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Post by formerfiend on Sept 17, 2017 11:03:58 GMT
On the other hand, Rift Mage already takes Stonefist from the Primal School and Firestorm from the elemental school so his powers being about lifting spells from old schools isn't out of no where.
As for your theory as to exactly what he's doing... I really don't want to sound like an asshole when I say this but I kind of hate it. No, that's too strong. But I dislike it. And I'll tell you why; it's unnecessary. There's a simple solution. We don't need the extra step of "he's wiping out people's souls and his power is so intense that it leaves their bodies as nothing but stone" when there's already a spell that just turns people to stone. To me, that doesn't make it more interesting or more impressive or even more terrifying. It just takes me out of it and from a meta perspective I think, "wow, they are trying way too hard here".
I don't know. I just like it when people take the simple solution. Hawke & the Warden have gone missing? It must be some grand conspiracy! Nope, they just had other shit on their plate and their friends lied to cover them, and Cassandra sucks at interrogation. Hell, the entire plot of Inquisition is built on a simple mistake; Solas gave Corypheus the orb, and rather than having everything Corypheus did be part of a convoluted "just as planned" scheme on Solas' part, it turns out everything went to hell because Solus didn't know Corypheus could body surf.
So yeah, that's my opinion on the matter. I feel it doesn't need to be anything more than just him casting an established spell, and if it is more than that, I will be profoundly annoyed and disappointed before I cut his head off.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 17, 2017 12:00:56 GMT
With regard to Solas petrifying the Qunari, are we sure they are actually dead? Only there have been two previous instances of people being turned to stone permanently or semi-permanently but still having consciousness.
Eleni Zinovia was permanently turned to stone by her lover for predicting his downfall. She was still able to communicate but seemed forever trapped within the stone.
Then there are the three pirates of Isabella in Mark of the Assassin, who were turned to stone and could only be restored by Isabella with the aid of a special item that had to be constructed as part of the quest.
So it is possible that Solas was using the same magic, the only difference being that maybe the only way they could be freed would be by Solas reversing the spell.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 12:12:11 GMT
On the other hand, Rift Mage already takes Stonefist from the Primal School and Firestorm from the elemental school so his powers being about lifting spells from old schools isn't out of no where. As for your theory as to exactly what he's doing... I really don't want to sound like an asshole when I say this but I kind of hate it. No, that's too strong. But I dislike it. And I'll tell you why; it's unnecessary. There's a simple solution. We don't need the extra step of "he's wiping out people's souls and his power is so intense that it leaves their bodies as nothing but stone" when there's already a spell that just turns people to stone. To me, that doesn't make it more interesting or more impressive or even more terrifying. It just takes me out of it and from a meta perspective I think, "wow, they are trying way too hard here". Rift Mage Stonefist and Stonefist from DAO aren't the same spell. Primal magic manipulates the elements - Rift Mages summons boulder made from raw Fade itself. Two similar looking things don't necessarily have to be the same, which was my point somewhere earlier. Also, this really isn't about it being "more terrifying", nor what I was really aiming at in the first place - more like "more informative on how the world is built". Just because there are simple solutions to some problems, doesn't mean that it's such for all. In fact, Solas's mistake uncovered a multi-pronged grand scheme of Corypheus, who would've conquered South without orb, because he already had Templars, Wardens and courting mages at a time the Conclave explosion took place. We spend pretty much the whole of Inquisition unraveling that plan. Nevermind that his own involvement is the 2nd bottom of the whole thing - and who knows how many other bottoms are underneath, lol. But we aren't really talking about 'solutions', but more about things relevant on meta-level rather than on in-universe level. And Bioware adores all its little hints if now downright trolling us with hints and clues. Remember all the wolves... well... everywhere? They could've been easily dismissed as just wolves, especially that the game established reasons to explain the presence of wolf statues on territories of the Dales, for example. But no. Turns out that it was deliberate and wolves were everywhere because our companion is the Dread Wolf. Same with Solas's necklace. Pure hint-trolling. And they're quite open about this, already admitting that they're doing this stuff on purpose, even revealing things people might have easily missed from time to time: like how there are some scenes from meeting with Solas in Trespasser that deliberately mimic the post-epilogue scene with Solas and Flemythal for some reason. That, of course, doesn't mean that I advocate to see double or triple-meanings absolutely everywhere. But it's worth to pay attention to such stuff, at least if someone enjoys picking lore and story apart, like I do.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 12:20:17 GMT
With regard to Solas petrifying the Qunari, are we sure they are actually dead? Only there have been two previous instances of people being turned to stone permanently or semi-permanently but still having consciousness. Eleni Zinovia was permanently turned to stone by her lover for predicting his downfall. She was still able to communicate but seemed forever trapped within the stone. Then there are the three pirates of Isabella in Mark of the Assassin, who were turned to stone and could only be restored by Isabella with the aid of a special item that had to be constructed as part of the quest. So it is possible that Solas was using the same magic, the only difference being that maybe the only way they could be freed would be by Solas reversing the spell. I have doubts about that. Eleni Zinovia was turned to stone as a form of cruel punishment, the pirates were cursed by particularly nasty maleficar. And whatever people think about Solas, cruelty just doesn't seem to be part of his repertoire. Plus, none of the statues we encounter can talk.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 17, 2017 12:40:11 GMT
He may not be cruel but the Qunari really "offend" him. It is just possible that he left them to reflect on what a free, unbound mage is capable of. After all, he was prepared to consign all the Evanuris to everlasting torment in the Void (or wherever he sent them) which seems pretty nasty to me. They may well have deserved it but it still is not a pleasant fate.
Did you ever see the Dr Who episode where he permanently trapped his enemies in, I seem to recall, variously a mirror and as scarecrows? He tried to avoid taking action against them by concealing himself and living as an ordinary human. At the end someone reflects (can't remember who) that it seemed at first as though he was afraid of them but in fact he was trying to spare them the judgement of the Timelord.
I often think the Solas is very much like that. So he did his best to avoid taking action against the Qunari and even says to the Viddasala "be gone and trouble me no more" but when she persists he petrifies her. Whether it was fatal or not is irrelevant to whether he should be considered cruel. If petrifying them results in a conscious imprisonment in stone then that is just a consequence of his retaliation against them. It is just possible that he didn't want to permanently kill them, which is why he used that particular spell.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 13:09:05 GMT
He may not be cruel but the Qunari really "offend" him. It is just possible that he left them to reflect on what a free, unbound mage is capable of. After all, he was prepared to consign all the Evanuris to everlasting torment in the Void (or wherever he sent them) which seems pretty nasty to me. They may well have deserved it but it still is not a pleasant fate. Did you ever see the Dr Who episode where he permanently trapped his enemies in, I seem to recall, variously a mirror and as scarecrows? He tried to avoid taking action against them by concealing himself and living as an ordinary human. At the end someone reflects (can't remember who) that it seemed at first as though he was afraid of them but in fact he was trying to spare them the judgement of the Timelord. I often think the Solas is very much like that. So he did his best to avoid taking action against the Qunari and even says to the Viddasala "be gone and trouble me no more" but when she persists he petrifies her. Whether it was fatal or not is irrelevant to whether he should be considered cruel. If petrifying them results in a conscious imprisonment in stone then that is just a consequence of his retaliation against them. It is just possible that he didn't want to permanently kill them, which is why he used that particular spell. I have doubts Solas would punish individual Qunari just because 'Qun offends him'. Punishing individuals like that just seems petty and pettiness just ain't like Solas, world-ending plans notwithstanding. And comparing Evanuris to them is apples and oranges - Evanuris were specific individuals that were responsible for way more grave offenses than any individual Qunari could and that includes Viddasala who, as we've seen, he was willing to give a chance to slip away. Nevermind that he explained that even if he wanted to kill Evanuris, it just isn't so simple (as proven by Mythal), which is why he had to neutralize them by trapping them somewhere. Also - I have doubts that petrifying someone and leaving them to contemplate is really that effective. All the times we've seen people in DA trapped in stone was because was cruel punishment or curse, not mercy. There's even more of a question why Solas would do that - we don't really know his plans for the world, but they may yet end with the end of everyone so... what would be the point? Quick death seems more of a mercy and one that Solas doesn't shy away from, even if he's a pacifist at heart.
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Post by phoray on Sept 17, 2017 13:09:10 GMT
I figured he was just spamming Petrify. I also figured they took Petrify off the spell list for Inquisition so it would look more impressive when Solas cast it in a cutscene. To be fair, it's a slightly bigger wallop of a Petrify spell. Although it still remains a question whether he could do that with impunity, or whether it was a bit of magical sleight of hand that worked due to the context he found the Qunari in. Also...is it actually permanent
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Post by Solas on Sept 17, 2017 15:18:02 GMT
With regard to Solas petrifying the Qunari, are we sure they are actually dead? Only there have been two previous instances of people being turned to stone permanently or semi-permanently but still having consciousness. Eleni Zinovia was permanently turned to stone by her lover for predicting his downfall. She was still able to communicate but seemed forever trapped within the stone. Then there are the three pirates of Isabella in Mark of the Assassin, who were turned to stone and could only be restored by Isabella with the aid of a special item that had to be constructed as part of the quest. So it is possible that Solas was using the same magic, the only difference being that maybe the only way they could be freed would be by Solas reversing the spell. I vaguely also remember in Awakening some stone statues who claimed to be Avvar that were cursed by a magister, that we could talk to.
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Post by mattjamho on Sept 17, 2017 15:23:55 GMT
I wonder what Solas' true power is like? Something I desperately hope to discover. We already know he created the Veil (alone? did he have help?), and can turn people to stone with a thought. I can't wait to see more. I hope he didn't do it alone, rather some mass ritual with his followers. Or with powered up artifacts. It took a millennia for the orb to generate the power it did, and we know complex elven spells could take years to cast. I really don't like all powerful, untouchable beings in fiction. I mean, realistically, how do you fight someone who can turn you to stone in an instant? I'd hope Solas is an incredibley skilled and powerful mage, but nothing more.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 15:54:59 GMT
Something I desperately hope to discover. We already know he created the Veil (alone? did he have help?), and can turn people to stone with a thought. I can't wait to see more. I hope he didn't do it alone, rather some mass ritual with his followers. Or with powered up artifacts. It took a millennia for the orb to generate the power it did, and we know complex elven spells could take years to cast. I really don't like all powerful, untouchable beings in fiction. I mean, realistically, how do you fight someone who can turn you to stone in an instant? I'd hope Solas is an incredibley skilled and powerful mage, but nothing more. Well, if we ask him in Trespasser if he's a piece of an ancient being like Flemythal, he can answer that no he isn't and 'that's all he's ever been'... of course what that means for ancient elf is anybody's guess, but suggests that he probably ain't some PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER!!! wielder. And my other pet crackpot theory is that the Veil is basically mass illusion upheld by current belief of Thedosians in it and that yes, it's possible that it began as a ritual - although whatever that ritual was, its core was Solas and likely his orb and it bases on his power, considering that the formation of the Veil is heavily implied to have sapped his strength so badly that he was knocked out cold for millenia and woke up 'still weak' way too late to open his orb on his own... hence Cory.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 17, 2017 17:50:10 GMT
He may not be cruel but the Qunari really "offend" him. It is just possible that he left them to reflect on what a free, unbound mage is capable of. After all, he was prepared to consign all the Evanuris to everlasting torment in the Void (or wherever he sent them) which seems pretty nasty to me. They may well have deserved it but it still is not a pleasant fate. Did you ever see the Dr Who episode where he permanently trapped his enemies in, I seem to recall, variously a mirror and as scarecrows? He tried to avoid taking action against them by concealing himself and living as an ordinary human. At the end someone reflects (can't remember who) that it seemed at first as though he was afraid of them but in fact he was trying to spare them the judgement of the Timelord. I often think the Solas is very much like that. So he did his best to avoid taking action against the Qunari and even says to the Viddasala "be gone and trouble me no more" but when she persists he petrifies her. Whether it was fatal or not is irrelevant to whether he should be considered cruel. If petrifying them results in a conscious imprisonment in stone then that is just a consequence of his retaliation against them. It is just possible that he didn't want to permanently kill them, which is why he used that particular spell. I have doubts Solas would punish individual Qunari just because 'Qun offends him'. Punishing individuals like that just seems petty and pettiness just ain't like Solas, world-ending plans notwithstanding. And comparing Evanuris to them is apples and oranges - Evanuris were specific individuals that were responsible for way more grave offenses than any individual Qunari could and that includes Viddasala who, as we've seen, he was willing to give a chance to slip away. Nevermind that he explained that even if he wanted to kill Evanuris, it just isn't so simple (as proven by Mythal), which is why he had to neutralize them by trapping them somewhere. Also - I have doubts that petrifying someone and leaving them to contemplate is really that effective. All the times we've seen people in DA trapped in stone was because was cruel punishment or curse, not mercy. There's even more of a question why Solas would do that - we don't really know his plans for the world, but they may yet end with the end of everyone so... what would be the point? Quick death seems more of a mercy and one that Solas doesn't shy away from, even if he's a pacifist at heart. There are a lot of words that I would use to describe Solas. Conceited, arrogant, delusional, hypocritical, racist, self-righteous, and indigent among them, along with a slew of vulgar profanities and a few faint compliments - he has good taste in beverages if nothing else. But one word I would not use to describe Solas is "pacifist".
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 18:33:11 GMT
There are a lot of words that I would use to describe Solas. Conceited, arrogant, delusional, hypocritical, racist, self-righteous, and indigent among them, along with a slew of vulgar profanities and a few faint compliments - he has good taste in beverages if nothing else. But one word I would not use to describe Solas is "pacifist". There are many times in the game where he expresses views or presents stances that put him pretty squarely on pacifist side. Besides - I did say 'pacifist at heart'. Solas has lived too long and has been through too much crap to be able to live his life in accordance to his moral compass or his wants. That one of main things that is making him a tragic character. From the descriptions you'll probably remain unconvinced by this. That is fine, I'm not sure I want to go into arguing about Solas's character at the moment, given that I know how quickly it can hijack the thread.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 17, 2017 18:56:21 GMT
^^ No major character in Inquisition is a pacifist. Not Josephine and definitely not Solas. I like the guy, but Solas is "The ends justify the means" made manifest.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2017 19:02:42 GMT
^^ No major character in Inquisition is a pacifist. Not Josephine and definitely not Solas. I like the guy, but Solas is "The ends justify the means" made manifest. How is Josephine not a pacifist? There is a whole scene and multiple pieces of dialogue where she explicitly expresses this.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 19:14:37 GMT
^^ No major character in Inquisition is a pacifist. Not Josephine and definitely not Solas. I like the guy, but Solas is "The ends justify the means" made manifest. Oh yes, the 'ends justify means' guy who goes out of his way to make his life and plans more difficult and saves the Inquisition (even Inquisitor he dislikes, because 'their death will cause more bloodshed and that is unnecessary') and the whole of South from sneaky invasion by the Qunari... And being a pacifist doesn't mean that someone never commits violence ever - even Gandhi wasn't like that and recognized that there are times where violence may have to come into picture. One can detest war and love peace and non-violent means of solving conflict and still be forced by circumstances or necessity to lead a violent rebellion and so on. Life has a tendency to make things complicated like that.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 17, 2017 19:17:22 GMT
^^ No major character in Inquisition is a pacifist. Not Josephine and definitely not Solas. I like the guy, but Solas is "The ends justify the means" made manifest. How is Josephine not a pacifist? There is a whole scene and multiple pieces of dialogue where she explicitly expresses this. Haha. I knew you were going to defend her. The term pacifism is "the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means." Josephine definitely doesn't like violence or war but she does admit that it can be justifiable, which is why she joins the Inquisition and why she tolerates Leliana and the Inquisitor committing acts of violence and even capital punishment. She'll complain about it, but she'll accept people's justifications a lot of the time.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 19:21:30 GMT
How is Josephine not a pacifist? There is a whole scene and multiple pieces of dialogue where she explicitly expresses this. Haha. I knew you were going to defend her. The term pacifism is "the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means." Josephine definitely doesn't like violence or war but she does admit that it can be justifiable, which is why she joins the Inquisition and why she tolerates Leliana and the Inquisitor committing acts of violence and even capital punishment. She'll complain about it, but she'll accept people's justifications a lot of the time. You're quoting absolute pacifism - that is one of many stances under pacifist umbrella.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 17, 2017 19:25:51 GMT
^^ No major character in Inquisition is a pacifist. Not Josephine and definitely not Solas. I like the guy, but Solas is "The ends justify the means" made manifest. Oh yes, the 'ends justify means' guy who goes out of his way to make his life and plans more difficult and saves the Inquisition (even Inquisitor he dislikes, because 'their death will cause more bloodshed and that is unnecessary') and the whole of South from sneaky invasion by the Qunari... And being a pacifist doesn't mean that someone never commits violence ever - even Gandhi wasn't like that and recognized that there are times where violence may have to come into picture. One can detest war and love peace and non-violent means of solving conflict and still be forced by circumstances or necessity to lead a violent rebellion and so on. Life has a tendency to make things complicated like that. That still doesn't absolve him still being committed to destroying the world to resurrect the ancient elves. He's conflicted about it, sure, but he's still going ahead with it and justifying his genocidal actions, which seems really ends justify the means to me. You can definitely detest war and violence and still engage in it to protect yourself or others. You're just not technically a pacifist anymore if you do, but that's ok. Like you said, being a pacifist is kind of a privilege that life can deny you.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 17, 2017 19:32:09 GMT
Haha. I knew you were going to defend her. The term pacifism is "the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means." Josephine definitely doesn't like violence or war but she does admit that it can be justifiable, which is why she joins the Inquisition and why she tolerates Leliana and the Inquisitor committing acts of violence and even capital punishment. She'll complain about it, but she'll accept people's justifications a lot of the time. You're quoting absolute pacifism - that is one of many stances under pacifist umbrella. Oh well, if were using the conditional or selective definition of pacifism than almost everyone in the Inquisition cast is a pacifist, which is kind of a weird thought given how violent so many of them are.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 17, 2017 19:38:11 GMT
I wouldn't argue against calling Josephine a pacifist. She does try a convoluted and complicated plan of diplomacy to get an assassination contract on her canceled rather than use violence to defend herself from a guild of hired murderers. I'd be willing to call people far less extreme in their dedication to non-violence than that pacifists.
Solas, on the other hand, lead a violent and bloody revolt, apparently based not on the widespread oppression caused by the regime he was fighting but because they murdered one woman he liked. He murders a group of mages in game out of revenge. His response to Vivienne for dealing with malificarum is "I'd kill them as I found them". And he's planning to commit the single greatest act of mass murder the world has ever seen.
Now, personally I don't hold the revenge killing of the mages against him and I find his plan for dealing with rogue, dangerous mages and abominations to be a perfectly reasonable and practical alternative to mass, preemptive imprisonment. And even Ghandi admitted that non-violent resistance only works when the government you're protesting at least wants to appear to be good and decent.
But even without the "plotting the total destruction of civilization" thing, your really do not get to... any of that and get called a pacifist. Not having violence as your go-to means to solve every single problem does not qualify one for the title of pacifist. Solas is perfectly willing to use violence as a first resort to solve a problem or even to simply lash out and express his emotions through violent action; he never expresses any shame or regret about doing so, either; he feels entirely justified in his violence.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2017 19:39:56 GMT
How is Josephine not a pacifist? There is a whole scene and multiple pieces of dialogue where she explicitly expresses this. Haha. I knew you were going to defend her. The term pacifism is "the belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means." Josephine definitely doesn't like violence or war but she does admit that it can be justifiable, which is why she joins the Inquisition and why she tolerates Leliana and the Inquisitor committing acts of violence and even capital punishment. She'll complain about it, but she'll accept people's justifications a lot of the time. There are multiple kinds of pacifists with pacifism having a spectrum of views. In Josephine's case, she is opposed to war and violence and thinks things can be resolved peacefully, devoting her life to that belief and that being the fueling reason for her becoming an ambassador, but in the world she lives in she understands that others may not feel the same and accepts that as well as knowing in a few rare cases there is no other option, like facing things like the Darkspawn or Corypheus. As for joining the Inquisition, she joins for the exact opposite reason that what you say. She joins to be their ambassador and emissary so the Inquisition has a way to solve things without violence, noting the challenge but that being something that interests her further. It's also part of why Leliana selected Josephine, because having someone skilled in non-violence as well as those skilled in violence gives the Inquisition more options and a higher chance of success.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 19:40:59 GMT
Oh yes, the 'ends justify means' guy who goes out of his way to make his life and plans more difficult and saves the Inquisition (even Inquisitor he dislikes, because 'their death will cause more bloodshed and that is unnecessary') and the whole of South from sneaky invasion by the Qunari... And being a pacifist doesn't mean that someone never commits violence ever - even Gandhi wasn't like that and recognized that there are times where violence may have to come into picture. One can detest war and love peace and non-violent means of solving conflict and still be forced by circumstances or necessity to lead a violent rebellion and so on. Life has a tendency to make things complicated like that. That still doesn't absolve him still being committed to destroying the world to resurrect the ancient elves. He's conflicted about it, sure, but he's still going ahead with it and justifying his genocidal actions, which seems really ends justify the means to me. You can definitely detest war and violence and still engage in it to protect yourself or others. You're just not technically a pacifist anymore if you do, but that's ok. Like you said, being a pacifist is kind of a privilege that life can deny you. We don't really know whether 'he's committed to destroying the world to resurrect ancient elves', just like we don't know whether such or similar motive is the only one. The last time he destroyed the world, he's also saved it from some major a-holes with plans to ruin the world even worse. He also does say to redeeming Inquisitor that he will treasure the chance to be wrong about any potential world destruction and made an effort to save Inquisitor and their organization and enables them to attempt and stop him - if he was really an 'ends justify the means', he'd do zilch to stop the Qunari or just let the Anchor kill Inky. In fact it would require zero effort put from him. So he's not just conflicted, he's actively searching for ways to sole this in less violent matters - he doesn't seem to see the solution... but that's what he saved Inky for.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2017 19:43:08 GMT
I wouldn't argue against calling Josephine a pacifist. She does try a convoluted and complicated plan of diplomacy to get an assassination contract on her canceled rather than use violence to defend herself from a guild of hired murderers. I'd be willing to call people far less extreme in their dedication to non-violence than that pacifists. Exactly. She is against violence even when it comes to defending herself. Actually especially that because it was when she was defending herself she accidentally killed someone which was the catalyst for her desire to solve things peacefully. Hence why after that plot is dealt with she tells the Inquisitor that story.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 19:53:35 GMT
I wouldn't argue against calling Josephine a pacifist. She does try a convoluted and complicated plan of diplomacy to get an assassination contract on her canceled rather than use violence to defend herself from a guild of hired murderers. I'd be willing to call people far less extreme in their dedication to non-violence than that pacifists. Solas, on the other hand, lead a violent and bloody revolt, apparently based not on the widespread oppression caused by the regime he was fighting but because they murdered one woman he liked. Mythal was killed DURING rebellion, not before it. Mythal's death was the reason he's created the Veil, not started the rebellion - and even then the reason wasn't 'they killed someone I liked!', but because it'd seem that without Mythal's voice of reason the Evanuris were unstoppable and about to do something horrid. Well there you go. No, he doesn't. This is exactly why he underlines, both in main game and Trespasser, that he will suffer terribly for his actions. He fully expects to be punished and he seems to want to find better solution to his problem - which is why he saved Inquisition from Qunari in the first place. It's also entirely unfair to say that Solas lashes out and uses violence as first resort - he just witnessed the death of his oldest and probably one of last friends he's lost after millenia of experiencing what could only be loss and sacrifice of everything he's had. He's at the end of his rope, not the start of it. And... you must've not played Trespasser that you say that he never expresses shame or regret? At least quarter of it is Solas expressing shame and regret
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2017 19:56:29 GMT
This link literally states that there are different types of pacifism "but they all include the idea that war and violence are unjustifiable". And...? Unjustifiable doesn't mean avoidable.
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