 2017 16:35:10 GMT
No. Bioware was able to do it just fine in previous installments. Default Ryder had the same problems as any custom Ryder, so the CC isn't the problem. Also, what you're describing is basically what we have right now lol.
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Post by steppinrazor on Jun 2, 2017 16:45:18 GMT
Heeeellllll no.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 17:12:04 GMT
I like the resulting characters and diversity of looks in Andromeda cc more than the FO4 and Inquisition one. I was unable to create an attractive character in FO4 and Inquisition. No problems in Andromeda with multiple ones, males and females. Skin, though, ouch, the skin...
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Post by zan on Jun 2, 2017 17:12:51 GMT
Think we need more things in CC, not less. I've tried commenting the most common things I've seen requested for. Also there is no point in removing already existing content.
Re-skins: This really should be in place and it can't be difficult to implement as it will not affect the gameplay at all Brow overlays: Also not difficult and would look much better New hairs: Depends. I'd love a few more shoulder length or longer hairs, but I understand that this will involve new meshes which will have to have physics attached to them. Still they would not affect much past some up-front time investment into actual mesh creation New heads: Difficult - not only will it involve the creation of the new head, it will also need to have all the animations checked for it. MEA is a clusterfuck when it comes to facial animations (although much smaller than on release), so not sure this'll happen.
Few other things: Additional sliders: Might run into a problem of face running into severe animation problems Wider slider values: Same as above - massive deformations could mess up the animations More realistic/better hair colors: Can we PLEASE get better/more realistic blonde shades? Currently most are just awful. Should not be difficult. Highlights for hair: Should also not be too difficult.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 2, 2017 18:00:00 GMT
I like the resulting characters and diversity of looks in Andromeda cc more than the FO4 and Inquisition one. I was unable to create an attractive character in FO4 and Inquisition. No problems in Andromeda with multiple ones, males and females. Skin, though, ouch, the skin... I know right, these Sara presets are so gorgi... Especially compared to those dog ugly FO4 women... Poor things...
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Post by R'Shara on Jun 2, 2017 18:02:34 GMT
I like the resulting characters and diversity of looks in Andromeda cc more than the FO4 and Inquisition one. I was unable to create an attractive character in FO4 and Inquisition. No problems in Andromeda with multiple ones, males and females. Skin, though, ouch, the skin... I know right, these Sara presets are so gorgi... Especially compared to those dog ugly FO4 women... Poor things... They all have the exact same dead-eye stare. Creeeeeeeeeepy.
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Post by Sondergaard on Jun 2, 2017 18:04:29 GMT
My Sara Ryder looked fine. Default Sara has cartoonishly exaggerated features that look ridiculous when animated. Why they thought that was a good idea and how it made it into the released version is just another question for my very long list.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 18:07:13 GMT
I like the resulting characters and diversity of looks in Andromeda cc more than the FO4 and Inquisition one. I was unable to create an attractive character in FO4 and Inquisition. No problems in Andromeda with multiple ones, males and females. Skin, though, ouch, the skin... I know right, these Sara presets are so gorgi... Especially compared to those dog ugly FO4 women... Poor things... You showing the one modded face you like compared to the raw presets snapshot in ME:A. You snapshot FO4 from creator, and what you get is not flattering. The Internet is full of images where people are making fun of it.
You yourself said in another thread you cannot create anything you like in FO4 creator without mod, straight out.
That's my character after 40 min of efforts in FO4, unmoded, as is:
Here is one of mine in Andromeda, with 10 min of tweaking, no mods and no patches, like Day 3 or something:
And here is Andromeda CC, modded and patched to 1.06:
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 2, 2017 18:16:25 GMT
You yourself said in another thread you cannot create anything you like in FO4 creator without mod, straight out. No, I said I couldn't make a face that gorgeous. I was able to make a character I was rather pleased with in FO4 after playing with the CC for a while. No amount of messing with MEA's CC is going to be good enough. The customization features are too limited and the base head shapes too abnormal looking. *side note* I still think you intentionally made an ugly character just to take a screenshot of. The FO4 CC is cumbersome, yes, but you have to try to make a character look like that. None of the presets in FO4 start out with features that out of proportion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 18:26:46 GMT
You yourself said in another thread you cannot create anything you like in FO4 creator without mod, straight out. No, I said I couldn't make a face that gorgeous. I was able to make a character I was rather pleased with in FO4 after playing with the CC for a while. No amount of messing with MEA's CC is going to be good enough. The customization features are too limited and the base head shapes too abnormal looking. *side note* I still think you intentionally made an ugly character just to take a screenshot of. The FO4 CC is cumbersome, yes, but you have to try to make a character look like that. None of the presets in FO4 start out with features that out of proportion.I absolutely did not try the FO4 character look ugly. I did not know that the game will cause me to feel motion sick, so I really wanted a cool looking lady. The changes I made to that preset were really few. The mouth in particular was a nightmare, because all of those shapes just slapped on top of that face and looked terrible. The character was heavily made-up, so wiping it off was really hard and getting anything near natural look I prefer was hard. Also, black and Asian faces were not inspiring (I don't mean to offend anyone).
On the other hand you did not specify that the character you have posted was a mod that uses skin textures and hair that is not available in the vanilla game, as well as the mouse shape.
I like the modded head you have posted, but Andromeda looks far better to me & it is far easier to achieve. Particularly if/when the CC adds the options I was using on my last preset with the mods, i.e to change the skin texture and brows.
And, obviously, add a few heads more to your liking, with perfect features.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 2, 2017 18:33:15 GMT
In any case we are off topic here with a discussion that we already hashed out.
As far as being able to make a game with a robust CC and good animations simultaneously goes there is no technical or technological reason that can't happen. It is up to the developer to care about making that happen.
In BW's case they launched with not only a bad CC but simultaneously with bad animations. As it stands I rather doubt BW could do both, but that doesn't mean other developers can't.
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Sanunes
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 2, 2017 18:34:01 GMT
I just want to clarify what I am referring to for there seems to be a slight change of focus and its probably my fault.
I don't have a problem with the character creator itself, my problem is after you create your character and the functions try to animate the face during conversations. None of my custom Ryders that I have been happy with have been able to have a conversation where I was happy with how the face looked while talking, I find the defaults work much better in that regard.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Jun 2, 2017 18:48:48 GMT
I just want to clarify what I am referring to for there seems to be a slight change of focus and its probably my fault. I don't have a problem with the character creator itself, my problem is after you create your character and the functions try to animate the face during conversations. None of my custom Ryders that I have been happy with have been able to have a conversation where I was happy with how the face looked while talking, I find the defaults work much better in that regard. I don't see why default would be better, they smirk at everything they possibly can, kind of why I avoided using a default sera.
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Post by R'Shara on Jun 2, 2017 18:58:12 GMT
The default really isn't any better from what I've been able to tell. I mean, the worst of the animation glitches were shown with the default Ryder.
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Post by LogicGunn on Jun 2, 2017 19:21:42 GMT
Andromeda's facial animations are only vaguely related to the complexity of the CC. DAI manages to be infinitely more complex and yet animation issues are at a minimum. It's not a zero sum. I can live with clipping etc. DAI's animation issues have proven to be easily fixed with a little extra attention.
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Post by DarkBeaver on Jun 2, 2017 19:24:48 GMT
This is an example of why many people are upset about the game. Its trying to be more of a space shooter, with emphasis on multiplayer mode. For those people who enjoy that style, CC is not a big deal. Unfortunately, Bioware and Mass Effect is built on a foundation of great story and characters, and for people who enjoy that, (a large segment of the fanbase), a good CC is very important.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2017 19:34:12 GMT
I just want to clarify what I am referring to for there seems to be a slight change of focus and its probably my fault. I don't have a problem with the character creator itself, my problem is after you create your character and the functions try to animate the face during conversations. None of my custom Ryders that I have been happy with have been able to have a conversation where I was happy with how the face looked while talking, I find the defaults work much better in that regard. I would prefer more variety in cc to better animations if that was specifically the choice offered.
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